Now divide the cost of owning it including depreciation, and the extra cost of travel to get there in fuel and on the ferry and divide it by the number of nights you spent in it in the last year and add that to £10 per night. I don't know what you do obviously but on the use camper van owners I know make of their vehicles adding £50-100 a night seems typical for people not actually living in them full time. I'd rather be the person in the little white car with the little tent.
When I see people in 80 000euro Campers parked in St Jean de Luz aire between the main road and the railway or any other shitty aire when there are nice capsites within 10 minutes I can't help but smile. That at least is a nice campsite.
I'm married to a woman in finance @Edukator and I don't argue sums with her at all. Science and tech, yes but sums no!
It does make me smile when i see folk in £100,000 ish grand campers beside a busy noisey A road or similar because they will not pay for a camper van berth nearby in a better location.
Some of the places you see campers now....i woukd factor in more overhead or width barriers in car parks becoming fixed in more and more places as the anti wild camping band wagon gains more momentum.
Edukator - I did write a lengthy post to reply to your comment with facts and figures but it vanished when up loading.
the jist of it was, my van is 8 years old and a self convert to be off grid as much as possible, so owes me nothing, as I can sell today for what I paid for it. Yes, the running costs are about a grand a year, but we have 60+ days in it a year and I’ve no desire to sleep in tents unless I’m touring on my motorbike.
Doing the sums on this trip, assuming it was the only time it was going out all year, it’d average about £30 a night all in (excluding food/drink).
When I see people in 80 000euro Campers parked in St Jean de Luz aire between the main road and the railway or any other shitty aire when there are nice capsites within 10 minutes I can't help but smile. That at least is a nice campsite.
we agree there for sure. I don’t want my holiday in lay-by at the side of an industrial estate just because it’s free/cheap. We pick our spots based on where we want to visit. Don’t mind paying at all but don’t look for mega site 4/5* jobs. I’m happy with a field and a view.
People are strange for sure. I know someone who lives on the edge of the Peak District and thinks this is a great view. It's Skegness - the pub is ironically named 'The View'
Guessing some similar minded people can also afford motorhomes
There's seems to be more hate around now for Camper Vans than Caravans! 🤣 I suspect this is mostly driven by jealousy.
Personally neither caravans* or camper vans are for me - I'd rather have a nice hotel or cottage - but I can easily see how they fit into many peoples lifestyles. Especially if you are retired and have time to explore at your leisure.
(*caravans especially as that's all the holidays we had as kids, and me and my brother had to sleep out in the awning so we didn't even have the benefit of a comfy bed!)
On the Basque coast we used to overnight on the sea front in the T2 pretty much anywhere 35 years ago -we were often the only camper. I can't think of anywhere that's allowed now in season. Nearly all the car parks have height barriers, some so low not even a Cali will go under. It's not so much anti-wild camping it's more a case of pro-access, pro-small business, pro-campsite, pro-peace and calm, pro-urban esthetic - because lets face it rows of big white lumps are ugly.
People arriving in a place with their view-blocking mobile house, using very few local services beyond the hyper-markets, running noisy generators and air con or stinking heating all day making a racket in front of a bar, park bench, someone's seaside retreat... is never going to go down well. They're like the cruise ships stinking out Marseille but at least cruise passengers spend a bit of money when ashore unlike the average tight-fisted camper van traveller who bought enough in Tescos or REWE to last a month in Portugal.
Anyhow banning signs have gone up this year at my local children's play area car park - the locals had got fed up. The wild-camping apps don't help, once listed the locals get inundated - that was the case with the local play area.
Just too many of the huge white lumps, most of them heading for the same few already hard pressed locations.
So factor in a few £ or euros for park4night, an aire or a campsite, buy a trailer to put a smart car on and feel welcome. 😉
You can add other smileys to my posts if you think I'm being "snobish" or judgemental. 🙂
I'm happy on what-ever site I can find that's near where we want to do stuff. Be that £10, or as much as £40. The key point for the OP is to make a list and decide what's best, be that a car, tent, motorhome, camper or van. I wanted flexibility and being able to carry the camping gear (incl. tent) without being full to the rafters - it's not pleasant driving a long distance and not being able to see out of the rear of the car, or even the rear side windows when manoeuvring. Van it was !
