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But clearing houses are just part of the fabric of financial markets and are separate to trading.
"just"
but the US ain’t following EU rules
Not true.
Anyway... this is the kind of equivalence we will end up agreeing to, once the "sovereignty not interaction" policy gets dropped. Which it will. Eventually.
I asked a simple question about whether being outside the EU may have actually been a benefit in this situation. This is why I was hesitant about mentioning it because as you’ve amply demonstrated it’s impossible to have a sensible discussion on this without the culture war nonsense kicking in.
I'm having a bit of a problem with equating 'sensible' discussion, with 'they've thrown their dummies out of the pram'.
Anyway… this is the kind of equivalence we will end up agreeing to, once the “sovereignty not interaction” policy gets dropped. Which it will. Eventually.
Even a cursory knowledge of how equivalence works would lead to one knowing it doesn't involve any agreement between countries or another country following the rules of another.
Equivalence doesn’t require agreement? Go on…
Apologies Edukator, was only having a laugh, should have followed up with a wink emoji!
I imagine loving in France the pronoun thing can be an absolute nightmare with all that 'le' and 'la' business. Even common, everyday objects seem to have gender assignation, if you're not careful you can end up offending a toaster or a vacuum cleaner!
The Germans are way ahead of us and the French with this.
tillydog
Full MemberI think that this has been the objective all along. The omission of financial services from the “trade deal” was not a mistake. It is to leave the City Of London free for offer ‘innovative’ financial products / money laundering facilities to the rich and infamous.
And the thing about that is- it might well be true, with this lot, but it'll cost us money. It'll enable a few people and a few organisations to make more money, but it'll harm the industry as a whole. And also inevitably the shady end of the financial sector is far less stable. So make your own conclusions about whether the people who benefit a) are Tory party donors/members/actual bloody MPs/family members/school chums or b) us.
It’ll enable a few people and a few organisations to make more money, but it’ll harm the industry as a whole.
This.
I was speaking to my Brexit voting, 75 year old uncle over Christmas. We generally avoid the 'B' queestion but he voluntarily piped up that "We'd been lied to" Resisting the temptation to say "what did you expect you plonker" I instead chose to agree with him.
The Tories ramped up a culture war to get Brexit done but I can't see where they can take that culture war from here, especially with the new administration in the States. The Government has run out of scapegoats and all the chickens will come home to roost on their own doorstep as every individual feels a direct and clearly attributable impact due to Brexit.
I'm loathe to talk of 'healing' (curing cancer with prayer and all that) but finger pointing at Brexit voters who are now having doubts and indulging in schadenfreude will only extend the culture war. Theres a big difference between telling someone they were stupid for voting for brexit and saying "yes, the Government lied to us." Don't give them the excuse of going looking for new scapegoats. If they are beginning to see what a bunch of shits the Government are and that they have been taken for a ride then at least that will be something around which we can build a new consensus!
Meanwhile, Mrs David Cameron is struggling with brexit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55839256
I have various comments I could make involving terms like "karma" and "poetic justice," along with a YouTube clip of Windsor Davies, but really I think they're redundant here aren't they.
Love Reading remoaners comments, always makes me smile.. There pain not mine
Loved reading your bio, Dan:
Biography
Working class, can't stand violin playing middle classes that think, lock down is hard!!..
Love Reading remoaners comments, always makes me smile.. There pain not mine
Why not give other people a reason to be happy then, rather than being gleeful at their upset. What has Brexit done to make my life in the UK better, fairer or easier (speaking as someone from a working class background and not being a violin player)?
Does this mean I need to learn the violin?
Probably
Thanks glad you like it
I'd love to learn an instrument but lockdown is too hard!
Does this mean I need to learn the violin?
It will make the last part about lockdown being hard true. At least for anyone you live with and your neighbours.
Danfay you won enjoy....
Passtt .. careful what you wish for.
It’s all about the UK wanting to be a tax haven rather than be a main player in the ‘real economy’ that you and I work in.
And also avoiding scrutiny of the torys and their cronies tax affairs
many of them made their money out of tax avoidance
What TJ says and to sell the UKs data (NHS and beyond)
Not many people understand the value of the clinical data set to the likes of Google, Apple, Samsung, Insurance Companies the BUPAs - its worth billions every year.
