Been borrowing a dewalt choppy (DWS777-QS). Don't like it. Spindly thing, plasticy, alu plates on the rear seem to be made of cheese (and as such I've removed them). On top of that the cutting depth is crap.
Want something with a decent cutting depth.
Looking at the big Dewalt, Makita LS1219L or the big Bosch GCM 12 GDL. Can't bring myself to fork out for the big Festool Kapex (at least 550€ - or 32 crates of Augustiner - more than any of the other saws!).
What you got? What you recommend?
Wa Gwan.
I've got the Bosch. It is the absolute shizzle if I'm honest. I've used most of the bigger chop saws on site and in other workshops and I am always soooo glad to come back to my Bosch. Mine is the dual pipe slider job. I believe they do a hinged version now. Not tried that but can see the benefit if you need it against a wall and that.
The reason I got it originally is that it has the largest cross-cut capacity of them all (Not sure if that still stands)
I have mine hooked up to a Karcher vac underneath on a home-made mitre station and the dust extraction is fantastic(when you remember to change the bag)
It's a real beauty of a machine. Cuts really nicely, very accurate, lot's of opportunity for fine adjustment.
In my humble opinion, the Festool Kapex is carp. Like many of their tools (although I don't deny they are real innovators) it's different for the sake of being different.
The handle on it is just not ergonomically comfortable like on the bosch. That sort of pistol grip is not nearly as intuitive and comfortable as on the Bosch, or indeed other saws like the Dewalt. You have to put a weird twist in your wrist to use it. I've used it all day when I subbie for another workshop and man, I hate that thing.
I've used the big Dewalt on site too. I mean, it's good and it's a beast, but it just doesn't feel as refined as the Bosch.
I'll recommend the Bosch all day long to anyone who'll listen... 😊
If you're anywhere near Warwick, pop in and try it.
That's clearly a well used saw...complete with blood stains on the floor...
#everydaysexism
I believe they do a hinged version now.
They do, and have been for around 5 or 6 years. I’ve had one for ages. It is the absolute shizzle. The sealed bearings in the hinges are as smooth now as the day it came out of the box. I transport it on the trolley with the extendable arms. My favourite moment on site is when other chippies make sex noises as they check out the slide backward and forwards. 😂
Cons are plenty though. The laser works for around a month, then it just becomes a guide as to where the saw will cut. It is ****ing heavy!! A two man lift to get it up stairs. Detaching it from the trolley makes it slightly easier, but it’s such an unbalanced load, it’s really difficult to move by yourself. Blades are expensive - you’ll be lucky to get one for under €100.
For a choppie choppie, it’s very safe. All adjustments for bevel etc are done from the front so no reaching around the back of the saw to adjust. Lovely little features for end-stop cuts. The double bevel is amazing for doing BIIIIGGGGG angled cuts. Hitched up to an extractor, the extraction isn’t too bad. You do feel like the big swinging willy man when you wheel it onto a work site. 😂
Watch out for narrow doorways.
^^ Yeah.
We had one girl working for us in the workshop.
Couldn't do anything alone that involved lifting, pulling a pump truck, working outside in the rain, etc. And she had to question everything all the fin time. She lasted about a fortnight.
It's nice to see a lady on site, but there's generally a reason that trades are male dominated.
The handle on it is just not ergonomically comfortable like on the bosch. That sort of pistol grip is not nearly as intuitive and comfortable as on the Bosch, or indeed other saws like the Dewalt. You have to put a weird twist in your wrist to use it.
there’s a rationale for it being like that - you’re pulling down on the centre line of the blade (it’s also ambidextrous ) the conventional design with the handle offset to the right means you’re putting a twisting force on the frame and runners as you pull down and that can effect the accuracy of the cut.
really where the kapex scores points is if you travel with it - very compact and light for its capacity and cleaner if you’re in non workshop / building site scenarios .
but you don’t want one.
im surprised you managed to find a bad dewalt. Mitre saws seem to be one of the things they do consistently well. I have a 250mm non-slider which has been kicked from pillar to post for over 10 years and is still spot on for quick accurate cutting
no real experience of makita apart from their bottom of the range stuff which seem to have very barky, jolty motors (and a pistol grip that you reallly feel that jolt through)
i had a Bosch 14” blade job that had a guard design that would unscrew itself in use then throw itself into the blade / at the user . Binned it after two expensive repairs / three quite scary episodes. I had other let downs with Bosch stuff at the time so have never really considered their stuff since
I feel inadequate as only have a small Bosch GCM800 but it is fab. I used to get a discount on Bosch so went all out and got their table which is also great. Most of my tools are Bosch and they don't seem to ever die.
