[Closed] British soldiers killed by Afghan police

[i]A UK military spokesman said: "One individual Afghan National Policeman, possibly in conjunction with another, went rogue. [/i]

Really. WTF are we doing here? We're supporting politically a corrupt, dictator that almost half the Afghan population don't want or support, we're caught in essentially a civil war, that's being sold to the public as a fight against terrorism.

Time to Go

Bring em all home, give em jobs on border control.

We'll be leaving with our tails between our legs at some point. Its when, not if. Might as well do it now and stop the pointless waste of life

A Soviet General said they should have read Kipling before the Russians decided to go to Afghanistan.

Brown (bangs head against the wall) said this week (after Abdullah Abdullah pulled out of the run off saying it wouldnt be fair)

"now we can move forward and combat corruption"

You idiot.

We've exported our own particular brand of democracy. After all:

Brown was elected as PM by who exactly? The members of his own party didn't even vote for him. And the person who's really pulling the strings - Mandy - isn't even an elected MP!!!

Then theres the Peace envoy who started two wars (Mr Blair).

Brown was elected as PM by who exactly?

We dont elect PM's we vote for MP's

A fair point. But we've essentially had a prime minister foisted on us. Brown would never win a 'free and fair' election and he knows it!

I was just illustrating that we're in no position to be lecturing other people on Democracy

I agree with NickC, the British Army should just blitz the suspected Al Quaida training camps, level the poppy fields (the Taliban's main source of income) and get the hell out of Afghanistan.

Too much taxpayer's money has been wasted. Too many British soldiers have died.

SUPERIMPOSED CAPTION: 'AND NOW . . . UNOCCUPIED BRITAIN 1970'
Cut to colonel's office. Colonel is seated at desk.
Colonel Come in, what do you want?
Private Watkins enters and salutes.
Watkins I'd like to leave the army please, sir.
Colonel Good heavens man, why?
Watkins It's dangerous.
Colonel What?
Watkins There are people with guns out there, sir.
Colonel What?
Watkins Real guns, sir. Not toy ones, sir. Proper ones, sir. They've all got 'em. All of 'em, sir. And some of 'em have got tanks.
Colonel Watkins, they are on our side.
Watkins And grenades, sir. And machine guns, sir. So I'd like to leave, sir, before I get killed, please.
Colonel Watkins, you've only been in the army a day.
Watkins I know sir but people get killed, properly dead, sir, no barley cross fingers, sir. A bloke was telling me, if you're in the army and there's a war you have to go and fight.
Colonel That's true.
Watkins Well I mean, blimey, I mean if it was a big war somebody could be hurt.
Colonel Watkins why did you join the army?
Watkins For the water-skiing and for the travel, sir. And not for the killing, sir. I asked them to put it on my form, sir - no killing.

Horas right, if the might of the Soviet Red army couldn't control the place, what chance do our under equipped soldiers have? How can they fight a war when the Rules of Engagement are based on our idealistic human rights legislation?
Pointless.

The Soviets had over 100,000 on the ground at their peak and of course there was the interference of the CIA (arming the Muhajadeen). If you want to 'win' (quell the extremists/inter-tribal fighters etc) I fear the only way to do this is Chechnya-style 🙁

I remember seeing various footage of Soviet tanks/halftracks/trucks being blown up remotely/by landmines- it chillingly looks familiar to IEDs of today.

We didn't do very well last time we tried it (when we were the most powerful empire in the world). It's beyond me how anyone could think it could be done now.

+1 nickc

Enough.

5thElefant - Member

We didn't do very well last time we tried it (when we were the most powerful empire in the world). It's beyond me how anyone could think it could be done now.

Its part of the 'war on terror'.
I actually think its "control and manage your own population through manipulation and fear of the Wolves outside your door"

Have to agree with mike, far to many lost lives, and the amount of money being spent is unbeliveable. The amount of investment that I saw was mind blowing. We won't be leaving for a long time.

PS
Mike thanks for making such a great frame (Love/hate) was 1 of things I was looking forward to coming home to during my tour

Its part of the 'war on terror'.
I actually think its "control and manage your own population through manipulation and fear of the Wolves outside your door"

We won't be leaving for a long time.

Yes we will. The amount of UK deaths is picking up isnt it. I give it another year MAX.

Yes we will. The amount of UK deaths is picking up isnt it. I give it another year MAX.

