[Closed] Can a house / room cause pneumonia / illness?

Do you have CO detectors in place?

Any gas appliances in the house?

How old is the house?

Possibly.

I had asthma as a kid and its never really gone completely. As such I find that some environments can bring on snotty noses, wheezing in the evenings and cold like symptons quite quickly.

We spent a week away in Cornwall in a house on a hillside. No obvious/visible damp (it really was a lovely house) but had that initial smell that we soon didn't realise.

Time spent in the house, like at night, left me quite "chesty".

Maybe temporarily block the vents into the rooms from the cavity and see what happens?

I'll come and stay for the weekend?

Had the previous owner recently laid a patio?

On a more serious note, the carpets left behind in our house when we bought it absolutely stank, of what I'm not sure but it triggered a gag reflex when I pulled them up.

Also worth getting a damp meter and seeing what it's like in there compared to the rest of the house.

I'd consider having a Building Surveyor take a look.

APF

My 3 month old is currently in hospital with suspected pneumonia.

Really sorry to hear this 🙁

Worth checking for damp as has been said. Our last house had a bit of a damp issue and I had constant breathing problems as a result (mostly wheeziness). Gone completely since we moved house a few years ago. In-laws place is an old cottage and when staying there I get the old symptoms back.

You can get a damp meter from screwfix to test the walls. Do you get a lot of condensation or mould growing round the windows?

1930's
Gas combi and cooker
Carbon monoxide sensors not reacting (nest jobbies)
Nothing on the structural survey (Dec)

Started looking into specialist mould surveyors - they are in the region of £1k so would like to do some self help before I go down that path

I'll order a damp meter - any recommendations? (it doesn't 'feel' damp if that makes sense

Oh totally. Radon? highly highly unlikely mind

Hope your child gets better soon all the best

carpet in the back room does look old, so will be going, but this at the end of a long list of jobs...

if I had to try to name the smell the closest is stale fags, so I'd assumed a previous owner had smoked.

The downstairs loo which used to be the old outside loo is a definite potential source of damp / mould though it looks fine it is the original loo. This is attached to the cavity wall below the suspect room. I'm pulling it all out soon so wondering if I'm going to find something nasty.

I got a pretty cheap one but it was obvious as soon as I put it to the walls that there was damp. Something like [url= http://amzn.eu/gWyC95p ]this[/url] should give you a good idea.

Thanks for the best wishes, its very stressful, so I'm trying to focus on if there is a problem sorting it out for when he gets better and comes home.

Should check for mould, possibly from water damage.

Edit: Google Dr Ritchie Shoemaker who's an authority on mould.

My toddler seems to be snotty / swallowing stuff regularly in the mornings

I get this and have pretty much isolated it to our house - it clears up completely when away on holiday but at home I get it all the time. I'm fairly sure it started when we had an extension done and the house was really dusty for a couple of months.

I inherited a mouldy cupboard from muppets using it for condensing tumbledrier.

Cleaned it but never felt right in there.

Peeled off the wallpaper and the mould was clearly still in evidence.

Sorry to hear that, sounds like a really stressful situation.

I'm allergic to my MiLs house. It's similar but worse to the reaction I get to a house with cats (basically cold like symptoms). She doesn't have any pets or anything like that and it's really clean, but it's an old wooden house that's been encased in brick / render at some point. I assume the old wooden structure is getting pretty mouldy by now and that's what it is. It has a bit of damp smell but nothing too bad.

My sister also developed reasonably serious chest problems and asthma requiring medication living in a damp student flat for 6 months. No real problems before or since.

So yes, houses can make you quite ill IME.

Have you checked the loft space? We're working on an expert witness case where they didn't ventilate the roof space properly and it became so toxic the whole house had to be quarantined.

Edit: sorry, your op mentions the roof space.

purely anecdotal, but since I installed a positive pressure ventilation unit in our 1880's house, humidity levels are dramatically down, the house is much fresher and me, my wife and my 6yr old son who came out of hospital with chronic lung disease have been considerably healthier.

hasnt stopped us from getting coughs and colds but they dont seem to develop and linger like they did.

