6 up front + £600 a month over 36 months = £25,200
Ok, that is for only 8k miles a year but ok if your mileage is that low.
So after 3 years you would have still lost £25k.
LHS, you do really need to add in the costs of maintaining a 3 year old M5.
Not as much as you think. I have run 3 year old M5s, RS6's and even a GT3 and it still costs a lot less than leasing.
As i said, each to their own, if you have a hardon for a brand new car then great, just IMPO you are throwing away £25k. I couldn't bring myself to throw £25k in the toilet every 3 years. That's almost £500k over a lifetime!!
So after 3 years you would have still lost £25k.
How much is a 6 year old M5 worth?
(btw, I bought my car at 3 years old because it seemed to be the best balance...but i'm just not sure that the difference in cost between buying/leasing is as vast as you suggest)
Subtle brag. Like it.
😀
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/business/car-contract-hire-and-leasing/bmw/m5/6 up front + £600 a month over 36 months = £25,200
And it's brand new, not three years old.
Work that out
Just realised the link you sent was for business leasing and not personal! Most people on here are talking personal leasing. that makes quite a big difference and is back up to the £35k i was referring to.
So £35k every 3 years - £600k over lifetime.
Subtle brag. Like it.
I can't remember who it was, but there was a watch thread on here a while back and someone posted a close up of them wearing their expensive watch...with the RS6 badge on the grill of their car carefully placed in the photo too. I died a little bit inside 🙂
Just realised the link you sent was for business leasing and not personal! Most people on here are talking personal leasing. that makes quite a big difference and is back up to the £35k i was referring to.
The key with leasing is to pick whatever vehicle is currently being offered at a price that beats depreciation (or at least gets close to it). Like the M135i deals for example. I think picking random cars will always be expensive.
I can't imagine any situation where leasing will be cheaper than buying smartly.
Me neither. For a start, don't buy new, buy nearly new. 1-3 years old, let someone else pay the depreciation.
Warranty? WGAS when you're saving £10k on the purchase price?
Then keep the car a long time. 6-10 years or so, you can then afford to throw it away and buy another. I'm talking £1000 a year to own a decent car.
I did similar with my motorbike - Needed something different and it was £2400 (Including some extras) to change. That was an 8 month old bike with £1700 off RRP. It had just been fully serviced, tyres, pads, chain/sprockets too. I lumped it all on a 24 month 0% balance transfer card and I'm paying £100/month off.
But if I want/need to I can sell it, pay off the card and have money in my pocket. Try that on hire/PCP finance....
🙂
But if I want/need to I can sell it, pay off the card and have money in my pocket. Try that on hire/PCP finance....
Why can't you do that on PCP?
I'm doing it. Just into my 3rd year of a 3 year lease. To be honest the novelty of having a brand new car wore off pretty quickly. I get a car allowance from work even though I don't drive to or for work. It's just a perk. The only places I ever drive are for biking and I had an old cheap Daewoo people carrier previously that was used for hauling bikes around. It wasn't the sexiest car ever but in hindsight it was perfect for what I actually use it for. Although having a new car is nice, I live in constant fear of scratching it, denting it, getting it muddy etc and then getting shafted when I hand it back.
I'm in the market for a van just now and I'm going to hand the lease car back early. The wife has a company car too so she can provide the "nice" car for non bike related stuff. I've never been bothered about not owning the car. The way I see it my employer gives me free (taxed) money on top of my salary so this is just a frivolous purchase. I'm under no obligation to actually spend the money on a car.
That's a fair comment BB. I need a car for my job, which tends to be all over the country. Not unusual to do 1000 miles a month business miles. So I guess it depends why you want/need a car. I'm also very aware that I don't want to turn up in a flash car looking like the dick whose charging you a high day rate and spending it on toys. Old place I was working, one of the contractors insisted on parking his very expensing (AMG I think) Merc next to the MD's jag 😉
Leasing is a good (not perfect) option if you need a car at a fixed price for a fixed term and with as little worry as possible that there will be problems with it. YMMV etc 😉
So... what good deals are around at the moment?
Not unusual to do 1000 miles a month business miles.
Lightweight. Get closer to 1000 miles a week and very few lease deals will work.
My last 2 cars I've bought 3 years old and very low mileage, for pennies. Ran them until 5 years old and 100,000 miles-ish. Despite that they are still worth something, well maitained, full history etc.
