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I use Honda in Cambridge, they aren't dirt cheap but they don't seem to over-inflate work needed either, car has done 130k so needs bits occasionally. 2 years ago they said the exhaust was thin in places but not worth worrying about till it was blowing, it's the original exhaust.
They also priced matched tyres from black-circles for me when I got an advisory done last month.
So they aren't ALL bad (this is the only main dealership I've ever used by the way).
"Once your car is with them with the wheels off you are a captive customer and its sometimes easier just to say 'Yes'"
The wheels btw are unlikley to be removed on a dealer oil service.
I think he was being figurative rather than literal. In the same way as I don't think he's actually being held captive.I think a lot of people feel like the first statement. Once a garage has got a car in then a big proportion of people will go along with whatever is said.
Thank you. Exactly what I meant.
I am just trying to give some inside information. If people want to argue the toss that's up to them. Sadly some folk are not as clued up as some of the keyboard warriors in this post and rely on franchised dealers to provide sound information regarding what does and doesn't need replacing. Its not right, but its no mutually specific to the motor-trade! Regardless Oil service, or major service. You will need to prove to them that you are qualified, have used the official approved parts and adhered to the service specification in order for the warranty to be honored.
There is no hard and fast rules as to what 'FSH' means - you certainly could advertise it as having 'FSH' as it's service history is documented - but it's missed a service.
Just put E&OE at the end of your ad. If somebody complains, tell them it's a mis-print and the car comes with a FISH (put a tin of sardines in the boot).
FWIW I get my car serviced at our local Indy, but my wife's is at the Land Rover dealer.
Yes, it costs 3x the price but her car cost 6x the price of mine, so when something goes wrong out of warranty they (and you) have 'goodwill' to call upon.
Does it work out cheaper overall? No idea.
Dealers/Stealers - it can vary from visit to visit!
e.g. VW Dealer:
Had a light come on the dash - read the fault code FOC. On another car a SEAT dealer charged me £30 to read the code!
Had a major service there, no problems. Fast, efficient replaced some parts and kept them to show me the problem (I asked to see them to check).
Next service, recommended replacement of brake and suspension components. Car was MOT'd elsewhere about a month before with no advisories, so I took it back to that garage who popped it on the ramp and showed me there was nothing wrong with the parts VW wanted to replace!
whats the qualification required?
Priced an minor service for my Octavia - independent VW group specialist - £120 + VAT. Skoda fixed price £130 inc VAT. Think I'll go with the cheaper main dealer and also keep up the full dealer service history meantime.
The pads/discs one, and the inflated charges vs quickfit and indie garages seems to be a highly prevalent rip off from main dealers. ex-wife had it recently from a Subaru main dealer.
With this scam being so common you would think it might be more common knowledge.
I also had a Lexus maindealer charge me for a non-existent top-up bottle of expensive oil, and they missed a brake light which was out on their safety check.
On the whole, I've much more trust in estate agents and politicians than main dealer service departments.
whats the qualification required?
What do you have ?
those specific details will probably be referenced somewhere on the paperwork, or be covered under some sort of legislative framework.Theres no reference to "qualified" or "technical specification" in the warranty in front of me, so they are not part of the contract.
What do you have ?
O level woodwork which is more than most people who will be changing your oil.
those specific details will probably be referenced somewhere on the paperwork, or be covered under some sort of legislative framework.
There not, but if it is possible to add terms not in the contract can I add a replacement Lambo instead of a fabia, no need to tell Skoda I'll keep that clause on a post it in my sock draw.
O level woodwork which is more than most people who will be changing your oil.
I know a few VW techs, they do hundreds of hours classroom training, thousands of hours of workshop time, and numerous exams to get qualified.
But yes, I'm absolutely [b]sure[/b] you do it all [i]much[/i] better than they do 😉
Evening, “FSH” to me means serviced to the car manufacturers specification. So its its 10,000 or 12months whatever comes first then that’s what it should be. Within that if it says change brake fluid at 24months then yes that should also be done, same with the coolant etc. Manufacters specify these changes as ideal to keep your car in optimum health.
