Consider a 02 BMW 530D estate, for general family duties + holiday trips. Mileage would be c.8-10k per year.
Excluding purchase cost which I know is a premium, are the running costs (fuel, servicing, consumables) of the beast OK or horribly high, and are they offset by the supposed reliability and build quality (which should mean fewer problems?).
Anyone had any experience?
Cheers
Look out for front suspension bushes, which on my 530D seemed to need doing every 30k or so.
Servicing was OK at an independent - about £250 for a smaller service, £400 for a biggie, on a variable basis. Probably 15k between services.
Tyres/insurance were no problem, reliability was great, and I averaged 39mpg.
Great car, TERRIBLE in snow, and not hugely good in rain. I'd have another.
Waits for surf-mat to appear like Mr Ben...
My big services for a Passat are £200 at the main dealer (who are quite good).
Just sayin... You've got to want the badge.
When you drive a bmw, it means you have to drive like/be a ****, with your foot to the floor - it will cost you loads in fuel
My big services for a Passat are £200
if its a 530d its more powerful than a passat so not really like for like comparison.
does sound quite expensive though, a full serivice including cambelt and spark plugs on my impreza was 500 at an inedpendent.
Waits for surf-mat to appear like Mr Ben...
He's 58 minutes late, strange...
Had a few of em (4 tourings and around 17 bmws) Last one was a 330d sport touring and was probably the best car I've ever owned and I have owned many 'nicer' cars. I'd get an auto though most of the cars on sale will be anyway. Echo the point on suspension bushes as it has always been a weak point on bms. I think the e39 5 series uses the row of lights on the dash to indicate if it needs a service. If there aren't many showing it'll need a service soon, oil change not too bad but don't buy one coming up to an inspection 1 or 2 without knocking a decent amount off. And stay away from the BMW dealer network, plenty of good independents out there. The e39 is arguably the best car BMW has ever built.
Btw, there is no need for a cambelt change as all bmws use timing chains.
Mpg should be around mid to high 30s in normal driving.
Oops, I read 520 not 530.
Insert usual debate about fast cars here.
TBH I don't know much about that particular model but they seem to be reliable and are fairly rapid. The latest ones have moved on a fair bit in terms of bhp and mpg though. All handle really well and that older shape doesn't have stupid run flat tyres which is a plus (I changed mine to non flats).
Decent amount of room in the back, well made, poor image is partly helped if you fall over yourself to be polite to other drivers!
I've got my first service on our 335d Touring tomorrow (at a main dealer) so will have an idea of costs then - generally considered to be not too bad though.
TBH I don't know much about that particular model
@Mastiles_Fanylion copies into a Word document to print out, frame and marvel at until the end of time itself.
8)
It's not what a FORUM BATTLE LEGEND wants on his cv is it.
I had a 320d Touring, but TBH I don't know how much main dealer servicing cost as mine had a full service pack included - all servicing up to 3 years / 60k miles paid for up front by its original owner (the BMW fleet); when it passed 60k miles I started getting it done at a local independant garage and it wasn't too bad.
39mpg on average including a 30 mile each way commute across Leeds / Bradford; when I changed it to my current car, a Saab 9-3 diesel sportwagon, I was getting the same mpg until I changed my route to not go through the centre of Bradford, so the low mpg is more down to the stop-start nature of the route than my driving style
I don't remember any snow in the 4 & a bit years that I had it but having seen another RWD car sliding about last winter I can imagine it wouldn't be good.
Apart from the original purchase price and the fact that the boot is too small for my particular needs, I'd have another
But thinking again, if you're only doing 8-10k miles a year, do you really need a diesel?
Tbh if you are driving in snow at a point you could find out that a car was dangerous then you are a complete idiot who doesn't deserve to have a licence!!!
DSC is a brilliant system and is quite capable of keeping a BMW on the road in poor conditions.
Speedy diesels aren't just about mpg - they are about easily accessible torque and good ranges between fuel stops (which I hate). Low emissions are a handy bonus too.
They are cr4p in snow/ice/wet grass though. Really cr4p!
At 8-10k miles per year you are better off buying a petrol rather than diesel and make sure you get a sport rather than SE.
I have a 51 530i saloon and the servicing costs at my independent are:
Oil service £125
Inspection 1 £220
Inspection 2 £240
Swirl flaps on older diesel BMWs have become an issue recently causing lots of problems.
I love my E39 and much prefer the styling to the new E60/E61.
Not had any problems with bushes, but that could be down to luck as the E39 is a big car that will wear its suspension components out over time.
Do the sums for the petrol model. At that sort of mileage you won't really be getting much advantage from the diesel engine, and servicing / repairs is generally a bit pricier.
That said, I'd bet on a 535D losing less in depreciation than a 530. It'll probably cost less to buy the 530 now though.
The argument that low mileages are better off with petrol doesn't make sense to me, as mentioned above, I like diesels for the extra torque which works better with autos.