My last motor cost me £3000 (Purchase price minus selling price) over 2 years to buy, and I got 25p per mile for 80,000 miles. Not taxable.
I'm not leasing any time soon.
I've considered leasing my personal car on a couple of occassions but alway found the maths of owning made more sense as I'm prepared to buy a car 2-3 years old & maintain it & also keep it for 4-5 years.
I owned my last BMW 320d M Sport for 64 Months, Its depreciated £190 per month & cost me a total of £240 per month to run excluding fuel & insurance obviously. I couldnt find the same car for 12-14k mileage allowance on lease anywhere near that price.
Owning is only ever temporary anyway in most cases.
You usually p/x or sell at some point with losses to deal with and capital to find. Leasing and PCP you are dealing with deprecation as part of a monthly cost.
Tell you what though, it's making me want an M5 😈
@SC- I used to do a lot more. But now all my clients are pretty local (50 miles ish) or I take the train if it's London. Accountant reckons after 15,000 miles per year, leasing gets a lot less attractive.
You see I don't want an M5. Because I know what I'm like. And it'd all end up in a hedge. I'm assuming the new Yeti will come with driving gloves and some kind of hat 😉
Owning is only ever temporary anyway in most cases.
+1
This is what I don't get.
Renting v buying a house (ie an appreciating asset) - the financial advantages of buying are obvious. After 25 years renting you own nothing and have spend loads. After 25 years paying a mortgage you spent loads but own something that's (hopefully) worth more than you spent.
Renting v buying a car (ie a depreciating asset) - After 3 years of renting a car, you've spent loads and own nothing. After 3 years of buying a car you spent loads and own something worth much less than you bought it for...and it continues to go that way until it's worth nothing at all. Most people will generally sell below this point, so the cost is bought price less sale price. It all costs you loads of money, it's just a question of how much.
But I guess if you set a limit (say £250 a month loan, raising by 3% each year to allow for inflation) and bought the cheapest car you could then traded it in every three years to get a slightly better car you would eventually be in an M5. And by replacing every three years you should have mainly cost-free (apart from servicing etc obviously) motoring as any problems should be fixed under warranty.
So... what good deals are around at the moment?
I went with Ling's cars. She was impossible to beat. The site's a riot visually but it works and everything's up front with no hidden extra costs
Is she the best value? I equally love and hate the website!
You all need to stop buying cars that deprecate.
You all need to stop buying [s]cars[/s] [s]bikes[/s] anything that deprecates.
I went with Ling's cars
I just clicked the link, now I'm typing through my own vomit, thanks for that!
I'm with Peter Poddy:
don't buy new, buy nearly new. 1-3 years old, let someone else pay the depreciation.
Warranty? WGAS when you're saving £10k on the purchase price?
Then keep the car a long time. 6-10 years or so, you can then afford to throw it away and buy another. I'm talking £1000 a year to own a decent car.
I just want a reliable, reasonably economical big bus that'll happily munch 20K miles a year and I don't want to be worried about cost of carpark damage.
I'm not remotely bothered about owning the thing or not.
Hoping my 18 month old Mundane-o estate should work out at about £100 per month over it's expected lifetime (depreciation, repairs and consumables)
I'd happily pay a bit more for a lease... maybe at as much as £150/month I'd still be "in" (after amortising deposit and damage fees) but I can't find a lease at that 🙁 so I buy (hopefully wisely)
You all need to stop buying cars that deprecate
Unfortunately my car allowance doesn't stretch to a Ferrari Dino...
Ive never understood how these can be good value.
The lease company still buys the car, factors in the deprecation, cost of running it and etc etc. It then adds profit and the cost of finance which are usually higher than you could ever get on savings.
So how does this work out cheaper than just buying the car? I understand it removes risk and makes financial planning easier. It might be because I never buy new cars, alwasy about 3 year olds.
The lease company still buys the car, factors in the deprecation, cost of running it and etc etc. It then adds profit and the cost of finance which are usually higher than you could ever get on savings.So how does this work out cheaper than just buying the car? I understand it removes risk and makes financial planning easier. It might be because I never buy new cars, alwasy about 3 year olds.
If you never buy new cars then it's irrelevant. You have to compare like with like.
The reason some can beat depreciation is because of a combination of strong perceived residual value and huge discounts. Look at the leases that were offered on the Golf R. £30k car for £150 a month. Much of this was because of the huge value put on the car at the end of the lease term.
