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I have to go to Leeds and possibly Manchester way for meetings wed/thurs this week. I have a mitsubishi outlander on the factory fit toyo's (summers I guess)with 10k on them or the wife has an astra on winters.
With the proviso that that all our forecast providers generally predict doomsday and we actually then get just normal winter weather....but just in case what would you take. ps it's not forecast snow at home before someone shouts you heartless beast..
I'm thinking that whilst the mitsu will get going ok turning and braking may not be as good as the astra...which was phenominal 2 winters ago coming back from oop north in a few inches of snow.
Take the Astra
Braking is significantly better as well
I'd probably take the astra. What tyres exactly are on the mitsi though as my mates landrover has m+s ones on anyway
the astra...which was phenominal 2 winters ago coming back from oop north in a few inches of snow.
Answered it yourself surely?
It may be worth checking the wear on the winter tyres, whilst still better than summer tyres in the cold down to the 1.6mm wear limit, if below 4mm their performance on snow drops off significantly
Astra, hands down. It doesn't if you have a 10-wheel-drive, if the tyres are not made for the conditions and have no grip, you won't get through the snow and ice.
Astra.
If not for the pleasure of passing all the go anywhere 4x4s in a 'normal' car 🙂
Answered it yourself surely?
Yes but my car has a decent stereo and heated seats for 8 hours of driving over two days
Just thought it may be a myth about 4x4s being poop in the snow on summers.
Pretty certain they're summers on the mitsubishi and I'll check the depth on the winters. Ta
Yes but my car has a decent stereo and heated seats for 8 hours of driving over two daysJust thought it may be a myth about 4x4s being poop in the snow on summers.
Pretty certain they're summers on the mitsubishi and I'll check the depth on the winters. Ta"
Friend in rear wheel drive Merc overtook Ranger Rover sat spinning in snow in the alps. Guess which car had the winter tyres.
Me in fully loaded Ford Transit, overtook (ok, crawled past at a sensible speed) a Porche Cayenne struggling to maintain 5mph on a flat road (and going sideways 🙂 ) I'd just driven up a fairly steep hill on normal tyres and then scared myself when I noticed all the holes in someones fence where the cars coming down hadn't made it!
Leave the astra for wifey, a real man could drive th 4x4 and make progress. 😆
pedladJust thought it may be a myth about 4x4s being poop in the snow on summers.
It is. A few winters ago my Legacy on summer tyres was sensational in several inches of snow. Never struggled for grip, passed everything. I couldn't really discern much difference between the Legacy and my Hilux which was on BF Goodrich AT's. If the snow gets really deep though, a 4x4 with increased ground clearance will easily go where cars will not.
The random factor here is the driver. If you can't drive in snow, no amount of technology will help you.
Astra.
It's not even close.
The trouble with taking the Astra is that you'll have to drive an Astra. Regardless of tyres, I'd take the Mitsubishi. Failing that, I'd walk.
Train
Check your tyres on the Mitsi, my Outlander came with all season tyres and I've never struggled in some pretty significant snow. That said I've never driven on full on winter tyres.
It is. A few winters ago my Legacy on summer tyres was sensational in several inches of snow. Never struggled for grip, passed everything. I couldn't really discern much difference between the Legacy and my Hilux which was on BF Goodrich AT's.The random factor here is the driver. If you can't drive in snow, no amount of technology will help you.
BFG AT's aren't winter/snow tyres you know
It's a moot point if a couple of cars/trucks get into trouble on any point of your journey then you will be stuck no matter what you are driving.
(Speaks from bitter experience)
Leave the astra for wifey, a real man could drive th 4x4 and make progress.
Don't worry I'm a driving God....obviously
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTRBFG AT's aren't winter/snow tyres you know
They work very well in the snow.
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More than good enough to negate the need for snow tyres on a 4x4 unless you live in some alpine winter wonderland.
Porche Cayenne struggling to maintain 5mph on a flat road
I've seen this with someone in a Range Rover going sideways. When he stopped he said he didn't know whats up as its a 4x4, I pointed out his low profile tyres weren't really made for the snow.
My L200 has BFG AT's and never struggled in snow and do a pretty good job off road unless it's really boggy or clay. But they are ALL TERRAIN meaning they are okay at a bit of everything but not great at any one thing.
My 4x4 (summer tyres) is hopeless in our marginal 'winter conditions', mainly because it's rwd and you can't use the 4x4 unless it's proper slippy on the ground (slip dif or whatever it's called?). It's just not worth chancing knackering it unless the conditions are consistently bad, not just patchy, so you have to drive like everyone else with very poor rwd. Add that to the fact that tyres play the main role, it's a no brainer really. On the odd occasions I have been able to use 4x4 on snow covered roads, it's been fine, but the summer tyres always caused me to still drive with care and I'm not convinced I was all that much better off than my old Astra with it's heavy diesel engine on fwd and summer tyres.
Got back from the Alps on Saturday - I took a 4x4 on the standard M&S tyres, friend was in a BMW on winter tyres. The 4x4 got up the slope to the chalet without any issues the BMW on winters couldn't get anywhere near.
Obviously there is no doubt that winter tyres are the most suitable for the time of year but different conditions/circumstances might favour a 4x4 on m&s tyres - I'd be taking the most comfortable car for the journey, if the snow does strike then you'll most likely end up in a queue caused by someone else and might as well be on a heated seat with a decent radio!
They work very well in the snow
Thinking of putting some of these on my Navara
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What are they 33"s?
I run winters on my Berlingo, but for a long journey through a busy area where if everyone else gets stuck, you'll get stuck, I'd tale the vehicle most comfortable to sleep in.
Fortunately for me I live in a rural area and can usually take a back road to avoid any blockage, but if you are surrounded by stuck unprepared numpties, you are going nowhere.
