[Closed] "By 2019 no new Volvo cars will be sold without an electric motor"

Emphasis being on could. Nobody has yet found anything viable that could fulfil this idea. Unless you go with fuel cells.

Or use the electricity to make hydrogen out of water and then burn hydrogen in some kind of 'internal combustion engine' from which the emmisions would be water. So hydrogen is the energy storage medium. (That may be bollocks - I'm not a chemist.)

Hydrogen. What could possibly go wrong?

[img] [/img]

Oh yeah.

Hurry up you ICEosaurs, there's a meteor coming!

Here's mine:

[img] [/img]

(with bonus extra carbon fibre on-one too....)

Hydrogen is considered safer than petrol, it burns hotter but much faster and doesn't spread about the place.

It can be run in an internal combustion engine but fuel cells are better.

Who crashed into the front of your car?

It can be run in an internal combustion engine but fuel cells are better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

Ahhh, fuel cells *are* hydrogen! As you were, nothing to see here.

Hydrogen. What could possibly go wrong?

I'm not sure an airship full of petrol would have been a rip-roaring success.

people like personal freedom and to 'own' stuff

people need to change their behaviour. and if they won't they need to be compromised so that they have to change their behaviour.

How long before "ElectricGate" or "HybridGate" ?

outofbreath

Self drive cars are a bit like Fusion power it's been 'just about to happen' for ages but never actually arrives.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuhbqcMzOaw

Your point?

people need to change their behaviour. and if they won't they need to be compromised so that they have to change their behaviour.

Nice approach. If going down that avenue would be better to do it on more important things than cars though

'like' for Maxtorque

Its very clear which way the direction of travel is going. In a very short time we have moved away from owning cars to renting them through PCH - and the most enthusastic take up has been from the younger generation. They want new shiny stuff and they want it changed frequently. They want the latest tech and rarely do they care how it works. I can't think of a more perfect environment for EV's to flourish.

As for 'self driving' I'm sure it will be here quicker than we think or indeed want.

I have a hybrid and wouldn't go back to purely diesel or petrol.

Our second car in the future will probably be full electric.

Is that because it's more eco? No not at, they just drive better and are cheaper to own.

Personally I don't think electric is the answer, it's just shifting the limelight from nasty nasty combustion engines to amazing clean cars (so we keep buying them)

Charging simply cannot work on a national basis. The only way I can see it working is if you go to the petrol/battery station where they swap out your battery pack for another charged one. Can you imagine car companies all agreeing to a one size/shape battery !??!

So for now I'll keep driving my hybrid for the selfish advantages it gives me, eco is certainly not one of them IMO

People filming themselves using Teslas "autopilot" are exactly why these driver assist system are a terrible idea.

It is NOT a driverless car. Everyone seems to think it is. This has killed at least 2 people so far.

Even the company that made the systems in Tesla car said so
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-16/tesla-says-mobileye-tried-to-block-its-auto-vision-capability

BTW - i work on driver assist stuff - none of it's being tested properly, ONLY trust Google on this, they are the only ones doing it properly and the only company refusing to release partial solutions, FULL autonomy only

And you can put me down for one of these!
Slightly faster than my Leaf

Wake me up when my liability as a car user transfers to the manufacturer.
💡

We've had a hybrid golf for about a year now. I cant imagine us ever going back to a conventional petrol / diesel.

the only company refusing to release partial solutions, FULL autonomy only

There is an argument for that - but there is also an argument that people just aren't ready for full autonomy so you have to sneak up on it slowly, step-by-iterative-step so as not to scare them:

power steering
automatic transmission
cruise control
auto wipers
auto lights
auto handbrake
adaptive cruise control
steering by wire
built-in satnav
lane departure warning
built-in satnav with live traffic updates and re-routing
auto emergency braking
parking cameras
parking cameras with overlays
autonomous parking
driver assist cruise control

Wake me up when my liability as a car user transfers to the manufacturer.

That's exactly where I am on this. The day I can read or sleep on my way to work I'll be happy. If I've got to be awake & looking I might as well be operating the car. IMHO.

there is also an argument that people just aren't ready for full autonomy

You reckon? I think full autonomy is the only point where it becomes viable.