Sorry to hear about your 3 month old.

I get hayfever and react in a similar way to some perfumes and cats so obviously suffer from an allergic disposition. Had a really weird episode one Christmas and it turned out to be a holly wreath.

Odd question but could it be something in the local environment rather than just the house, for example building works, industrial sites etc? If you have a tent you and the toddler could try sleeping out in that a few nights to see if you have the same reaction as you do to the house. That will at least confirm it's the house rather than some other local environmental factor external to the house.

Other thing is the humidity of the house, get a cheap humidity meter https://www.amazon.co.uk/DTY-Trading-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer/dp/B004GN9EH2 and see what it's like in the house. We did get a bit of mould in the winter so invested in a de-humidifier which sorted it.

Other option is positive ventilation to bring in fresh air, assuming it's something airborne and not the fabric or fixtures of the building itself.

Good luck.

I havent taken up all the old insulation in the loft just spot checked above the room in question. Saw nothing obvious. There is evidence of several large old wasps nests - we had to get a live nest the other side of the loft zapped several weeks ago.

We have a washing machine in the old downstairs pantry adjoined to downstairs loo which can smell damp - it has a window and vent.

Just had the bathpanel off in the adjoining bathroom to the back room - the wall looks original (plaster and lathe?) and is green where the shower is. Doesn't look wet or damp though

Sorry to hear about your kid OP - let us know how it goes.

We had a damp house in Killin, and it did cause more snot/chesty/sniffles than we now have in our house.

Belt and braces: get a damp meter for wall and humidistat to see if there is damp.
We now have a dehumidifier, as we learned in Killin that these can make a huge difference. Ours now runs in the back room most of the time, where the washing often is, but gets moved around the house if a room feels damp. Ours has a humidistat and is one of the new ones that doesn't cost a lot to buy or run. Do it.

Interesting reading on positive pressure ventilation units. Sounds like a dehumidifier on steroids?

Who did you use to install? What were the costs?

First website I've looked at:
https://www.wisepropertycare.com/services/condensation/treatment-solutions/positive-pressure-ventilation/

I've bought the damp meter and humidity sensor linked. Should be here tomorrow.

from memory it was about £350, i fitted it myself. worth every penny. a few people I know have had them fitted as a result.

Firstly worrying times. Our son has suffered with Pneumonias from the age of 1, multiple hospital admissions, some very scary times where we have nearly lost him.

Anyhow...

Our house is a 1900 ish semi detached stone house. Previous to us it had been an old couple who never put heating on. When we moved in, mold started growing in the corners of the room. We managed to remove visible mold.

Jnr FD started getting ill, as did I (both of us having quite serious Pneumonia's).

Medical opinion was that we were both unlucky, not asthma, allergy, reflux etc.

As Jnr FD kept getting Pneuominas, and I got it again. I started researching Positive Venitaltion Systems.

Installed and house much fresher in feel, and visible mold left died. Frequency of Jnr FD Pneumonia's decreased (but didnt stop)

We basically took his bedroom apart. Washed everything, put all toys etc in freezer to kill bed bugs etc. No change.

We were convinced it was an allergy link ie dogs/pollen/mole etc but the consultant consistantly said he would grow out of it, definitely not asthma or allergy related.

Last year aged 6 he moved to a bigger bedroom in the house, and he just appeared more settled in his sleep ie less snotty, and breathing more controlled.

As he has grown older we believe he has devloped slight hayfever, and certainly an allergy to chlorine in swimming pools!

With 7 years of experience, we now think we have narrowed it down to the house environment, and change in season (pollen).

I installed the Positive Ventiallation System, and to be fair any health issues aside I would do it in any house I buy now. Jnr FD also has antihystamine almost daily especially at change of season.

We are currently on high allert as late August/Early September is always unfortunately when he gets ill. He as been 1 yr now Pneumonia free, but we are not counting our chickens yet.

