Great start to Tuesday morning as I take the dog out for a stroll and notice that my car was missing from the drive.
Keys not taken, but car definitely has been.
Police and insurance informed.
Wondered if there was anything I need to be aware of from the perspective of the insurance company to get the best outcome?
Land Rover? Seems to be a few going recently! I think a lot of key cloning.
Hope the claim goes smoothly.
Bad luck, that's horrible 😔
Was it a keyless entry car?
The poster above mentioned Land Rovers, it is unbelievable how many are going missing here. Probably 2-3 a week being posted on our local facebook group and it's only a small town.
what vehicle was it?
I would start looking for similar age/mileage/condition cars, so when the insurance company try and kick you in the balls, you have evidence of the value of the vehicle.
What a naff situation!
Kia Ceed, hardly the height of desirability...
Keyless, keys are still in the house in the metal box they normally live in.
Friend has his brand new LR stolen from the drive, he could even track it and told the Police where it was.
They just gave him a crime number.
A day or so later, the tracker went dead.
Kia Ceed, hardly the height of desirability…
They are very nice cars!
That really sucks!
did you ever actually test it to make sure it was really blocking the signal? Kias have notoriously poor security for their keyless entry system!Keyless, keys are still in the house in the metal box they normally live in.
Motion/camera activated lights on the drive for the future?
Motion/camera activated lights on the drive for the future?
Appears to make no difference to a mask and/or hoodie wearing scumbag, other than make it a little easier for them to see what they're doing
Are the keys / key box within view or line of sight of any window or letter box etc?
I believe that there are key scanners available that can scan your keys from a distance, just needing line of sight, enabling thieves to effectively copy your keys on the drive way....the metal box had to be specific to block keys - can't just be a cash box etc.
Tic-tok challenge apparently. See 'Bleeping computer' etc.
Kias have notoriously poor security for their keyless entry system!
All the keyless systems have the same weakness, you just need a $20 repeater to start the car on the drive and you can drive it off without the keys.....
What happens with a stolen Kia? Is it used for committing crimes, sold, shipped abroad or stripped?
Shipped to Africa / Eastern Europe in a container and sold on.
he metal box had to be specific to block keys – can’t just be a cash box etc.
Any metal box with a metal lid that has a good seal will probably be good enough, although if it's painted on the inside the lid won't work as it has to make electrical contact all the way round (or at least at a few points on each side).
Dunga. Thieves are stupendously sophisticated. If they're not getting access through keyless relays, then they're actively reprogramming the car with a brand new key before they even get in. On Alfas and Bimmers this is through the front radar, though I've heard of light clusters and parking sensors also being targeted on other makes - remove the device, hack the canbus, drive away. One lovely company in Romania sell a toolkit with a lock bumper and an OBD dongle for a number of cars. Bump the locks with the device, that also displays the key template code, shove the obd dongle in the socket and it immediately puts the car into "learn a new key mode". Amazing tech. Bloomin' annoying.
That's awful to hear. I mean the only positive, if there is one, is that they didn't come into your house for the keys. A neighbour of mine had a mini cooper and the culprits torched their rear patio doors, snapped the barrel lock and made their way into the house to get the keys and left by the front door. This was why they slept upstairs!
One reason I bought a Skoda was I hoped it wasn't at all (or as) desirable but the keyless and cloning thing does make me a bit anxious about the ease it could be taken. The faraday pouch is a thing, but I recently discovered you can disarm the keyless entry anyway when locking the doors.
I hope the claim goes OK and you get sorted fairly and swiftly.
Same stuff here - cars nicked every week. Similar doorbell footage posted on local facebook of someone trying car doors and someone else kicking around. I presume the someone not trying the door has the device looking for a keyless key signal?
I presume the someone not trying the door has the device looking for a keyless key signal?
Cars on drives are easy as you know which house has the key. They just use a wireless repeater which boosts the weak signal from the key so that it appears to be right next to the car door. Car just unlocks and you press the ignition and drive off. The repeater is just a small box of electronics you point at the front door, hoping the keys are in the hallway. If they are, bingo - you have a new car.
