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What is it you're trying to do and need the money for ? Completing the renovations ? Or something more than that ?
Yes, aside from some small stuff - tidying up, keeping the building in good repair and building some retaining garden walls whilst terracing the back garden - we were always going to need a loan to carry out the bulk of the building work.
We'll be doing all of the easy stuff - tiling, painting & decorating, kitchen fitting etc etc, but the stone walls need raising, the roof needs replacing, concrete floors need craning into the tower . . . it's all major work.
We're converting this:
into this . . . .
What about some sort of advance voucher system that's beneficial to both you and the customers ?
Lets say a week trip to you will be £800 when all done. Offer that full week in advance payment in leiu of £500. Give it say a 2-3 year expiry.
That's definitely something we've considered and plan to do at a later point - once the first or first and second stages are completed and we know we're not going to let anyone down.
We've also looked into crowd funding for, for instance, the final of the three stages - with "free holiday time" as an incentive.
Spekkie I am sure you have looked but is there not public funding for rural businesses. I am sure there is round here to renovate old village houses into businesses, otherwise the villages would die. There are no young people in them so when the oldies die off that will be it.
I have a San...er account here, every time I withdraw cash I get an offer of 8k loan flash up on screen. No idea of interest rate but every bit helps.
Good luck in the venture, you could always nip back to uk and paint flats, it's 1k per flat and flights are 20e return in Jan 20. You kip in the flat so have No costs. I just had mine done but next time i let you know.
Morning poolman - how was Barcelona?
When we bought the place there was a scheme in place for helping renovate places into B&B's (Casa Rurals) in the Sobrabe area. By the time we got our planning permission that scheme had finished and the local authorities were focussing on something else. We're going back to the lady at the Carmaca (Commerce Department) to see if that situation has changed back again.
We've registered with a website called "the Angel Investment Network"
https://www.angelinvestmentnetwork.us/
It's free to register, you fill in what it is that you need investors for and then once it's approved they send out your "Pitch" to their network of Angel Investors.
The main site is based in the US but they have a "network" here in Spain, so our Pitch should be sent out to the Spanish network of potential investors too.
You can see from the wording of the questions they ask and the accompanying notes, that the sites biggest traffic comes from Electronics start-ups, e-commerce start-ups, that sort of thing. But they do have a category for "Tourism & Recreation" which are essentially where we fall - in fact getting tourists to visit us for recreational purposes pretty much sums up what we want to do!
The service is advertised as "free" but (exactly as you would expect) when you get to the end of filling in a dozen sections of information and you're ready to "Publish your Pitch" you are told that the free service only does a few basic things - and holds back certain information from potential investors. If you want investors to get the whole thing you have to pay. They have a tiered pricing structure topping out at around $2500 for "everything".....
We've gone with the free option, let's see what happens . . . .
🙂
What do investors get in this context ? A share of the business ? share of the property value ? Can you buy them back out ? and at what terms ?
Just jammed in a couple of days work at "Camping Ainsa" - battening down the hatches for the approaching winter ....
Essentially what we need is the "Private" version of what would be called a Business Loan if we got it from the bank.
Best case scenario for us would be if someone (or some people) lent us the money to do the building work neccesary to get ourselves up and running. We would then pay that money back, with a manageable amount of interest.
If we have to, we can break the project up into stages. For instance we could get a couple of rooms open initially along with the kitchen/lounge/dining room along with the two gardens, which I can take care of myself. That gives us the ability to offer "a Bed and a Breakfast", in a beautiful setting, plus all the other little services that will come with it - picnic lunches, laundry service, guiding tours etc etc. These little services are where you can make some useful extra money - over and above the "bread & butter" money that the basic B&B brings in.
With a couple of rooms completed, we could then consider the sort of options we talked about the other day. For instance, someone paying £500 for a trip say a year in advance (therefore giving us the cash long before we need to provide the service in return) would receive a stay that is actually worth perhaps £750.
Here's a picture of the view from the top garden . . . . .
There are 6 categories of Routes here at "Zona Zero" in Ainsa - totalling over 1000km of trails......
ZZ Routes - The standard Zona Zero routes that form the basis for the Trail Network here. New routes are being added all the time.
ZL Routes - The "Light" Routes. There are 6 of them and they tend to be easier than the ZZ Routes. That's not always the case though - some of them are pretty "interesting" in places!