See my previous threads re PPv..

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/positive-pressure-ventilation-loft-units-which

Interesting reading on positive pressure ventilation units. Sounds like a dehumidifier on steroids?

I think its more the fact that they circulate air around the house, but yes humidity was very high in our house, ie 90%+ now its about 60%

Does this sound completely stupid and I'm being paranoid?

Nope, if you are all suffering as you say.

I'd have done all the stuff you've done then called environmental health at the council for more assistance, they've a wealth of knowledge and expertise in all sorts of cases. I'd say check them out first before throwing money and resources at your problems, they may have a small list of things to check out first.

Do you open windows at all or have trickle vents open.

Even if it's a shitty day out i open all windows to vent the house, much to Mrs b annoyance.

Ge rid of the old carpet, even if you have to show bare boards. Mrs M was asthmatic at both her parents' house (old farmhouse) and in our own, until we chucked out some old carpets and put down wood flooring where possible, with rugs elsewhere. Lots of ventilation helps, too.

first to check really is relative humidity in the room, human comfort is 40-70% but anything above 60% can act by causing condensation points where naturally occurring fungal spores can start to colonize. One of the main control for indoor fungal contamination is to control the RH. There are a few species of mold/fungi that can cause issues with susceptible individuals, but usually it is with the very young or those with reduced immune function. the other thing to bear in mind it that a source could be external such as fields trees etc... as we are coming into the season for a lot of the storage fungi to start sporing so things like cladosporium aspergillus pencilium mucor and so on.

Its one of my specialist consultancy areas so feel free to drop me a message and I'll guide you through what you can do etc... and If you local more than happy to pop over with some kit and look at with you (no charge)

Thanks for all the feedback and help. The intention was to bin the carpet but when I started taking it up the boards are in a bit of a state having been chopped about, have nail heads sticking out one half and plywood (?? no idea ??) nailed down on the other half.

Tazzy - Southampton based, will dropped you a private message, your profile doesn't seem to have an email

DT - Hardboard is traditional for covering a rough floor before carpets or whatever are laid. This may be what you have on one half, and need on the other. But I guess you need to take up the existing stuff to see what's under.

B & Q do hardboard in 8ft x 4ft sheets. My local one will cut it to 4 x 2 for free, much easier to transport and to use.

I rented a house where the owner blocked up the vents and fitted DG with no vents.

I had no end of respiratory issues in that house which cleared as soon as I left.....

As mentioned about gas appliances, any fuel burning appliance can produce carbon monoxide, I believe there was even a case from a storage heater.

If your kids bed is located next to a wall, I'd pull the bed out to check for mould.

Any down pillows/ duvets?

Time to buy one of those bunk-beds with the wee study area underneath?

Good luck with solving this.

Ages ago had similar problems the consultant recommended getting rid of the carpets and putting down linoleum + sorting out the ventilation

Didn't result in a cure but reduced the incidence of asthma and respiratory infections

Nothing to add really other than I hope your kid gets better soon and you figure out what's causing the issues. Good luck and keep us posted

I'm very much a believer in that houses have to breathe as a means to counter dampness/,mould. Either naturally (such as opening the windows) or through forced air such as PPV as mentioned already. Heck, even a desk fan blowing air around the house prevents staleness.

Ripping out the carpet sounds a good idea, and a fresh clean start in that room. When it goes back together, make efforts to not have furniture pushed right in against the walls. A gap of 3-4" allows plenty of air to flow past and reduce the buildup of dampness between the furniture and wall.

Hope the wee one gets better.

When we first moved into our old house, I used to get a cough between autumn and spring every year. The bedroom was damp. Only really sorted it by extending up and putting a new roof on it. Good luck op

OP, I'm a chartered building surveyor, and coincidentally I commute past Southampton every day.

I'd gladly call by on the way home from work one evening next week to give the house a once over to see if there's anything untoward going on that could be contributing to the problem.