Why not give other people a reason to be happy then, rather than being gleeful at their upset. What has Brexit done to make my life in the UK better, fairer or easier
BOOHOO SNOWFLAKES HAHAHA &c
/satire
Some members of my family believe that i will end up back at their level due to brexit (that will show you kind of thing) but the reality is that wont happen.
I live in the NE and I get the distinct impression this is a big factor in why brexit was heavily supported round these parts.
+1. And parents believing it'll make their kids come back home from the regions/cities they moved to for a better life, whether that was in the UK or in Europe.
TBH they have made some progress towards their goals. My job security and prospects have diminished, the weak pound keeps me holidaying in the UK, and I don't have nice German cars anymore. Things they themselves never had.
Cheers I will, and so will you once you stop throwing your teddies out!!!
Love Reading remoaners comments, always makes me smile.. There pain not mine
Shitty attitude.
Your life will probably get worse too, over time, you just haven't realised it yet.
I will danfay from the comfort of the South of France, bon chance. I shall be taking my teddies with me and my money and businesses - if its good enough for Jim from Ineos its good enough for me.
My son is learning the guitar, does that count?
I'm sorry brexit has been such a disappointment for you danfay, at some point we'll all stop laughing at the stupidity of it all!
Project fear.
Blue passports.
Love Reading remoaners comments, always makes me smile.. There pain not mine
As I've said previously and has been suggested on this thread a couple of pages back, and you've just demonstrated:
Remain was based out of love, it wanted to keep hold of what it liked.
Leave was based out of hate, it wanted rid of what it didn't.
I'm glad for you that sticking the boot in makes you smile. But understand that we're on a drizzly little island together and ultimately we all win or lose collectively.
We will win!!!.. Just give it time, have a bit more faith in your country.. And stop being so salty!!.
Also loving the comments!!.
What are you expecting to win and how much time do we need to give it?
I'm not being salty, you were the one saying that other people's pain made you smile. That's not very nice. Our resident RINO would be telling us off for that.
We will win!!!
Who will lose…? Or do all countries get to win…?
I imagine loving in France the pronoun thing can be an absolute nightmare
Probably the same consideration if you're living in France.
As for danfay - chewkw in disguise?
Be sure to tell us when you start to 'prosper mightily' now the brexit transition is over and we're enjoying the benefits of johnson's stonking deal.
'We will win' - according to johnson we already have won; are you suggesting it's jam tomorrow?
Love Reading remoaners comments, always makes me smile.. There pain not mine
And
We will win!!!
Sounds like you already ‘won’, if ‘winning’ = pointing and laughing at people’s real concerns/losses?
Give your head a wobble before patting yourself too hard on the back.
Eh?
We will win!!!.. Just give it time, have a bit more faith in your country.. And stop being so salty!!.
Britain is a great place to live. Somehow, people have been convinced it isn't and it's because someone else is cheating.
unfortunately, very real losses will need significant gains to replace. How long should people expect a reduction in quality of life? and, more importantly, Where will the gains come from?
brexit is one of the most socially and economically disruptive experiments ever. unfortunately, the test subjects are people.
"BREXIT BOOST: Norton revs up new motorcycle plant."
I've found it lads, the positive Brexit headline Ive been searxhing for. I saw it on today's daily telegraph website. Took a while to find it mind, buried as it was beneath all the sport and opinion pieces, about 70th in terms of article prominence.
From a paper that only a month ago would have had a dozen or more articles cheering on Brexit and chastising any sceptics as being harbingers of fake news. I think their subscription rates are going to begin to suffer. They've scripted themselves into a corner, they've left themselves with nothing more to write about. Readers won't just be leaving because of the editorial position, they'll be deserting the organ because of lack of content.
Wow this is gold lol
You hate middle classes that think?
What about those that clearly didn't, and got us this shitshow? Ignorance will soon prove not to be bliss, I'm afraid, when the boat goes down we all are in the water. Except the few that holed it, knowing where the lifejackets are kept.
Best bit is I voted remain!!!. Truth is I'm bored, I'm self isolating to help our wonderful NHS.. And got nothing better to do than wind people up.. I agree with you we're Doomed!!!. Anyway you'll all be glad I'm going to leave it there, and not return to this thread.
Thanks it kept me occupied for a bit lol
I don't know whether to post this here or in the Scottish referendum 2 thread.
An interesting read. Pointing out how close we are to the break up of the Union.