ZE Routes - These are the "Special" Routes. Enduro riding, including the sections that made up the Enduro Series Stages that were held here in Ainsa-Sobrabe in 2015 and 2018.
ZA Routes - These are the "Alpine" Routes. Up in the Alto Pyrenees, these routes offer some spectacular views and some great descents.
ZR Routes - A set of 13 "Road" Routes here and across the border in France.
EZ Routes - Coming soon! Routes prticularly suited to e-Bikes.
Plenty to enjoy!
Ainsa, Angel, a French lady, MTBs, a chain saw, dalmatien dogs and some spectacular views were featured on TF1 news tonight. I think there'll be even more French voices on the trails next year.
The French lady was possibly his girlfriend because she's French. The 3 dogs - Golfo, Lilly and Lolita, go everywhere with him. They are lovely dogs.
It is amazing looking here at the moment with the sunshine and the snow up on the Alto Pyrenees. Glad the word is being spread around!
We've suddenly slipped into Winter!
Spring was amazing - in June I was riding until after 10pm and it hadn't got dark yet!
Summer was amazing - up to 43 degrees at times in August, swimming in the local river, big salads for lunch every day - perfect.
Autumn..... well, it lasted 2 minutes! October was nice, in fact it was very comfortable after the heat of summer, but then at the beginning of November the rains arrived and temps started to fall. Now the rain has gone and it's sunny during the day - warm even if you happen to be out in it, but at night and inside the flat (which is designed for summer not winter) it is freezing!
We'll be ok after we adjust ourselves a bit - dig out the winter clothes and riding kit and the hot water bottles - and if it snows then the cold will be forgiven, because it really is beautiful here when it snows, but for the moment while we pay our respects to the passing of Summer, the cold is a bit.... shocking!!!
Brrrrrr
There's been a frost the last three mornings here, the horses have grown their thck coats and then had a roll in the mud. Beautiful out riding though looking at the same summits from the other side. I won't mention our cosy house... . First ski of the season planned for Friday.
We will have a cosy house one day!
We have the promise of unlimited firewood from Ramon the Friendly Farmer for a big open fire or a wood burner. Plannng on having one in the lounge and one in the bike workshop. It's one of the "happy thoughts" that's keeping us going if ever we feel cold while we hunt for the funds to build or project
🙂
Ramon will be pleased to have someone maintianing the forest to reduce the risk of forest fires. It's a tinder box in your parts in late Summer. Go wood burner. I lived in a farmhouse house with an open fire and wood-fueled Aga. The Aga warmed it up, the open fire just made it draughty and/or smokey.
You can get hot air systems to link to the fire- my sister lives in Valencia and had that installed to warm the house. I guess it's a bit warmer down there in winter than at the base of the Pyrenees.
Ramon ploughs open spaces on his land to create fire breaks every year. They had a close call 15 years ago and no one has ever forgotten it. Thankfully since we've been here there haven't been any fires anywhere near Zona Zero, but then the maintenance of the fire roads and mTB trails maybe helps with that.
Re wood burner / open fire / ducted hot air systems . . . we are looking into them all with interest. I know that as nice as an open fire can be (Ramon & Rosa have one in their kitchen - which is the main room in use in the farmhouse) smoke and smokey smells can be a problem.
You may have gathered from some of our posts that the region where we live - in the foothills of the Spanish Pyrenees - is strewn with abandoned or almost abandoned villages.
The two main reasons for this are firstly the relocation of much of the rural population into the towns and cities by Franco leading up to and during the Spanish Civil War and more recently the natural migration of people, specifically youngsters, moving to places with better work opportunities.
Pretty much every ride I go on takes me past at least one abandonded village or farm house and they've become some much a part of the landscape I'm used to that I'm no longer surprised by them - although I still find them intriguing!
The current government, in conjunction with local councils in our area are making an effort to encorurage people to move back into these villages, some of which are high in the mountains and consequently failry remote. Modern access roads and electricity & water supplies are all being put in and in some cases funding is being made available for renovation projects.
Guaso, where our Project is, doesn't fall into the "abandonded" category, but we're making enquiries with the local department of commerce just in case the option for funding or a low rate loan might be available.
You never know!
Loved passing through this hippy village earlier this year with Basque MTB. Looked like a tough life up there though, miles from anywhere.
Yeah we often stop for picnics in remote locations when I'm out showing people around - Mrs Spekkie meets us with a spread - and I often wonder how the original inhabitants lived and what they would have thought about us and what we do while we sit and eat and enjoy the quiet and the views.
