If a car you are leasing is a complete pup can you just hand it back? The example I’m thinking of was a Q7 that despite being taken to Germany for diagnosis still had an electrical drain that would flatten the battery in 8 hours. Guy literally had to cary a spare battery wherever he went.
Depends on the age of the car, but there would be various avenues for rejecting it if this was a fault that began fairly early in the lease period. The finance company is ultimately responsible for the quality of the car.
And just for Jekkyl, LING!
It's pretty obvious that leasing isn't for everyone. Look around, there's still website/app called Autotrader and there are car sales places in existence everywhere. Weigh up your options and do what's best for you. No way would I pay to have a shiny new thing sitting on my drive waiting for me to sniff that new car smell on Saturdays and Sundays. Driving for the fun of it simply doesn't exist (down here) anymore, so I'd never do enough mileage. My current car was £10K, but it cost me 5K because I had another car to trade in for it.
Personally, I do 25k miles a year and need a big car, ideally with some grunt for shifting canoes, bikes and kids. A lease for me is easily £4-500 a month, with a couple of £000 down. So a 3 year lease works out at £14-15k, plus tyres and servicing etc.
I can buy a decent car for just under £9k, run it for three years, with a couple of bills, and it is still worth £3k at the end. So the same 3 years cost me under £10k in comparable cost.
Not true. I wanted a big car - I have a car allowance with work & there are certain stipulations as to what & not I can have. I lease a Skoda Superb & it's £280 a month with a 30k a year mileage allowance. Lease co extends the warranty to cover the lease. Don't pay tax, don't do breakdown insurance & had the option of a discounted service plan (plus consumables) of 4 services for £200 in total.
Yes it was right place at right time, but if you arn't desperate for something, there are deals out there.
This car is cheaper to run as an absolute Pence Per Mile than the last 3 privately owned cars I have had (taking into account stuff breaking).
There certainly isn't a right or wrong answer to how you fund/drive your cars however. For me, cars are a tool & it absolutely needs to be as hassle free as possible. Even if this was a more expensive route than my past, I would be doing it.
LING - is it genuine ? Looks distinctly like a dodgy website!
£535 pm for a 5 series estate, with 15k miles, beyond my budget!
LING – is it genuine ?
Oh, it's genuine. And Ling has a STW forum account. Oh man she's hilarious (<- sarcasm)
And if you look on the front page of her website, it has a live feed of her reading STW.
<Waves at Ling>
Quick whats the anti-curse?
It might be worth looking at cars that have a longer warranty than the standard 3 years. After much deliberation I bought a new (to me) truck last night. It's coming up for 3 years old but 2 years of the 5 year 100k warranty remaining. It's depreciated by about £13k on the list price from new. Buying something that's taken the depreciation hit, but still has some warranty might be the best of both worlds. That's if, like me, you don't care about having a shiny new car etc.
I had a new m135i (1 series) on a lease. List price £34k (although on drivethedeal it was substantially less than that at times ~£28k). It cost me approx £8k over 2 years. During that time, I had to pay for the lease, and insurance. No tax, no MOT, no servicing costs (no service due in that time frame), no tyres. It had one problem fixed under warranty and some recall issue. No unexpected costs. Factoring in depreciation, even if I had the cash to buy outright (I did not), I couldn't have run it for that time for less than my £8k.
I now drive a 12 year old 3 series. It cost me £5k about 3 years ago and may be worth about £2k now (I.e. £1k/year in depreciation). It also costs £315 /yr in tax, I've had a set of tyres and I've just spent £700 on MOT/service and replacing some worn suspension components, so it costs at least £2k / year. Unless you're willing to do proper bangernomics and buy 10+ year old cars with 100,000+miles for cheaps, you'll always be losing £x000/yr.
So yes, my 3 series is a bit more economical overall but the difference is not as much as you might think, and the downside is that I'm driving a 12 year old 110,000 mile car with a couple of minor niggles that could potentially go pop or throw up a huge bill at any time. If I actually relied on my car for work I'd have changed it by now.
