Our central heating has broke down. Apparently the "mid position valve" failed.
We think this is the 2nd failure of the valve in the last 5 or 6 years. It switches between house heating and water tank heating, so presumably gets a lot of use.
The engineer just came and fitted a replacement valve today on the maintenance plan. He is saying he needs to come back tomorrow to fit a "fernox filter". He says this is due to the system being old and "the circulating water quality is low" and the quality is so bad debris is causing the valve to jam and fail. This filter will cost £300.
He is claiming the filter will remove debris and limescale from the circulating water.
I am not up on heating systems but it seems odd to me that he is saying there is no need to change the circulating water or to flush the system in any way. The filter he wants to put in is not supposed to need any maintenance for a year. If the system is heavily contaminated is the filter not going to clog up really fast, esp if they dont bother to flush the system before installing it? Which make me think they are just 'upselling' instead of repairing.
I may be being really unfair to be suspicious, but Brit Gas have tried in the past to very hard sell us un-required things and indeed tried to charge us £1500 more for a replacement boiler than any other near quote from local firms, so I have become very distrusting of their ethos and selling techniques.
Grateful for any advice about getting this filter fitted / not flushing system. I have to leave the house now after waiting in for engineer, so cant answer any questions until evening. Thanks.
Whilst usually I wouldn't believe a word the lying bastards at BG spout, due to previous experience, on this occasion they may be right. But check the price!!
We had a new boiler a few years ago. Not BG! They also fitted one of these magnetic filters as our system and rad's were quite old. First six months and there was about half a kilo of black gunky metal stuff stuck to it! Since then it still picks stuff up so Get a a rinse out each service. Very easy to do and seems to do a good job of removing deposits which I guess would otherwise clog valves etc
It's just a magnetic filter to attempt to pull some of the crap out. The maintenance will probably only be you taking it apart to clean it every so often - it'll be obvious from the cleaning if it's doing anything. Looks like the sell for about £100 though, so the price might be taking the piss a bit (iirc they are very quick to fit too)
Should they be draining and flushing the system in addition to the filter fitting?
I’d drain & flush, then top up with inhibitor, very easy to do
Our CH system is the best part of 30 years old or more. Solenoids last about 15 years before I replace them when the motor dies. System had no filter till I added one 2-3 years ago.
The filter was a magnetic one.
Clean:
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4715/40234527702_1b87278948.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4715/40234527702_1b87278948.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/24iotku ]Magnetic Central Heating Filter[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
After 2 years of collecting rust
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4770/39568083544_4687f6ff2c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4770/39568083544_4687f6ff2c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/23huLGY ]Magnetic Central Heating Filter[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
Could stay in for years without reducing flow significantly....
NB I just fitted it out of curiosity really, no actual need in an old system. A modern boiler needs one as the heat exchangers have a really fine mesh which blocks easily. Our boiler is a large cast iron bowl with a gas jet underneath it, nothing to block and it's 20% full of limescale at the moment....
"I’d drain & flush, then top up with inhibitor, very easy to do"
thats after you fit the filter right ?
i fitted fernox filter to our new system - despite it all being very new and mostly JG speedfit pipe
its filled with fernox inhibitor/antifreeze (as its an outside boiler)
the filter doesnt take much out but it does get a little- better there than in the heat exchanger channels imo.
iirc it was 100 quid and involved drain down , cut the pipe install isolation valves top and bottom and the filter inbetween.
maintaiannce is literally - close off the isolation valves , drain filter , remove magnetic core , wipe clean , refit and open isolation valves - top up pressure.
Our boiler has failed on the same component 3 XMAS weeks in a row!
We were also advised to get the FERNOX and also a full flush ... I'll try and check prices but I the two together were almost the price of a new boiler.
I'm also rather sceptical....
Price including fitting (from 3 quotes just before xmas) was around 175 (down south).
If your system is dirty, they're worthwhile...
We have one in our system, although I didn't fit it and have never cleaned it.
I did take every radiator off the wall, carry it outside and jet wash them when we moved in. The water in there originally was black and a lot of sludge came out of all the radiators. Refitted them, filled, added inhibitor, bled etc.
Now if I have to drain something the water comes out crystal clear and I top up with inhibitor every so often*.
So......
The filter obviously wasn't removing everything. Draining and flushing doesn't remove the sludge, only taking the rads off completely does that. Making sure there's enough inhibitor seems to keep the water clear.
Annoyingly, the only thing ever to have actually failed on our system was the isolating valve on the pump which meant the system had to be completely drained to replace it!
*we do have a leak somewhere, in/under the concrete floor most likely, advice from the plumber was that even if we have to top up the pressure every fortnight, and put a bottle of inhibitor in every year indefinitely it will be less hassle than trying to install new pipework neatly!
BG have told us we need a Powerflush at £685 or they won’t cover any more heating problems under our Homecare policy. It’s about £400 from other service providers.
>*we do have a leak somewhere, in/under the concrete floor most likely, advice from the plumber was that even if we have to top up the pressure every fortnight, and put a bottle of inhibitor in every year indefinitely it will be less hassle than trying to install new pipework neatly!
Our heat exchanger started leaking out of the drain valve. I just left a saucer under it for a few months and eventually it self sealed with rust. Not leaked since and that was a few years back....
Am slightly nervous about using Fernox DS-40 to purge all the limescale again as it might open it back up.....
>The filter obviously wasn’t removing everything.
Well magnetic filters only remove iron particles. Also, a lot of the gunk doesn't circulate fully and just sits in the bottom of the rads minding its own business.
In an old system I would fit one of those magnetic filters, just because I like things to be clean and tidy. Our system is about 28 years old and because I always take care to add Fernox after doing any work the water is always clear with no signs of oxidisation and no hydrogen in the rads.
By the way Fernox liquid is just a powerful alkali; it makes your water alakline, which stops oxidation inside the steel rads. That's why Fernox looks and smells soapy.
Our new place had one fitted, no idea how often it had been serviced in the 5 years it had been installed, but it was packed when I cleaned it out.
Re BG (and others) they definitely try to rip you off, the insurance policies seem to be the excuse to try to upsell. I was told by SSE my boiler flue didn't meet regs (not enough supports) and to be covered it needed replace the whole flue - £1100 for parts, and 2 guys for a morning at £100 per hour. Piss take. I've bought the brackets needed to comply with current regs - £60.
>Re BG (and others) they definitely try to rip you
Next you'll be telling me the Pope is religious....
Unfortunately staff are too well trained in up-selling nowadays and the fact that they take their customers for idiots doesn't help. I had this conversation with a posh stove supplier in Ribchester, in the Ribble Valley:
"Hi, I need four new multifuel fire bricks for my Douvre 250 stove - can you supply?"
"Probably. What year is the stove?"
"Why?"
"Because they may have changed the design"
"It's 14 years old but no worry because I have a brick here in my hand and it measures seven inches by two and a half by one. I just need four the same."
"Well I'll have to check with the boss as they may have changed!"
"Yes but I've got one of the bricks here, it measures......"
And so on for two more cycles of stupidity before I terminated the conversation.
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