[Closed] Cameron blames teachers for decline in school sport

not to mention the pressure on teachers to get kids to meet targets set by the government and the rigidity of the curriculums required to do this , meaning that most schools necesarily focus on getting kids through SATS and examines rather than looking at education in the broader sense

He was never going to blame Thatcher, who started the schoolfield sell off.

But for what its worth going out and being made to play football was something I loathed, I was bad at it, I hated it, no-one (quiet rightly) picked me to be on their team.

"Make it yours " the teacher would yell.
"But sir I don't want... certainly nowhere near as much as him, he really wants it sir, it would seem mean to deprive him of it for sport..."

that went down well...

Worse still sometimes I would quite by accident end up with it. then I had to make a decision. Quite a complicated one as there were many factors to consider. "Well I could pass it to Phil, or to Nathan, Nathan is by far the better pair of hands, or I suppose feet, to pass it to, but he seems a little surrounded. I could even have a pop at goal, though the last time I had a pop at goal I hit a dinner lady and she was off work for a month... Oh, someone's taken it away. Never mind. Why does everyone look angry with me?"

I think a different attitude to sport would help, more options. One school I went to made us do Cross country running. You could walk the 4 miles, or run it. But we soon realised if we ran it, we got the next hour doing nothing, sitting about.

Teachers are put under a great deal of pressure re league tables.. but they also have to take some of the blame.. I dont know a single one of my wife's colleagues who undertakes any kind of out of school sporting activity with the pupils.

I blame Brian Glover

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Call-me-Dave is absolutely unbelievable.

Between him and Gideon they'll blame just about anyone for just about anything. With the aid of their brain-dead, foaming, right-wing attack dogs in the press. Bonus points if it clearly and obviously the Tory's fault through their *ing twisted and nasty ideology, and if the group being scapegoated are unable to fight back

*s!!!

But for what its worth going out and being made to play football was something I loathed, I was bad at it, I hated it, no-one (quiet rightly) picked me to be on their team.

"Make it yours " the teacher would yell.
"But sir I don't want... certainly nowhere near as much as him, he really wants it sir, it would seem mean to deprive him of it for sport..."

I think a different attitude to sport would help, more options. One school I went to made us do Cross country running. You could walk the 4 miles, or run it. But we soon realised if we ran it, we got the next hour doing nothing, sitting about.

From what I can see, he has called for a more competitive ethos, so more sports teachers yelling make it yours, and not more options which would after all require Government investment.

elzorillo - I'd love to spend more time on extra-curricula sports. However - if I don't spend my lunch and after school - doing 'catch up' sessions to 'squeeze the best grades' out of some pupils - I wouldn't have any job.
Poor political management of target grades and league table have ruined learning.

Nor is it down to teachers that playing fields are being sold off despite election promises.

The article doesn't give figures - Michael Gove has personally authorized the sale of 21 school playing fields in 26 months.

I don't know whether the last Labour government's record was any better though as the both follow the same basic economic policies, ie, sell off the family silver for the short term gain of reducing the need to increase taxes to pay for failed economic policies/unemployment.

When it's gone it's gone.

unklehomered's post made me think of:

I dont know a single one of my wife's colleagues who undertakes any kind of out of school sporting activity with the pupils.

Erm... why should teachers be doing [i]"out of school"[/i] (and presumably unpaid) sporting activity?

Kids should get regular sports IN school, not have to rely on extra-curricular activities.

The article doesn't give figures - Michael Gove has personally authorized the sale of 21 school playing fields in 26 months.

somewhat predictably the Guardian et al have selectively presented the facts and missed out the most relevant bits which are as follows - of the 21 playing fields approved for sale, 14 were at schools that had closed, and a further four were deemed surplus after existing schools amalgamated.

Of the other three, one was extra grassland at a school site, one was leased to a company for it to redevelop and improve a playing field and the third was due to be leased to an athletics club, although this did not go ahead.

I suppose they could have written the articles with a headline of "Gove hasn't sold off any playing fields at schools that remain open or not amalgamated" but that would have prevented the usual frothing from Islington's chattering classes.

Erm... why should teachers be doing "out of school" (and presumably unpaid) sporting activity?

Kids should get regular sports IN school, not have to rely on extra-curricular activities.