If you need or want a new car, then leasing is a very cost-effective way of having one, and I'm sure I'll do it again some time.
Where do you find a Skoda Superb with 30k mileage for £280 month?
That seems more like it!.
I now drive a 12 year old 3 series. It cost me £5k about 3 years ago and may be worth about £2k now (I.e. £1k/year in depreciation). It also costs £315 /yr in tax, I’ve had a set of tyres and I’ve just spent £700 on MOT/service and replacing some worn suspension components, so it costs at least £2k / year.
IMHO buying a 9yo car for 5k is exactly where you don't want to be. The perfect storm of highest upfront cost combined with highest maintenance risk.
Leasing only makes sense if you appreciate the benefit of a brand new car. If you are unable to appreciate that, or unwilling to pay the premium associated with it, you are just not going to get it. Buying second hand is always going to be cheaper. Leasing is not for tightwads.
So it can be cheaper to leave a 5 series /A6 than a mondeo? Yes they have higher residuals, but don’t they depreciate at the same % a year, ?
What do you think the difference between residuals and depreciation is?
Where do you find a Skoda Superb with 30k mileage for £280 month?
Probably worth a look
https://www.simpsonsskoda.co.uk/pch-offers/
no servicing costs (no service due in that time frame
Wait, so in 2 years the oil wasn't changed?
Leasing is not for tightwads.
Lol, so if you don't lease you're a tightwad? I hear there's a new dropper post you may be interested in...
Wait, so in 2 years the oil wasn’t changed?
When I leased a Yeti a while back on a 2 year deal that didn't require a service. It was on the 'long life' VW servicing schedule. My deal was 10k mileage per year and I did 19k overall. The service was not due until 22k.....
I did pay for the maintenance option on mine though. It was an extra £13 a month, however I had two punctures during the term both in the sidewalls which needed new tyres. All covered for within the maintenance package. I just rolled up into an ATS garage and they changed it straight away. No problems. For me it was worth it.
What do you think the difference between residuals and depreciation is?
Residual is what the car is worth at the end of the term. Depreciation is the difference between the price paid and what it’s worth down the line. Two different concepts.
We had a look at this a little while ago and were nearly tempted to go for a PCP type deal. Then we sat back and had a think about it and in the cold hard light of day couldn't find any way in which it made sense. But I guess that becomes the mindset of how you think or renting vs buying. For me, yes, you get a lower monthly price but at the end of the 2 or 3 years you have nothing to show for it. NO asset. No car. You are now on the treadmill and the only realistic option at the end of the PCP period is to use whatever equity you have in the car as your deposit for the next PCP deal. Which, for me, means you are now stuck with a monthly outgoing for as long as you want / need a car. At that point we changed minds and went back to taking out a loan and buying a second hand car. In 2 years time my monthly payments will finish and I will still have a car that I can choose to do with what I want. Probably keep it for another year or so before thinking about replacing it. If you are obsessed about having a brand new car and updating it regularly then, sure, PCP represents a reasonably cost effective way to do it but is it really worth it? Yes, for us it would be nice to "nicer" or newer car but for we value the disposable income more than some status symbol car to drive. As it is, the Mondeo (which we went for in the end) is a perfectly capable and comfortable car that we are happy with.
When I leased a Yeti a while back on a 2 year deal that didn’t require a service. It was on the ‘long life’ VW servicing schedule.
ie. the "less cost to the owner" option.
If it was your car would you wait 2 years between oil changes?
Where do you find a Skoda Superb with 30k mileage for £280 month?
Probably worth a look
https://www.simpsonsskoda.co.uk/pch-offers//blockquote >
Mine was with NVC, I think it was a cancelled order as it had a couple of non standard extras (which were actually super useful to me - hidden towbar, etc). I assume they didn't want it sat on their books so it went super cheap, totally right place, right time, but then there was Octavia's recently for sub £100 a month, so always worth a look 🙂
If it was your car would you wait 2 years between oil changes?
Yep, why wouldn't I if that was the intervals?
