This sucks, sorry to hear. I don't understand why more cars don't have pin to drive like Tesla.
There are a huge number of Range Rovers and Land Rovers round us, with lots of theft reports.
Yeah, a friend had his Range Rover stolen (he can afford it so I don't think he cared that much) but to minimise inconvenience in the future he opted for a lowly top spec XC90. My heart bleeds for him 🤣
I don’t understand why more cars don’t have pin to drive like Tesla.
And tracker, and remote disabling.
They aren't the greatest thing to happen to cars since the electric starter, but it does show the difference between a tech company making a car, and a car company making tech.
You can remotely lock our Ford from the App, and see exactly where it is (assuming it can get a phone signal). You can even beep the horn and flash the lights. Not as clever as a pin.
If you needed a pin to start a car, wouldn't that just lead to more violent home invasions to get the pin?
I’m sure the police would love to but they probably are using up all their resources trying to stop people abusing and terrorising each other and ruining lives in a variety of ways. Your car is insured, no-one was hurt, so I imagine it’s a lower priority than a lot of stuff.
Only it’s not a “low level crime “ is it.
We are not just talking about little Jonny taking your car to go joy riding any more. We are talking about the stealing of high value cars that are sold on with the proceeds going toward the funding of organised crime groups. Not to mention that some stolen vehicles are then used in further crimes.
If the police are provided with a location of a stolen vehicle , they should damn well act upon it.
I sometimes think Line of Duty looks like a bloody fly on the wall documentary when this sort of thing is overlooked/ignored
If you needed a pin to start a car, wouldn’t that just lead to more violent home invasions to get the pin?
There is that. We have two cars (one worth next to nothing, the other a bit more valuable) and each set of keys also has the house keys on it. At night we bring the keys for the worthless car upstairs (in case of emergency) and leave the more valuable car's keys downstairs in a pretty obvious place (although not in direct view) - if some scrote wants to break in and steal the car keys, we want them to do it without putting anyone in the house at undue risk.
All the keyless systems have the same weakness, you just need a $20 repeater to start the car on the drive and you can drive it off without the keys…..
Yup. Between keyless relays and the ability to program new keys on the fly mid-theft, just about the only thing you have left now is visible deterrent.
However I've recently had a Ghost Immobiliser installed on mine, requires PIN entry to drive the car away even when the key is present and apparently it disables the OBD2 port. Bonus is it'll still let you start the car but stalls the minute you put it in gear, so I'd hear if anyone tried it. There are 6 different modules hidden that need to be found and disabled if some scrote wants away with the car, by which point I'm pretty sure they would have given up. Not particularly cheap but then neither are most of the cars being stolen so I guess it depends on whether or not you'd rather just let someone drive off and claim on the insurance.
No cars manufacturers are stupendously stupid!
Too true. On the alfa all it would need would be the ECU to shut physically disconnect the vulnerable bits of the canbus when the car was off. So the signal to the radar and the twelve volt supply. Instead the thieves are able to pop the radar off, feed the ECU backwards with 12v and then start talking to it over the network. Even just monitoring that part of the network with the alarm would be a start.
It's crap, but I'm pretty pragmatic about it.
The car is insured, they didn't come into the house and no harm was done to me or my family.
As long as the insurance firm don't play silly buggers then hopefully all will be sorted quickly.
So long as you have the keys I think you'll be ok. My KTM was taken off the driveway of our temporary house in the autumn. 4 blokes turned up in a transit and physically carried it into the back of the van one night. Insurance paid out within two weeks.
That’s not to say it’s okay – it’s horrible having stuff stolen even if you aren’t hurt after all – it’s just a sad state of affairs when services don’t get the funding they need. Just don’t say the police ‘aren’t bothered’ as if they are all sitting around with their feet up eating doughnuts.
Very good point.
Picking up our first keyless car on Friday, just a Fiesta but I’m already a bit concerned at the risk.
Will try and make sure one of the old fashioned cars goes in front of it to block it in.
