Where are most of these jobs which cant be filled ?
aberdeen.
Our company is small 45 of us, we manufacture for all industrial sectors but in particular Oil & Gas at the moment. Company has had a policy for years of taking apprentices with many of them now dotted around the company in key positions. At least 3 of them came as work experiences placements while still at school. Some of them have gone on to study at degree level paid for by the company, some leave (only to be expected). Whatever the the role in a company, training is important to up skill the the staff. That's part of how you keep people interested and wanting to contribute, it's not always about pay but being valued. Any company of any size that is not taking on apprentices is very short sighted, especially at present as they are a bargin. Over the years the quality of those available as apprentices has been pretty poor (piss poor attitude mostly) but for the last 3 years (Guesstimate, I'm a proper engineer) things have begun to change, it would seem that making things out of metal is interesting again and "college is boring with no job at the end" (quote from one of our latest). The company has also employed degree engineers, inevitably with no shopfloor training they are as useless as first year apprentices till they are made to get some hands on time. That's the point some leave as they think they are better than the welders, fitters, painters and anyone else in a pair overalls, those that stick it soon learn who really are the "engineers" in a company and will help them be successful on various projects.
We plan to start up to 4 youngster this year but know that there will only be two left within months. Wrong attitude and you are out, right attitude is key for us to spend time and money getting good people. There are some really great young people out there crying out for a chance and it's important that companies of all sizes give them a go. Also its important that us as employees give them a fair chance and show some interest in them. No youngster coming through and your company will die and after all, who is going to make the teas and coffees?
I shall step down and away from my soap box.
Telecoms has changed a lot in my lifetime. 20 years ago (or so), when I started, there were loads of large established companies who took on loads of sandwich students and graduates and trained them up. Companies such as BT, Marconi, STC, etc.
I was one such graduate and got several years of excellent training at STC (which became BNR then Nortel). However, most of these have either gone bust or scaled back massively and no longer take on large numbers of graduates.
In the last 15 years I've worked for smaller companies and we just don't have the money or bandwidth to train anyone up, so only take on experienced staff or exceptionally talented graduate SW engineers (who basically already know their stuff).
It's a real shame, as I still have loads of friends from my graduate year intake even though it was 20+ years ago.
Glass Ceiling for technical roles?
I'm a technical kind of guy, I like being involved in the making of stuff and seeing projects through to the end so I like what I do. I've ended up changing jobs to stay technical rather than buy the shiney suit and move into "sales", or swallow the semon and join "management". Technical people do tend to be their own worst enemies though as they don't like courses or meeting managment semen-swallowing targets etc which counts against them come appraisal time. At a certain career point to remain technical becomes difficult as your in the HR world of pay bands where HR call the shots (or so you are told); once you top-out on a pay band there is no pay rise they can give you (or so they tell you)... and to remain technical the pay band is nowhere near what you would get as a consultant. So to remain technical and increase your pay comensurate with your experience (and value) you "almost" have to go consulting... which means you get paid well to do the jobs the graduates don’t want to do since they all want to be in management (they haven't found out the further they go up the management ladder the more onerous the semen swallowing targets become).
Obviously there is more to it than that but for industrys which requires technical expertise many are not very good at nurturing technical people. I blame management and HR which are full of chancers, cheats and liers... if you can't do the job manage it 😉
I need to get past the stage where people look at my paper qualification and then dump my application in the bin.
I have a Bsc in Environmental Management, but then I have 5 years experience in the UK in land drilling, working on all types of drilling rig, plus geotechnical experience.
Then I have two years experience in Australia, augering, concrete coring, concrete testing, compaction testing etc etc
If I ever get asked or volunteer to do something I just do it and learn from it.
I find that you get the graduates and engineers coming out from the larger companies who don't know their arse from their elbow, especially when it comes to hands on work.
I tried to get onto a graduate scheme, but couldn't get past the application stage due to not having an engineering qualification, and they certainly paid better than what I was getting privately (at least 30% more).
