[Closed] Car drivers - what is your problem?

I don't have a problem with organ donors TBH.
I think its very easy for people who have no understanding of the performance of a bike (or a properly fast car for that matter) to percieve things like overtakes as dangerous.

If I'm on A or B road and a fast bike catches me I normally indicate to the left to let them know to overtake me (this is normally appreciated)

As for filtering I honestly couldn't care less, I'll move over if there is room, i'd do the same for a push bike.

Wheelies while undoubtedly cool are pretty stupid on the public road though.

Weeksy, Flow. Do you have any idea how rediculous you are both making yourselves look?
Actually, you are both SurfMat and I claim my £5.

I know, but I don't care to be honest. Its just an internet forum, its not real life!

its not real life!

😯 Nooooooooo......!!!!!

It is real life. Its just real life with stabilisers on.

Car vs motocycles on STW = dogs owners vs non dog owners on STW. 🙄

Oddly the people who are pro bikes / dogs are the ones that are coming out of these threads looking like morons (not all but the more "vocal" ones).

This one still running?

Once again another depressing thread demonstrating just how many drivers who think they are 'awesome' are sadly far from it.

Interestingly enough there's been some new case law recently on exactly this subject. Previously riders injured in filtering collisions have been able to claim 100% compensation, even if speeds and differential speeds were high (up to 50mph in one case).

However, a couple of weeks back a new case was reported on appeal where because of the high speed, the rider was held 80% liable with the car driver held only 20% liable.

Each case will still need to be considered on it's merits but this sets a new precedent.

BURTON v EVITT (2011)

CA (Civ Div) (Sir Anthony May (President QBD), Black LJ, Kitchin LJ) 18/10/2011

PERSONAL INJURY - ROAD TRAFFIC

APPORTIONMENT : DRIVERS : MOTORCYCLES : ROAD TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS : APPORTIONMENT OF LIABILITY : INABILITY OF DRIVER TO SEE BEHIND VEHICLE WHEN DRIVING

A driver was found to be 20 per cent liable for a road traffic accident caused when he turned whilst being unable to see an approaching motorcycle being driven quickly and overtaking other vehicles. Where a driver was unable to see what was behind him it was necessary for him to inch out to gain a better view.

The appellant (E) appealed against a decision that he had been negligent and was one-third responsible for a road traffic accident involving E and the respondent (B). E was driving his car at the front of a queue of traffic. He slowed down, looked in his mirror and saw nothing except a larger vehicle behind him. E, when almost at a standstill, then started to turn right into a car park. The driver of the vehicle behind E then saw a motorcycle, driven by B, at the corner of his vehicle, overtaking. B drove forwards, collided with E's car and sustained severe injuries. At trial the judge found that B was driving at an unsafe speed and in such a way that he could not deal with an emergency and so was negligent. However, it was also found that it was E's duty to move his car closer to, and perhaps over, the centre of the line in the road so that, using his wing mirror, he could have seen B approaching and that E's failure to do so meant that he was causatively responsible for the accident. It was found that B was two-thirds responsible and E one-third responsible for the accident. E submitted that although any driver should have been aware of any other driver overtaking on the outside, he had slowed down and checked just before he turned and, to require more, was a counsel of perfection.

HELD: (1) It was common ground that in driving along such a road, there was a need to be particularly aware of the presence of motorcycles and that they might overtake lines of cars. E initially acted with considerable care but, when crawling, he could not see what might be coming up on the offside. As the size of the vehicle behind E's car meant that E could not see clearly, he should have inched out. Where a driver could not see what was behind him, he had to take that step. E's appeal in respect of negligence was therefore unsuccessful. (2) B's negligence was of a very high order and contributed to what happened. The issue of blameworthiness of E and B required greater analysis than it received. Proper apportionment had to take into account the different negligence issues in respect of E and B. It was appropriate to set aside the trial judge's apportionment and replace it with apportionment that B was 80 per cent and E 20 per cent liable.

Appeal allowed in part

I ride a bike with gears and one with one, a motorbike, drive a car, and own a dog that poops in parks, which I remove to poop bins in little plastic bags.