You can turn it off, that was the first thing I did with my Focus. A really minor inconvenience next to losing your car.
Interestingly I wonder how that works on Fords like mine, they have an on board modem which is built into the guts of the car so can always be tracked unless you were to strip the whole thing out.
You can remotely lock our Ford from the App
But not deadlock it.
It would also be laughably easy to reset the account within minutes of them leaving with it as they just need access to Sync and the VIN number.
No cars manufacturers are stupendously stupid! (and that is a professional opinion). They still believe in security by obscurity. They would not hire a genuine security expert if he was the only unemployed person on earth!
No, no, you're wrong, it's all those folk on YouTube and the folk making bump keys based on decades old designs that are at fault!
No cars manufacturers are stupendously stupid!
Are they really though? All I'm seeing here is people buying more new cars from them with their insurance. The car makers are laughing!
In the case of a friends LR, they drove it to a dodgy garage where they removed the tracker and probably reprogrammed new keys. He gave the Police details of the location from the Tracker and they just gave him a crime number! No one seems bothered about stopping it.
presumably they provided that information to insurers as well. I think if this lack of interest by police is common insurers may start to be more proactive themselves.
I agree with revs1972 though - vehicle theft like this with a known location should be the “in” to disrupting organised crime. Perhaps it is - they don’t care about your LR but now they know where the vehicles go so they can mount a bigger operation but I suspect they are too busy dealing with the mental health cases the NHS isn’t coping with, the neighbourhood disputes the council isn’t resolving etc.
im intrigued though. Most cars have a GPS now. Most of the top end cars with keyless entry probably also have a “SOS” button, I’ve never used that but my understanding is it’s a aimless 4g phone embedded in the car. So can the manufacturer not either already, or fairly simply develop “find my car” type tracking?
I have embedded "find my car" type tracking in the alfa. Whatever dongle the scum plug in disables that also. Don't assume this is restricted to one make. It feels like car "manufacturers" are actually just system integrators. They go to bosch, continental, delphi or TRW and say "do you have a device that does XYZ", out comes their laminated catalogue of dreams and they fill in the order form with the little blue pen. Perhaps its the numpties at bosch we should point the finger at?
Are they really though? All I’m seeing here is people buying more new cars from them with their insurance. The car makers are laughing!
Correct - all the manufactures need to do is not be the worst and they keep selling cars. People buy cars based on BHP, MPG not how easy it is to steal. Security became an important differentiator with phones and we very quickly got biometrics built in to relatively low cost devices (compared to a new car).
The technology exists but there is no will from the manufactures to make their product supper secure whilst we still buying them.
If the police are provided with a location of a stolen vehicle , they should damn well act upon it.
Yes get the chopper up, grab the swat team out of the canteen and get a quick warrant - job done.
Where have you been for the last decade or so?
Proactive policing and investigation is on its arse. No resources, not enough staff, poor morale for a variety of reasons and a burgeoning workload.
Vehicle crime isn’t even a policing priority, as set by the Home Office so unlikely to be tasked activity for proactive investigation.
The tories have ****ed up another public service, get used to it.
bugger. Little S$£ts
We had our first campervan stolen off the drive during the day, again with no keys. Insurance were ok with the vehicle it was the contents that were a pain which shouldn’t affect you.
I have embedded “find my car” type tracking in the alfa. Whatever dongle the scum plug in disables that also.
Maybe not always. A friend of mine got his very fancy Bimmer M series stolen off his drive in January, but he actually got it back fine.
Apparently the thieves disabled the BMW tracker but my friend also fitted an additional aftermarket one, and they'd parked it up in an anonomous location for a few days to see if it had any such backup. Obviously it did - they didn't get caught, but he got his car back.
Kia seem to to the no1 car to nick (easy) in the USA it's on YouTube ect so suspect the UK will be playing catch up.
Only it’s not a “low level crime “ is it.