How are we supposed to win a war when we don't even know who's on which side?

Chris23, glad you made it home safely and thanks for the comments on the frame (which pales into insignificance really when compared to what you guys are risking out there in Afghanistan and Iraq).

I remain convinced that we're not there because of any ideal like imposing democracy and lets be honest Abdullah Abdullah is probably as corrupt as Karzai.

Far better the devil you know, especially when you're embroiled in a sh!t storm on the ground with your big brother in arms, the US of A.

I dare say the Russians are probably getting a little pay back for the 80's too by supplying some of the insurgents with weapons and ammo.

Whatever the aim of this particular game is I think we'll have troops there for some time.

s I think we'll have troops there for some time.

How though? This isn't Northern Ireland. This isn't the Balkans or Falklands either. We dont have any UK people living there, plus in the Balkans our troops werent being targeted and killed by insurgents were they? I really don't think we will be there for long. There will be a gradual troop withdrawal along with positive stories planted in the press and a sham-handover to the Afghans to cover ourselves.

Isn't it true that the recruits only join the Afghan Police has they can't find any jobs elsewhere? Hardly indicative of a bright and sunny future.

[i]Isn't it true that the recruits only join the Afghan Police has they can't find any jobs elsewhere? Hardly indicative of a bright and sunny future.[/i]

Without wanting to offend and one here, What do you think you'd find in the average UK foot soldier? A lot of people I knew from School were going to stay out of the trouble they were alreay in the UK and the rest of them wanted a chance to fire guns at stuff.

I do think we should get out though for the innocent Afghani's killed as much as Uk Soldiers- A pointless death is a pointless death and has no bearing on race or religion.

I have a bit of inside knowledge in this (can't go into details i'm afraid) - unless something changes dramatically then we are there for at least the next ten years in one form or another.

What I don't 'get' is the constant peddling of the same message by Brown. Does he actually believe/trust what he is saying?

[i]What I don't 'get' is the constant peddling of the same message by Brown. Does he actually believe/trust what he is saying?[/i]

er hes a politician justifying a war

you expect him to be honest?!

Its awful, We should not be there, my heart goes out to all our Armed forces over there and all the Service men & their families that have been killed or injured. Why the hell are we fighting for Afghanistan, I thought they attacked to get rid of Bin laden and the terrorist camps run by the Tali ban. It hasn't stopped terrorist attacks has it, in fact they have escalated.

its something to do with getting the job done

after the taliban had been kicked out of government we were obliged to replace it with something more pro-western, that doesnt seem to be very easy

legalise opium buy it from australia then the taliban cant pay for the war, doesnt most of the opium get sold to us in the uk anyway? we are essentially funding our enemies

from what i read about the killings in the OP part of the problem is that the taliban pay much better than the afghan police

How can they fight a war when the Rules of Engagement are based on our idealistic human rights legislation?

my sentiment exactly.

another oppertunity for the "Nuke the site from orbit" motivational poster, but ill spare you the bandwidth.

Brown would never win a 'free and fair' election and he knows it!

I was just illustrating that we're in no position to be lecturing other people on Democracy

Well your not as you still don't understand how ours (UK) works

Well your not as you still don't understand how ours (UK) works

I seems to me that binners [i]does[/i] understand how it works. He said quote, [i]"The members of his own party didn't even vote for him"[/i]. Obviously binners understands like most people in this country, that the normal protocol is for the [u]elected leader[/u] of the largest party in parliament to be chosen as PM. This did not happened in the case of Gordon Brown.

Furthermore, it is an accepted protocol that if the governing party changes it's leader and there are still several years to go before a general election, then an early general election is called. Gordon Brown appeared at first to acknowledge that he would need to call general election, but then changed his mind because he wasn't certain that he would win.

All of which, hardly provides the moral authority to preach democracy to others.

I reckon binners understands how democracy works surfer ...... do you ?

I remember as a kid the Harrier pilot chasing down the Pucara. I rememeber Simon Weston. Why dont we hear about him anymore? I remember the desperate situation, miles away from home. How outmanned and how close we were. Our backs were against the wall.
STWer's slag off Magaret Thatcher. No she was no angel however she had more balls and never found 'religion' after leaving power like some idiots.

Those were my heroes growing up. I think we have entered a period of flux, the armed forces in the middle with Politicians who really dont have a clue what they are doing. That is true.