My point?

[url= http://www.chamonet.com/whats_new_article.php?id_whats_new=7013 ]Not all of us are £o$$ers[/url]

Car vs motocycles on STW = dogs owners vs non dog owners on STW.

Oddly the people who are pro bikes / dogs are the ones that are coming out of these threads looking like morons (not all but the more "vocal" ones).

Nope, you just take life, or in this case the internet (which probably is your life), too seriously.

Err, no. I was trying to point out that "these threads" always turn out the same way.
flow, when you're old enough to actually have a life let me know and i'll have a sensible debate with you. In the meantime, do carry on as you were.....

I struggle with long sentences. I will say though that car drivers were always a million percent more courteous and generally well mannered when I was on my huge, loud and slow Kawasaki Drifter than when I was on my tiny, loud and reasonably quick Kawasaki GPZ600R. Maybe it's just a Daily Mail-esque reaction to sports bikes?

Err, no. I was trying to point out that "these threads" always turn out the same way.
flow, when you're old enough to actually have a life let me know and i'll have a sensible debate with you. In the meantime, do carry on as you were.....

Debates have rules?

[i]I will say though that car drivers were always a million percent more courteous and generally well mannered when I was on my huge, loud and slow Kawasaki Drifter than when I was on my tiny, loud and reasonably quick Kawasaki [/i]

The clue is [i]loud[/i], they actually knew you were there.

flow - Member
Debates have rules?

I always move over for bikers. Out of the 5 or 6 lads at work that ride motorbikes all but one ride like complete tools. Where as out of all the lads that drive cars only one is a complete tool! The no`s speak for themselves your mostly all nutters. 40 something born again bikers are the worst.

The no`s speak for themselves

Can't argue with that with such a large sample size. That's nearly half a dozen in old money!

I love motorcyclists. I want to think it's OK to sit a foot away from the back of a car and still have a good chance of stopping, I also like the idea of no speed limits. 90% of riders I come across ride like this but the other 10% ride well, mostly not tossers on sports bikes.

I'm glad that I don't own one anymore 🙂

Yeah my biggest problem with a motorcyclist came on the A59 side of Skipton - same idiots I assume. Wheelie-ing as they overtook me going up a hill with a blind summit, only to meet a car coming on the opposite direction and having to drop it and swerve in right in front of me. Muppet

Come on Couger, people who buy sports bikes buy them for the speed thrill, fast acceleration. I have no problem with that as long as I don,t have to have radar to tell how fast they are bearing down on me. Have I got time to pull out or are they going to rear end me at 140mph. The speed differential is the biggest problem for car drivers to judge. Unfortunately a biker will usually come off worse than a driver and that is not something any road user wants. How many times when moving in slow traffic on a dual carriageway have you thought about changing lane, you know where all the cars around you are then out of nowhere a biker speeds through inbetween the cars and you think thank god I didnt pull across. Who would be at fault there?

the car driver for not checking it was clear.

Mirror indicate manoeuvre

Oh give it a rest tj. How can you defend someone doing a wheelie on a dual carriageway at speed. What are the consequences if he got it wrong, poor motorist going right over the top of him?

TJ, so obvious a troll that it's not even worth responding
Yet I did
Bugger

bigyin where did I defend doing a wheelie on the road? 🙄 the point being that despite the posters hysterics about it nothing went wrong. Merely pointing out that the hysterical tone that MF and a bunch of others uses to discuss motorcycles so closely mimics the hysterical tone that ramblers use about cyclists.

MF has loads of previous of being hysterical about motorcycles when actually he clearly has no idea of the capabilities at all. Same as the ramblers who moan about mountainbikers

Inbred456 - Member

How many times when moving in slow traffic on a dual carriageway have you thought about changing lane, you know where all the cars around you are then out of nowhere a biker speeds through inbetween the cars and you think thank god I didnt pull across. Who would be at fault there?

Never happened to me, I look and I signal, like you're supposed to, before I move. Because y'know what- there might be a bike there. Engined or otherwise.