Just pointing out the apparent change in mindset of teachers from when I was a child.

My understanding is that the teachers will get the blame for everything but the real problem is the amount of government interference. It's not the colour of the tie they wear but the need they have to try and "do something" to improve the situation when they would be better off not doing anything and leaving people alone - See also NHS.

My experience of school sport is that it was mostly teachers giving up their time outside of normal working hours that made the difference.
Team sports at weekends, before and after school training sessions. If you want more teachers to get involved and more kids then you will need to make allowances in the timetable.

I dont know a single one of my wife's colleagues who undertakes any kind of out of school sporting activity with the pupils.

And why should they? How many parents are prepared to put in this sort of time effort?

There has been a change in mindset of teachers yes but it goes back a very very long way. I was in school in the '80s and pretty much all the clubs and extra curricular activities stopped as a result of the teachers strikes. After that I suppose that teachers decided that rather than do a whole load of unpaid overtime they would rather spend time with their own kids than look after other peoples. Add to this the current pressure of league tables and results and I can't really say that I blame them if I'm honest.

Just pointing out the apparent change in mindset of teachers from when I was a child.

Who's going to pay for the insurance to cover out of school sports? The conservatives? **** no. How many teachers know how to carry out proper risk assessments? How many teachers are also wary of after school activities in case someone accuses them of being a paedo?

Also being a teacher is a 9-5, have you not thought they might have their own families to look after when they finish?

Typically, the Daily Mail reading public wolf down the drivel spouted by the Daily Mail when it comes to public sector workers such as doctors, teachers, the police etc. The public and politicians get the services they deserve. Joe Public = "Wah wah wahhhh it's all the fault of lefty union supporting teachers, that my childs a badly behaved obese retarded monkey" - or "Wah wah wahhhh it's all the doctors fault that I got an incurable disease no one could have predicted".

Farmer John, that's the second time I've read you mentioning these "Islington chattering classes" on here recently.

I am intruiged: where might I sign up for one, and would my local adult education centre put one on in the evening for those of us with day jobs?

The article doesn't give figures - Michael Gove has personally authorized the sale of 21 school playing fields in 26 months.

It's up to 22 now.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/aug/07/school-playing-field-sell-offs-rise

I thought that "Islington chattering classes" was just lazy, dismissive Daily Mail shorthand for "Anyone who can see the Tory's for the shysters they are"

somewhat predictably the Guardian et al have selectively presented the facts and missed out the most relevant bits which are as follows - of the 21 playing fields approved for sale, 14 were at schools that had closed, and a further four were deemed surplus after existing schools amalgamated.

Somewhat predictably you've said something which could come straight from a Tory party press release, without providing any evidence or links.

It's outrageous for Cameron to have a go at state school teachers - but this is part of their systematic policy of blaming everyone except those really responsible.

All this crap about how the problem is state schools don't believe in competition etc - nothing to do with the differing level of facilities/coaching on offer obviously. 🙄

EEEEEeeeeeee...........when I were a lad.................

Hang on a minute, I'm all for a bit of Tory bashing, but have things really changed that much in the 8 years since I left? Most terms there was a choice between at least 2 sports which meant that on the whole I could avoid football and play rugby and use the fitness 'gym' rather than do gymnastics, and out of a year of 200 kids there were 2 footbal teams, rugby, cricket and basketball, not accounting for some people playing more than one that's 70+ players out of ~100 boys. And that's not including that pretty much everyone played football in dinner times over the summer months.

Cameron is an ar*e. Sorry, too late in the day to put forward a structured argument.

Hang on a minute, I'm all for a bit of Tory bashing, but have things really changed that much in the 8 years since I left?

Well one of the first things they did was to get rid of the huge school sports partnership funding programme. I imagine they will probably have reannounced some of it under a new name as if it's brand new funding though.

More than 70 top British athletes, including Olympic heptathlon champion Lewis and world diving champion Tom Daley, wrote to Mr Cameron saying that ending the partnerships was "ill-conceived" and risked efforts to deliver a "genuine legacy" from the 2012 London Olympics, in terms of encouraging sports participation.

Sports leaders in the region have highlighted the case of Cambridgeshire which has seen 43% more children in primary schools taking part in sport within the SSP since 2005.