Maybe I'm just too cynical. Rather convenient intervals that avoid any obligation from the manufacturers to do any maintenance and by the time it becomes an issue it's well out of warranty. I'm extremely sceptical that they have somehow manufactured an engine that can last twice as long between oil changes.
Personally, I'd change the oil once a year regardless of how many miles it's done, there are far too many critical moving parts in there. Preventive maintenance costs far less than reactive.
I've said this already on another thread but my Octavia is an SE Tech which is primarily a fleet car. Because of this, the service interval is two years. If it was an SE with the same engine, the interval would be one year. So either they are ripping off personal customers with unnecessary servicing, or they just don't care if fleet cars engines are knackered when it comes to selling them on.
trail_rat
Member
Mot really isn’t that scary a prospect.
It’s a minimum standard which really is minimum.
Your car can pass an mot and still be a raft.
But then I do think people generally get their pants pulled down by using shit garages . Like a good lbs a good relationship with the garage is a must
That depends on the car, Kangoos had something like 40% failure rate on their first MOT.
Personally, I’d change the oil once a year regardless of how many miles it’s done, there are far too many critical moving parts in there. Preventive maintenance costs far less than reactive.
...and throwing away perfectly good oil that’s less than half way through it’s intended life costs far more than..... not doing that 👍
So either they are ripping off personal customers with unnecessary servicing, or they just don’t care if fleet cars engines are knackered when it comes to selling them on.
More the second, driven by the fact that if they specify more frequent changes, the service cost will mean the fleet buyers won't touch them. Vauxhall used to do the same with timing belt changes.
Octavia’s recently for sub £100 a month, so always worth a look
Plus £2450 down, plus fees, and that's for 8k miles a year.
Let's be generous - monthly might be double (?) for the 20-30k miles a year. For two years. Plus deposit.
So we're back up at monthly amortised of £300?
Residual is what the car is worth at the end of the term. Depreciation is the difference between the price paid and what it’s worth down the line. Two different concepts.
Yeah, they really aren’t.
That depends on the car, Kangoos had something like 40% failure rate on their first MOT.
Berlingo’s even worse, I believe
…and throwing away perfectly good oil that’s less than half way through it’s intended life costs far more than…..
Oil is oil. What's the difference between richardkennerley's SE Tech and a normal SE? Same block, same oil, different service schedule? Every schedule on every car I've ever owned has been X miles or every year, whichever comes first. Oil standards haven't changed that much, if at all so it's not the oil that's different. The blocks are the same so what's left?
FWIW I'm an engineer by trade and there's no way I'd run a car for 2 years on the same oil and expect it to end well. Maybe not immediately but eventually I'd fully expect to see significant wear.
Maybe I’m just too cynical. Rather convenient intervals that avoid any obligation from the manufacturers to do any maintenance and by the time it becomes an issue it’s well out of warranty. I’m extremely sceptical that they have somehow manufactured an engine that can last twice as long between oil changes.
You're quite right, albeit for slightly wrong reasons. Manufacturers need to appeal to company car buyers and lease schemes since that's where they sell the majority of their cars. If they can minimise the early (first 3 years) service intervals they minimise the cost to those customers at the potential expense of the longer term life of the product.
If it was my own car I'd do an oil change each year but it's not and there's no incentive to do any sort of preventative maintenance outside of the letter of the lease agreement.
Doing the maths on the 2nd hand option..
10k will buy you (looking at autotrader) a 5 year old octavia estate with 50,000 miles on it. After you run it for 4 years, you have a 9 year old car with 110,000 miles, worth (again quick glance) around £3k. So you're 3k 'up' - but a lot of that is eaten away - a high milage, second hand car probably costs £40 a month more to run than a new one (in fuel, repairs, tax, etc), plus financing 10k over 4 years (average of £5k @ 2.5% interest, assuming you had the cash in savings) is another £500 - so you're down to £500 'up'
Is it worth £2 a week to have a new car over an old one? Up to you..
This comes around every few months on here & effectively boils down to personal choice. Some people value a nice new car on the drive every few years, others don't.
Examples like that Octavia estate above are pretty meaningless as there are so many ways of swinging it in favour of the point you are trying to make....