There's seems to be more hate around now for Camper Vans than Caravans!
I suspect this is mostly driven by jealousy.
Its driven by the huge pest the explosion of camper van usage and roadside camping has created. One spot I used a few times over the years where I only ever saw one other van is a good illustration. A few years ago there was 20 vans there and the machair was damaged. Last year its been fenced off with no camping signs all along it. There is a campsite a few miles away
it's not pleasant driving a long distance and not being able to see out of the rear of the car, or even the rear side windows when manoeuvring. Van it was !
That's the weirdest justification I've seen yet! Congrats! I have yet to drive a van that has better visibility or is easier to drive long distance than a loaded to the roof car. In fact with a French van in the UK I had to undo the seat belt and clamber across the front seat to see to pull out of some junctions when alone in the Ducato. With a UK van in Europe it must be the same. A French car involves some contortions but I can still stay in the drivers seat.
"Machair" is my new word for today.
I have yet to drive a van that has better visibility or is easier to drive long distance than a loaded to the roof car
I can see out of all sides of my T6, so definitely better visibility than a loaded car.
Driving wise, obviously not as nice as a car, but not bad
It's campervan all the way for me. I hate tents - too light in the mornings, impossible to regulate temperature, faffy and a proper p.i.t.a if you're away riding/racing and it's raining. I have a more basic van than you're probably considering with no proper toilet and a bikewash that doubles as a shower. It was cheap, takes 5 bikes with wheels on and has a massive comfy bed. Works well for long trips in europe or closer to home, with or without bikes. It's also my only vehicle, though the Mrs has a car for if we want to go further away without much gear. It's also good with the bike garage area for moving big/heavy/dirty stuff for the garden or the building project that we call a house.
Hotel/airbnb can be o.k, but only in cities where there aren't usually any camping options. I'd rather be on a 'free range' style campsite with my van and riding to places from there, or taking 2 mins to pack things up to drive to attractions/riding venues if they're further away.
I can't really see me getting a caravan for a long time, even then I'd probably still want a van for moving bikes and towing it....
It all depends on the sort of places you want to visit and the things you want to do while there.
My 'van' is actually easier to drive than our 'cars' loaded or unloaded. It's even more comfy and a heck of a lot easier in hilly terrain getting up big hills with the additional power, so maybe you've been driving the wrong 'vans'.
Or you've been driving the wrong cars. 😛
One downside of a tent compared to a van or caravan is the need to have somewhere suitable to dry it out once you get home. I appreciate that everyone on STW lives in a detached house with a large, sumptuous lawn but some folk don't have that option.
Yeah, agreed on the tent drying being a problem. We had a massive polycotton tent too so it always needed drying. For years our garden was too small to pitch it. Swapped to a smaller/lower nylon/polyester tent to sort that issue out and to give better resistance to bad weather. Also freed up lots of car boot space.
I have to agree with edukator on some of his points.
Some places have so obviously become victims of the hashtagVanlife****er crowd and I don't blame the local authorities for taking action against them.
WRT the areas behind the bushes in such locations becoming literal open toilets.... It's the day trippers and smaller vans that don't have shitting facilities that are the problem. Generally larger vans have the capacity for pooing onboard.
And it seems that locations popular with climbers are generally the worst, maybe something to do with the climber's more Spartan approach.
Some of the places along the coast in Spain were shocking. 100,000€ monstrosities parked up on bits of wasteland amongst the tomato plantations..... If you're spending that much on a van then surely you can fork out 10-20€ a night for a more suitable location. (Needless to say we didn't stay in the area.)
If you're sure you want to "wild camp" and are sensible about where you park then you can avoid any disturbance. As said previously there are plenty of places where parking up long term isn't an issue.
