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Straight back in, new home, £400 p/w direct to her account.
Ransos, how can this be banishment if she has willingly left?
Because she wishes to return, and some here wish to remove her right to do so.
What I think is being overlooked is the radicalisation aspect. As a junior our laws deem her to have been unable to make sound judgement on what she was doing.
She was of the age of criminal responsibility in the uk….
Because she wishes to return, and some here wish to remove her right to do so.
If the home office haggled with a country that was more fitting for her, she would probably voluntarily go there.
A Venn diagram of “let her rot” / Leave / armed forces folk would be interesting (based on my Facebook feed)
And people who use the phrase "I'm not racist but.." or believe that "Shakira" (sic) law is about to be imposed
She was of the age of criminal responsibility in the uk….
Is anyone saying that she should not stand trial for crimes she may have committed?
If that is the case raybanwomble it simplifies her handling, we should be actively trying to repatriate her to face justice.
As the Government has already said though, why run the risk of wasting British special forces and intelligence lives trying to repatriate her? Why punish her in the UK, when it will likely radicalise her even further and lead to her needing to be kept in solitary (which is ****ing inhumane) so that she cannot contact other prisoners.
There's precedent in granting Russian spooks/traitors asylum in this country, I don't see why the same idea can't be used here - another country more conducive to her world view could be found.
As the Government has already said though, why run the risk of wasting British special forces and intelligence lives trying to repatriate her?
Who is saying that we should take that risk?
That is the risk you would need to take to "actively repatriate her" as has been alluded to by the government, there is no consular presence in Syria - that means either an NGO has to be willing and able to get her out or British forces personnel - the government have stated that they see no reason to risk British lives repatriating her.
I doubt there are any NGO's willing to spend money and lives on it either.
Zero sympathy. Just remember the beheadings, pushing people off tall buildings, setting fire to people in cages etc. etc. etc.
I can't forgive any of this.
A Venn diagram of “let her rot” / Leave / armed forces folk would be interesting (based on my Facebook feed)
How so?
I can’t forgive any of this
I don’t think many are saying “forgive”.
This is a silly girl who realised she made a mistake.
Imagine for one second if it was your daughter. Would you want her back? I know I would.
Did she commit any crimes apart from running away?
Would you rather she stayed wherever she is and face possible more atrocities?
The lack of compassion and empathy on this thread is quite astounding.
or believe that “Shakira” (sic) law is about to be imposed
Well the hips don't lie...
Well the hips don’t lie…
And then when you least expect it - genius arrives! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
The lack of compassion and empathy on this thread is quite astounding.
Are you new here?
Imagine for one second if it was your daughter. Would you want her back? I know I would.
Yes. The parents/grandparents are probably literally the only people in the world who do want her.
Would you rather she stayed wherever she is and face possible more atrocities?
If it were both legally and morally possible then yes, I'd rather literally every volunteer member of ISIS stayed away from the Uk forever. Including this woman and her family. Do you see the UK as some kind of refugee for ISIS in the same way that South America was for Nazis? How many ISIS members would you like us to save from retribution by the Syrian/Iraqi people? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?
If we're going to take anyone from ISIS to save them from local retribution I'd far rather take someone who was forced to join them than a volunteer. One of the local young girls who was forced to be a sex worker or a child slave. Hardcore volunteers would be well down my list to help.
Do you see the UK as some kind of refugee for ISIS in the same way that South America was for Nazis?
No I don't.
She was a British teenager who did something silly. She wants to go home. Why not forgive?
Outofbreath, were talking about a British citizen here so the nazi/Argentina analogy is nonsense.
Straight back in, new home, £400 p/w direct to her account.
Then the papers will start a bidding war (sic) for the story followed by a degree then the book and the film and the lecture tour.
Probably even a Nobel.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
She made her bed when she left.
Coming back here to use NHS maternity facilities. **** off.
That is the risk you would need to take to “actively repatriate her” as has been alluded to by the government, there is no consular presence in Syria – that means either an NGO has to be willing and able to get her out or British forces personnel – the government have stated that they see no reason to risk British lives repatriating her.
I know all that. Who is arguing that she should be actively repatriated?
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
So the law only applies when it's people we like. Jolly good.
Outofbreath, were talking about a British citizen here so the nazi/Argentina analogy is nonsense.
Yes, we have to take her back because she's British, that's pretty much undeniable.
I was responding the "face possible more atrocities?" which implied Iolo wanted to bring her back to save her from atrocities. If that's the argument, then I'd say we should bring someone more deserving back. And that's the argument that the Nazi/Argentina analogy applies to, not the nationality argument.
One more thought. A lot of people are making a big thing of her lack of repentance. I doubt a camp full of surrendered Isis hard liners is somewhere where she can speak freely, so we need to be a bit careful.
Then the papers will start a bidding war (sic) for the story followed by a degree then the book and the film and the lecture tour.
This. If she can get out of Syria she's made for life. That 'Inside Isis' book will be a best seller.
OK. Let's use a Nazi analogy if you want.
The Nazis came to power as the people were disillusioned with life and were promised a better life.Adolf and co came to power by promising everything would be better. Once Hitler was in power, they realised it probably wasn't the best move but if they disagreed, they would "dealt" with. Sent to POW camps to die.
Imagine if you may a young muslim girl who was disillusioned with the uk and reads her life would be better so off she goes. When there she realised it was a mistake and wants to come home.
Would you rather help her or let her die?
Ah well it gives the media something to cover while there's nothing else happening.