I'd choose a diesel over a petrol every time regardless of mpg. Had quite a few 330i's in various guises and they felt positively gutless next to my chipped 330d.
Swirl flaps have only really been a problem on the small diesel engines - the 18d and the 20d units.
You don't buy a 530d/535d/330d/335d to skimp on fuel costs. You buy them to have near supercar (or even more) levels of torque almost from idling. Press the throttle on a powerful diesel and it will fling you to the horizon no matter what revs you are at. If mpg is vital, you get a 520d/320d/318d.
[i]That said, I'd bet on a 535D losing less in depreciation than a 530. It'll probably cost less to buy the 530 now though. [/i]
You've said an 02 model, which should be the old shape and you are probably only paying £5k? So depreciation won't really be an issue, whether its a 530d or 530i, probably a grand a year at the most.
Servicing etc will be pretty much the same as any other 6 cylinder car, half as much again as a four cylinder car... And tyres/brakes etc aren't too bad now as the model is old.
Fuel wise, probably lucky to see 30mpg petrol and 35mpg diesel - I've an E39 535i which will do 25mpg, but usually 22-23mpg.
My rear bushings are going, advisory at MOT - my mechanic says just wait until its noisy.
A 330i vs 330d is not really a true comparison either because of the turbo on the diesel.
A turbo'd petrol of the same displacement as the diesel would be fun!
Just to say that the servicing costs I quoted included the usual small stuff you'd expect on a car of a certain age - the base service was cheaper. Just don't expect that you'll ever pay ONLY the basic price...then again, that's the same for most older cars.
[i]and make sure you get a sport rather than SE.[/i]
Why?
I like how mine is the 'base' (£42k in 1998...) model with standard wheels and normal tyres - far better ride than other more 'sporty' versions.
OP have you driven one yet? Its not a typical-BMW driver experience.
A 330i vs 330d is not really a true comparison either because of the turbo on the diesel.A turbo'd petrol of the same displacement as the diesel would be fun!
Well compare the 335i to the 335d then - same engine size, both have two turbos. 335d beats 335i around Bruntingthorpe (by 0.1s) and the 335i was a manual too...
br - agreed. I think we are a rare breed. I don't like M Sport stuff - flaky wheels that crack, plasticky body kit and IMO "M" should not be on any car except a proper M3/5/6/ZM4/etc. It's like overpriced chavving IMO!
The argument that low mileages are better off with petrol doesn't make sense to me
Diesel car costs more to buy and more to service. You need to save a lot of money on fuel to make up the difference. I did the sums (On a different car admittedly) a while ago and it was 15-20,000 miles a year for 3 years before it was financially viable to buy a diesel.
A 330i vs 330d is not really a true comparison either because of the turbo on the diesel.
A diesel needs a turbo to get any performance out of it.
Remember the days of non-turbo diesels? Dreadful dirty slow efforts.
A diesel needs a turbo to get any performance out of it.
Remember the days of non-turbo diesels? Dreadful dirty slow efforts.
Even turbo diesels used to be terrible. It was "common rail" diesel technology that brought decent soot chuckers to the market. They do need turbos - I can't think of any non turbo diesels in any modern car today.
306 had a hdi non-turbo engine in it. Made had a 2001 model - not sure if they used the same engine in the 307..
A friend ownes a E39 (from new).
It has a front wheel shimmy and its electrics are playing up like crazy.
Apart from that its ok. However the 5series is one of those cars that if something does go wrong you might be looking at 'rid' or 'repair' IMO.
Plus higher miler 3lt diesel engines have a known turbo-failure habit?
It was "common rail" diesel technology that brought decent soot chuckers to the market.
Nah, it was before that. VW's IDI engines were nice and driveable, if slow; the original TDI was better still, thenm PD was an improvement again. The super duper big-man style fast cars have only become fully competitive with petrol recently tho, but in normal cars diesels have been good for a while.
Pity VW built in various ways to implode/kill their PD engines 😉
IMO the first "proper" diesel were common rail (1997) - Alfa were the first (for once) but the HDI Pugs units and the VAG PD units soon followed. From then, diesels got much better. Since 2005, they've got even better than that.
Common rail diesels are used on pretty much all cars now - whether the engine is large or small.
molgrips - Member
My big services for a Passat are £200 at the main dealer (who are quite good).Just sayin... You've got to want the badge.
We had a Passat on our last biking trip to Scotland, The ride is awful, bmw driving experience is miles ahead...
[i]Plus higher miler 3lt diesel engines have a known turbo-failure habit? [/i]
My friends 56 plate 530d just lurched itself, at only 65k.
Luckily he's managed to part-ex for a nearly-new VW, with a main dealer who didn't even bother starting it - and has since rung up complaining - caveat emptor...