Linky no worky Matt.
And there is Brexit in a nutshell. Absolutely no benefit but you can wind people up for the lolz.
Tedious.
And there is Brexit in a nutshell. Absolutely no benefit but you can wind people up for the lolz.
Tedious.
Yep.
Utter ****wit and a key reason why we're in this mess. I bet though they know their place in society, and doff their cap as the man from the big house drives past.
I used to play violin, I'm really confused now.
I'm not musical or middle class.
Am I bollocksed?
Actually one of the tunes my son is learning on the guitar is Ode to Joy! (eu anthem)
No worries - "Ode to Joy" featured in the movie "Warrior" about two working class guys - one a teacher who's home is about to be repossessed and the other a soldier on AWOL after a "friendly fire" incident - knocking the crap out of each other 🙂
That's a good film. 🙂
That Brexit boost Norton thing isn't directly a Brexit thing. Parallels can be drawn, idiot gets into power, screws it up then leaves it for someone else to fix, or is it, Brexit devalued the £ so now foreigners can come in and buy up our heritage, but then I imagine that's not the line they're going with. They just seem to be using the term Brexit as a date marker or something, like BC / AD.
I honestly didn't think the EU would be the first to mess up the NI protocol:
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-eu-introduces-controls-on-vaccine-exports-to-northern-ireland-12202656
Boris and the Brexiteers will be ecstatic - 'we told you so...' FFS.
This whole Article 16 fiasco has me very intrigued.
We (the UK) have more vaccine options, and more production. The EU (European Commission to be precise) have ballsed up their vaccine contracts. We can get enough vaccines for our own rollout without needing to import, so what are the EU actually trying to achieve?
The only thing I can see they're achieving at the moment, is making their own member states question the EU.
All we need to do is sit back and do nothing, then let our exports commence once there is surplus production. We don't need to retaliate. We can just sit back and watch the EU at it's best/worst (either view is valid depending on your own take) fighting a battle that doesn't serve any purpose, other than to try and make it look like they're doing something.
As much as I think Brexit is a cluster**** of the greatest order, I do currently feel being out of the EU has freed us from a level of bureaucracy, and can leave the remaining members to try and tame the behemoth that's crippled their vaccine rollout, who are realising this is the doing of the EU, not the UK.
To be fair, if vaccines were being made in my country and we were short of vaccines and I had to watch those vaccines being driven out of my country to another country, I think I would question the value of my country if it didn’t try and do something about it.
As always the member states had their own options to explore. German commentator on PM earlier said something along the lines of the Germans throwing their lot in with the EU program in order to help take care of other member states who were not well placed to procure vaccine themselves. Sounds very altruistic to me but I suspect they're regretting going too far down the EU path without pursuing options in parallel. There would have been nothing stopping us doing that if we were still members and also we might have had the influence to recommend the EU put their money on black like we did earlier and got those plants spun up ahead of time. Manufacturing anything new is always fraught with problems. Manufacturing a novel product at such volume in such a short timescale was always going to be a bumpy road. Still. Hindsight.
As much as it sticks in my throat to imagine for a moment that this shower in government got anything right, ever, it does appear they placed the right bets at the right time on this one. Fair play.
Unfortunately for the spicy hot take merchants, the article 16 bit has now been walked back.
U-turns are definitely in vogue.
So danfay comes in and people seem to have had their troll detectors on mute?
The fact that BoJo stayed out of the vaccines programme and let Vallance pick who he wanted to lead it was probably fantastic for this country. As I understand it of course.
Every time the elected Brexies get involved they sod things up. Leave it to the unelected meritocratic bureaucrats to get it right.
Been quiet on here tonight...
Swallow summer - summer swallow.
Still, it all seems to be working out for our fishermen. The ones who voted for this en masse (South of Hadrian's Wall at least) and whom we've been told again and again and again are really important despite being a drop in the ocean (sorry) for our GDP.
Oh.
"If we knew this were going to happen..."
If only anyone had mentioned it in the last five years.
South of Hadrian’s Wall at least
Scottish fishermen generally voted leave, just like the English fishermen. There does seem to be be notion that Scotland voted remain and England voted leave. The reality is that both nations have leave and remain leaning pockets either by location or demographics. Trying to simplify nuanced issues is how we got in this mess.