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This thingy... Alu bent to buggery, now removed. I find the action real jerky.
The stand is pretty solid, mind... And long!
Also speaking to a tool repair guy he said the problem with dewalt is that you can't easily open a lot of their stuff without having to buy new housing or clips if and when you need to repair them.
Yeah Bosch are dope.
When I was the technician on a furniture course, we had them in every year for a demo. Always impressive, always innovative with tools and battery tech.
I have their tiny little 12v drill too with all the different attachable heads. It's brilliant.
Yeah, any of the big chop saws are going to be a struggle to lug about on site. I can't see that the Bosch would be any bigger than any of the other ones.
Kapex handle - there’s a rationale for it being like that – you’re pulling down on the centre line of the blade (it’s also ambidextrous ) the conventional design with the handle offset to the right means you’re putting a twisting force on the frame and runners as you pull down and that can effect the accuracy of the cut.
I agree that being ambidextrous is handy, but the other reason, surely you've got bigger problems if your whole saw is twisting just by being operated? The handle isn't really directly linked to the blade carrier assembly anyway. I'd be surprised if a saw was feeble enough to deflect with that style of handle, and would avoid using it if it did.
Anyway, I've used many of the makes extensively, and the Festool is absolutely the one I dislike using the most. It's all personal of course, though I always do kick off a bit about Festool in general, as I believe they're bought as they have cultivated a perceived superiority over other tools that's not based in reality, or at least not universally anyway. A bit like Santa Cruz... 😉
The stowed away angle-finder on the Kapex is cool though, I'll give it that! 😂
It’s nice to see a lady on site, but there’s generally a reason that trades are male dominated.
Is this the sort of crap we want to read on here?
Alpin has form for ****ty opinions on gender on here.
I agree that being ambidextrous is handy, but the other reason, surely you’ve got bigger problems if your whole saw is twisting just by being operated? The handle isn’t really directly linked to the blade carrier assembly anyway. I’d be surprised if a saw was feeble enough to deflect with that style of handle, and would avoid using it if it did.
I've been surprised at how much deflection there can be even in quite pricy saws. If you design the forces out - with the handle position - you can make a lighter tool.
That saw pictured in the OP is an ancient design - dates back to when Dewalt bought over ELU nearly 30 years ago... and look at the position of the handle 🙂
Never understood why Dewalt continue to make it - maybe theres nostalgia amongst buyers and I guess all the tooling for manufacture has more than paid for itself. Its not cheap either.
incredible stuff Alpin. woooooooosh
If anyone not in the trade, looking for a cheaper saw, got the ferrex one from Aldi a few weeks back, 100 quid, used it for decking and fencing so far, it's ace. Will handle 10" wide scaffolding boards and 4" square fence posts no worries.
Out of stock on website, but still have stock in my local store.
https://www.aldi.co.uk/2-speed-8%22-sliding-mitre-saw/p/701708333112500
I'm using a dewalt DW700. Think its about 250mm max crosscut. its got an 80T industrial blade fitted though, which is a very clean cut. the 777 looks pretty much the same.
Like the other woodies there are a couple of other considerations that are as important as builld or which blade and thats extraction.
These buggers throw the greatest amount of fine dust into the room it is almost unbelievable
Festool apparently from the demos ive seen are the best by far, and thats without adding shields and other home made adaptions.
Most of the rest are adequate but its still noticeably bad. Mine is horrendous, but I enclosed it in a kind of a box and covered over any wide open areas and its actually not bad, though the fine danger dust is still a problem.
Another consideration is one recently addressed by festool and Bosch, where instead of the slide mechanism sticking out the back, forcing the whole saw/system into a usually small workshop far enough out to be a complete pain on lost space to the front of the machine so it sits nearly flus against a wall. Great idea there and again festool wins as the bosch looks quite complex, with multiple bushings and pivots to wear out.
If I could afford a festool kapex, i would buy it over others.
My workshop is a a mixed bag of Festool,dewalt,bosch blue and makita, so I'm not bias to any(Though makita powertools are great)
the bosch looks quite complex, with multiple bushings and pivots to wear out.