I know that back in the day it used to take our neighbour, Ramon the Farmer, over an hour to get from Guaso to Ainsa with a couple of donkeys to bring back sacks of grain etc. Now I can do it in the car in 6 minutes without speeding.....
Tomorrow we'll be doing some volunteer work at the Ainsa Red Cross (Cruz Roja) office.
There are probably 50 odd volunteers all told, and by all trying to do a bit each, no one ends up doing too much.
Tomorrow we'll be driving the Red Cross van out to some small villages and dropping off EU Food parcels to people who need them.
No matter how tough life gets, or how bad off you think you have it - and believe me we both have our "moments", there are always people worse off than you.
Zona Zero Route ZA-03 - "The Comodoto" - 22km long and climbs 1200m....
I rode this route for the first time a few weeks ago with two mates from the UK, one an old friend and the other a new friend. It was a great day out - spectacular views, steady climbing and some awesome descending. The final part of the climb is too steep to ride, so it's a case of pushing or carrying your bike - but we broke that section up with a little chocolate break half way up - just to sit and take in where we were.
If you didn't want to climb to the very top, there is a way around..... maybe I'll try that next time and report back. But for the first time, I definitely wanted to do the whole thing.
As you climb up out of the Pineta valley you have some awesome views of Monte Perdido and it's sisters - and you're looking at them from the northern side. Whereas from where we live we look at them from the southern side.
After climbing on the fire road track you round the bend into a pasture hidden behind a low outcrop of rock. Then its a bit of walking/pushing/Hike n Bike before you get to where we stopped for a mini-picnic. The sun was warm and the views were amazing.
Then it gets tough for a little while - a good opportunity to tease each other to keep your spirits up!
Finally the top - 2355m above sea level and about 1200 above where we started.
The ridge along the top, which is followed by miles and miles of singletrack descent . . . .
👍
Nice, Comodoto is on my list next time I visit
I have heard of government grants being available for renovating old properties in Spain, however that was in C.Valenciana. I wouldnt be suprised if there was something available for the combination of autonomo/old building.
Yeah, we are talking to the relevant people about the possibility of some sort of "government loan". The EU are helping with this sort of thing as well, but only in certain cases. You never know though!
The weather in November was filthy! Mostly wet and cold this year, but happliy this week the weather has been amazing - so hopefully December will be a good one.
Some pics from todays spin from Boltana over to Ainsa and on through the bottom of the Badlands, which were deserted!
Autumn colours at Zona Zero . . . .
I had the Badlands all to myself!
The sun on my face in December in the Northern Hemisphere! Can't be bad...
I love my life!
Our first little excursion into looking for a potential Private Investor on-line has now come to an end and although we haven't found an investor, we have learned a few useful things going through the process.
We tried out with the Angel Investment Network which advertised "Free Registration" and "access to 225,987 potential investors". I filled in all the sections of the online application form, giving details of our project, our business plan, our viability study and ourselves etc etc and at the end of several hours of work, was ready to "Publish our Pitch". Once you publish the pitch it has to be approved by the AIN before being given a Live status.
On clicking the "Publish" button, you are taken to a page that offers you various Paid options that enable you to enhance your pitch. Prices for the additional options range from $150 to $2500. Since this is our first attempt and we're really just finding our way here, I didn't choose to enhance our pitch. I clicked "continue" and was taken to a second Paid options page which informed me that the free option, which I was currently signed up for, did have certain limitations on it...
Several important sections of our pitch would be blanked out and therefore not available for potential investors to see, our acompanying pictures/photos would not be included with the pitch, the pitch would only be sent to a fraction of the available potential investors and our pitch would be sent out as an "Anonymous Pitch" - meaning investors would have to open it and read it to see what it was about, rather than being told in advance for example that it was a property development.
I understand that everyone is tyring to make money here and that you don't get anything for nothing, so I won't run the company down for their "bait and switch" methods, and I kept a "copy & paste" copy of all the text I filled in - so I won't have to type everything out "longhand" again the next time we go through this process.
I say our "first little excursion has now come to an end" because one of the other limitations to the Novice Package is that the Pitch is archived after 30 days and if you want to republish it, you have to pay to do so.
I doubt that this exercise will result in us hearing from a potential investor, the limitations the company place on the free option are just too crippling. Of course its designed like that - again, I understand.