But of course no minister is interested in inheriting and carrying on a successful scheme, as they don't get to take the credit for it.

Lets not forget that the teaching union has instructed their members to undertake NO out of school activities outside contracted hours.

Grum - sorry to disappoint - the text is from a DfE press release quoted in The Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/london-2012-legacy-uncertain-as-school-playing-fields-sold-off-8014903.html

I went to school in St Helens. As far as school sports were concerned we had a choice of rugby, rugby or rugby. In all weathers

I absolutely ****ing [b]HATE[/b] rugby!!

Grum - sorry to disappoint - the text is from a DfE press release

So I was pretty much right that it's a Tory press release you were parroting then.

A lot of my peers were put off school sports in the 80s (in Hull). Nothing to do with field sell-offs as ours were left alone. It was more to do with creepy (alleged) paedo PE teacher who "had" to watch us to make sure we took showers. And the fact we used to play football and rugby shirts and skins because "tabards are for poofters", as was moaning because you were cold, you got fouled etc. Cross country was especially fun, we'd set off at once and the fast ones (luckily including me) would finish our miles in, say 20 odd minutes and then get changed and sit indoors waiting for the slow kids to come in over the next hour to cat calls and jeering FROM THE TEACHERS.

Ahh... great days

Grum - I'd quite like to see you telling a Whitehall press officer that they are a Tory mouthpiece. Good luck with that one.

10,000 were disposed of between 1979 and 1997.

Is the telling detail from that independent story.

Those sold by the current and previous government just pale into insignificance. A massive change in priorities is required.

Education should be about more than preparing children for a life as working drones, sport is about quality of life and habits need to start young.

When I suggested that perhaps the attitude towards sport and sporting acheivement in the UK was a wee bit poor on an Olympic themed thread, this is exactly what I meant.

Somewhat disingenuous to cheer on our brave boys and girls yet ignore the fact that sport in the UK is considered a waste of resources..

Such utter tosh and red herrings from both the government and the media over last few weeks on sports in schools and percentage of Olympians that went to public schools etc. Most kids at state school who show any talent at sport go for football, most fail by the time they are 18 so how is this the fault of the schools ? These kids (and their parents) are never going to be persuaded from this course, they are not going to go for javelin, sprinting, rowing, tennis, cycling. And the culture of competition/noncompetition at schools will not make a blind bit of difference to this. There is an absolutely huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and those blinkers are awfully large.

klunk - i dont think the issue here is building a future olympic dominating world force

its about getting kids into the habit of sport and exercise early,
it helps with behaviour, mental health, improves grades overall and we are sitting on an obesity time bomb, its already costing the country and is a massive burden hanging over the nhs

its plainly obvious that the government dont give a flying one either, eg gove making it so his pet schools can sell whatever junk food they like in vending machines etc

Farmer_John - Member

somewhat predictably the Guardian ......... usual frothing from Islington's chattering classes.

And how terribly predictable that you should lay into the Guardian before anyone had actually mentioned the Guardian or provided any link to it.

BTW the irony of you accusing others of "frothing" after your little rant isn't lost on me.

But for what its worth going out and being made to play football was something I loathed, I was bad at it, I hated it, no-one (quiet rightly) picked me to be on their team.

Pretty much mirrors my own experiences.

"Picking teams", that hateful practice of allowing the best sporty kids to display to everyone else just how shit they thought you were. Me being chosen usually came down to "well, it's either Cougar or the fat kid, so I suppose we'll have to have Cougar."

I have pretty keen hand-eye coordination these days but at school I was terrible. Runt of the litter and all over the place. One good thing I extract from Facebook is a little bit of satisfying schadenfreude that most of the sporty kids from school are now balding bloaters who've been retaining Stella for the last twenty years.

* Erm... why should teachers be doing "out of school" (and presumably unpaid) sporting activity?

Kids should get regular sports IN school, not have to rely on extra-curricular activities.

Just pointing out the apparent change in mindset of teachers from when I was a child.POSTED 2 HOURS AGO #
 REPORT-POST

*

this is odd because all the schools I have worked have run no end of sports outside of normal school hours and still do despite what the unions say.

In many ways it was the "competitive ethos" that ruined school sports, I loved football so didn't mind that we were always playing matches, but there was no concept of training to improve.