I can confirm that a Yaris on winter tyres is substantially less good (and less fun) on snow than a landy with pretty well any tyres I've owned fitted.
Doesn't mean a 2wd is useless, you'd still get where you needed to go unless its 2010-style snow.
Not a helpful answer but a lot of it depends on the "type" of snow and road conditions.
I'm in Canada and I have an Outlander and it has "proper" winter tyres - big lugs and a soft compound as well (Dunlop Grandtrek SJ6). It's fantastic in deep snow (by deep I'm talking 1 foot+ on the road). But on tarmac it rumbles and is generally unpleasant; also under hard braking you can feel the tyres squirming.
Sweamrs1 has an Impreeza and it's fitted with Michelin X-Ice. These are seriously good on packed snow and black ice; much better in fact than the Outlanders. In very heavy snow though they can get a bit bogged down and the lower ground clearance doesn't help but it's still a 4wd so in general she's okay.
Personally I'd take the Astra and try not to get bogged down in the snow if it starts getting deep.
If you can't drive in snow, no amount of technology will help you
Dunno how you can claim to know what you are talking about and then post a sentence like that!
What are they 33"s?
265/70/17's to replace my 255/60/18 road tyres/wheels
Cooper ATs on my L200, they have been rather fine in everything so far - and aren't too bad on the road either! Massively improved a car with godawful handling - the new Navara/Renault for 2016 looks pretty interesting though, I may just need to look into changing my (well, companies) lease! It's about due anyway....
Considerably better than the Bridgestone Duellers that it came with... but then so would tyres made of ice and grease. Hateful things!
molgripsDunno how you can claim to know what you are talking about and then post a sentence like that!
It's really quite simple molgrips, if you use low gears and high revs you'll break traction, even in a 4x4 with winter tyres. I know you're the sage guru of all things driving, so of course, you already know that, but lots of people don't. Also observe how traction control, designed to assist drivers will render their cars un-driveable in snow and ice if left on in some cars.
More often than not when people get stuck in 4x4s it's because they haven't a clue how to drive in the conditions, not because they need better stuff.
Considerably better than the Bridgestone Duellers that it came with... but then so would tyres made of ice and grease. Hateful things!
I concur - had them on a Ford Ranger a few years ago. I think they were actually made from ball bearings coated in silicone.
How does 4x4 improve braking and cornering? It's good for getting moving but getting moving can be just the first step in your crash.
I've got a 4x4 and I maintain they can get you into trouble further from help and at a greater speed that a 2wd if you aren't careful.
It's really quite simple molgrips
I know. Winter tyres give much more grip on snow. So no matter how inept a driver is, winter tyres will definitely help.
And I'm not sage of driving, I'm sage of sound reasoning 🙂
AT or MT style tyres are indeed great on soft, freshly lain snow.
They are no better than normal road tyres on compacted polished icy stuff. Arguably worse due to lower contact area.
In my experience, of course.
I was always surprised at how (relatively) few 4x4s there are in properly cold and snowy places like Finland, Norway, Latvia etc. Winter or studded tyres, more experienced / trained winter drivers and away they go.
They aren't all well trained. Saw a few howlers when I ws in Helsinki, although admittedly not as many as you would here 🙂
molgripsI know. Winter tyres give much more grip on snow. So no matter how inept a driver is, winter tyres will definitely help.
And no matter how good the winter tyres are, they won't make up for a drivers ineptitude. The driver's the crucial component here.
NorthwindHow does 4x4 improve braking and cornering? It's good for getting moving but getting moving can be just the first step in your crash.
4x4 gives a huge improvement in cornering performance in adverse conditions, but I know what you're saying. It can give a false sense of security as it doesn't making stopping any easier. Engine braking may be improved, I don't know but that'd be a moot point I think.
RWD cars with wide, low-profile tyres and no weight over the driving wheels = hopeless. Front wheel drive cars with a heavy diesel angine and narrow tyres will do much better. Mrs Gti's Ibiza with Avon Snow & Ice tyres is unstoppable, really excellent. There's a reason why winter rally cars have such narrow tyres. Series Land Rovers are good in snow and mud thanks to narrow tall tyres but they don't ride very nicely.
That said, good technique counts for a lot - momentum is your friend.
And no matter how good the winter tyres are, they won't make up for a drivers ineptitude.
Mostly, they will. You can still lose control of your car if you are really stupid but that goes for dry weather too.
To get around on snow on summer tyres you have to be really careful with the controls and have good knowledge and experience. On winter tyres, you can just drive normally but be a bit more careful. It's much easier.
Your opinion, winter tyres can overcome the most inept driving. My opinion, they can't. There's not much middle ground so we'll have to leave it at that.
Have driven standard front wheel drive cars in Germany, Canada and Sweden with winter tyres, and on one occasion on studded tyres. Winter tyres just work really well on snow and would probably be my preferred option. Studded tyres are incredible, but illegal in most places (and really noisy on tarmac). However, as someone else has said, everyone in front of you needs to have winter tyres for the traffic to move.
On the other hand, I have a 4WD with standard tyres, and the traction is excellent on snow (even hard packed). I suspect it's the smart differential rather than the 4WD itself that helps most. When a wheel starts to spin, it stops, and the drive is sent to the other wheels. However, I am really careful when cornering and (especially) braking, as the 4WD doesn't help here. I have pretty new tyres, and they're not stupid low profile jobs.
Matetr of definition. Even inept drivers can benefit from winter tyres. It might make enough of a difference to stop their ineptitude leading to crashitude, which you could call making up for it. It might not though, so you can say it won't overcome ineptitude.
Not sure there's any actual need for a stabbing outside the pub over this 😆