Ok I'll add more details on the ones I've had.
I'm on 6th now all have had 15k mileage allowance so why are people claiming it's for low mileage only? I have a salary sacrifice too so get savings there, what 3 to 6 month deposit is that then I've never pain one. All have gone back with no further cost to me, any damage has been seen as fair wear and tear. Last one the garage checking it over tried it on, they made marks looks far worse than they were by washing it, T cutting then polishing but without removing the polish. They sent a £400 bill for the cost of the repairs that if I really wanted them done would of been less than £150. They didn't concentrate very well as the signed paperwork for the inspection on sending it back nulled me of this cost so they had to pay.
Why would I be leasing a 3 year old M5? Cars like that are expensive on a lease for a reason, family cars are cheap.
Golf GTD on 2 year lease with 15k no deposit is looking at about £265 for me just now so that's £6360 including all service costs, tyres, parts and insurance. Far cheaper than you'd for proclaimed 3 year old one.
They also buy 1000's of cars a year, more discount may be offered to them than you buying one car via a dealership. They also are rather good at picking up excess stock, helping out sales figures etc. This all means they are usually buying at well below list price.
I did a quick calculation for the basic 5 door Golf which is what we're planning on getting. It costs £21,670 new. PCP over 3 years costs a shade over £16,000. I'd then hand it back.
A 3 year old 1.6 Golf with 30k miles on it goes for around 12000 on Autotrader. If I were able to sell it on for that much then I'd be looking at a loss of £9670.
Seems I'd save £7000 just buying brand new and taking the depreciation? Or am I missing something here?
I did a quick calculation for the basic 5 door Golf which is what we're planning on getting. It costs £21,670 new. PCP over 3 years costs a shade over £16,000. I'd then hand it back.
£444 a month for a Golf??? 😯
When I got my M5 the lease price was £550+VAT so total cost over 2 years is £19,140.00 inc VAT. The list price was £75k and at the time, you could get roughly a 12% discount off list price so that would've made the buy price £63k ish. If you didn't want to lease, you could either pay cash, traditional finance or PCP. PCP is the closest comparison to leasing but the deposit needed was double and the monthly payment £150 more. 2 year old M5s are selling for £45k ish at main dealers, so the PX figure would be more like £40k so a £23k depreciation plus interest on the monthlies making the total cost closer to £30k.
Obviously no-one 'needs' a brand new M5, but if it's affordable and works out significantly cheaper to lease then why not?
curiousyellow - Member
I did a quick calculation for the basic 5 door Golf which is what we're planning on getting. It costs £21,670 new. PCP over 3 years costs a shade over £16,000. I'd then hand it back.A 3 year old 1.6 Golf with 30k miles on it goes for around 12000 on Autotrader. If I were able to sell it on for that much then I'd be looking at a loss of £9670.
Seems I'd save £7000 just buying brand new and taking the depreciation? Or am I missing something here?
No, that is a very bad value finance deal! My wife has got a new Golf R 5 door which is £220 per month on a lease so total cost over 2 years is only £6380 (inc VAT). That is for a £31k list price car.
Thought I'd get a quote for the M5 just for comparison. £1200 per month for 3 years 😯
Drac - Moderator
Thought I'd get a quote for the M5 just for comparison. £1200 per month for 3 years
Yes the deals of 12-18 months ago were very good!
I used the Volkswagen website to come up with that figure using PCP which I think the OP was referring to?
Deposit: £2167
Acceptance fee: £125
36 x £382.14 monthly payments.
Interest rate was 7.3% APR.
I used the Volkswagen website to come up with that figure using PCP which I think the OP was referring to?
With our lease company for basic Gold Diesel 5 Dr it's £231.24 for 36 months.
Deposit: £2167
Acceptance fee: £125
36 x £382.14 monthly payments.Interest rate was 7.3% APR
So the total payable over 3 years is £16,049
Looking at Ling's site, if I sort by price, the cheapest three year lease on a Golf with a reasonable 15k allowance per year is
Deposit: £755.22
Payments: 35 x £251.74
Total payable = £9,566.12
40% cheaper to lease over 3 years albeit you don't own the "asset" at the end of the period.
Yes the deals of 12-18 months ago were very good!
Deals like these (and the Golf R and BMW M135i referred to elsewhere in this thread) tend to come about every now and again because of a number of other factors.
Leaving affordability out of it, it's often a case of "right place, right time" to take advantage of them.