The point someone made about feeling at home is also valid. I've started in many a hotel room for work and never really enjoyed the experience.
I must be weird because I love a Premier Inn. They feel very plush, homely, comfortable and nice.
My freezing tent feels nothing like that.
When my bigger van comes in, 99% of nights will be at either races or trail center car parks
My daily driver was in for a gearbox linkage bush today so I used the big camper to drop off a bike for some work then went for a big ride while they fixed it.
It was bliss to get back to the van, make a coffee to go with the cornish slab from Robertshaws that I had in the fridge. And a place to have a pee 🙂
One downside of a tent compared to a van or caravan is the need to have somewhere suitable to dry it out once you get home. I appreciate that everyone on STW lives in a detached house with a large, sumptuous lawn but some folk don't have that option.
Volunteer with a local Scout group - most Scout huts have ropes set up to hang tents up to dry
I must be weird because I love a Premier Inn. They feel very plush, homely, comfortable and nice.
We know you're weird 😉
As someone who stays away from home A LOT, when I'm not in the caravan, a Premier Inn will be the very last resort (OK, a Travelodge is the VERY last resort). Horrible soulless places - even the ones that have a bar it's pretty unlikely you're going to interact with anyone remotely interesting.
Give me a decent pub, a room with some character and some locals to chat to any time
We had a smallish motorhome for a few years. Started with a 7 month trip and then used progressively less over the year so sold it.
We sold for about £8k less than we paid for it after about 5 or 6 years - mainly because I needed something to drive everyday, I got a normal van for hauling kit. But we bought in 2004 and the equivalent van is twice the price now.
If you do buy on I would definitely go for something with a toilet for overnight peeing - wouldn't fancy trooping across a campsite in the pissing rain for a piss in the middle of the night. Our van wasn't massive, one pull out double bed, proper kitchen, fridge etc, tiny bathroom. Fitted in a supermarket carpark spaced ( just about). Anything smaller would have been too small for extended trips
As mentioned the big drawback of motorhomes and campers is having to pack everything up every time you want to drive anywhere - but tbh as long as stuff was in cupboards it didn't move about
I wouldn't go full motorhome/campervan again as I need a usable van everyday, but camper box kits for my multivan which would do me for the occasional night away (plus camping toilet) are an option I'm looking at.
One downside of a tent compared to a van or caravan is the need to have somewhere suitable to dry it out once you get home. I appreciate that everyone on STW lives in a detached house with a large, sumptuous lawn but some folk don't have that option.
I just dry mine in my flat. Hang it over a door for 24 hours.
TBH I was thinking about van sized tents. I dry my wee tents in the garage.
OOh - fancy - a garage 🙂
Geological mapping 1981, a garage for my Mini (home) and bike, and my mate's motorbike:
Premier Inn/Travelodge are cheap and secure and plentiful.
That last bit really depends on where you want to go. Looking at a map showing PIs and TLs, very, very few are anywhere I want to visit 😉
The Aviemore one, and going with my preference for weather based therefore last minute trip booking. Is £146 per night. So not exactly cheap.
Plus, it's a pumped up Travel Tavern.
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR I too travel for work and have used Premier Inn because I don't want to talk to anyone, ha ha. I really don't want a conversation with the locals. And I am able to walk from the hotel to a different pub/restaurant.
For the OPs question, I think it depends how much planning / flexibility you want and how you like to travel. We book things well ahead and get stuff cheap because of it, mostly off season (i.e. not July or August when we'll just do day trips). Parkdean and Haven type parks are quiet outside school hols, you get to visit different places, and cost £100-130 for a weekend away. If you are retired you can get a week for not much more when the sales are on in Jan/Feb each year. Similarly b&bs and accommodation on booking.com if you book ahead then you can usually find good value in quiet locations. Also yha / bothy / camping barns. Clearly you won't get stays in tourist hotspots or peak summer season cheaply and then a camper or tent or caravan pitch is 'value' though you do have to deal with other people's behaviours on a busy site. Clearly it's not a purely financial decision and there is some romanticism of being able to drive wherever you fancy and having that freedom, but my experience in peak season is you need to book campsites ahead, so the reality in the UK is different from the expectation. I also prefer smaller off-grid places with a tent.