Whilst I have a lot of experience in the field, I don't have a paper qualification to back it up yet which will hopefully get me higher on on the rung if I wanted to move.
Aberdeens a bit far for me.
I started off after Uni in an Environmental Consultancy (worked on windfarms design etc) really enjoyed it and learned alot but the funding doesnt seem to be there for these projects any more. Currently in Construction and would like to move away from that as its flat on its arse...
There are plenty of skilled Engineering jobs going in the Submarine build business in Barrow - they have a constant skills shortage.
although Barrow is a total dump, it is near the lakes...
You could also try Great Yarmouth. Many of the oil companies in Aberdeen have bases in GY but on a smaller scale. Still a need for engineers though.
I have a technical role with an electrical bias.When I served my time (20+years ago)there was 150+ apprenticeships per year ,across three or four local employers - now there are a handful.
Where I am now, my dept. hasn't had an apprentice for over 6 years!
I feel sorry for the one or two "multi" skilled apprentices there are, as their training is pathetic in comparison to mine.
My training isn't much better to be honest. Everything is now in the form of self read litigation/prosecution protection manuals!
We haven't had any proper "work" training for a long time.
Maybe we should all open coffee shops and tanning salons. 🙁
Oil and gas here.More training courses tan you can shake a stick at
You may have used some software I wrote.
Go on gies a clue;)
I tried to get onto a graduate scheme, but couldn't get past the application stage due to not having an engineering qualification, and they certainly paid better than what I was getting privately (at least 30% more).
I had the same issue with graduate schemes. I've several degrees in applied maths concentrating on fluid dynamics, experience applying those degrees and have even taught engineers, plus a fair amount of hands on work, a lot more than many engineering grad I've met, but still no go. Ended up in a engineering slanted software role which doesn't give me any hand on work unfortunately. The frustration of being desk bound gets to me. It making me consider giving it all up.
Go on gies a clue;)
Pretend rigs. With levers and dials and all that.
IWC simulators ?
Nah im not deemed important enough for my IWC if there is a well control situation im on the life boat like road runner
Yep, and general equipment operation too. I'm more involved on the downhole side but we have people doing pipe handling malarkey too.
I don't worry too much about graduate schemes - I don't see those people ("engineers") or know what they do apart from earning more than me and apparently knowing very little.
However I think the unrelenting pressure on kids to go to university is robbing us of good apprentices - I started my apprenticeship at 18 after 6th form. I have never heard of any apprentice recruitment targeting A Level chemistry and physics students (or even 1st year uni dropouts) but there are bound to be good kids there who would love to be more employable and £60,000* better off by the time they turn 21.
*3 years uni fees and 3 years apprentice pay very approximately.
glass Ceiling for technical roles
It's a sunroof!
If you're a good technician you're far to useful to get promoted. If you're very good you enjoy it too much to care.
You lot are lucky... at least you are working.
Ended up back on "the market" last year after I had no option but to shut down my own engineering company after 10 years.
I'm now either over or underqualified if I get a response at all to applications. I've had the downright bloody stupid too a) you need to be time served with a degree FFS that is two totally divergent career paths and b)you are too experienced!!!!!
I had the ignomony of being rejected outright for a job as an installer with a multinational AV company where I actually trained all their installers didn't even get an interview.
I'm an electronics / electrical engineer (B eng) who specialised in Building Automation / Building management systems and AV systems. In particular i specialised in energy managment. I have 25 years industry experience.
All I want to do is work but what I'm finding is that there seems to be no understanding of what an engineer can do, you have to tick every bloody box otherwise you get binned at application, but nobody is that perfect are they. This is where the "skills shortage" I think is appearing.
Part of the issue seems to be the water being muddied totally by "employment agencies" who all seem to be advertising all the same jobs most of which I suspect don't exist.
The other issue is HR personell having no understanding of engineering. They don't seem to realise that with a degree in engineering you have the ability to self learn a role, you can adapt readily, the "running your own company bit" scares the shit out of people too, they can't seem to see that it also means that I'm intensely multi-skilled.