Still, in this thread I imagine it'd be perfectly all right to pull out into a motorcyclist- just not a cyclist 😉

No I don't TJ - I have discussed TWO cases of stupid motorcycling on here - the above mentioned one (which we had a spat over months ago) and the other where a friend (riding a big Jap bike) was 'overtaken' at a junction by a clown who thought it safe to do so - pulling onto a busy road and making my friend take avoiding actions (again you chose to defend the dangerous riding).

So its up to me to make sure i'm not being undertaken by a motor bike at speed down the middle of the road. Hmmm you may be right, still i'm in a car so i'll be allright. If only we could all be as good as you TJ. Motor bikes are incredibly hard to see on the near side when they are weaving through traffic. Mirror signal manouver is not fast enough when a bike is coming through. Maybe we should change the law and just give motorbikes right of way regardless.

TandemJeremy - Member

the point being that despite the posters hysterics about it nothing went wrong.

Nothing went wrong but are you really going to say it couldn't have done? Wheelies and similiar on the road are always iffy but combined with a tight overtake approaching a blind summit? I wouldn't defend that.

Inbred456 - Member

So its up to me to make sure i'm not being undertaken by a motor bike at speed down the middle of the road. Hmmm you may be right, still i'm in a car so i'll be allright.

Yes, of course it is. Or a pushbike for that matter. Or anything else. Mirror, signal, maneuvre, it's pretty much the absolute most basic thing all drivers are supposed to know.

As for being alright, wouldn't want to be you in court when you say "How was I supposed to know there was a bike there? Look in my mirrors or something? Come on now, that's mad. Indicate? Why?"

No MF - you have done it more than that - several more occasions and you are hysterical about motorcycles anytime you mention them.

Its exactly the same as the way the ramblers go on about MTBers

"frightened me too close too fast don't obey the law"

Northwind - I didn't defend it

so actually perfectly in control and no risk to anyone else?

Looks like defending it to me 🙄

Have I TJ? Show me these occasions then.

MF - you did. Maybe you have forgotton. One was a rant about a biker daring to overtake you in traffic and startling you with how fast he went. his fault that you were not watching your mirrors and didn't see him apoparantly

Crispo - where did I defend it? I didn't say it was safe or acceptable - I just pointed out that actually the rider controlled the vehicle and didn't put anyone at risk. which is true

so actually perfectly in control and no risk to anyone else?

Definitely defending

Do you guys understand language? Show one word that defends his actions.

An alternative interpretation is not defending him is it? 🙄

Reads like defending to me

TJ - that was the above-mentioned example and it startled my passenger not me. Next?

No risk to anyone kind of implies it was safe no?

Well MF if it was the same incident its a very different story NO wheelie mentioned for starters and no oncoming car or blind summit. Just a bike overtaking you at speeds well in excess of 100 mph and no mention of braking in front of you. so actually a different story. If its the same incident then you really do like to embellish a story to fit your rant of the day

there are others as well MF - you have forgotten them it would appear

you really do get very hysterical about bikes just like a rambler about mountainbikes

Find that thread TJ - I have changed nothing at all - and I never mentioned speeds at the time either. I am 100% confident that what I stated above is a fair description of what happened and matches what I said in the original thread. Unfortunately you often don't read what is said, instead preferring to read what you want to believe.

Pot kettle and black MF

What you put in the thread above is nothing like the earlier incident you described.

Come on Couger, people who buy sports bikes buy them for the speed thrill, fast acceleration.

CougAr. And yes, some do. Most even, perhaps. What you're overlooking is, [i]this does not mean everyone on two wheels speeds inappropriately everywhere.[/i] Oddly, the ones who draw attention to themselves are the ones who draw attention to themselves.

Have I got time to pull out or are they going to rear end me at 140mph.

If you genuinely can't judge speeds, you can get refresher lessons. I know bikes are smaller than cars, so it's more difficult. Shouldn't cost you too much, and they might throw in a copy of the Highway Code if you ask them nicely.

How many times when moving in slow traffic on a dual carriageway have you thought about changing lane, you know where all the cars around you are then out of nowhere a biker speeds through inbetween the cars and you think thank god I didnt pull across.