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR I too travel for work and have used Premier Inn because I don't want to talk to anyone, ha ha. I really don't want a conversation with the locals. And I am able to walk from the hotel to a different pub/restaurant.
This is also me. I want a comfy bed and thats pretty much it. I hate forced conversations.
The point about drying big tents is a good one, but it's similar to Caravans and campers if it's not your daily driver as well. I can fit one car on my drive, (some people don't even have drives!!!) so my van goes on the drive and our small car is parked further up the street. We couldn't fit a caravan on our property so would need to store it somewhere else. Theres another significant cost (it's probably been mentioned already though).
Generally larger vans have the capacity for pooing onboard
Unless the owners implement a no poo rule, as do friends of ours.
I'd guess at least half my friends have some kind of van from T5 up. Never been past a Berlingo car myself, which I do miss. For quick nights away in summer I use a cheap pop up festival tent. Erect before it hits the ground, missis. Chuck in a bouldering mat with some bedding sandwiched inside and you've a boudoir in 5 seconds literally. Doesn't take much longer to pack up.
The missing part of this picture is my wife. Never going to happen and I don't think she'd understand the OP's question. Would you prefer a hotel or<white noise>?
Have we heard enough about driving behind large white box monstrosities? The joys of when one encounters another on a narrow road. Their contribution to the visual environment (picture above of white boxes in a field, some mountains behind)?
And then there's campsites
johnx2
Posts: 4130
Salutary. I am wasting my life...
Unless the owners implement a no poo rule, as do friends of ours.
This is even more so in the caravan community - people have big flash vans and won't poo, won't use the shower, won't cook, some won't even wash the pots. keeping it 'nice' for when they want to sell it. What a waste.
The poo, I sort of get, cos there's the ick of emptying it, but it's not that bad.
I'm on a fully serviced site at the moment, so no need to fill water butts, or empty grey waste hogs. Watched a bloke the other day with a van hooked up to the water tramp across the site in the rain and wind to wash a couple of dishes in the communial area.
I jump out of bed every morning, straight into my shower yet see folk trudging to the shower block to stand on other peoples pubes
I'd argue it's better to allow tourists to occupy campsites than allow airB&B on second homes which raisies rents forcing locals out of their homes and onto campsites. On the local campsite the permanent residents in camper vans or caravans I've spoken too are there because it's all they can afford.
I don't think anyone has complained about drivng behind them till you johnx2. The Col d'Aubsique has a not advised to camper vans sign on it but that doesn't deter them, it's great when two meet in the tunnel. To be honest the open-exhaust-pipe peg-grinding motorcyclists are more of a nuisance/danger and the camper vans have a calming influence on those.
This is also me. I want a comfy bed and thats pretty much it. I hate forced conversations.
No one forces me to talk to anyone, I often keep myself to myself. Have met some really interesting people (as well as some complete bores) and made lifelong friends whilst working away though
In all seriousness its all about the compromises every option has advatages and disadvantages
Yent and hiring the appropriate vehicle is what works for me.
1/4 of the last 3 years has been spent in a tent tho 80 nights of that was in a rooftent which i wouldn't use in Europe
I jump out of bed every morning, straight into my shower yet see folk trudging to the shower block to stand on other peoples pubes
Thanks for that. Going tent camping (toilet but no shower) later this summer and now have that to think about as I trudge to the shower block.
Most shower blocks are pretty decent though, so don't worry. Use someone else's leccy/gas to heat it - you've paid for it !
We went from a T6 camper up to an XLWB Sprinter MX race van & I will happily never spend another night in a camper / motorhome again.
Once we sold it, we even tried camping once, and I can happily say, I’d rather not go away if that was my only choice.