No, it's not. But no-one is in immediate danger of violence or death. I imagine those are the top priority when resources are at their lowest.
Hyundai already know where my car is all the time. I can open the app and they'll tell me.
How long would it take to wire in a simple switch to the fuel pump? Cranking without firing is noisy and should not harm the engine on the off chance little ned gets in and tries to take off.
Wont work on everything, but most modern cars have either a lift pump or hp pump thats 2 wires off a relay. Most throw a cel at low fuel rail pressure but a reset is a much better result than going through the rigmarole of insurance and replacing the car.
Plus it wont be limp home cel, probably one that resets with an engine on - off.
But would be stored in the ecu.
Wouldn't work on cam driven hp tandem diesels pumps though
i thought those StopLocks things were not advised, as they act as a lever to enable the thief to break the steering lock? i suppose theyve still got the thing stuck on the steering wheel, so they cant drive very easily.
Olly
Free Memberi thought those StopLocks things were not advised, as they act as a lever to enable the thief to break the steering lock? i suppose theyve still got the thing stuck on the steering wheel, so they cant drive very easily
Maybe with steering locks locked with a key. Keyless start means a solenoid, made me jump first time I heard it in the work Connect. So if they can hack the car, the steering lock will disengage anyway.
In winter at least I think I could get outside and pass them a cuppa before they manage to start my Relic, even if they bypass the immobiliser it takes some effort to start it on a cold morning.
People using Stoplocks forget that the steering wheel is soft metal and very easy to cut, which would make removing the lock take a few seconds! The full disclock lock takes about 3 mins with a grinder.
I think the lockbox over the pedals is more of a pain for thieves, get the ones without exposed locks/padlocks.
You guys need a car where you have to wiggle the actual key just right in the hole to get in.
Just seems mental that if the keys can be programmed not to transmit when not moving that this hasn’t been instigated long ago.
How long would it take to wire in a simple switch to the fuel pump?
Back in the day in my Mk3 Escort, I cut the wire to the ignition barrel and reconnected it via a switch hidden behind a fake speaker grille. Prior to that I used to take the coil lead with me if I parked up anywhere dodgy. Sometimes the Mk1 Viper approach is the most effective.
i thought those StopLocks things were not advised, as they act as a lever to enable the thief to break the steering lock?
That being the case, you'd still have to drive off with a lump of metal kneecapping you the first time you went round the corner.
the steering wheel is soft metal and very easy to cut,
Is it? I was always under the impression that the opposite was true, it was generally easier to cut a Crooklock than the wheel. Maybe that was just a myth, IDK.
Wouldn’t work on cam driven hp tandem diesels pumps though
Wouldn't really work on anything with direct injection. As long as the cars got more than (about) 1/4 of a tank of fuel the HP pump will slurp up fuel that's in the pump pot and it'll fill itself.
It'll run like a bag of nails and eventually start breaking stuff though.
Just seems mental that if the keys can be programmed not to transmit when not moving that this hasn’t been instigated long ago.
:LOL:
Yeah, it's just a few lines of code, dead simple. :rolleyes:
Actually means it needs a bigger battery, probably two sensors for redundancy, plus a load of error checking hardware/software as the key is a secure device, don't want any failures in that do you.
And there are two of them.
Most companies will probably bypass that tech completely and go straight to phone as key and UHF tagging.
So you actually need the device physically within range of the car, using UHF location and the phones own communication systems to identify and locate.
But, we'll see how long it takes them to crack that.
Then there's all the new cybersecurity legal requirements that are being rolled out.
That's a whole new stinking can of worms.
I had something similar in an old Astra. Fake front fog light switch, turn ignition on, press fog switch then start.
Back in the day in my Mk3 Escort, I cut the wire to the ignition barrel and reconnected it via a switch hidden behind a fake speaker grille. Prior to that I used to take the coil lead with me if I parked up anywhere dodgy. Sometimes the Mk1 Viper approach is the most effective.
