Forum menu
Try driving round Huston. Horrible, if you indicate to change lanes you have no chance
but I'm a believer that we should be charging for motorway use, as per on the continent.
A pay per use system like the French have would be a bit of a disaster, as people would use local roads to avoid motorways and they'd get snarled up even worse. But then again - maybe not, as the actual numbers of cars that'd need to be removed from say the M25 might be easily dispersed elsewhere. Dunno.
But the Vignette for all motorways like in Austria would be effectively a motoring tax, wouldn't it? Not that that's a bad thing mind but might be unpopular.
A pay per use system like the French have would be a bit of a disaster, as people would use local roads to avoid motorways and they'd get snarled up even worse. But then again - maybe not, as the actual numbers of cars that'd need to be removed from say the M25 might be easily dispersed elsewhere. Dunno.
ever heard of predict and provide? if you want to get people out of cars then the solution is to make driving harder. Yes people will scream, but IMO tough.
And as with a vignette, ALL drivers pay rather than some. I don't mind paying to use french and swiss roads i am wearing them out. Why should't continental drivers pay for access to UK roads?
Yes people will scream, but IMO tough.
Yeah but democracy...
US mega lane highways / interstates like above though are surprisingly not that scary when on them. They're split into on ramps, feeder lanes, main lanes and car pool lanes, and the rules are again nice and simple... there are no rules. Pick a lane and sit in it. Change lane in either direction if you need to overtake, and change to exit. Though there are some roads which apply the British system. Usually on big hills to encourage trucks to move to one side.
Problem with Britain is the move to the left rule and the BMW/Audi driver who sits in the middle. We're too polite so sit behind the guy in the middle lane. Undertake and all hell brakes loose.
In America, move to the right or left of him, and no one is bothered about it and there isn't a huge queue generated of people impatiently waiting behind when there's plenty of lanes to fill.
Our system works for fast flowing traffic, but not when it gets slow and congested. That's why road authorities recommend filling out lanes when you get 3 or 2 lanes into 1, but yet many pull to the left and get irate with those in the right and don't let them in. M25 needs a rule that says pick a lane, stay there but feel free to undertake if need be. Particularly when the speed limit is dropped to 50 or under.
US mega lane highways / interstates like above though are surprisingly not that scary when on them.
That's not my experience. Almost everyone, massive HGVs included, is speeding, tailgating and not really concentrating very hard. And the system is the same as the British system - you're meant to keep right in most places, but it's almost completely ignored. There are signs all over the place.
Our system works for fast flowing traffic, but not when it gets slow and congested.
M25 needs a rule that says pick a lane, stay there but feel free to undertake if need be.
Highway code has one.
And as with a vignette, ALL drivers pay rather than some. I don't mind paying to use french and swiss roads i am wearing them out. Why should't continental drivers pay for access to UK roads?
We [s]avoided it[/s] had to while driving on the continent. I don't have a problem as long as you don't have to buy a pass for a year, a la Switzerland.
Saying that, it cost us more to drive down half of Croatia for a day. But the road was totally empty and as smooth as...
Mind you finding the money to pay for better roads, the outcry from the Mail if they even think about tolls.
Doesn't the motorist contribute something like £40 [i]billion[/i] a year? The cost of bringing roads up to a decent standard is running at one tenth of that per year.
And yet tolls are thought acceptable despite such a huge amount of money being taken every year?
🙄
If the mind-buggering amount of money being planned for the insane vanity project that is HS2 was diverted and ring-fenced specifically for upgrading and maintenance of roads, then things would improve dramatically, although it would certainly take time.
Wouldn't it be better to simply improve the non-car infrastructure? Rather than upgrading the roads (making them bigger) Trains, bus etc and try get a double digit percentage of motorists off the roads?
If the mind-buggering amount of money being planned for the insane vanity project that is HS2 was diverted and ring-fenced specifically for upgrading and maintenance of roads, then things would improve dramatically
Things? Which things?
If the mind-buggering amount of money being planned for the insane vanity project that is HS2 was diverted and ring-fenced specifically for upgrading and maintenance of roads, then things would improve dramatically, although it would certainly take time.
Do you drive on the M25 much?
What would you spend the billions on to prevent congestion around the M3 and M4 junctions? There are already 4 lanes and it jams up just from pure weight of traffic. Would you suggest building more lanes?
What about the Dartford crossing?
European driving experience is limited to being a passenger from Charles design gaulle into the centre of Paris - something so terrifying we chose to return by train to the airport. Lane discipline? Don't make me laugh. Free for all doesn't even come close.
Extensive experience of the Washington belt way, Baltimore, and parts of pennsylvania suggest that the USA also generally goes with the free for all of terror approach, and while Americans tend to demand a fair degree of luxury in most aspects of daily life, it appears that they would quite happily sh*t in a bucket at the roadside going by the interstate services I had the misfortune to visit
hine - Member
Wouldn't it be better to simply improve the non-car infrastructure? Rather than upgrading the roads (making them bigger) Trains, bus etc and try get a double digit percentage of motorists off the roads?
Yes. half the problem is the "when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail" situation where car seems to be the only choice some people can see for all of their journeys. For some people this is true but for many it is not.
it appears that they would quite happily sh*t in a bucket at the roadside going by the interstate services I had the misfortune to visit
They vary massively across the country. Some are nice, but not many. The concept of 'services' is pretty rare anyway, since there are restaurants clustered around most inhabited exits anyway.
The issue is not enough roads in the UK. Especially motorways. 60 odd years after the motorway building program started and there is still not a motorway all the way between Glasgow and Edinburgh. Still to east coast motorway south from Edinburgh to Newcastle. Etc.
UK 3.5 thousand miles of motorway.
Germany 12.8k miles, France 11.4k miles.
It isn't any better by other measures.
Miles per capita (x1000) UK 54.9 Germany 158 France 171
M of motorway per sq Km UK 14.45 Germany 35.8 France 17.8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_length_of_expressways
Silly decisions are still being made. Within the last 5 years the A80 had roadworks on it for a year or more while being upgraded to motorway.It is the link between the junction of the M80 and the M73 at one end and the M80 and M876 at the other. So 4 lanes of N-S motorway at each end.
The new road was built as 2 lanes each way. Result - as soon as it opened there was peak hour congestion. Building it as dual 3 lane would have cost a bit more but coped with the existing traffic.
UK 3.5 thousand miles of motorway.Germany 12.8k miles,
Part of that is topgraphical, but also I reckon much of the German Autobahn is comparable with UK dual carriageways, so include those.
Building it as dual 3 lane would have cost a bit more but coped with the existing traffic
Yes but it would have generated more. It's well known that better road infrastructure generates more traffic. Reduce the commute time between two places by improving roads, and more people will make the journey until the commute time is the same.