When there she realised it was a mistake and wants to come home.
Pretty sure she said that she had "no regrets"
Would you rather help her or let her die?
except that she hasn't shown any regret for being out there, saying it was like normal life and that seeing severed heads in the bin didn't phaze her - so clearly your scenario about Nazi Germany holds no parallels to this.
She's made her choice, let her stay out there in the refugee camps so she can suffer along with all the other people displaced because of the people she went out there to join with.
One more thought. A lot of people are making a big thing of her lack of repentance. I doubt a camp full of surrendered Isis hard liners is somewhere where she can speak freely, so we need to be a bit careful.
If you heard the interview with the journalist who found her, they spoke privately and out of sight for about an hour, in which time she removed her niqab and faced him directly. I think she didn't show repentance because she is by and large unrepentant.
There's enough religious nut jobs (from all faiths) in society as it is. We don't need another, who has openly supported what ISIS has stood for, doesn't regret her actions, and has rejected all the values of our society . She only wants to come back to take advantage of our medical and social services. Why should we pay to protect/house/feed her (even imprison her) and her child. She hasn't denounced ISIS at all. We don't need people like this, shes made her bed. As have the rest who would rather live under a strict sharia law and support these nut jobs. International law doesn't come into it (it dose but it shouldn't). It up to our government to decide what is best for our country, and act accordingly.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
She made her bed when she left.
Normally, teenagers are applauded when they get round to making their beds. Why not this one?
Sounded unapologetic on the interview broadcast of R4 this morning
Sounded concerned for her 3rd child
No consular support in Syria, so would need to make her way to somewhere with a consul. Therefore, until she does, she stays in the camp.
If she manages it and comes "home" then investigate, and if necessary arrest and prosecute. It's the right way to do it, but doesn't pander to the growing gammon portion of society.
This shouldn't even be up for discussion (except on a forum) within government.
I know all that. Who is arguing that she should be actively repatriated?
The poster that I was responding to.
She hasn't realised she made a mistake though, she has said she didn't regret going out there. There's no remorse from her what so ever. She's also quoted saying that the first severed head was from an seized fighter who was an 'enemy of Islam'...that quote basically confirms that she is still radicalised.
She was a daft wee girl when she went out but it seems now that she's now a daft adult with the same ideals. If she came back saying she'd made a mistake and regretted everything then aye, let her back in, de-radicalise etc but she hasn't.
Some of the views on this thread are vile.
nowhere near as vile as the people she went out there to join and happily lived a 'normal' life amongst.
Caring for the actual refugees caused by ISIS should be a priority far higher than bringing her home.
Give her some money and tell her to try to get home by using the people traffickers her and her ilk have helped make rich. If she makes it, then put her on trial anyway...
Caring for the actual refugees caused by ISIS should be a priority far higher than bringing her home.
Problem is that most of the 'let her rot' camp don't care about them either
Imagine if you may a young muslim girl who was disillusioned with the uk and reads her life would be better so off she goes. When there she realised it was a mistake and wants to come home.
Would you rather help her or let her die?
Dont think she has realised it was a mistake though...
Ah well it gives the media something to cover while there’s nothing else happening.
Nah nothing else happening
It's not about what we want to happen to her, it's about what we should do with her.. where is your Human Compassion? ..let her come back but she will have to account for her actions.
She should be subject to the full force of a Jeremy Kyle shame interview on ITV, and made to cry. but she will not get any rehab help from Graham!
ransos
Subscriber
It seems to me that quite a few here are in favour of banishment and summary justice. Now, who does that remind me of…
Yip, it's insane and the predictable course of the thread. kinda why I was trying to steer it on to a legal route at the beginning.
There's fairly obviously ways to handle it all. Letting the mob decide her fate isn't really one of them.
If you heard the interview with the journalist who found her, they spoke privately and out of sight for about an hour, in which time she removed her niqab and faced him directly.
Thanks, that's conclusive.
I think the UK Government have got it right on this one -
"If she can make it to a local consul we will deal with her, but we're not risking anyone to go and rescue her"
Couldn't agree more... she made herself an enemy of the state and deserves nothing more than what has been offered.
Imagine the stink the 'let her rot' brigade would kick up if foreign born UK based sympathisers for IS could not be sent back to their country of birth because these countries refused to have them.
Those foreigners that are unsavoury here should be kicked to somewhere else. Our own unsavoury citizens should remain somewhere else. You cant have it both ways.
she made herself an enemy of the state
I'd think it's for a court of law to decide that.
As i said, I'm still struggling to see how "getting pumped" is a criminal offence. Is that the legal definition for "aiding and abetting" as was put forward earlier. I doubt it. If that's the case, we better start locking up the partners of everyone currently in jail.
I'd prefer a court decided mind you and look into it further and brings forward more realistic charges if necessary.
tpbiker
If you can give an example of anyone on this thread ‘almost’ going as far as to run off to a facist state in support of a group of violent extremists then fair enough..i must have missed that post.
You did miss that post although I am not surprised.
It was suggested that an SAS hit squad could perhaps put her out of her misery.
Condoning the execution by elite troops of someone living in the confines of a refugee camp with no recourse to legal representation or a fair trial seems fairly extreme to me.
If you heard the interview with the journalist who found her, they spoke privately and out of sight for about an hour, in which time she removed her niqab and faced him directly.
Thanks, that’s conclusive.
I'll take a first hand account (albeit over the radio, i admit I couldn't see his face to see if he was smirking) over your imagined account of whether she could speak freely or not. Thanks.