It would be very easy to redesign keyless entry to prevent this attack using 'time of flight' measurement, but there is no incentive for the manufacturers to bother - until their cars become uninsurable that it.
In the case of a friends LR, they drove it to a dodgy garage where they removed the tracker and probably reprogrammed new keys. He gave the Police details of the location from the Tracker and they just gave him a crime number! No one seems bothered about stopping it.
I think siemens have already produced keys that shut themselves down if they're not moving. So if they're in a drawer they won't relay. You can also buy batteries that replace the standard CR2032 cells that work in a similar way.
Does this technology work with any keyless entry or just the type that auto unlocks doors? I have keyless entry on our two cars but they both require a physical push on the button on the fob to unlock the door.
Will be see a new demand for old school deterrents like steering wheel locks?
My Skoda, if Keyless is activated then you only have to tap the door handle to lock and unlock it. If you lock the car with the key fob button, and within five seconds tap the door handle, then it deadlocks the car and disarms the keyless so to unlock it again you have to press the key-fob unlock button. Seemingly, this would prevent the theft by a repeater or cloning box.
"Keyless" usually refers to touch sensitive door handles where touching the handle makes the car call up the key over radio, the key then responds with an encrypted message that unlocks the car. It's basically the car pressing the button on your remote, remotely.
Yep steering wheel locks are what is being recommended to people on the alfa forum I'm on.
We had a car nicked off the drive 1st April last year. We have gone back to the 1980's with a steering wheel lock. They are apparently really hard to get off without power tools and are meant to be a good deterrent. Bit of a PITA but better than getting a car nicked. Lots of cars getting nicked here in leafy Surrey.
They just use a wireless repeater which boosts the weak signal from the key so that it appears to be right next to the car door.
It seems just about impossible to prevent when the talk is about relay devices projecting 10-15 metres into the house. Rather difficult to locate your key that far from anywhere outside your house. Unless its in a metal box etc.
That's really shit @lunge, hope it gets resolved with minimal hassle.
I think siemens have already produced keys that shut themselves down if they’re not moving.
They've been available for several years. No motion, no signal.
It's mad isn't it. The technology of the manufacturers is just lagging behind the wizardry of the car thieves. That Alfa video is bonkers.
Now if someone could just make a crook-lock that event he lockpicking lawyer couldn't defeat, they would be quids in!
Picking up our first keyless car on Friday, just a Fiesta but I'm already a bit concerned at the risk.
Will try and make sure one of the old fashioned cars goes in front of it to block it in.
Owned a kodiaq with keyless for 5 years and did not know that. Explains why I thought the lock /fob was a bit dodgy from time to time-turns out it was a design feature…
We have gone back to the 1980’s with a steering wheel lock. They are apparently really hard to get off without power tools and are meant to be a good deterrent.
I use a Stoplock Pro on my van - reviews compare it favourably to the likes of Dislocks which are more of a PITA to use. Stoplock less cumbersome hence always gets used. Unsure exactly how effective it is but all I hope for is it makes them go for the next van along without a steering lock device. In a shark attack you only need to be a faster swimmer than your buddy...
This is a shit state to be in. Footflaps has already suggested a design way for this to be prevented, but here we are, looking at steering locks, blocking cars in, aftermarket this and that.... rubbish.
Lunge - hope it is all resolved asap for you.
Picking up our first keyless car on Friday, just a Fiesta but I’m already a bit concerned at the risk.
Will try and make sure one of the old fashioned cars goes in front of it to block it in.
At risk of being a doom-monger, Fiestas are currently the most stolen car in the UK.
https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-most-stolen-cars-in-the-uk/n21162
Fiestas are currently the most stolen car in the UK.
Bogus stat alert. There are over 1.5M Fiestas on the road ( https://motorway.co.uk/sell-my-car/guides/most-popular-cars-in-the-uk) so you'd expect there to be a lot of them stolen - most of their top 10 nicked are also in the top 10 on the road. The 3.7K stolen Range Rovers will come from a much smaller base so that's a far more concerning total.