I used to be enthusiastic about cars, passionate even. Then I gave up competition and overnight driving became a chore. Saturation maybe. Anyhow, thirty years after last racing my local Renault dealer lent me a Zoe while the petrol machine was in for service and it made me smile.

As I pootled around in it I started calculating if it would do the trips I wanted to. The further I went the bigger the smile and the higher the range on the display (the previous user must have had a lead right foot). I took it home and got Madame to have a go. She liked it too, we ordered one.

The environmental damage of mining, manufacturing and ultimately disposing of lithium battery packs is huge and the explotation of the miners pretty deplorable.

But that's ok because in the UK we don't have to (in the short term at least) worry about these things. We can feel all warm and fuzzy that we're only destroying environments thousands of miles away and not our own.

Electric cars are not a long term solution for this reason. They have a huge global environmental impact which is not sustainable imo.

[b]cars[/b] are not a long term solution for this reason. They have a huge global environmental impact which is not sustainable imo.

cars are not a long term solution for this reason. They have a huge global environmental impact which is not sustainable imo.

Fair...

cars are not a long term solution for this reason. They have a huge global environmental impact which is not sustainable imo.

Without a car how would I move my bike around?

No tag?

I iz disappoint.

Volvo have said they will continue production of existing models.
New models will be electric.
But no announcement of any new models.
Today there was no news.

Wow, the clearly city/urban-centric point of view of so many here, who seem to have the usual townie attitude that the countryside is just the place where they can go to play with their expensive toys, then retreat back to the all-encompassing luxuries or their comfy urban lifestyles.
How very bloody patronising and condescending!
Christ, it's often difficult to find a conventional filling station after a certain time of night, there's nothing between Bristol and Chippenham on the A420 after around 11pm, for example, which is roughly thirty miles, a great many people live and work in small villages well off the main routes, with zero access to public transport, in many villages there's only on-street parking well away from residents homes, so any kind of plug-in electric car is a non-starter; for example a former work colleague lives in a small cottage at the top of a narrow footpath, his car is parked on the main road through the village wherever he can find a space, which might be a hundred yards away! Many local villages, like Biddestone, don't even have street lights, let alone somewhere to plug in a car, because the houses are either well away from from the road, or there's nowhere to park a car nearby, so what the actual **** are all those millions of people supposed to do?
👿

Oooh! Get him.

To be fair, they don't make a substantial economic contribution so does it really matter?

The beauty of charge points is they're open regardless of the time of the day.

Blimey Zero, chill out.

Those millions will continue to support the market demand for petrol-driven vehicles which will presumably still be made due to the billions of people in similar situations.

(And for the record it's hardly a metropolis here either despite your weirdly presumptive accusations)

Threads like this in the past have had half a dozen negative nancies arguing against electric using ever more extreme scenarios as example of why it'll never work.

Now theres just CZ like a Japanese soldier lost in the forest still fighting a war long lost.

The beauty of charge points is they're open regardless of the time of the day.

I should dangle a cable from the 4th floor of my apartment (there's a power socket on the balcony), and more than double the amount of city centre charging capability here. Apparently charging costs are virtually free, so won't cost me much more than the price of a 25m extension cord.

That's exactly where I am on this. The day I can read or sleep on my way to work I'll be happy. If I've got to be awake & looking I might as well be operating the car. IMHO.

IMO I can't think of anything worse - at least with public transport you can people watch. But after a 12 hour shift in labs, I'd like something like a mid-range caterham or a motorbike to wake me the hell up again.

I'm not sure becoming more insulated is better for out mental health, maybe for the death rate on public roads. Going home in a silent, clinical self driving car glued to my Samsung Note 20 after a day in quiet white sterile labs, surrounded by people whos faces I can't recognise because they are covered head to toe in PPE...is my idea of a dystopian nightmare.

It's the same with the idea of the artificial home chef, I cook because it connects me to the world around me.