It's a shame because I'd happily have paid the company a finders fee if we'd been successful.
Anyway, onwards and upwards. I believe we have a good idea and we've bought ourselves a great property and I'm nothing if not optimistic!
Did you check out how sucessful the financial dating company was before paying? It's a house renovation, if a bank won't lend you the money then no-one else is likely too and if they do it'll be because they expect a fantastic return. Sleves up, get stuck in.
We didn't part with any money and sleeves have been up for a while now!
According to the local bank managers, the banks hands being tied is due in part to things like the EU bailout and the subsequent rules imposed on Spanish banks by Brussels.
Since yesterdays post we've had several people contact us for more information about our Project, so there's hope yet . . . .
The thing you'd get STWers on would be a "chantier collectif". People turn up and work for free on the building site in exchange for board and lodging which can be as simple as a sawdust toilet and a tent. There's no formal work time but people generally get stuck in, though MTBers might not be as fresh if they've had a dawn spin. Talk to your insurance company about the idea.
Junior and his girlfriend have done it, junior was unimpressed at working for free, his girlfriend loved it. They did it with Workaway France, conditions vary depending on country laws. With Workaway France they could only do light stuff below 2m (and junior was pissed off when he was asked to mount a timber frame) but people here build whole houses once they've sorted out insurance.
A quick trip up to the village of Campodarbe last weekend.
The last picture shows the path back down to the small town of Boltaña, where we rent a flat.
Stage 8 of la Vuelta a España 2020 will pass through Ainsa - our hometown - on Saturday August 22nd!
Bring it on!
🙂
Having New Year in the UK. 3 years since we were last here - time flies.
We're on the last day of a 10 day trip to the UK. Going to miss my son and our grand daughter when we leave tonight. It has been lovely.
Mrs Spekkie came down with flu between Boxing day and us leaving Spain on the 28th, and I got it the day we arrived here. Thankfully my sons house is warmer than our flat back in Boltana and we managed to keep warm, take meds and get rid of it before it could turn into anything worse. Reading on-line it seems the usual waves of winter Flu are sweeping across Northern Europe. Let's hope that's it now. Our first proper illness in nearly two years.
Today we will do some last minute shopping before packing our bags and heading to Gatwick for a 2 hr flight home.
Tomorrow is a public holiday in Spain - "Kings Day". The day the three kings arrived with gifts to visit the baby . . . .
We will have the day to ourselves, washing clothes and cleaning the flat no doubt, before getting back into normal life - whatever that may be - on Tuesday.
We're hoping for good things this year - nothng extravagent, we dont need to win the Lotto, we just want to set up our business, become self sufficient financially and do the stuff we love - hosting and guiding visitors.
Fingers crossed!
Happy New Year to everyone.......
Lots of Spanish on the pistes in France this weekend thanks to Epiphany. Don't forget there's some building work to do too. 😉
Feliz año nuevo!
Año nuevo? Bit late for that, Feliz Reyes 🙂
We popped in and spoke to one of the banks before we left Spain on our 10 day trip to the UK.
They confirmed what I'd pretty much already guessed - if we can get our business built using private investment, run it succesfully for between 18 months and 2 years and produce a set of accounts showing that everything is going ok - then in principal they should not have a problem re-financing us if we wanted (or needed) to pay back our investors.
Banks - happy to lend you money when you no longer need it . . . . . 😉
Mid January . . . . the sun is shning and the trails are dry....
It's not what you would call "warm" here yet, but dress properly and after the first climb you'll be fine 🙂
Did a ride today up to the village of Sieste, which is just outside Boltaña and then came back down on Zona Zero route ZZ-18. It's a nice little loop with some beautiful views of the mountains to the north and of Morcat to the south.
Parts of the trail that don't get any sun at this time of year were frozen, but not dangerously so.
Was nice to get out there and stretch my legs and my lungs - I have some guiding work this week so I need to be up to scratch!
Love Reading this thread spekkie 👍 I'm so impressed with your attitude and what you're trying to achieve.
Keep on keepin on 😎
I'm jealous still.
Especially as eldest_oab should be out with you soon...
Thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread over the last day. Had the pleasure of almost 2 weeks riding the motorbike in and around Aïnsa a couple of years back and now planning our next visit in the motorhome with the MTBs.
I’ll give you a shout when we’re there! Just joined your FB page too.
All the best for 2020!