From what you've said so far, it does sound like it could be a humidity related issue. Getting rid of old carpets also sound like a good idea.

I'll PM you my details.

I've had all the windows open and it blowing a gale today. Hopefully I can sort without resorting to a new roof 🙁

Thank you for your kind offer Marin, I've dropped a note to your email in profile. Not sure if Pms are working?

I had my suspicions about a place I worked for 6 months.

Over my time working there I lost feeling in my hands, feet and then my arms and legs. Went through a full barrage of tests and feared the worst as the tests got more and more serious. Nerve conduction tests showed real problems with my nerves in most areas.

My liver test results were at levels the docs hadn't seen before - it looked like I was drinking 5-10 bottles of spirits a day.

I left that job, and everything came back to normal in 2 months. I later found out the building had been badly flooded a while before I started and some later blood tests showed a bacterial infection had caused all my problems.

http://www.lung.org/about-us/media/top-stories/cold-weather-your-lungs.html?referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

Hi OP,

Not received an email from you so I'll drop you a note now. Let me know if you don't receive it?

Hi John, thanks for the mail, I had tried to send a mail to the same email last night, so let me know if you don't get anything from me...could easily be finger trouble due to tiredness.

And some good news on my youngest he is coming home shortly, looks like they were keeping him in for 48 hours. It is pneumonia so we have to keep a careful eye on him. Smiles this morning so he is feeling better, cough and death rattle are still there. We feel terrible we ignored the signs and didnt get him to the docs sooner.

Sounds as if a dehumidifier, air purifier and possibly a supplemental fan (to help circulate air and get more passed through other units) could help.

I got a pretty cheap one but it was obvious as soon as I put it to the walls that there was damp. Something like this should give you a good idea.

Those prong meters aren't designed for measuring damp in old houses - they're for use on wood. They'll almost certainly give a false positive reading (they're much loved by folk selling damp proof courses).

A Victorian house is designed to "breathe" as someone else suggested. Then 21st Century Man comes along and hermetically seals it with modern plaster, paints, double-glazing, then wonders why everything is wet through all of a sudden.

Read this.

https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html

Great news that the young one can come home. Hopefully you'll get to the bottom of the house issues soon

well damp meter turned up. my novice if the number is big it's bad shows full bar against a couple of suspect patched in the downstairs loo. all I can think is there is a old pipe in the wall as I've disabled the toilet

plus the chimney in the backroom (lower part removed downstairs at some stage) shows a big number round the ceiling, possibly not capped correctly.

hopefully Marin will be able to give a professional opinion later in the week.

starting to think buying a doeruper was not a great idea with young ones

"40-70% but anything above 60% can act by causing condensation points"

quick run around with the cheap humidity tester shows 57-61%, so not that bad really. I'm starting to think the smell / possible related health issues maybe from water ingress rather than a condensation issue.

Big thank you to John (marin) who went out of his way to pop round today. confirmed I've got a few things that are very likely to be leading to damp and need a closer look / fixing.

I might also try out one of those pumps subject to swmbo, and how much of my rapidly diminishing budget is left!

Has the hospital told you what caused the pneumonia?

I doesn't help the immediate issue but if you had a full structural survey surely that should have highlighted damp! Maybe grounds for a claim against the surveyor/company.

The pneumonia was viral, not bacterial, caused by adenovirus (sp?) so this would not be related to damp. Doesn't mean the other things (like my headaches) are not related, but there doesn't seem to be evidence of a really bad infestation.

The areas of damp are the top of a chimney/ceiling in the back room (ground floor stack removed) and in a downstairs loo likely a plumbing leak. The survey says something along the lines of 'no damp was found by testing likely areas'. Tbh the downstairs loo looks like it might have been like this for some time (its the original 30's lead pipework) and probably should have been picked up. Going to be a massive pita to sort as it needs the laminate up in the kitchen, meaning the island probably needs to be removed as well to get to the pipework that leads to that space

So how would one start a conversation about whether this should have been identified of the structural survey or not?