What about the bit of England North of Hadrians wall that voted leave...
Macron indulging in a bit of schoolyard 'who's side are you on' infantilism. What with the vaccines nonsense and now this just what WTF is going on in Europe? They all seem to have gone a bit mental and unbelievably are making Johnson look like a statesman. Starmer must be pissed, he's had Boris on the ropes over covid for the past year and then the EU come along and hand him a get out of jail free card.
Theres nobody coming out of this looking good.
Its absolutely puerile on all sides
Macron indulging in a bit of schoolyard ‘who’s side are you on’ infantilism.
He’s saying that the UK still needs to decide which Brexit model it is going to follow… Singapore off the coast of Europe, close trading partner but not politically part of the EU, or closer alignment with the USA. All have been sold to us as the destination, and there is still a battle in the Conservative party about where we go. At some point we must decide, because it effects the alignment/divergence approach we are taking, and our partners around the world need to respond to.
Scottish fishermen generally voted leave
Perhaps the pelagic fleet felt more inclined towards Brexit and regaining sovereignty over our North Sea fish but on the west coast shellfish is the main catch and in my home town not one one skipper or crew mate was dumb enough to vote for Brexit.
^ Yes, that highlights the point about making sweeping generalisations with regard to Brexit. There are almost as many exceptions as rules.
Liam "many deals" Fox was on the news earlier laying into the EU smirking with oneupmanship towards towards the EU. My guess these smirks will be few and far between.
Singapore off the coast of Europe, close trading partner but not politically part of the EU, or closer alignment with the USA.
With the election of Joe Biden, that last option is no longer really on the table. Washington will be looking for a closer relationship with the EU and will probably do what the Stennaline ferries have done and bypass the UK completely.
We won't even be on the radar of the new US administration, apart from the odd bit of 'special relationship' (which never really existed) lip service. I also suspect that the US administration will take a pretty dim view of the Singapore off the coast of Europe model.
The Brexiteers have been doing a bit of rowing back. I see the 'review' of workers rights that Kwasi Kwarteng announced, to the delight of the headbangers, has been quietly shelved
Interesting about Stena line and Irish freight in general, Cork is building a huge new terminal for shipping direct to the continent.
The special relationship between the US and the Uk is a lot deeper than who is in the current administration. It goes back decades and is formed mainly on the intelligence community not trade. With the current surge of the Chinese and the Russians that relationship will only get stronger. The European Parliament has spat its dummy out, because it has poorly handled the procurement of the vaccines. It looks like it is trying to blame the Uk. The agreement with Astra Zeneca was on a best effort basis only and because they are 3-4 months behind ordering the vaccine production issues have hit, they realise to increase production they have to shut the production lines down and carry out some engineering upgrades that will pay dividends down the line. Unfortunate for the EU but it should mean better delivery down the line. I am really surprised the EU have acted in this way.
It goes back decades and is formed mainly on the intelligence community not trade.
This is very true. Mostly because intelligence is at the federal level. Trade, standards, taxation etc is much more at the state level. This is why a USA trade deal was expected to offer very little to the UK, even if it came good.
and unbelievably are making Johnson look like a statesman.
They really aren't.
I am down in West Wales a lot, Fishguard Pembroke Dock, in January can’t remember when I saw a foreign truck. They seem to of vanished overnight
I wonder if manufacturers who can't get parts to make their things (or get stuff to customers) are just furloughing their staff under the COVID scheme, because they can..?
UK has applied to join the Pacific Trade Pact.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55871373
It fits without saying the UK has one thing not in common with the other counties.
Poops, you couldn't make it up if you tried; beyond parody.
We wilfully leave the 2nd largest trading bloc in the world and now go chasing membership of something much smaller.
It's like Jurgen Klopp saying...we loved being one of the big boys in the premiership but what we now really want is to be in the Manders Paints southern alliance.
Talk about varnishing turds...
Very true Frank.
Still, gives something for Farage to campaign against in the future.😁 He might be able to get another cushy job from it somewhere too. He's burnt his bridges in Europe and the US so needs somewhere warm to retire after all.
Trying to find a glimmer of positivity here (I really am)... it'll be more useful if/ when the US join. We might also be the useful idiots a lot of those Pacific countries could exploit too. Actually, not so sure that's a positive for us.lol
In not going to bother with all the utter stupidness of it all though as life is too short.😕