Very rarely. I want to say 'never' but I can't be 100% certain over the last 20 years. I employ a couple of radical techniques when changing lanes, you see. First I check my mirrors (though I've got a reasonable idea of what's behind me), and check my blind spot. Assuming it's clear, I then indicate. I then wait a moment, and then perform the same checks before changing lanes whilst still performing all-round observation.

On the off-chance that somehow a bike has slipped through the net, maybe he beamed down off the Enterprise or maybe I'm not paying as much attention as I should (mistakes happen), the bike should still have seen my indicators, been ready for me to do something stupid (because this is what most bikers expect of car drivers IME) and then reacted accordingly.

So its up to me to make sure i'm not being undertaken by a motor bike at speed down the middle of the road.

Yes. Yes it is. Sorry.

Mirror signal manouver is not fast enough when a bike is coming through.

Cobblers. Maybe if you hit the indicator halfway through the manoeuvre before giving an afterthought to looking vaguely somewhere else other than the car in front's tail lights, then in that case yes, those pesky other road users might get in your way.

Show me then. I never intentionally lie or embellish the truth and am confident the two accounts broadly match.

Read the first page and skipped the middle, am a biker so always move over when i spot them coming, am also a van driver so do use my wing mirrors a fair deal, lots of motorists don't they use the rear view so often are just ignorant, as to the tossers who pull out to try and stop you, my best advice? Carry a hammer strapped to the tank, give them a couple of taps as you go by, they'll soon learn.

🙄 another Arnie on his motorbike

Yep that is great advice. There are some Grade A Cocks on here sometimes.

Inbred456 - Member

So its up to me to make sure i'm not being undertaken by a motor bike at speed down the middle of the road. Hmmm you may be right, still i'm in a car so i'll be allright. If only we could all be as good as you TJ. Motor bikes are incredibly hard to see on the near side when they are weaving through traffic. Mirror signal manouver is not fast enough when a bike is coming through. Maybe we should change the law and just give motorbikes right of way regardless.

I'm not defending idiots on a speed trip, wheelies from traffic light to traffic light, but there's nothing wrong with sensible filtering. Using your car to assert your opinion that there is just identifies you as an A-grade bell-end. I bet you froth at the mouth and drive halfway across the two lanes the minute you see a "2 lanes to 1 in 800 yards" sign as well.

The only filtering I have seen has been mental filtering at speed on a motorway and I swear I could see a little guardian angel flying behind the motorcyclists concerned.

you want crazy filtering....

here you go

Been riding motorbikes for 7 years now. And i used to get really serious road rage with Car driver due to the filtering episodes and the SMIDSY's but now the attitude of everyone is out to knock you off and try to block your progress. I just let them get on with it. If someone blocks me while filtering, i will wait till i can eventually get passed and not even acknowledge its bothered me.

One thing i can't stand, tail gating. Really what is the point? Why tailgate me when there's a big line of cars ahead. Once the speed limit increases they are left for dead.

And the reason Ghostrider has never been successfully unmasked is because Ghostrider gets smeared under the wheels of an artic every week.

What is a SMIDSY?

you want crazy filtering....

here you go

[url=

has nothing on this[/url]

Edit: You have to watch it all

 

SMIDSY - Sorry mate i didn't see you. Roughly translated to. Sorry pal i wasn't looking because i was to preoccupied in my own little world to be arsed about you.

Most car drivers are cocks, they're the same cocks who'll turn left and have you off you're push-bike, not that i ride that much on the road, but when i do, i guarantee there will have to be a wing kicking incident at least once during an average week of commuting..

Van truck & UK HGV driverson the other hand are generally more bike aware, i say UK because round here we get a lot of deaths from Continental HGV vehicle incidents.. (The M20 is where the Channel Tunnel kicks out and I swear everyone in South East Kent knows of someone killed by a continental truck, I reckon they almost kill as many as cancer, I swear to God.