People who go to an indie and say just an oil change isn’t full history. Its half-assed servicing. With the home servicing- look at it this way if you do ALL the manufacturers recommended changes but you are a self-taught mechanic how can you expect a new owner to trust your skills when you haven’t been paid commercially to do the same job? You couldn’t be faulted for thinking the same if you were looking to buy from someone and they said ‘I’ve done it all myself’ proudly.
I would say in the case of mixed main dealer/indie and home service ‘its got a GOOD history’. Its by no means FSH. I bought a Subaru privately from a Police officer and he had itemised bills from Subaru for all services present. That is whats you can full serviced history.
As for all main dealers are bad etc. Untrue. The staff can be brilliant and trustworthy, it can be the management pressuring and directing them to lift revenue. Staff don’t go out of their way to make extra money by being dishonest do they. I’ve been to great dealers – Subaru/Suzuki Huddersfield is fantastic and there is a good bloke on here who works for a main dealer.
Oh and quit slagging off the mechanics be it entry or proper skilled ones. Just because you did a media degree or feel self important doesn't mean you have more skill or intelligence.
Main dealers need to pay for those posh show rooms somehow! I don think they make mch on the car itself (especially as lots are leased / PCP'd these days). Their profit comes from finance / insurance add on kick backs and servicing.
They all seem pretty keen on pushing early tyre replacement.
I have company lease cars and it's amazing how little work is found at routine devices etc compared to when it's your own car be sus they know the lease company will say no.
[i]I have company lease cars and it's amazing how little work is found at routine devices etc compared to when it's your own car be sus they know the lease company will say no. [/i]
Yes, but the leasing company also may not care of the vehicle at the end of the leasing period, so does the minimum (cost). A friend of mine worked on commercials, one of the leasing companies they serviced for allowed oil changes on the vans at 50k, but only filters at every 100k...
They all seem pretty keen on pushing early tyre replacement.
to be fair ....anywhere below 4mm is a reasonable time to recomend replacement. 1.6 is a MINIMUM much as the speed limit is a LIMIT - that doesnt mean its ideal.
Independent tests (carried out by the Motor Industry Research Association MIRA in the >UK) showed that tyres with the legal tread depth of 1.6mm had an 80 percent >deterioration in braking performance in comparison with new tyres. Tyres with a tread >depth of 3mm had a 25 per cent better braking performance than those with the minimum >legal tread depth of 1.6mm.
Has anyone worked out what qualification is required to change the oil in a car yet?
does anyone care ?
i change the oil in my car.
Id imagine all thats needed as a garage is an ability to know when you have stripped the sump plug.
Changing the oil is only one part of servicing a vehicle, and can be done by a trained monkey if you wish. Servicing is as much about inspecting the vehicle for any existing or developing problems, which is where training and experience comes in.
Off course you could take the approach of just changing the oil and ignoring everything else until it fails, but then that's not really servicing, that's just changing the oil and hoping.
Thankfully I don't deal with car servicing much, but get the joy of quite a few commercial inspections, where the inspections are legal documents that should anything go wrong, I'd have to explain and justify everything I did or didn't write on the document, which is something most car mechanics will likely never have to do.
I have company lease cars and it's amazing how little work is found at routine devices etc compared to when it's your own car be sus they know the lease company will say no.
The lease company only needs the car to last 3 years (term of the lease) + 2 weeks (time it takes to punt it through a car auction), surely?
Independents can be just as bad. Seat arose needed new discs and pads and I couldn't be arsed so just decided I'd get it done at the garage, but I'd looked up parts cost on euro car parts to get an idea. Parts were under £30 local independent quoted me over £100 for parts plus 2 hours labour. I walked out, I'd noticed on my way out he was only checking euro car parts website for parts prices too.
I ended up doing it at my brothers place with a trolley jack in an hour and a half, book time was an hour I think.
to be fair ....anywhere below 4mm is a reasonable time to recomend replacement. 1.6 is a MINIMUM much as the speed limit is a LIMIT - that doesnt mean its ideal.