Hated cross country, which I quite enjoy now, but there was again no training everything was a race, no just doing different training sessions to improve speed and fitness then having a race at the end of every month, which is how it should be done.

Its obviously nice to win, and I am not against competition, but if we are to teach kids to enjoy sports it also needs to be about making personal improvements and achievements.

I think school games are part of the problem, for those who like football, rugby and cross country your fine, for the rest might as well stick you in the stocks for all the encouragement it gives.

For all those quick to blame school sports, how long ago did you do it?

I recall our sports fields, acres, acres and more acres of muddy grass with a prevailing wind that meant you could kick the ball forward and watch it turn in flight, that bore little purpose other than to make the cross country run longer and wetter.

Quality of sporting provision surely has to be more important than the total area of land devoted to it?

nothings changed...

Some kids don't like PE, some do.

Some teachers are good, lots aren't.

Though we seem to have done well since the changes.

Enforced sport as opposed to concentrating on those that actually want to take part.
It's like the difficulties have sorted the wheat from the chaff.

Not an opinion, just a view.

What a surprise that what he actually said and what is reported and headlined are subtedly different. Not that this seems to matter for some. So:

1. Setting quantitative targets for hours of sports doesn't work.
2. Spending money is important but not the only answer
3. The anti-competitive ethos has not been beneficial (ie, prizes for all)
4. [b]" Some"[/b] teachers have "have not wanted to join in and play their part."

And the controversial bit is?

But hardly a topic for a one-size-fits-all solution anyway as responses above suggest. Unlikely that politicians will deliver the correct solutions as they will be too busy scoring points of each other rather than scoring goals!

Gov should prioritise participation and enjoymanent first and foremost. With the possible exception of lottery funding, the biological, economic, societal, and personal factors (among other) that determine future success at the elite level are unlikely to be delivered centrally from Whitehall.

(Binners, was that Cowley by any chance? They did take it all a bit seriously in the 70s/80s with several England internationals from what I recall)

"well, it's either Cougar or the fat kid, so I suppose we'll have to have Cougar."

Were you called Cougar at school too? 😯

That must have been cool, man. 🙂

"We need a big cultural change - a cultural change in favour of competitive sports," he said.
"The problem has been too many schools not wanting to have competitive sport, some teachers not wanting to join in and play their part."

Thats what he actually said, they never miss a chance to blame teachers. Oh and Gove will not prioritise enjoyment, he must have his losers.

"We need a big cultural change - a cultural change in favour of competitive sports," he said.
"The problem has been too many schools not wanting to have competitive sport, some teachers not wanting to join in and play their part."

And the controversial bit is?

I'd like to know what evidence he is basing all of the above on, or is it just his personal hunch/prejudice?

With the possible exception of lottery funding, the biological, economic, societal, and personal factors (among other) that determine future success at the elite level are unlikely to be delivered centrally from Whitehall.

Money helps. Really this is about covering up the cuts being made, and finding that scapegoat.

Perhaps that's why he said some, not all?

The teacher bit seemed a minor element of a an interview that largely devalued by political point scoring. But guess which bit made the headlines!

Schools are mostly run by teachers are they not?
Evidence? Who needs that?

Teamhm do you think they dont know which bits will be picked up on?

I doubt CMD's research went much beyond:

Despite Britain's success during the Olympics, Lord Moynihan, the country's Olympic chief, has bemoaned the fact that a disproportionate number of gold medalists are the product of private education. According to Lord Moynihan, that more than 50 per cent of medalists at the last Games in Beijing came from independent schools is something that should concern those in the state sector and the government, too. The fact that half of Britain's medals come from a sector that represents a mere seven per cent of the population is, he said, the "worst statistics in British sport".

Consequently, he has called on the government to redress the balance by overhauling the approach of state schools towards sport."There is so much talent out there in the 93% that should be identified and developed," he commented. "That has got to be a priority for future sports policy. I have spoken about it many times and I will continue to speak about it until there is not breath left in me."

A number of advocates of the private model have argued that its success is based on the idea that competition is actively encouraged in such schools.By contrast, they claim that state schools tow a politically correct line, thereby sending out the message that winning is not too important. However, those on the other side of the debate have pointed out that football - the country's most popular sport - is dominated by people from a working-class background, suggesting that much of the alleged underachievement can be linked to a lack of opportunities, not a lack of talent.