One of the lads used to do that at matches - open up his xr3i bonnet, take the leads with him into the sports centre.
Was ok until one day he came out, car had gone. 4 cars further down the row was another escort with the bonnet up, leads gone...
My Tesla obviously uses phone as key but apparently this can still be hacked - same principle but requires someone to get within about 2 inches of the phone to transmit, so I guess much less likely. Still think I might turn on the pin to drive feature though!
Is it? I was always under the impression that the opposite was true, it was generally easier to cut a Crooklock than the wheel. Maybe that was just a myth, IDK.
Steering wheels used to be very tough, a thickish metal rim (aluminium casting at a guess) covered in some sort of high density PU foam and then the decorative cover.
But they tend to really really really hurt in a crash.
So no, now they are (generally) quite flexible and easy to cut or bend, pretty sure some are now almost completely plastic, almost no core to them at all. You could probably cut through many of them with a pair of pruning shears using both hands.
Kia seem to to the no1 car to nick (easy) in the USA it’s on YouTube ect so suspect the UK will be playing catch up.
TikTok challenge etc is a different thing and only in North America. In the US, it wasn't mandatory to install immobilizers, so for a couple of years, Kia saved £2.34 per car by not installing them. They've been compulsory in Europe (inc UK) for ages...IIRC.
We have 2 reasonably nice vehicles, one keyless and one not. We take different approaches to their security.
The keyless one does not have a stoplock.
The keyed one does.
Here's why, if someone is motivated enough they will steal either one no matter what.
If they want the keyless one I would rather they didn't break in and attempt to find the key in one of the many jackets/bags my wife owns and "hides" her keys in, realise they can't find it and then decide to wake us up whilst pointing a sawn off at us...
If they want the keyed one, they are likely breaking in, the big yellow stoplock is hopefully enough deterrent that it means they choose to steel some other poor buggers van. There is a Metatrack deadlock tracker on this vehicle so i can report it to the police to be told that they don't have the staff...
So if you were to install some sort of kill switch where is best?
Is that to kill the b*****d that tries to steal your car?
I recall not being able to start my old 206 once. It cranked and cranked. It wouldve cranked all day but it never fired.
To my shame when mr AA turned up, it was just a fuse that ran a body systems computer. He said that this paticular computer controls the Engine management, so while it had all the hardware to run, the computer wasnt on.
Im gonna go with that one.
I did investigate getting an imobiliser added onto my transit. I got a quote for one where you need an RFID tag and you wave it at a specific unmarked area of dashboard, and that gave you 5 seconds to turn the ignition before it reset.
Is that to kill the b*****d that tries to steal your car?
Bloke down our road in tbe 70s got so fed up with his viva being broken into he told the police he'd put a poison laced bottle of booze in there to be nicked. They weren't impressed.
Steering wheels used to be very tough, a thickish metal rim (aluminium casting at a guess) covered in some sort of high density PU foam and then the decorative cover.
But they tend to really really really hurt in a crash.
So no, now they are (generally) quite flexible and easy to cut or bend, pretty sure some are now almost completely plastic, almost no core to them at all.
I was not aware of that. Cheers.
Our 2016 Fiesta got nicked a few weeks back, normal key fob button to get in, normal twist of a key to start. Keys were not taken.
Despite the lack of house invasion the 11 year old has had problems since going upstairs on his own, it really kicked off his ADHD hyper-vigilance. Yay for thieves.
.
Yay for thieves.
My heart goes out to him.
It's easy to go "yeah it's insured" and I've said the same countless times myself on threads like these. But being robbed has a mental cost.
It took me years to get over being burgled for a second time. I became scared to leave the house. Holidays filled me with paranoia. I'd return home from work and come into the house Just So to align my sight with the glass in the door so I could see the LED in the front of the PC so was reassured that I probably hadn't been done over again. And I wasn't 11.
Taking aside the extra tech and battery power you’d need for a key that only activated on movement, PIN to drive would be the simplest thing to implement in any new car.