For the drivers who don't look at their tyres between services probably well worth flagging front tyres below 4mm as they could be worn out before the next service. Though in the spring I'd probably wait another few months before changing.
I've just replaced all 4. Fronts 2mm rears 4mm. I could have replaced one pair but reckoned if the 4mm tyres were 2/3rds worn I was only saving £40 or so by not running them to 2mm. Chose to have new tyres all 4 corners. Especially as I went for all seasons.
I bought an ex lease three year old Laguna for my wife to commute in, (it was cheap and its done another 60,000 miles in three years with no trouble). I do all my own servicing and this came from a lease company who used one of the fast fit garages to do its servicing.
It still had its original oil filter and pollen filters in place when I came to service it, and it had done 40,000 miles and was supposed to have had three full services! Original pollen filter is one piece in a Laguna, replacements have to be in two pieces to get them in!
Full service history my arse!
The lease company only needs the car to last 3 years (term of the lease) + 2 weeks (time it takes to punt it through a car auction), surely?
We're on four year leases so have them a fair while. My last car went back with 83k on it and only had tyres (lots due to punctures / pot hole damage), two replacement wheels due to buckles and a set of front discs and routine servicing only. I wonder how much more work would have been 'found' if it had been my own car?
New car, had year 1 with the main dealer but it's a bit of a drag to get there and back
Year 2 went back with a warranty problem and decided to get the service done at the same time
Year 3 indy service, about £20 cheaper than the main dealer estimate and fewer miles travelled. He used the proper parts to maintain the warranty
Overall, no problems with either
I bought an ex lease three year old Laguna for my wife to commute in, (it was cheap and its done another 60,000 miles in three years with no trouble). I do all my own servicing and this came from a lease company who used one of the fast fit garages to do its servicing.It still had its original oil filter and pollen filters in place when I came to service it, and it had done 40,000 miles and was supposed to have had three full services! Original pollen filter is one piece in a Laguna, replacements have to be in two pieces to get them in!
Full service history my arse!
All depends. My Mercedes is on a company lease, and it wants for absolutely [i]nothing[/i]. Services bang on schedule, anything that needs replacing is replaced. Whoever gets this in a year's time will get effectively a new car with 25k miles on it. Shame it's sodding uncomfortable otherwise I'd be tempted to buy it off the company having seen the buy-back price Mercedes are giving the lease company.
I can change oil. However I can't change the oil correctly on a PSA 1.6D, diagnose a problem, lift an engine out, strip auxilleries from an engine to get to an issue, own a hydraulic lift in a dry building, fit a new steering rack, repair bent valves, fit new pistons, fit a new gearbox, change a cambelt properly, change a stretched timing chain, etc etc etc.
Trailrat I salute you for being able to do this and more than those skilless mechs.
These mechanics aren't skilless. They save home mechanics when home mechanics flounder.
All depends. My Mercedes is on a company lease, and it wants for absolutely nothing. Services bang on schedule, anything that needs replacing is replaced. Whoever gets this in a year's time will get effectively a new car with 25k miles on it. Shame it's sodding uncomfortable otherwise I'd be tempted to buy it off the company having seen the buy-back price Mercedes are giving the lease company.
Is it main dealer servicing though?
My Mercedes Sprinters were always serviced brilliantly! (By main dealers) 24hr servicing, cleaned and helped out after warranty on an axle issue!
"I can change oil. However I can't change the oil correctly on a PSA 1.6D, diagnose a problem, lift an engine out, strip auxilleries from an engine to get to an issue, own a hydraulic lift in a dry building, fit a new steering rack, repair bent valves, fit new pistons, fit a new gearbox, change a cambelt properly, change a stretched timing chain, etc etc etc."
Are you some sort of woose or something ? 😉
To be clear Im not against the shop floor staff mechanics its their service writers who try and upsell im against.