I've only ever bought with cash/HP/PCP in the past but am increasingly drawn to leasing the next car. At the very least, unless buying for cash (which will be going into a house extension), I'll compare any dealer offered HP and PCP deal against what a lease will give me (comparing apples and apples as closely as possible).
The key is to consider what you know/expect the total cost of ownership to be over the proposed period of "ownership".
My only fear, like others, is condition on return. But that's true of PCP and effectively is the same when you come to sell a car you own. My trouble is I don't look after the things very well - they're usually caked in mud and filth for months at a time in the winter and spattered with flies in summer.
IMO, if you are going to lease on the cheap look out for good offers, not a specific model.
My old boss(es) at the outdoor centre had three cars on lease - all of them went with 'good offers' - one was called mid-way through a lease on a Ford Focus 1.6 basic model and offered £100 a month less for new Focus 2.0Tdci Titanium X for the remainder of the contract - but he had no choice of colours etc, as it was pre-registered. So he drove a cheap, new car of much plushness in wonky red colour...
As for lease companies making money, you need to remember the volumes they deal with. These give access to purchase discounts, incentive payments (same as car dealers get), and reduced finance rates.
I have no idea what gross margin the manufacturers work to, but they must be like every other industry which eats its own lunch from time to time to drive revenue, volume, market share etc.
Leasing companies deal in huge volumes. Local dealers often less so. But they're all in the same business: they make money on your money. The cars themselves are just a means to an end for everybody!
Drac - ModeratorOk I'll add more details on the ones I've had.
I'm on 6th now all have had 15k mileage allowance so why are people claiming it's for low mileage only?
I mentioned low mileage deals that I have seen being an issue as 15k mileage to me is still low mileage. My commute is 18.5k for the year (46 weeks at 400 miles/week). In total I do about 25k miles/yr.
Whenever I have looked at a lease website and put in 25k/yr allowance the cost shoots up.
There may be better deals about, but I've just clicked on the first personal car lease page that came up and chose a 2 litre Leon FR estate (the 150bhp one, not the whizzy 184bhp version) with 25k miles allowance, maintenance package & 3 month initial payment (whatever that means, but that was the min I could select) and it came to £440/month. With no options selected.
Golf it just said 'call us' and wouldn't give an online quote.
One site I found that would quote for a Golf was £466/month for 20k miles and £523/month for 30k miles. There wasn't a 25k option on the website.
A3 hatchback 2 litre S line with the same parameters as the Leon - £480/month
stumpy01 - MemberGolf it just said 'call us' and wouldn't give an online quote.
One site I found that would quote for a Golf was £466/month for 20k miles and £523/month for 30k miles. There wasn't a 25k option on the website.
Don't forget you can do a low contract mileage and just pay the extra at the end. If my wife did 25K per annum in her R then the excess would be 17,000 x 7.2 p which is £1224 per year or £102 a month, making the total cost £350 per month. If maintenance is included then there is often an excess charge for this too (as she only does 8k miles per annum her's isn't maintained)
So that factors are here:
Who you lease from.
What you lease as sporty cars add high tax on a salary sacrifice lease.
Unsurprisingly mileage, 10k is low for me but now 15k seems low too for some.
Manufacturer, some offer bigger discounts for bulk orders, they lose less so cost the lease company less so it's often worth looking at a VAG, MERC or another.
So the total payable over 3 years is £16,049Looking at Ling's site, if I sort by price, the cheapest three year lease on a Golf with a reasonable 15k allowance per year is
Deposit: £755.22
Payments: 35 x £251.74
Total payable = £9,566.1240% cheaper to lease over 3 years albeit you don't own the "asset" at the end of the period.
I could only find a 4 year deal on the site?
There's a document fee of £180 as well. So the total cost for a cheap MOT + document fee + (50 x 220.56) means you're paying £11,238 for the car over 4 years. I'm assuming you're also responsible for any replacements it'll need after the 3 year mark?
It does sound pretty decent if it's over 3 years though, I must admit.
There may be better deals about, but I've just clicked on the first personal car lease page that came up and chose a 2 litre Leon FR estate (the 150bhp one, not the whizzy 184bhp version) with 25k miles allowance, maintenance package & 3 month initial payment (whatever that means, but that was the min I could select) and it came to £440/month. With no options selected.
£291 per month all in with no deposit and 25k per annum mileage.
