I’ve just started running with a club and the coach has told me that my max heart rate (204) is too high and I should use 190 for calculating zones. Most of the club training is based on pace rather than HR but they use a HR based Zoldadz test to determine which groups you should be in for tempo and interval and LSR sessions.
I did the Zoldadz test on Thursday (in 32°C heat!) and my Zone 5 pace (@ 190-10=180bpm rather than 204-10=194bpm) is very steady and certainly slower than my 5km pace, in fact it’s closer to my marathon pace.
I’ve chatted with the coach about it and his reasoning is that 204 is too high for my age and I will be stressing my heart too much, I’m thinking that’s a load of cobblers and the ‘stress’ at max HR will be the same independent of what the max HR actually is i.e. someone running their max of 190bpm is working just as hard as me running at 204bpm.
The LSR on Sunday was really, really slow, I normally run at 5:00-5:15min/km on my runs but the club run was 6:30-7:00 which was practically walking. I’m tempted to just use my own paces for the training sessions and ignore their recommendation but does anyone have any ideas why this would be a really bad move?
your coach does not know what they are talking about. Get another coach, if he gets something this simple wrong....I am 36 and my max is 202...people are different, calculations are for Mr Average. Not everyone is Mr Average
edit - something constructive, contact your local uni to take a proper Vo2 type test to establish your HR zones etc for training. This will cost you in the region of £140 and will be definitive. I did this 2 years ago, and was actually almost bang on how I had calculated my zones using the simple % max calcs. Repeat test next week to see improvements / differences after 2 years of training and weight loss.
edit2 - max can also depend on lots of factors like caffine intake / feeling ill etc... you need a lot of data, and for it to be consistent before you can make any real assumptions based on HR
How old are you? That's a pretty big difference, certainly in my case the 220-age or similar type formulae are pretty accurate, at most 1 or 2 BPM out.
You could always work out your real max HR.
I’m 41, 220 – my age has always been way out. 204 is my actual max at the moment, I hit that down the home straight in a 5k recently.
220 - age is subject to a huge potential error. Much the same as irelanst I'm 40 but I've had my max heart rate up at 198 bpm.
if that's your actual max rather than one worked out with a formula then that's your maximum heart rate and nothing can be done to make it less high
your coach is an idiot
The clue is in the name really...'maximum' it is what it is and if you stay at a lower heart rate it's not your max simples.
I recently did a VO2Max test and my max heart rate came out at 180. I'm 31 so the 220-age rule of thumb was out by 10bpm ish. according to the sports scientist running the test, the 220-age is never that far wrong.
I’m 41, 220 – my age has always been way out. 204 is my actual max at the moment, I hit that down the home straight in a 5k recently.
In that case your coach is an idiot!
(Assuming your HRM is reliable, of course...)
your coach does not know what they are talking about. Get another coachIn that case your coach is an idiot
I was thinking that TBH. For me that advantage of joining the club was to run with faster guys, and in the group sessions so far I’ve been easily the strongest in the group so it’s a bit pointless. This club is very convenient though, it’s 1/2mile up the road and I get unlimited access to the track and gym and it’s free (well work is paying, but it costs me nothing).
I just checked and the local hospital has a sports medicine section and can do VO2 max test so I may look into that but I am pretty confident my max is correct to within a few bpm.
(Assuming your HRM is reliable, of course...)
I’m not sure what the claimed accuracy is (I have 2 HRMs both Polar and the results are similar) – I might have to do some googling!
Sorry - Double Post
I was hitting 205 in my early 30s, 220-age is a joke.
Don't think I've seen it since!
My consultant told me that if the only way you know that your heart rate is very high is by looking at your HRM then you don't have a problem. If you feel faint, dizzy etc then you need to see a doctor.
For me that advantage of joining the club was to run with faster guys, and in the group sessions so far I’ve been easily the strongest in the group so it’s a bit pointless.
You mentioned you've only just started with the club, maybe the coach is just playing it safe for the moment? It's quite possibly not the first time a new guy's turned up asking to be in the fast group, only to crash and burn shortly after...
I’m not sure what the claimed accuracy is (I have 2 HRMs both Polar and the results are similar) – I might have to do some googling!
If both HRMs are giving similar results (presumably with different HR straps) then I'd trust them, it's not as if it's cutting-edge technology.
your coach does not know what they are talking about.
+1
In my late 30s, when racing, I would see over 200 regularly. My mean for a 90min XC race was about 189.
In my late 30s, when racing, I would see over 200 regularly. My mean for a 90min XC race was about 189.
This was me as well
But beware of transfering figures from one sport to another. I was told (and always found) that maximum heart rate and heart rate zones were different for running and cycling. I could always achieve and sustain much higher heart rates cycling than I could running.
I'd go by how you feel rather than what your coach or even your HRM tell you.
My cadiologist reckoned that 220 - age rarely worked for older athletes who regularly indulged in all-out efforts. He wasn't worried by my reports of over 200 at 40+ in the holes shots of x-c ski races. I could still hold a conversation with him at 180bpm on the bike in the hopsital which was my theoretical max, and the limit he refused to go beyond on the machine for fear of me dying on him - not unknown apparently, Goscinny of Asterix fame died in a Parisian clinic during an effort test.
28 and max heart rate of 181, everyone's different. Resting heart rate of 38 though. 🙂
I was also worried about this.
I am nearly 50 and am seeing HR of 200 when I really push on a ride.
My average on 40 mile road rides is about 140 to 150
Resting rate is 60.
After varying pieces of advice from friends ranging from 'don't worry" to "you will die any second now" I rang my GP. She said that as long as I am not dizzy or sick and the rate lowers quickly then not to worry about it.
220-age is an average model.
In the same way that 5'10 might be average height, you woudn't be calling your doctor if you were 6'7.
But beware of transfering figures from one sport to another. I was told (and always found) that maximum heart rate and heart rate zones were different for running and cycling
They are. Your heart isn't driving the system, it's responding to what you're doing to your body. So the more muscles you are using (ie skiing or even running vs cycling) the more CO2 you need to expel, which is what drives your HR apparently. Or is that your respiration? Or both?
i ve been there when folks have arrested (not uncommon) whilst on the treadmill at hospital.
i ve personally been on one when the quacks were saying are you okay? when it was like a walk in a park, some of us have 'twisted' electrics that like to play with the stuff folk hook you up to..
they are just numbers whats good for one etc..
The 220 - age formula is 10 years or more out of date, the current recommended formula is: (209 - 0.7 x age).
Reference [url= http://exercise.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=exercise&cdn=health&tm=51&f=00&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=8&bt=9&bts=9&zu=http%3A//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11153730 ]here[/url]
I could easily get over 200 in my 30's. At 51 190 isn't hard to get. 220 - age didn't work for me. I assume that the highest number that I manage is my max.
I’ve just been up to the club and had a chat with the coach before training. Mogrim pretty much hit the nail on the head, they get so many newbies who make claims that they can’t really achieve that they set the initial targets really low to see how people cope, one of the guys who joined at the same time as me claimed he was running 6min miles but was really measuring his runs in kms!
I went out with the big boys tonight, 20km in 1:40 with tempo sets of 4min km’s in torrential rain. I’m just going for a bit of a lie down!