My mates range rovers just back from town and county in aberdeen ,they put the car up on a ramp and sent him a video clearly detailing the pre condition of the underside of his car - bushes , disks , pads , suspension on his email within an hour of dropping it off.
Was very impressed.
All depends. My Mercedes is on a company lease, and it wants for absolutely nothing.
Same here on my company lease vehicle.
Gets treated very well indeed, serviced by main dealer bang in time.
Every squeak and rattle gets sorted straight away. New bulbs/wipers/tyres etc etc all the time done by dealer.
I would buy it in a heartbeat after 3 years (150k miles+), but it would be pointless as there will be a brand new one waiting for me.
I can change oil. However I can't change the oil correctly on a PSA 1.6D, diagnose a problem, lift an engine out, strip auxilleries from an engine to get to an issue, own a hydraulic lift in a dry building, fit a new steering rack, repair bent valves, fit new pistons, fit a new gearbox, change a cambelt properly, change a stretched timing chain, etc etc etc.
Why would you need to do any of that as part of a service?? Barring the belts and chains...
My Skoda dealer seems pretty good. Bought the service plan off them for my first car, and this one is leased with services and tyres included. They did a chunk of warranty work on my old Yeti including changing the AC condenser that had basically died due to road rash/general wear.
Always get a (nice, clean) courtesy car with fuel in it. My car comes back sorted and stamped. No idea if they do less if you have pre-paid/lease but not sure I care. I guess it's just luck of the draw with dealers. My wife's 08 Honda Jazz is dealer serviced as it's cheaper than the local indy.
@squirrelking 'full FSH' means the history of the car to the present day. That could be <3yr warranty or @7yrs old. Turbos etc might need replacing in this time- or be picked up on during a service. Some people trust a main dealer knows the model. Also they may help out with a contribution or FOC fix if you've stuck to the servicing. That's a side note.
I've experienced this once (saved 1k on a 5yr old mini).
Specialist Indies are good. But strictly to the OP's first post there's a difference between FSH, a good history, comprehensive and part. Sadly on the last word- I experienced this regularly recently when sellers said FSH and it turned out to be 2stamps in 5yrs.
Had my Panda in a t the local Fiat dealer a few weeks ago, they had wanted £246 to replace a wishbone, but I got one from ECP for £42 and as I couldn't get the bolts undone cost £72 for them to fit it.
They also did a health check, and recommended the other one was changed along with the drop link (to be fair I suspected that), but also said discs/pads 90% worn, three tyres needed, a sidelight bulb (£18!), wiper blades.... £680 in total.
Another wishbone, drop link £13, £108 to fit.
I already had a set of pads, fitted them myself, wipers £6.93 off ebay, two tyres £75. Sidelights working fine!
Service and mot today for £150.
Should be ok for another year.
Hora I'm well aware of what FSH is. Show me one service schedule that includes taking the engine out or any of the other things you mentioned (we'll forget about Boxer engines for now).
Full SERVICE history is exactly that, a history of the services performed according to manufacturers instructions and a stamp in the book. What it does not include is any other bits and pieces that may pop up, suspension components and all sorts can be changed and there is no way you would ever know if the receipts weren't included. In short, FSH means bugger all if you drive it like a dick, thrash the arse out of it and then get it fixed up for selling. Just like a clean MOT sheet doesn't tell you anything about the life up to its pre MOT check.
I took my Superb in for it's first service at 17000 miles (on variable service)
It was in March so it was on it's winter tyres/steel wheels/wheel trims
I was told when I picked it up "the rear discs are badly corroded" and gave me an eyewatering suggested cost. I went home, had a look at the disc through the wheel covers and couldn't see any sign of corrosion, pitting or lipping on the discs. I phoned them up "oh, when we took the wheels off it was much more obvious". I pointed out that the zip ties on the wheel covers were exactly as I had left them so the wheels hadn't been taken off. "Oh, I"ll check"she said, came back, admitted they hadn't taken the wheels off after all, but the "technician had seen the back of the disc when on the ramp"
Hmmmm 'I'll leave it for now" I said
When I had the wheels off to change to the summer alloys a few weeks later guess what........ No visisble corrosion, lipping or pitting anywhere inside or outside of the discs.