The little one was a total PITA for two people, a dog & bikes, the big one despite being huge, still felt like everyone was climbing on top of each other & always an absolute faff to use. Our rule was having to use it a minimum of 30 nights a year, and all we ended up doing was resenting packing, unpacking, prepping, cleaning & driving a massive, slow & awkward van about.
I’ll happily fund someone’s holiday home venture local to where I want to be & drive our small van there instead.
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR I too travel for work and have used Premier Inn because I don't want to talk to anyone, ha ha. I really don't want a conversation with the locals. And I am able to walk from the hotel to a different pub/restaurant.
For the OPs question, I think it depends how much planning / flexibility you want and how you like to travel. We book things well ahead and get stuff cheap because of it, mostly off season (i.e. not July or August when we'll just do day trips). Parkdean and Haven type parks are quiet outside school hols, you get to visit different places, and cost £100-130 for a weekend away. If you are retired you can get a week for not much more when the sales are on in Jan/Feb each year. Similarly b&bs and accommodation on booking.com if you book ahead then you can usually find good value in quiet locations. Also yha / bothy / camping barns. Clearly you won't get stays in tourist hotspots or peak summer season cheaply and then a camper or tent or caravan pitch is 'value' though you do have to deal with other people's behaviours on a busy site. Clearly it's not a purely financial decision and there is some romanticism of being able to drive wherever you fancy and having that freedom, but my experience in peak season is you need to book campsites ahead, so the reality in the UK is different from the expectation. I also prefer smaller off-grid places with a tent.
Most shower blocks are pretty decent though, so don't worry. Use someone else's leccy/gas to heat it - you've paid for it !
Oh we're well versed in campsites, lots of years and experience of various standards. There's some right clarty buggers out there, thankfully manky toilet blocks are the exception rather than the rule I find.
I'm currently tenting (stop it) as it works well for longer family hols - great big polycotton airbeam. Not cheap but far less outlay than the caravan or campervan we can't afford or justify. That may change in future if what we're willing to compromise on changes.
The poo, I sort of get, cos there's the ick of emptying it, but it's not that bad
Yeah. It's easy, just do it regularly, especially if it's hot. Anyway, we did have a caravan, not for holidays, but for living in during some building works. Having done a summer in it, some of house was habitable so we moved in and in the excitement/work of doing so forgot about the caravan for a few hot weeks in September. Anyway, I finally remembered and went to check how full the cassette was by opening the flapper door. By this point some serious hot-weather induced shit pressure had built up, and flipping open the flapper door resulted in a huge upwards explosion of our shit into my face as I was peering closer for a look. Most of the toilet/shower room was covered, but my face took the brunt of it.
Don't do that.
... Just thought of another issue with motorhomes or any camper higher than a standard Traffic/Vivaro/Transporter
Lots of places in France, especially beaches, have height restriction barriers to prevent people parking up motorhomes/ big campers in car parks and staying overnight (or for a whole holiday in many cases).
It was becoming a pain for us by 2010 as although we'd pay for a campsite we would want to drive to beach for surfing. I imagine it's even stricter now
This is a by-product of just how popular motorhomes are in France, Germany and NL. Basically huge numbers up sticks and drive to Atlantic coast for weeks on end - free camping in car parks and basically anywhere a van would fit.
... Just thought of another issue with motorhomes or any camper higher than a standard Traffic/Vivaro/Transporter
Lots of places in France, especially beaches, have height restriction barriers to prevent people parking up motorhomes/ big campers in car parks and staying overnight (or for a whole holiday in many cases).
It was becoming a pain for us by 2010 as although we'd pay for a campsite we would want to drive to beach for surfing. I imagine it's even stricter now
This is a by-product of just how popular motorhomes are in France, Germany and NL. Basically huge numbers up sticks and drive to Atlantic coast for weeks on end - free camping in car parks and basically anywhere a van would fit.
A few places in Morzine have it, like the Nyon car-park. Although last year the barrier was open on 50% of it.