For example....my previous car was bought for £7500 cash at 3yrs old & 24k miles on the clock. I kept it for almost 10 years & put 250k miles on it and sold it for £400. So, the car cost me the equivalent of £60/month.
During that time, I put away around £150/month to cover insurance (incl. breakdown), tax, MOT & servicing. There was only one occasion I had to dip into other savings and that was £500 for a new a/c compressor at around 180k miles.
So in total the car cost me £210/month including all costs apart from fuel and the occasional air freshener.
When I first got the car my annual mileage was around 25k miles. It then went up to 34k miles & by the time I got rid it was back down to 25k miles. Last time I looked for lease deals that covered 25k miles with all maintenance included they were around £400/month at least. So, leasing over that 10 yr period would have cost me ~£180/month more - or £21,600.
But.....I fully accept that I was driving around in an old, out of date car and it almost became a badge of honour to see how many miles I could get on it, before deciding enough was enough. It still ran fine when I got rid of it, but the arrival of our daughter meant I had to swap it for something larger.
The only 'gadget' that I felt like that car would have been handy to have was bluetooth connectivity, particularly for music streaming, but that could have been solved with a new head unit, I suppose.
Decent Karoq deal:
And another
OK, first Karoq is £5300 or £220 a month - pretty good, but still only 10k miles.
As said - leasing is a cheap way to get regular new cars. It's NOT a cheap way to get around.
The only ‘gadget’ that I felt like that car would have been handy to have was bluetooth connectivity, particularly for music streaming, but that could have been solved with a new head unit, I suppose.
Or a widget from Amazon for £9
OK, first Karoq is £5300 or £220 a month – pretty good, but still only 10k miles.
If you got a main dealer to match that then you usually pay 3ppm extra. Certainly on the skoda deals I've had.
I’ve PCP a car for work for the past 6 years, always a 3 year deal and always go back to the dealer to swap after 18mths. Mileage is irrelevant as they never reach the end of the deal, tbh handing a car back on pcp should never be done you are better off buying it at the end of the deal if you keep it they long.
The cars we take are always 6m - 18m old. We’ve had the best deals on C class Mercs doing this. The current one was £2000 down which was equity in the old one and £220 a month over 3 years. At end of 3 years I pay £10000 to buy it if I want, tbh it’ll be worth that as a well looked after car.
The age of the car helps as a lot of depreciation has been done compared to a new car.
Seat Leon Leon Hatchback 1.5 TSI EVO SE Dynamic (EZ) 5dr 24mo lease deal £4595.76
Chunky deposit of £2000 but monthly cost £84 a month.
Total cost around £44 a week.
I bet some 'bangers' cost more than that in fuel inefficiency a month.
Here is a low deposit version.
Anyone fallen foul of the over mileage on PCP deals?
Ie: 4000 @ 7ppm (etc)
And if so what was the dealers response?
Ta
The other thing that's worth mentioning, particularly if you're thinking of buying a 2-3 year old used car, is that for most cars it's very easy to clock the mileage so it falls within the terms of the lease deal. So doing 30k miles/year is no problem, you just clock it so it looks as though it's only done 5k/year... Hey presto, get a cheap lease and have the freedom to do all the miles you need.
Whilst I would never do this, it's easy and cheap so I bet loads of people do.
Depends if one's a criminal or not.
And when the wear and tear doesn't match the mileage ...
I thought cars were harder to clock these days? Or more accurately you can still easily alter the mileage on the display, but the real mileage is held in various computers throughout the car, so a dealer can easily verify if the displayed mileage matches the mileage stored in other systems within the car.
I bet some ‘bangers’ cost more than that in fuel inefficiency a month.
You raise a good point.
For me, one of the real costs of cars now is the routine servicing and maintenance, let alone 'premature' failures.
Mpg is an issue, but less so imo, as we all know the difference between claimed mpg, dash readout mpg and reality...
I bet some ‘bangers’ cost more than that in fuel inefficiency a month.
in comparison to a BMW 540i maybe