As to you motorists preventing bike filtering i do fail to see your problem with it.

you want crazy filtering....

here you go

>

/p>

That has nothing on this

Edit: You have to watch it all

my last road rage incident was due to me pottering past a line of traffic to the front of a que at some lights. Pulled away and the cock in the car thrashed the shit out of his people carrier to stay along side me, it was only a 20mph limit so I couldnt really just leave him behind so I slowed to go behind. So he slowed too, so I gave it a quick blip and moved in front of him. By this point we had pretty much reached the next lights and this bloke was shouting all kinds of abuse at me so I stopped and stepped up to his window. Apparently I should "****ing well wait like everyone else has to" and even better he was going to "****in run me over". At this to my eternal shame I reached in his window took his keys and threw them away. It all ended with a bit of a scuffle and the driver of the car behind pulling the bloke away and telling him he was driving like a cock. The worrying thing was the blokle must have been in his 50's and I really dont think he could see where his keys were lying on the footpath.

Most people dont seem to mind filtering but as the OP said some pull over and some get really quite angry. My rule of thumb is to keep below 20mph if going past stationary traffic and not to let the differential go above 20mph.

The Flying Ox - Member

And the reason Ghostrider has never been successfully unmasked is because Ghostrider gets smeared under the wheels of an artic every week.

Well that's certainly well informed. Neither a secret identity, nor dead.

More fool you if you think your so called *facts* will get in the way of my blind, uneducated rantings.

Filtering would appear to be some sort of euphemism for a motorcyclist risking loads by trying to ride significantly quicker between the traffic on the road he/she is riding on.

All it takes is SWDNSY (someone who did not see you) changing lane and BANG!

The only filtering I have seen has been mental filtering at speed on a motorway

Do you not do much driving, or just do it with your eyes shut?

Most car drivers are cocks, ... i guarantee there will have to be a wing kicking incident at least once during an average week

You know, you're not doing much to support your case.

Ho hum - Member

Filtering would appear to be some sort of euphemism for a motorcyclist risking loads by trying to ride significantly quicker between the traffic on the road he/she is riding on.

No filtering is a legitimate and legal procedure in stationary or slow moving traffic. You can fail your motorcycle test for not doing it

Cougar - Member
Do you not do much driving, or just do it with your eyes shut?

I drive plenty chap.

I was just commenting on my experience.

No need for the cheekiness.

TJ - as I have just replied to Cougar I am just commenting on my experience. For some reason I don't see many bikers on the roads I am on (that's because they filter so quickly past me 😉 kidding)

No need for the cheekiness.

I don't mean to be cheeky; just, well, it's got to be one or the other, or you have a particularly atypical demographic of riders around you. Or you're telling porkies, I suppose, but I assumed not.

Did you find that original thread yet TJ? Ready to prove me wrong in your wild accusations yet?

The Flying Ox - Member

More fool you if you think your so called *facts* will get in the way of my blind, uneducated rantings.

Well played 🙂

Cougar - Member
Well, it's got to be one or the other, or you have a particularly atypical demographic of riders around you. Or you're telling porkies, I suppose, but I assumed not.

The only time I have seen motorcyclists filtering has been on the M8 in and out of Edinburgh at rush hour during the winter when the traffic is doing 50/60mph and filterers are doing at least 20mph+ more than that.

They may have a deathwish or think themselves superhuman, but I must admit to being startled by their riding (and I check my mirrors regularly).

Atypical, maybe, maybe not?

Cougar - Member

You know, you're not doing much to support your case.

What you saying? I don't have a case? Car drivers are not cocks?

Don't ever take up riding a powered bike chum, you'll not live long.

Been riding bikes for more years than I care to remember, best advice I offer anyone, ride em like you're invisible, because for the most part you are, cock car drivers use peripheral vision so much and it doesn't recognised bike shapes as a threat to their paint work or the sanctity of their little castle on wheels.

So wether you're filtering or just riding along you need to expect them to pull out, turn left and cut you off exit a roundabout and take you with them having overtaken you on it.

I recently gave up the bike, one close call too many, it's too busy and the drivers are too unaware and definitely not bike aware and as to riding a road bike, you couldn't pay me even if i had ceased with the hetracil.