"Football is different, it is an interesting example," Lord Moynihan reflected. "The balance of professional football is that around seven per cent of players come from the private sector, which is an absolute mirror image of society. "That should be the case in every single sport and that should be the priority in each and every sport and that is something that every government should strive for."

edit: A-A, you would hope so, they are supposedly trained for that! But listening to the broadcast it didn;t come across as an attack on the profession itself. But I guess we all perceive it differently.

3. The anti-competitive ethos has not been beneficial (ie, prizes for all)

Which 'anti-competitive ethos'? Does that really exist? Has anyone actually seen this first hand (as opposed to 'friend of a friend' stories about everyone's a winner races and rubbish like that?)

4. " Some" teachers have "have not wanted to join in and play their part."

What do you mean their part? If they're not PE teachers, then their job is not to organise sports. If they are PE teachers, then their job is to organise PE during their working day. Along with that, the failure to prioritize sport in the school rankings etc. has meant that many schools have stopped employing specialist PE teachers at all.

Organising out of school sports clubs is something that teachers can choose to volunteer for, but it is hard to argue that by not doing that, they are 'not taking their part'. Coincidentally in a lot of private schools, teachers are paid to do out of core hours stuff like organise sports teams, so more of it gets done.

Arguing that teachers have a duty to do out of school sports, is pretty hypocritical unless you also volunteer time at your workplace to run out of work time sporting activities for your colleagues and think that everyone should do the same.

The depressing thing about this speech is that it is just a rehash of big speeches that Tessa Jowell made (apparently in 2004) about doing sports days and all that.
( http://www.****/news/article-105459/Put-Sports-Day-track-schools-told.html# )

Personally, I am pretty fit, I've cycled most places since I was about 6 and continue to do so, swum most weeks (and nowadays swim quite a lot, and run a bit too). I really hated PE though. It was a load of rubbish, only really aimed at people who were good at a particular small range of competitive sports (rugby, football, cricket, basketball etc.), and with no real support for anyone other than the good kids. It didn't 'build my character', it just meant that I grew up into someone who didn't give a damn about those sports, and who only does exercise because I've always ridden bikes for fun. If I hadn't have been a cyclist in the first place, I'm sure I'd be like many people I know, and do next to no exercise now.

All this talk of 'competition' ignores the fact that inter-school competitive sport, sports days etc. only really help with the fitness of people who are gifted at those sports, who by definition are usually pretty fit and active already. What about focusing on how exercise can be a fun and fulfilling thing to do, how even if you are a fat slacker, going on a bike ride or going for a swim can be a laugh, and coincidentally how it feels nice to be fit and fast.

The teacher bit seemed a minor element of a an interview that largely devalued by political point scoring. But guess which bit made the headlines!

The OP's link was to the Daily Telegraph, what "political point scoring" do you think the Daily Telegraph was engaged in ? They certainly thought "the teacher bit" warranted a rather large article.

Perhaps they did Ernie, which is exactly why its important to understand in-built biases. "Some" if not "all" history (and economics teachers) might get and teach that as well as sport!

3. The anti-competitive ethos has not been beneficial (ie, prizes for all)

Is there any evidence that this "anti-competitive ethos" actually exists anywhere other than in the fevered minds of daily mail letter writers?

I don't often agree with Cameron, but I think he has a point.

So if we say private education is better for gold medals can we assume that state/almost no education is better for being a premier league footballer or that private is better for english rugby players but not welsh? Or are much bigger forces at work here than schooling?

I put it down to whatever climatic cycle we're going through for each generation.

I heard the the cuban missile crisis was the teachers fault as well.

Were you called Cougar at school too?

That must have been cool, man.

Well no, but I'm not typing on a public forum the nicknames they did have for me.

"Cougar" came about in college.

What about focusing on how exercise can be a fun and fulfilling thing to do, how even if you are a fat slacker, going on a bike ride or going for a swim can be a laugh, and coincidentally how it feels nice to be fit and fast.

Bang on.

Politician in crass "completely out of touch" shocker.

The last lot were especially bad at this, as were the bunch of imbeciles that came before. The only good thing I can say about the current bunch is that they at least haven't tried lying to justify an illegal war or two. Yet.