I remember as a kid the Harrier pilot chasing down the Pucara. I rememeber Simon Weston. Why dont we hear about him anymore? I remember the desperate situation, miles away from home. How outmanned and how close we were. Our backs were against the wall.
STWer's slag off Magaret Thatcher. No she was no angel however she had more balls and never found 'religion' after leaving power like some idiots.

Those were my heroes growing up. I think we have entered a period of flux, the armed forces in the middle with Politicians who really dont have a clue what they are doing. That is true.

Hear hear. I was pretty young when the Falklands was on but I remember it well.

I think that the public should support the service men and women no matter how misguided their mission handed to them by the un-elected idiots. Perhaps we can get some real leaders one day soon?

SSP

Well said Hora - we had some form of pride in this country under Thatcher warts and all

Blair/Von Brun have swapped N.I.(still not resolved) for Afghanistan
Paid off the bankers, but at least they're not screwing miners - no its the postal service. For a shower of ++++ that said they'd be better we're a deal worse for it. Nuclear power / disarmament anyone? No, didn't think so....

Original OP - crying shame RIP 😥

we had some form of pride in this country under Thatcher warts and all

Blair/Von Brun have swapped N.I.(still not resolved) for Afghanistan

Indeed Slapper, and Thatcher did a particularly good job in Northern Ireland.

If only John Major's government had persisted with Thatcher's "flagship Northern Ireland policy" of forcing broadcasters to use actors to do voice-overs every time Gerry Adams spoke, peace would have come so much quicker.

Because as everyone knows the Provisional IRA were about to surrender, when the broadcasting restrictions on Gerry Adams voice was lifted.

Financing, arming, and training, Al-Qaeda, was another of Thatcher's stroke of genius............gawd bless'er.

One of the soldiers killed today has his young children at my friends school and the Headmistress had to inform the school - such a sad, sad loss. Needless to say his children were distraught.

If only John Major's government had persisted with Thatcher's "flagship Northern Ireland policy" of forcing broadcasters to use actors to do voice-overs every time Gerry Adams spoke, peace would have come so much quicker.

You loose anyone in the troubles ernie?

You know its a bit rich when people harp on about wanting murderers like Adams and McGuinness to be allowed to speak then horror of horror abhor Nick Griffin speaking on the beeb - I abhor him as well, but why do people get so vocal about not allowing him to speak?

There appears to be no humanity in any politics

Not that I doubt you ernie, could you give a reference for Thatcher supporting AQ please.

so very sad , R.I.P brave souls , we wil not forget you .

simon weston is indeed an inspiring man and i saw an interview with him recently talking about our current wars, he wasnt impressed

but really are you still suckered in by the pr twaddle of wartime governments, or the soppy eyed nostalia of postwar hero worship

in this 24/7 multimedia age we are all a lot more cynical about war, ever since images came out of vietnam of napalmed children its hard to look up to people who blow up other people

im not trying to detract from their bravery or sacrifice but the realities of war as we see them today make it hard to spin convincing propoganda

You know its a bit rich when people harp on about wanting murderers like Adams and McGuinness to be allowed to speak

Yeah cause Thatcher's solution to "starve the terrorist and the hijacker of the oxygen of publicity on which they depend" was really working, wasn't it ? ........ the IRA were about to surrender and everybody was going to live in peace once more.

The reality is that whilst Thatcher was Prime Minister, the peace process had to wait. Once the Tories had sacked her, then the first vital steps towards securing a negotiated settlement could being.

backhander - both Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher financed and armed Osama Bin laden. It's all historical facts which you won't have any problem finding references for.

Poor poor guys, RIP. I can see my brother in the bbc video there. Bit of a shock :\

ernie, ernie, *shakes head. Can labour really do no wrong in your eyes?

Things are not resolved in Ulster, there's no magic wand. I worked on the border throughout the troubles and took no part in what was a very disturbed reality. Friends were murdered, blown up and butchered. I lost two good friends in a six month period. For those of us who had to live with the reality of the situation on a day to day basis it was and remains hard at times to deal with. Peace at any price? I'm not sure, like you I do not have the answers.

In Afghanistan this was always going to be the pitiable result. The legacy of this one will live with us all for a very long time by raising an entire anti-western generation within that region.

With no exit policy in sight, and an even more strident PM in the Commons today words fail.

This is a pointless war and an even more pointless waste of life. I wonder how would Blair have felt about his children serving in the front line?