I pointed out that the zip ties on the wheel covers were exactly as I had left them so the wheels hadn't been taken off.
Lying @?*&s!! What dealer was it? Wasn't anywhere in the est of Scotland was it. Wouldn't want to use them for my Octavia.
My local dealer, West Midlands, not the one I bought it from, but the closest. I won't be getting the next service/first MOT done there
To be fair, I Think it was the service receptionist making assumptions without checking with the person who had actually done the work, but still not good
Not read all of the posts but as someone who "served thier time" in the '70s to C&G Master Craftsman level it does P me off. I worked for a main dealer, Rover, Land Rover, Triumph, Jaguar and Daimler. That all needed and we became VW dealers, the first Polos to be imported. Left that lot to work at a Ford dealer.
Neither of these employers adopted any of these tactics as far as I'm aware.
Customers were informed of any remedial work required. Of it was required during service they were contacted. This in the days before mobile phones or internet 😀
I'm not saying it didn't happen, but certainly not where I worked.
With the evolution of "quick fit centres" it certainly became common "practice" locally 🙄
I hate to defend main dealers, but these guys are ace (and I'm judging this from a background with an apprenticeship at a vehicle manufacturer and worked in automotive R&D for 25 years):
http://www.rigbye.citroen.co.uk/about-us/dealer-team/
Proper family owned, village based dealers. Long established with zero staff turnover so the workshop guys are very experienced and can properly diagnose things (not just random change-and-hope because that is what the fault code reader said). Don't upsell. Don't rip off. If I want to do stuff myself then give discount on OEM spares (but reasonable prices and laziness / lack of time mean I'm letting them do more stuff as I get older). If I'm letting them do it then can drop off from about 07:15 (keys and a check round with one of the bosses not the cleaner) and the same guys are still there at 18:00.
On the one occasion we had a major issue with a vehicle it was sorted swiftly to our satisfaction at a fair compromise price.
The only downside is I'm now loathe to try other manufacturers due to the flesh creep I get on entering regular dealerships.....
My local Audi garage used to get up to every trick in the book usually prefaced with "Audi recommend ..." including changing all 4 tyres as one has some "damage" which when asked they where unable to show. Worst was a manifold vent they said needed replacing £2000+ when we decline they offered a special price of £1300. We took it to an independent who charged £60 to reconnect a fitting which had "come lose". The problem arose a few days after a service I was convinced they'd loosened it. My neighbour had warned me about them and told me to go to a different Audi franchise.
That being said have had faultless main dealer service on our other car over the past 8 years.
Wiper blades, pads and discs - easily inspected yourself. If you are a light braking, planning ahead type they go on forever.
Most places are at it if they change them out. I have had 3 week old wiper blades replaced because they were "smearing" Were they hell!
I now order what needs done as I find it myself and then MOT. I also follow them around underneath the car at inspection with a torch. Always get the work done at a different garage, or MOT at an MOT only place.
My local dealer, West Midlands
Could you be more specific? My mum just got her new skoda from a new place in west mids as the old one stopped selling skoda. Email is in profile if you dont want to go public
Local Honda dealer has been pretty good, however clutch and flywheel needed replacing recentley and they did it on a price match to compete with a very good local indie. I went with the main dealer as they lent me a car, when I paid up the service secretary type lady emphasised how they only made 40 quid out of doing the work and was moaning about it so I-
Reminded her it was her personally that agreed to do it on said price match and then went onto show her a main dealer that sells genuine parts at half the prices they charge, at this point the service manager interviened and looked at my evidence and said thats a trade price, so I call the other dealer in front of them and confirmed the prices were non trade which the other dealer confirmed. Needless to say the service manager looked embarassed and the secretary went quiet very quickly.
Moral of the story they dont get the name stealers for no good reason, local indie for me from now on