Hated school sports because they were competitive. I'm a geek and have not one competitive bone in my body. It was only as an adult that I realised I could enjoy and become immersed in exercise/activity without competition. E.g. cycling, hiking, munro-bagging, fitness-classes, power kites etc.

The only good thing I can say about the current bunch is that they at least haven't tried lying to justify an illegal war or two.

What's that got to do with sports in schools ?

Just fancied a random dig at the last government ?

BTW, if this government isn't prepared to justify illegal wars can we expect some arrests quite soon ?

Politician in crass "completely out of touch" shocker.

And this is a surprise, he's from a PR background? From my few interactions with such beasts those working in that field have a tenuous grasp on reality at the best of times. 😈

which is exactly why its important to understand in-built biases

I teach physics and was visited by one who student who came back from university with a 1st 🙂

I also run a after school science club - turning into a geek club 😆

I volunteer in a running club after school and demanded more funding for gym equipment before being told sorry no more funds by bosses 🙁

My problem? bad parents who don't give a dam about kids roaming the streets till 2am.

Lack of funding and stupid decisions - like anything else/business in this world.

Going to leave this career due to being blamed by society even though scoring excellent in ofsted, bad parenting and offered a role with twice the wage and less hours 🙂

Blimey, JY, that's not your smartest. Perhaps, it is you who is missing you-know-who? 😉

Just fancied a random dig at the last government ?

Yup. Totally justifiable IMHO. And the government before that was shocking too.

My antipathy towards politicians knows no party bias.

What's that got to do with sports in schools ?

Quite a bit actually. I know a few teachers who resent the last government's target driven educational ethos, to the extent where they felt hamstrung.

nor is that your dumbest 8)

No, the dumbest thing I did was to think that someone who complained frequently and recently about ad hominem attacks was also good to his word! As, I said not the smartest.

Its obviously nice to win, and I am not against competition, but if we are to teach kids to enjoy sports it also needs to be about making personal improvements and achievements.

+1, all sports when I was at school in the 90's and early 2000's were just competitions against each other. No training or setting personal goals at all. Your end of term report was based on how well you stacked up against the others in a narrow range of sports, not your own improvement/effort over time. PE was setup for all the thick skulled monkeys.

The only good thing I can say about the current bunch is that they at least haven't tried lying to justify an illegal war or two.

[b]What's that got to do with sports in schools ?[/b]

Quite a bit actually. I know a few teachers who resent the last government's target driven educational ethos, to the extent where they felt hamstrung.

I only come here for the intellectually stimulating debates.

I loved PE at school, does that make me a thick skulled monkey? I think your knickers are showing by the way.

teamhurtmore - Member

Perhaps they did Ernie, which is exactly why its important to understand in-built biases. "Some" if not "all" history (and economics teachers) might get and teach that as well as sport!

teamhurtmore - Member

Blimey, JY, that's not your smartest. Perhaps, it is you who is missing you-know-who?

THM, I think it is important to understand the difference in what/how/where and to whom the actual teachers that have contributed to this thread do actually teach. ...and were educated themselves?

...and the potential in-built biases they may have that may arise from these.

(Since this debate would seem to have arisen from the disproprtionate quantity of public/private educated olympians this year, it does not seem unfair to imagine that Cameron is directing these comments towards state-funded schools.)

At the end of the day as prime minister is he not the teachers boss, so if he thinks like that then he should tell them what to do, simple. He's the leader of the country so if he wants something changed then CHANGE IT!!!

Successive governments have so called passed power down to local bodies, hospitals, schools, etc so they can't be blamed when something goes wrong and can say it is out if our hands, but still complain and meddle when they don't like something. If something goes wrong in a school then it the Education minister's fault and then the prime ministers fault just like in a business. Its called taking responsibility as the boss.

Oh and why not insist kids have an hour of exercise a day. Anything from running around the play ground playing British bull dog to proper PE lessons. 2 hours a week isn't really much is it. Are we going to end up as a nation with loads of really brainy kids with loads of GCSE's and A levels but not wanting to do the manual jobs and all fat with diabetes.

julianwilson - Member
THM, I think it is important to understand the difference in what/how/where and to whom the actual teachers that have contributed to this thread do actually teach. ...and were educated themselves?