I've got an 09 525d. Like the SE for a less bumpy ride. Mrs wanted a manual, hence 525 rather than 530 and I'm happy cos its a big car which handles really well. 40mpg current average. I love mine to bits; had a tweaked hot hatch before and this is as fun if I put my foot down, just in a different way! (Plus now I can carry wife, dog, baby and bikes..!!)
thanks all ... sounds like it might possibly satisfy some balance between a degree of practicality and enjoying a powerful engine / relative performance, and keep Mrs A happy as she loves the seat position/comfort!
I like the ride on my Passat, it rolls a bit more than I'd expect in corners but then I don't rag it about so I don't mind. The worst thing on windy roads is the sheer size - forces you to slow down a bit in the narrow bits.
But back on topic (ish) - CRs are indeed much better I reckon. The less reliable PD units (as I am just reading up on since I found out I have one) are as a result of fancier piezo injectors which allow a greater variance in timing. It drives a lot better than an old PD job, but apparently some injectors (made by Siemens rather than Bosch I think) can be unreliable.
Oh, and why do people say diesel servicing costs are more than petrol? What's more expensive?
Plus higher miler 3lt diesel engines have a known turbo-failure habit?My friends 56 plate 530d just lurched itself, at only 65k.
Luckily he's managed to part-ex for a nearly-new VW, with a main dealer who didn't even bother starting it - and has since rung up complaining - caveat emptor...
Couple of grand at least I think for the labour and new part 😯
Flogging a knackered car under the pretence that it's okay is pretty bloody immoral in my book.
Agreed - that is sly.
But when its to a main stealer and the sales guy (who allegedly is the 'pro') didn't even bother to start the car - no doubt he was just focussing on the cash (and the misely part-ex my mate had agreed to).
The dealer's clearly expecting it to work. You don't f*ck somebody over and say it's their fault for not expecting it.
havent read most of the above but my mate has a 320d and they 'can' have serious turbo trouble, his did and cost over a grand to fix.
might have just been a friday afternoon build though.
Aye but the salesman was probably sacked on the spot.
Monkey - what age? New (E90) shape is generally fine, E46 shape was dodgy.
I had the swirl flaps go on my 1.9CDTi (150PS) Astra - had it not been under warranty, it would have cost grands to fix. The dealer was utterly appalling too.
My Bimmer is in for a service today - my courtesy car? A 116i Sport with NO torque!! Tidy handling though.
Aye but the salesman was probably sacked on the spot.
Even more for b r's made to be proud of...
A 116i Sport with NO torque!!
Oh my god how did you cope! What an insult! 😉
Mol - TBH for a little hatch, it's not bad. Well made, nice handling and although a mere 122bhp, it goes okay.
It's important to drive like an utter c**t in one though to prove it's a "real" BMW...!!
122bhp from a 1.6 is decent enough.
Can't decide re BMW still. The 'image' seems to be intertwined with the cars themselves since they design them to drive like that.
We are talking about the 1 series aka reverse Tardis finished in swathes of plastic? (also close internal space relation to the Seat Leon) 😉
[i]Aye but the salesman was probably sacked on the spot. [/i]
Why, all that will happen is that the deal won't add as much to his GP (possibly even be negative) as he thought - don't start having sympathy for someone who obviously can't do their job.
Not sympathy for the dealer. It's just not a very nice thing to do.
If someone goes into the back room of my LBS leaving me alone in the shop, should I run out with a bike?
Hora - plastic and what looks like flock wallpaper - the very same 1 series.
But to be fair, it does corners well, the brakes are good and it's got a fair bit of kit. I'm also 5'8" so room not an issue!
Mol - the image totally put me off for years and years TBH. I still think too many BMW drivers shouldn't have a license but they are genuinely decent cars and some of their models are pretty unique (some in a good way, some not). I think their fundamental principles of doing lots of engine research (so making good engines), sticking to well balanced chassis set up and only RWD (some AWD) for their "normal" cars is a strategy worth sticking to.
don't start having sympathy for someone who obviously can't do their job.
Or made a mistake and was then mislead?
Senior Arnold Clark salesman who delt with me apparently was moved from the premium dealership to the Vauxhall dealership after a soured deal with me. Sales manager alleged that I'd ripped them off so I went ballistic.
The muscular aggressive aesthetic of their cars is weary on my eyes...
In any case, they are too expenisve for me 🙂
molgrips - Member
The muscular aggressive aesthetic of their cars is weary on my eyes...In any case, they are too expensive for me
The old ones aren't expensive.
I am not a fan of the E60/E61, E90, etc styling and will not buy one when it comes to replacing my E39.
The muscular aggressive aesthetic of their cars is weary on my eyes...
That's partly why I went for an SE instead of the default "M Sport" option - to soften that look.
I hated the E60 and E90 when they came out but now like them - odd how things change over time! E60 still looks a bit Dame Edna to me!
You can pick up a BMW for any price from £100 to £100++k
+1In any case, they are too expenisve for me
Old bemmers not more expensive than old golfs etc?
In any case, this is my next newer car I reckon, in a few years 🙂
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And this is mine:
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Followed by:
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(waits for Mol to say they are too powerful, etc...) 😉
Waste of energy is what they are 🙂