Just went to the last page I'd read there.. TJ, ta for that helpful and positive comment about me needing to improve my observation skills. I'm not infallible but the fact that I checked all corners, looked at the traffic all round me and was flashed out by someone who made me a space meant I felt fairly secure. For the record I also had a White transit van behind me but I pulled forward enough to have a clear view all round including my shoulder check.
Btw, I'm trained to IAM standards as well as being driver 2 blue light trained so I don't think my observation skills are so bad that they need improved that much. Sorry if I didn't jot down a full driving plan and DRA tho..
Typical though, someone on here making a judgement about someone else on the basis of a couple of posts. Sheesh.

Dammit.. Too late to add that I was indicating for ages prior to moving, that's why I was flashed out..

Mr Ox. I have nothing against sensible filtering. I always give bikes the right of way anyway regardless. Maybe I was stirring the pot by saying ill be allright cos im in a big metal tank, but that is the point. I just wish they would slow down a bit when weaving through traffic. Everyone of my mates bar one who has had an accident on a bike, thankfully nobody that badly hurt was being reckless ie speeding and lost control of the bike, no cars involved.

althepal... You probably realise this but you shouldn't be assuming anything just because someone flashes you out.

Inbred456 - Member

Everyone of my mates bar one who has had an accident on a bike, thankfully nobody that badly hurt was being reckless ie speeding and lost control of the bike, no cars involved.

Aye, bikers like to think that they're most at risk from cars but the accident figures show they're most at risk from themselves.

NW.. Appreciate it was a while ago in the thread but yes, I cycled into the city centre every day a few years ago. Didnt risk filtering very much after someone turned left and knocked me off my bike despite the fact I was slightly in front Of them. They weren't indicating btw..For the record. I'm not in the habit of blocking anyone, cars, bikes or motorbikes. Why would you think that?
I've also had my wingmirror knocked by another car, they stopped and offered to pay for the damage. I thought this was a discussion about bikers tho and how they act on the road.. That's why I was giving examples of motorbikers behaviour that I've experienced. Think we all know theres idiots with bikes, cars and or motorbikes

Nw, was just to give you an idea of how long I'd been indicating.. NOT that I thought it was safe to move because someone else told me to..

Had in incident yesterday with a knob head driver (I was also driving) driving along the outside lane (m25). out of no where this Saab 93 pulls across me making me jump on the brakes. So I gave him a flash, he then swerves towards the central reservation (on purpose) flicking up all the lose debris (he knows what he was doing I could see him smile) end result of 1 new windscreen needed! Missive chip/crack. He then missed the run in to the m3 and had to cut several people up tomget his turning causingsome to swerve wildly.

(needs more capital for a rant I know)

althepal - you still failed to see a motorcycle. Therefore your observation was not up to scratch. the motorcycle was performing a legitimate manoeuvre and you failed to see him nearly pulling into his path.

You also appear not to know that this is a legal and legitimate manoeuvres.

Teh answer as I am sure you are aware as an advanced driver is reflective practice and learn trhe lessons - next time you look for that bike. Thats how we all get better

So you didn't find it then TJ?

Thank you TJ. Don't know what I'd do without you sometimes. No, really.
(you just don't give up do you?)
How do you know the motorbike didn't swerve out from behind the White van, how do you know what speed he was doing or the weather conditions? Without being there I don't really see how you can make such a definitive judgement? I get the fact that it should be mirror, signal, manoeuvre too thanks, no need to keep repeating it.
And speaking of repetition, I read it the first time when you said it's not illegal, since then I haven't mentioned the legality of it. Although it does seem stupid and extremely dangerous undertaking/filtering folk at speed on the motorway between lanes 2 and 3.

And please, really- please, don't tell me that the things listed above don't matter, I'm just trying to point out (again) that you weren't there so I fail to see how you can be so sure of your judgement?
Anyways, nightshifts done, goodnight and stay safe out there everyone.

althepal - did you see the bike? No. In that case your observation was not sufficient.

its simple logic.

The bike cannot appear from nowhere.