I agree entirely. The highlighted quotes were merely responses to digs that betray an element of STW history that goes with engaging in debate with people who have broadly differing views. All part of the fun up to a point.

But schooling is, as A-A pointed out only one part of a much wider issue about the role of sport and achieving success. I repeat that I agree with L Moynihan that the statistic regarding medals/education is a poor reflection but doubt that the causation is as direct as politicians will have us believe. As I said before, I think there needs to be a separation between the concept of encouraging participation and enjoyment of school sport and the winning of gold medals/elite performance. Neither can be addressed in the same way.

To the extent that they have responsibilities as woody points out, I believe that politicians with responsibilities for education should concentrate on the former. This is also what Jessica Ennis was saying yesterday. Concentrate first and foremost on enjoyment. The commitment, focus, required support, funding, volunteers, paid coaching, genes and above all TIME and SELF DRIVE etc that determines elite performance are all beyond realistic expectations of what governments can and should be aiming to achieve unless you want to return to the sport = national pride era of the 1970s/80s with all that this entailed.

The trouble with politicising this and drawing the private/public school issue into the debate is that it obscures the lessons that can be drawn. So I would agree with Dr Seldon the Head of Wellington College (yes, I get the bias up front) when he says:

But if we have a broader vision of what it means to be human, and to acknowledge that our humanity includes our sporting prowess, our artistic faculties, our moral sensibilities and spiritual quest, to say nothing of the development of good character prized since the ancient Greeks, [u]then we would wish our schools to educate the whole child. Children from less-privileged backgrounds depend even more on their schools to give them this extracurricular enrichment.[/u]

Howard Gardner, the Harvard Professor, says that we have not one but a whole variety of intelligences, and the sovereign responsibility of schools is to identify and nurture all of them. [u]If we do not offer this breadth in our schools, we patronise children and deny them the opportunities of the rich heritage that is the birthright of every child in Britain.[/u]

[b]Why should extensive provision for all in the arts, across the sports, in adventure and character education be largely the preserve of the better-off children who attend independent schools?[/b] State schools may lack the facilities, the length in the school day and the staff expertise to offer this same breadth of education. But why should we accept the status quo? The school days can be lengthened, as some academies have done, independent schools and others can help with facilities, and skilled volunteers can help run out-of-class activities.

The Government is playing its part...{deletes the Wellington PR bit here, to return to the point].... [b]but needs to go further and tell schools that extra-curricular activities should be offered widely to all, and that academic standards will not be jeopardised, but enhanced by doing so.[/b]

The vision and inspiration that heads could offer their staff and pupils at the start of the coming academic year, inspired by the Olympics, could blow away and delight their teachers and students. [u]May our whole school system be re-forged in steel by these Games.[/u]

Why should extensive provision for all in the arts, across the sports, in adventure and character education be largely the preserve of the better-off children who attend independent schools?

It shouldn't, but it's just an issue of money - they have more, they can afford better. Fund state schools better through higher taxes/better tax enforcement on the wealthy. That's what it comes down to.

but needs to go further and tell schools that extra-curricular activities should be offered widely to all, and that academic standards will not be jeopardised, but enhanced by doing so.

Oh right, that will sort it then.

Well Grum, that's the interesting point that CMD has bought out into the open. Is it simply an issue of money? I somehow doubt it. And what is wrong with the final comment ie, recognising that education in not just about exams and sport/other activities can enhance academic achievement or as Seldon would say "education."

One of the ironies of all this is the role of lottery funding. As cycling and rowing both pointed out, lottery funding was a critical factor. So a negative form of taxation helps fund sporting success for the few - we really do live in an odd world of contradictions!

To the extent that they have responsibilities as woody points out, I believe that politicians with responsibilities for education should concentrate on the former. This is also what Jessica Ennis was saying yesterday. Concentrate first and foremost on enjoyment. The commitment, focus, required support, funding, volunteers, paid coaching, genes and above all TIME and SELF DRIVE etc that determines elite performance are all beyond realistic expectations of what governments can and should be aiming to achieve unless you want to return to the sport = national pride era of the 1970s/80s with all that this entailed.

So you have changed your mind then THM from your earlier assertions agreeing with DC that a more competitive ethos was the solution