Taking the US as example, the democrats have been a clear opposition to Trump and the EU is very willing to deal with Biden now Trump is going.
If Labour want to sort out a deal with Europe in the future they'd be better off abstaining or opposing anything Boris comes up with so that if ever they get back into power they can vote some EU compatible laws and try to salvage something, perhaps getting a Norway style relationship and pay whatever it costs.
Yes or No, that’s all people want to hear.
Whoa! Just been put flat on my back by the most sweeping of generalisations.
That is utter tosh. If Labour vote for a shitty deal the tory press will forever throw the 'rubber stamped by Labour' line out.
Abstain and leave the man child Johnson sat in the shitty nappy.
It seems the IMB law breaking was just another ruse to pretend we are “giving” something at the last minute.
Lib Dems, tuition fees, Starmers 6 tests...
Labour can support the deal, they will be reminded everyday about the crap that follows if they do.
The problem is though, perhaps BloJo won’t get his deal past the Brextremists in his own party if everyone else abstains.
So that would mean no deal.
Is Starmer willing to trash the country just so he can say well I didn’t vote for something slightly better than this? Even if that something wasn’t as good as the majority of the country wanted?
The problem is though, perhaps BloJo won’t get his deal past the Brextremists in his own party if everyone else abstains.
That's Johnson's problem. How the pieces fall if the loons cause a No Deal could be very interesting. You never know with stuff like this. GE next 2021 is not necessarily out of the question if we go over the cliff...
But ultimately, Boris, you cowardly shit - this is what happens when you tell different lies to different people.
Is Starmer willing to trash the country just so he can say well I didn’t vote for something slightly better than this? Even if that something wasn’t as good as the majority of the country wanted?
Hmm, so it's ok for the Tories to trash the country?
Let's put the blame where the blame needs to be put - the Tories!
In the unlikely situation that half the Tories vote down the deal… then Johnson is out, the party is spilt, again, and a new leader will be pushed into an election next year in the middle of the no deal fallout. So… if Johnson can’t get a deal through parliament on the votes of his own MPs alone… parliament will not be given that vote.
Today’s noise from all directions suggest the WA as regards NI will be stuck to though. That is genuinely good news, if kept to.
That’s Johnson’s problem.
In a functional democracy, with an intelligent and impartial media, politicians not beholden to corporate interests, and a voting public which assesses issues rationally and objectively, it would absolutely Johnson's problem. However we live in a country where the press are rabidly pro-tory, the national broadcaster is riddled with Boris's mates and hangers on, and public who will swallow anything presented to them on the 6 o'clock news or read in the Daily Mail. So what makes you think that Johnson will be blamed when it goes tits up?
Will the bill/deal get more than one chance to pass? If so Starmer just needs to leave it to the Tories for one or two passes & if it goes to a third then say they'll support it to put the country first because the Tories won't.
The deal we are going to get if any - and I still think its 99% there will be no deal - will be such poor stuff that Starmer must not vote for it. Only about 60 tories would rebel and vote down a deal so it still passes easily
If Starmner votes for it he will never be able to critise it again. it would be a colossal blunder to vote for it.
I still think its 99% there will be no deal
For how long thou 🙂
Looks like Jim has completely jumped ship to Hambach and Monaco.
Him and Dyson have a right laugh at the little people.
Well they do have to be based on a market that will be able to afford their cars. That's not going to be the uk soon
Jim Ratcliffe in "borderline sociopathic levels of business cynicism" shocker. Remember Grangemouth anyone? No, not the strike, the fact that the whole thing was provoked by Ineos purely as a negotiating tool for the Forties deal. "Yeah? You think I'm bluffing? Look, I'll totally close the plant for lolz, still think I'm bluffing?"
He is a genius tbf, just, unfortunately he's the sort of genius that cheerfully ruins lives to make an extra penny.
In a functional democracy, with an intelligent and impartial media, politicians not beholden to corporate interests, and a voting public which assesses issues rationally and objectively
Er, like where?
Looking forward to Labour screwing this up and letting the Tories off with it by voting for their deal, same as lib Dems and SNP* giving them the 2019 election and the lib Dems going into coalition with them.
It's weird how thick politicians are!
*TBF to the SNP, they were probably being really cynical - they need the UK to be at its worst to get Sexit. Morally questionable, but at least using the brain.
I am laughing at the thought of Johnson going head to head with Von der Leyen. Its hardly an equal contest and as we all know Johnson has no idea how to deal with powerful intelligent women. Oh for a spycam on the wall. do you think he will do his usual thing of trying to patronise her?
It might turn out for the best.
As a typical public schoolboy with a Thatcher fixation and a matron/nanny complex, when faced with a female in a position of authority he’ll no doubt do exactly what she tells him to do
If they leave Boris on his own we may well be back in the single market and the customs Union by tomorrow night
I would do anything she told me. Those eyes...............