You need bloody tickets and certificates for everything;
"sorry mate you have your 'inhale' certificate but you need an 'exhale' one too"
Sorry I do.. I have the big ticket - it's called a 2.2 Honours Degree in F....n Microelectronic Engineering! - at least it was, now it seems that a Beng and 25 years industry experience are not worth the paper they are written on.
I just get sick of battering my head on a brickwall, I could cry at times... often do.
Sorry to offload
Bad luck jock-muttley I hope things improve for you.
All I want to do is work but what I'm finding is that there seems to be no understanding of what an engineer can do, you have to tick every bloody box otherwise you get binned at application, but nobody is that perfect are they. This is where the "skills shortage" I think is appearing.
I think this is a problem for all technical roles, box ticking. Not just by H.R either. Many engineers / techncal people doing the hiring want someone with a very similar background to there own and can't see how any one can have their knowledge or closely related transferable knowledge without doing what they have done.
Thanks Brick,
I agree, they can't seem to see far enough into the future to see that an engineer with a different background adds to the team not takes away. I have been brought into projects or been involved in ones where a fresh outlook changes EVERYTHING for the better. I call this the W/XYZ Machine issue (see below).
But its not just engineering / technical roles I'm getting the brush off from it's ANY role.... it's like I have the plague. I just want to work, been applying for retail, public sector, voluntary sector, factories...
...Nyt Nyt Nyt... if they bother to reply at all, my C.V. (which is something I should be inordinatly proud of) is in reality a tissue of lies it's dumbed down that much for some applications - not outright lies I hasten to add just ommisions, after I have heard all the usuals
"you are applying for a £7/hr job... but you've been on £45k/pa, we can't afford you" - job advertised as £7/hr, I applied for it knowing this so why would I ask for any more!
"You will be off as soon as a better offer comes along" - as would anybody
"You have too much management experience for the role" - I read between the lines on this one as "you want my job, I'm very insecure and/or not very good at my job"
"ahh but we use the XYZ machine, your experience is with the previous WXY machine" - I'm wearing blinkers... I'm wearing blinkers..
There isn't a skills shortage in this Country there is a total lack of vision. The workplace and jobmarket is being totally hamstrung by fear of litigation. We are being held to ransom by the insurance companies whose risk assesors with little or now knowledge of an actual role are running hand in hand with training companies to create so much spurious qualifications and certification.
This atmosphere is fuelled by the usual no win no fee solicitors and the assumption that it can't be YOUR fault that you whipped your wedding tackle out and stuffed it in the brush shredder.... after all nobody in the company implicitly told you not to experiment with a fast rotating sharp blade and your genitalia......
ergo another court case, another big payout and another training course and qualification required in [i]"Not sticking your gentlemans vegetables into a mincer 101"[/i]
Where about are you biased? Maybe someone here might be able to point you in a good direction.
Where about are you biased?
Somewhere to the right of Ghengis Kahn.... 
but I'm [b]based[/b] in the North East of England (Blyth, SE Northumberland)
The dangers of a speed spell check!
Jock have you looked a the engineering business up your way..they were a superb company to work for and took guys at all levels
rolls are building a new factory where i used to work in Sheffield get your applications in, the bottom line there is they cant get skills, which is amazing considering there's nor phd s running round there than you can shake a stick at
Jock have you looked a the engineering business up your way..they were a superb company to work for and took guys at all levels
This is NE England there is a lot of Engineering Businesses up here! the two biggies in Blyth are NAREC and Draeger..
Jock, he means EB, or IHC merwerde as they are now known.