At risk of being a doom-monger, Fiestas are currently the most stolen car in the UK.
They're also one of the most common cars in the UK, so I would guess the odds per car are still quite low.
I have keyless entry on our two cars but they both require a physical push on the button on the fob to unlock the door.
then you dont have keyless entry.
My fiesta ST has keyless start, so when in the car, i just press the start/stop button, but it doesnt have keyless entry, as i have to press unlock on the fob.
I wonder if this is any more or less secure than a full keyless entry system, as the act of physically pressing the button isnt possible by the thieves and their clever scanners.
At risk of being a doom-monger, Fiestas are currently the most stolen car in the UK.
in the same way I would imagine a Carrera is the most stolen bicycle.
Motion/camera activated lights on the drive for the future?
Appears to make no difference to a mask and/or hoodie wearing scumbag,
there was another post this morning where apparently a hoodie was scared off by the presence of a camera. no idea whether lights were involved though 🤷♂️ I accept though it very much depends what sort of area you live in as to how brazen the thieves are!!
Yes, I did think as a proportion of the vehicle numbers it was skewed. I did read that JLR used to offer free insurance for the first year on Rangies and Landies, but this was withdrawn such was the prevalence of theft. Each to their own and what not, but I can't imagine buying a car as flash as a big Range Rover that I was pretty sure going to be targeted one way or another. I don't think I would sleep at night!
franksinatra
Full Member
Will be see a new demand for old school deterrents like steering wheel locks?
Sounds like just not getting a keyless setup is a big help. I've had it in the past and thought I was missing out at the moment, reading this thread it doesn't seem like such a loss.
Sounds like just not getting a keyless setup is a big help.
Getting harder and harder as it's becoming the norm now on some models.
He gave the Police details of the location from the Tracker and they just gave him a crime number! No one seems bothered about stopping it.
I'm sure the police would love to but they probably are using up all their resources trying to stop people abusing and terrorising each other and ruining lives in a variety of ways. Your car is insured, no-one was hurt, so I imagine it's a lower priority than a lot of stuff.
That's not to say it's okay - it's horrible having stuff stolen even if you aren't hurt after all - it's just a sad state of affairs when services don't get the funding they need. Just don't say the police 'aren't bothered' as if they are all sitting around with their feet up eating doughnuts.
We use StopLock too. They come with the best reviews. Nice big visible deterrent and the other factor, the neighbour getting a new Range Rover as better temptation than our replacement car (Volvo).
I think siemens have already produced keys that shut themselves down if they’re not moving. So if they’re in a drawer they won’t relay.
That's only half of the current problem - apparently a lot of cars are vulnerable to physical attack and hacking without the need for the key - current Toyota/Lexus models apparently you can remove the bumper to access the headlight control ECU, which can then be used to unlock the car and program a new key. Land Rovers can have holes cut in the bodywork to access the ECU, which can then be swapped to one which has been tampered with to allow the car to start etc. There are solutions like ECU connected immobilisers (Autowatch Ghost) but they need to be fitted, or physical security like a disklock...
That's rubbish, my sympathies. I had a Civic stolen about a decade ago, pre-keyless, heard the alarm on the road outside, by the time I got to the window it was driving down the street. Once they're in seemingly they have devices that can add a key or bypass the immobiliser so it can be driven away.
No hassles with the insurance company, sent off paperwork and my keys, their offer was fine so I had a cheque within a week or so.
You can normally disable keyless entry, as we have with my wife’s iD3 (although I’m not sure if this actually prevents the bandits entirely).
There are a huge number of Range Rovers and Land Rovers round us, with lots of theft reports. They are all starting to sprout old school steering wheel locks.
It is so ridiculously frustrating - I’d like a new car, but everything I’d want would be a risk so I stick with my 8 year old car instead. Total scum.
Thieves are stupendously sophisticated.
No cars manufacturers are stupendously stupid! (and that is a professional opinion). They still believe in security by obscurity. They would not hire a genuine security expert if he was the only unemployed person on earth!