IMO I can't think of anything worse - at least with public transport you can people watch. But after a 12 hour shift in labs, I'd like something like a mid-range caterham or a motorbike to wake me the hell up again.

You are a bit special though.

Most people don't have beautiful open roads to swoop through. So they just end up venting frustration on little bits of dual carriageway between roundabouts. That'd be even more frustrating I reckon. Have you tried masturbation instead?

IMO I can't think of anything worse - at least with public transport you can people watch. But after a 12 hour shift in labs, I'd like something like a mid-range caterham or a motorbike to wake me the hell up again.

I'm not sure becoming more insulated is better for out mental health, maybe for the death rate on public roads. Going home in a silent, clinical self driving car glued to my Samsung Note 20 after a day in quiet white sterile labs, surrounded by people whos faces I can't recognise because they are covered head to toe in PPE...is my idea of a dystopian nightmare.

Nope, I don't regard my commute as part of my life at all. It's dead time I hate. My commute is along a boring straight road in an overcrowded area so it's not like a bike commute over twisty mountain roads which I could enjoy.

If I can get an hours sleep in the car I could spend an hour more doing things I love with people I love[s]just about tolerate[/s].

Academic, cos I don't think self drive cars are gonna happen any time soon. When you read the limitations of the current crop we're decades away from texting my car to pick me up after it's dropped the kids off at School or meet me 12 miles down stream at a certain time to pick me up with my Kayak.

How very bloody patronising and condescending!

Christ not this again. You accused me of all this once and it was all bollocks. You really need to calm down.

The reason most people are talking about cities is that's where most people live, where most cars are and most of the pollution is. It shouldn't need saying that all of this is possible WHERE POSSIBLE.

However - much of Sweden is a lot more isolated than you can probably imagine, and Volvo still think they are onto something. The point is that people have to take the initative and get something done. Do people in the countryside watch Netflix because they have broadband? No, they have broadband because they want to watch Netflix.

Bristol and Chippenham on the A420

Hehehe.. countryside.. hehe..

Anyway - eventually, there'll be chargers under all parking spaces. The cables are right there after all, so it's hardly a stretch. There'll be a little chip so it knows who you are and you get the bill.

And that'll happen because manufacturers are investing in the electric future.

The beauty of charge points is they're open regardless of the time of the day.

Most of them aren't, check "chargemap".

Mining lithium is messy, but then so is drilling for oil, fracking etc.

Electric vehicles are clean at the point of use so they are good for public health.

The lack of charge points put me off buying until now. But greater range and rapidly developing infrastructure mean I should be able to do everything I do with the petrol car in the electric. I'll no doubt keep a book and a guitar in it to while away the charge time on long journeys. It does mean I'll have to take a break every three hours or so.

Not read all this but why don't "they" do this?
We already have a big hole in the front of the car for the engine.
Why not make that hole the same size in every car and you can change the battery.
You'd pull up at a petrol station a machine would lift put the battery and put a new one in. The Petrol station would then recharge the battery to go into the next car.
The roof of the petrol station could have solar panels to help with energy creation.
Of course you could still charge your car at home.

Electric vehicles are clean at the point of use so they are good for public health.

Never mind the pollution created when generating the electricity or when making the car. They're all fluffy and lovely at the point of use. They actually cuddle polar bears.

Cost of production v cost of use.

Keep an old car going or keep buying MOAR NEW THINGS! Hmmmm.

Never mind the pollution created when generating the electricity or when making the car.

Um, electricity can be generated renewably. Petrol is harder to make. Although people are working on that too.

Keep an old car going or keep buying MOAR NEW THINGS! Hmmmm.

Or the third option you've overlooked in your haste to denigrate, which is keep an old car going as long as possible and THEN buy an electric one.

Keep an old car going. Far cleaner.

In terms of local pollution that's not so. And given the European energy mix an EV will produce less emissions over its lifetime than an old car over its last few years of life.

When you're out on your bike in town CFH, would you really rather ride past a queue of old diesels belching out toxic fumes or a queue of Zoes just sitting there.

EDit: I see CFH has been editing and replaced errors with block capitals.