Lots of jobs going in the north east atm in oil and gas and renewables.
kevj thats the one they got bought out or (reading between) the directors took the money but i assumed most folks knew them as the engineering buisness
I know they used to take guys from grads and some were there training was good often a few guys would get chartered through engB
confess i'm finding it a struggle myself. 'engineering roles' locally are paying less, 10 or 20% less, than uk average wage. when you read job descriptions they usually want a tall/small, fat/thin engineer who's happy to make tea, redesign the titanic and oversee the build, before lunch, for a bag of grapes and a pack of digestives. meanwhile industry bigwigs wail that educational establishments are not providing organ banks for sector 7G that fit their exact specifications for buttons. my heart ****ing bleeds. meanwhile i'm weighing up whether or not i should take the job collecting litter on the seafront, portering at the local university, or being a technician on wind farms involving significant work away from home for half my former wage. except i'm not. presumably ( as at least the wind farm people told me ) due to the 'high number of quality candidates'. sigh. i just want a job. really i don't care that much if it's collecting litter off the seafront if it's only a couple of k/year less than the technician role, because the responsibility will be so much less, and at least i'll be home to walk the dog before she craps on the carpet, and i won't have to worry about that big propeller falling on someone.
can't find the staff? here's a clue, smart guy. start paying and open your ****ing eyes to what other people have to offer.
I'll mark my own rant. 2/10. mostly grammatically correct and significant shortfall in random caps and spittle. 😳
I'm in the same industry as jock-mutley. I not a BMS engineer, but do use them to make buildings do what I want. We used to employ a couple full-time on similar Monday as jock earned, but the closed nature of the likes of Trend etc and their systems houses meant we couldn't get their software as we didnt sell units for them. No more BMS guys.
Sit tight jock, things are moving in the energy management industry. We are growing at a fair old rate.
i just want a job. really i don't care that much if it's collecting litter off the seafront if it's only a couple of k/year less than the technician role, because the responsibility will be so much less, and at least i'll be home to walk the dog
I hear you... did some temp work inbetween contracts as my company started to go down to stave off the wolf from the door, was at various times over 2 years a binman, recycling centre attendant, school bus driver, tractor driver.
I loved it... walk out the gates or hand the keys back at the end of the shift and that was it... no worry, no pressure, no phone calls from @rsehole rich clients at 11:30pm complaining that their electricity is the wrong colour.
I'm in the same industry as jock-mutley. I not a BMS engineer, but do use them to make buildings do what I want. We used to employ a couple full-time on similar Monday as jock earned, but the closed nature of the likes of Trend etc and their systems houses meant we couldn't get their software as we didnt sell units for them. No more BMS guys.
Sit tight jock, things are moving in the energy management industry. We are growing at a fair old rate.
I'm a rarity in the BMS world... I'm a KNX (Konnex) engineer as in OPEN SOURCE bms with multiple manufacturers like Siemens, Honeywell, Danfoss, GEC, etc.
The protocol & standard (ISO/IEC14543-3) is VERY common on the continent for both residential as well as commercial and public sector buildings but here in the UK the specifiers just ran away muttering phrases like "witchcraft"
Buildings that use it exclusively in the UK are T5 at Heathrow and the new StPancras terminal.
Wrecker.... BTW just realised what you said
[u][b]KNX is open source[/b][/u] so there is no "proprietorial" guff to cope with so if you want to get your chaps to talk to my chaps
Jock, the industry is screaming for it. Trouble is design engineers still seem to specify trend. We have been guilty of it previously, but no longer will we spec trend for any installations. KNX you say? Ill have a look at that, thanks.
Wrecker,
If your chaps want wholly impartial information on this technology and a bit of a heads up then feel free to have them make contact with me, given that I'm currently not working I'm not on any form of selling agenda
e mail Details should be visible in my profile, happy to speak on the phone.
glass Ceiling for technical rolesIf you're a good technician you're far to useful to get promoted. If you're very good you enjoy it too much to care.
Slightly missing the point. Grads quickly see the glass ceiling and decide that a technical role does not reward with pay or status. The bosses are managers and accountants.
I tell people I'm an Engineer and they ask me to fix their boiler. So I tell them I design computer systems (for spacecraft) and they ask me to fix their PC.
I'm coming around to the idea that the term "Engineer" should be resigned to the plumbers, mechanics and computer repairers, and that we should be called: "Ingénieurs".