More likely to try and her. Maybe he'll turn up with a ** ** and start with the line "I'm here to be ****** over, would you like to start with this?"
I have no idea how strict censorship is so I've left a few words to your imaginations.
Er, like where?
That was pretty much my point.
TJ in german politician fantasy shocker...
I would do anything she told me
It's being reported as a meeting over dinner - let's hope that johnson's wine glass is kept fully topped up; that might increase the possibility of him making a significant concession.
At least things are finally looking good for Northern Ireland. Cross everything…
The way this is going there won’t be a Northern Ireland in a few years. So much for the conservative and unionist party.
TJ in german politician fantasy shocker…
It was more that she scares me................
The way this is going there won’t be a Northern Ireland in a few years
i think we can take that as read. There won’t be a United Kingdom in a few years.
The only thing I can’t work out is if it’s part of some evil masterplan or it’s just that they’re so *ing dense and disconnected they don’t even realise it
Actually, now I’ve just written that sentence, I’ve just clarified things to myself
The only thing that seems obvious is that the DUP are even more *ing dense and don’t seem to have yet realised is that they’ve just been sold down the river
I bet they’re all glad they voted for Brexit, then supported Boris
Turkeys... Christmas...
Actually, if they stick to what’s proposed right now, there will be a Northern Ireland, and they’ll be no real need for NI to change its status, you can be Irish or British in the counties, and deal with the rest of Ireland and the EU in much the same way as you can now, with only limited restrictions on how you deal with the rUK (especially compared with all other European countries). NI could be the only bit of Britain that can continue to fully benefit from the EU+EEA&UK markets. I’m sure at some point soon reality will confound my optimism, but NI currently looks to have real damage limitation measures being but in place for them. Now… the rest of us…?
its only a sticking plaster for NI. Its going to have all sorts of repercussions and difficulties and trade across the irish sea will still be harder than trade across the border. United ireland is a certainty IMO
I think Scotland will be offski soon too
I actually think indepoendence for scotland has retreated because Idiots in the SNP seem intent on splitting the party
Brexit in two paragraphs.
"There is one Brexit deal. There has only ever been one. It has been there from the start, although hard to see through the fog. Its outline has been discernible behind plumes of rhetoric and misinformation billowing out from the Westminster political machine. It was there on the horizon the morning after the referendum. It has not moved during the thousands of hours of debate that followed.
The deal was already contained in article 50. It was in every bill in every late-night Commons vote. It was in Theresa May’s backstop and Boris Johnson’s alternative. It is the hard kernel of a soft Brexit and the soft underbelly of a hard one. It is the capital of Norwegian, Canadian and Australian-style Brexits. It is this: the UK will give up wealth in exchange for sovereignty."
If you voted for Brexit you voted to be poorer, for folk to lose their jobs and for the diminished status of the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/08/exit-brexit-deal-wealth-sovereignty-timescale
The deal in one line:
We don't want a deal, this is all a sham to cover up that fact.
Will the French be cheering Ineos in the TdF this year while we boo them in the TdY (assuming those races happen)
the way to the sunlit uplands is via shit creek
See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/08/codpieces-zeppelins-best-brexit
The pants are at ankle height and the government is begging us to be raped.
Gove lying again on R4 Today, making out that health insurance card will remain valid. Useless BBC not calling him out, as per usual.
He said "for a period" ... which means for 23 more days ... that he wasn't pressed on it boiled my piss ... and that wasn't even the low point of that "interview" ... I'm done with The Today Programme ... it's a joke now.
EDIT: Johnson vs Blackford at PMQs just now short and sharp, and sums up the current Brexit related trade off pretty damn well. The laughing PM saying that Scotland should be happy with its fish and ignore all that it's losing that NI is not.
Gove has previous on lying over points like this. He claimed that a Briish person's holiday home is protected "by the Treaty of Vienna", whereas the reality is that post-Brexit it will be potentially liable to punitive taxation.
The way BoJo is spouting off today, it looks like this trip is a total waste of time. No deal 100%
I was thinking the complete opposite.
The point where any one group of people are cheering his every word is normally the cue for the epic Boris betrayal where he sells them down the river.
Remember that this time last year he was being virtually carried aloft through the DUP conference as he triumphantly proclaimed that 'no British prime minister could ever sign up to a border in the Irish sea'
What did he do about 2 days later?
He then had the bare-faced effrontery to proclaim this betrayal as a huge triumph and maintained this right up until the point where it became politically expedient to renounce it again and drop it like a hot turd.
How anyone has got a shred of trust in the oily little shyster is beyond me. It was the ERG lot who got him elected and into number ten, but if they think for a second he won't throw them under the bus as readily as he did the DUP then they're delusional.
Only one thing matters to Boris and that's Boris, and he's such a coward that he will take the easy option every single time
