Is English the official language of the UK?
Yes, but some words are open to interpretation, and hence just writing that word down in a sentence does not automatically create a correct and reproducible interpretation at the standard needed for law.
A dictionary definition of belief (something you believe) does not satisfactorily qualify that anything you believe is sufficient for it to become a protected characteristic, which is the actual question, leading to the further discussion about whether refusing a bank account for someone's beliefs is legitimate.
Hence some other words were written down to describe what constitutes a belief in respect of it being protected.
In respect of which, there's several clauses that say that beliefs are protected if they are strongly held, substantial, based on evidence rather than opinion, etc., but then there's a final one that says
Be worthy of respect in a democratic society, not be incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others
- and the list is not a 'balance of' or 'perm any 3 from' - it needs to meet all. So no matter how strongly you might believe in white supremacy as a belief, it can't be a protected one, because the last one disqualifies it.
The legislation and debate around makes it clear that political belief is not included in belief. One tribunal decision does not change that
Otherwise we would not be able to sack folk for racist views and membership of neo nazi organisations - something which has happened many times.
Is English the official language of the UK?
Define official? Tony can lend you his dictionary.
The legislation and debate around makes it clear that political belief is not included in belief.
I disagree - if it meets all the tests then it could (not necessarily does). Where do political and philosophical beliefs cross over. But the kind of 'political beliefs' that are causing trouble here pretty well automatically fall foul of the one I listed above.
dictionary that defines the meaning of said words used to form sentences that form the legislation.
Anyone who has tried to read legislation will know that it is written in legalistic gobbledegook. To the extent that it has to be accompanied by a plain English explanation of it's intent!
Anyone who has tried to read legislation will know that it is written in legalistic gobbledegook.
Plus to complicate matters sometimes uses Latin terminology, despite the fact that Latin not being the official language in the UK is res ipsa loquitur
Surely Nigel Farage is a one-man political party?
Yeah, and he has a book coming out. I think it's going to be called "My Fight"
The real ‘news’ in all of this is the disproportionate influence Toad still appears to wield.
100% agree
I also agree. But of course that influence is nothing to do with Brexit.
Of course it isn't :roll eyes:
😉
Yes if Farage doesn't get his way he will force the country into brexit. That's why everyone is scared of him.
Edit : 🙄
Yeah, and he has a book coming out. I think it’s going to be called “My Fight”
Oh goody, I hope he does some book signings in Scotland 😉 😆
Where do political and philosophical beliefs cross over.
I think it's fairly obvious what the spirit of "belief" is supposed to be as a protected characteristic, it's specified as "faith or... " One could believe all manner of things but really what you've got there aren't beliefs, they're merely opinions.
Though of course, whether your religious beliefs are anything other than just, like, your opinions man, is a whole other conversation.
Is English the official language of the UK?
The UK doesn't have an official language. As well you know. But it does have several languages, one of which is somewhat prevalent. I think a better term may be "de facto" rather than "official"?
I think it’s fairly obvious what the spirit of “belief” is supposed to be as a protected characteristic, it’s specified as “faith or… ”
You might think, but "spirit" counts for naught. As well as law being written down it's interpreted, and although tribunals are not the same as court / high court / appeals court / supreme court in terms of setting precedent, they do have the ability to interpret and have in the past ruled as per below (and there may be others, IANAL)
So - political beliefs can be considered protected beliefs and afford Equality protection. But they can't over-ride the "not be incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others" clause.
Oh, curious.
I was thinking, like, you could believe that all Man United supporters should be drowned. Should that be protected? But the "fundamental right of others" snags that quite nicely.
I think a better term may be “de facto”
Not really, it's not English!
Be worthy of respect in a democratic society, not be incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others
Given that this has been posted in this conversation 3 times, 4 including this, and people are still claiming that Farages view can be protected, I now have a belief that right wingers struggle with basic comprehension.
I was thinking, like, you could believe that all Man United supporters should be drowned. Should that be protected? But the “fundamental right of others” snags that quite nicely.
What does the man on the Clapham omnibus think? Oh, no, they will all be Man U fans.
Clapham omnibus? What about the man on the leith tram? 🙂
Be worthy of respect in a democratic society, not be incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others
so tories not protected then?
so tories not protected then?
Traditional conservatism, maybe. But the right-wing fascist party that they have become, probably not.
Near fascist. to call them fascists is to downplay what real fascists are. Braverman probably get pretty close tho
Clapham omnibus? What about the man on the leith tram? 🙂
The man on the Clapham Omnibus is recognised in English law as being a reasonable person.
I have no idea about the man on the Leith tram, although it's probably best not to make eye contact with them 💡
🙂
The UK doesn’t have an official language. As well you know. But it does have several languages, one of which is somewhat prevalent.
Nice diversion from an otherwise dull thread. The “UK” has two formal languages for state and parliament; Norman French and English. The individual nations of the UK have other languages in use, and formally recognised, but none bubble up to being UK languages. Try addressing the UK parliament in Cymraeg and see how you get on…
I now have a belief that right wingers struggle with basic comprehension.
Oh I reckon they understand, but that's not really the game they're playing is it...
To keep blathering on about "political beliefs" when that's very clearly not what we're discussing, says it all. Ignore the details keep shouting about "oppression"...
To be oppressed you must have lost a right, a Coutts account isn't really a right though, it's very much a privilege enjoyed by the wealthy and connected.
As the saying goes, "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" so surely a man of the people like Nige should have welcomed banking alongside us plebs rather than kick up such a fuss...
Helpfully, our hero Nige has set up a website for everyone to report any beastly banks which are closing accounts (accountsclosed.org).
Though I'm not sure why he needs your home address...
I see Farages partner(in crime) Arron Banks is reporting his account was closed down.
.
An interesting chap, and his name, as well as Farage and a number of others keeps coming up in the strangest of places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum
I'm sure that banks, farage and fellow travellers would be welcomed by any Russian bank.
Seems Nigel is getting his account back.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/coutts-gives-nigel-farage-his-account-back/
Yes, but we all know what a liar farage is, so i doubt its a matter of Coutte being all apologetic, rather a case of farage has somehow found the extra money to allow for an account. I'd even suspect it was 'loaned' to him.
It would be interesting if the money was given so he could grift a bit more, but not fully given it as in it still belongs to someone else. Which might be(if this is indeed the case) similar to money laundering.
Or possibly even taken out a remortgage. But either way theres bound to be something underhand about it and far from the line he's spinning.
Y'know I don't care why Coutts has seen fit to give him back his account, just as long as he shuts the **** up about it.
farage has somehow found the extra money
a load of appearance fees?
I reckon this just proves that despite his claims that he is anti-establishment, and that the establishment are ganging up against him, the public school educated former city trader is very much part of the establishment and knows all the right people.
He is someone who very clearly enjoys privileges that most people don't.