I’m no Bosch fanboy by any stretch - I just buy what people say works for any application. But I’ve had the Bosch one for years - and the bearings etc are as smooth now as the day it came out of the box. It, along with my jigsaw (coincidentally, also a Bosch) is my most used power took. It’s not like the bearings are being given a hard time, so as long as they’re well sealed from dust, which they must be, they keep working. (This was mentioned further up...😀)
I own and sue regularly use both the makita 1219 and festool 120.
There are both very good machines, but designed for different things really.
The festool is hands down the best chop saw about, but is more suited to 2nd fix fine finishings. The bevel adjust is the best in the business, you can fine tune it with the twist handle to set you angle to 1/4 a degree, not just unlock it and push it over to your desired angle.
The handle is different to the makita and much better when your using it. It’s designed to be operated with your left or right hand without having to strain your arm over the top, much safer
Dust extraction is amazing when on the matching festool hoover.
All the small extra features are very well thought out. But not everyone needs them.
We build very high end house projects and the saw although expensive is perfect.
The makita, very good at what it does, but we use it for mainly first fix duties, big joists and rafter work.
It will happily do all 2nd fix but it’s just not as accurate as the festool in a 6 inch kitchen cornice moulding.
Where the festool is at its best is when you're having to make of unique cuts and accurate adjustments - the means of adjustment are all really well thought out and placed. It means you can do complicated stuff quickly. The down side I feel is it seems quite slow for repetitive stuff - the soft start and the quite slow deliberate action of the saw adds up to quite a lot of time to each cut - if you're cutting 100s of something so that becomes quite tedious. I tend to use my old non-slidey dewalt 80% of the time just because its fast.
Also the Festool uses well boring colours. The Bosch looks really nice in the blue and red.
But all said and done they're all just for rough chopping the big bits to length.
What you really want then is a mitre trimmer 😉 😛
Bought that little 12v Bosch. Impressive for it's size and weight, but reaches its limit quite quickly. Perfect for pre-drilling and fine shop work.
Think it's a toss up between Makita and Bosch for the chop saw.
The chippy I use, never uses his chop saw when in the workshop. It's just a site tool (that doesn't get much use).
Half of his workshop is dedicated to his massive cast iron table saw with sleds. Does just about everything on it.
Yeah I've got a table saw too, right next to my mitre saw. Depends what you're doing but the mitre saw is so good that I'll often use it for angles and general cross cutting as it's so much quicker than a table saw and very accurate if set up right.
It's actually great for crosscutting veneered and solid wood as you can take a skim cut on the top by feathering the depth as you cut across, then go full depth which is effectively cutting upwards from the table so supported. You get a nice clean cut.
Doing the same on the table saw you either need a scribing blade or to use a sacrificial table.
My Bosch is a workshop saw though. I don't take it on site as I have a smaller Makita for that.
Got an Altendorf in the workshop. Can't easily fit it in the back of my van.
We have 2 x makita compound mitre saws and the latest kapex saw.One of the makita saws is an early model and i agree with comments above the start up on the older saws was very fierce but the latest makita's are very good.I don't know what it is with the festool but i can't get on with it and keep going back to the makita.
We still have an elu flip saw somewhere which is a chop saw ,then flip it over and it becomes a table saw.
The best saw we have is a 5m striebig wall saw which is 35 years old but still as smooth and accurate as it was when new.
When you get one buy the best blade you can afford,it really does make a difference to the quality of cut edge.
get the bosch with the hinge mecahnism.
so compat for front to back.
everyone's moving to them for good reason. they're the shizzle.
i don't have one...
Worth noting (I just checked) but the new Bosch with the hinge mechanism has around 60mm less crosscut capacity and about 20mm less thickness capacity.
120x400mm I get on the tube version.
Gone for the Makita LS1219L.
Better dust sucking and smooth start.
Ordered the Makita stand for it, too.
Was thinking about using the dewalt stand, but the quick release thingy is a bit fragile. The two stands I've used recently both had a bit of plastic snapped off meaning you had to fummle about with a screwdriver to open the clip. The length of the dewalt is good, mind.
Good choice. We have the makita dls110z which we use on sites at it uses 2 18v batteries and has been a superb tool (believe very similar to what you have ordered). We upgraded from the smaller 36v chop saw and it’s infinitely better. It’s only negative for our use is even though it’s portable, it’s still a big beast to move in and out of vans etc. What I would say is that the dewalt stand is much much better, the makita one is the worst makita tool I own.
We have a festool kapex set up in our unit. Can’t fault it’s cuts but I prefer the makita myself. Don’t like the triggers, the lazy slow start