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Regarding settled status, the email you get when approved basically says Until we change our mind.
The official way of proving you have it is to log on to the website and show it there.
It is a relatively simple process, but already my Finnish wife has been asked to provide evidence of settled status (which you cannot, as there is no documentation provided)
Yeah that is annoying. You get an e-mail saying, "hey you have given settled status", and also, "hey this e-mail is not evidence of it". Thanks.
FYI: "I am pleased to inform you that your application under the EU Settlement Scheme has
been successful and that you have been granted Indefinite Leave in the United
Kingdom under Appendix EU to the Immigration Rules. This is also referred to as settled
status.
If you were within the UK on the date of your application, you have been granted
Indefinite Leave to Remain. If you were outside the UK on the date of your application,
you have been granted Indefinite Leave to Enter. This means that you have a secure
status under UK law and there is no time limit on how long you can stay in the UK.
You can continue (as set out in the important information below) to:
work in the UK
use the NHS
enrol in education or continue studying
access public funds such as benefits and pensions, if
you are eligible for them
travel in and out of the UK
Your status takes effect from the date of this letter, which can be found above.
You can continue to rely on any rights that you may have as an EEA or Swiss citizen
under EU law whilst those rights remain in force in the UK. Further information can be
found at www.gov.uk/right-to-reside.
Read the section below entitled important information to find out more about viewing your
status online, including how to share it with others, and about your status and rights,
including your right to work and to access benefits and services.
This letter is your written notification of leave, which you may wish to keep for your
personal records, but it is not proof of your status and cannot be used to prove your
status to others.
Instead, you can view and share details of your status with others using the Home Office
online status service 'View and Prove your Settled and Pre-Settled Status':
www.gov.uk/view-your-settled-status."
What Hannan, Raab, Patel and the rest of them failed to take into account was, we were riding a bike.
👏🏽
I’ll be stealing this one.
‘View and Prove your Settled and Pre-Settled Status’
It does seem designed to be easily retracted at a moments notice. I don’t think that’s on the cards… but it hasn’t exactly been designed to reassure nonUK citizens that their places here, and rights here, are secure, has it.
National boundaries are stupid.
Totally agree. I've said many times we should have completely open borders with all countries, but I've been shouted down more than once on here for saying that. Sadly those of us who think this are in a tiny minority, and we've failed to persuade others how their jobs and incomes would be protected from a race to the bottom wiith imported labour. We can't have it both ways, if we want free movement, you have to protect incomes and provide economic security, and we failed to do that, so hardly a surprise then that those affected vote to take it away.
odd - just tried to renew my EHIC before the portcullis closes and cannot.
I left the U.K. 5 months ago, in a large part due to brexit.
I am upset at having my European identity taken from me. I was born a European and I believe that identity has been taken from me for all the wrong reasons.
I will no longer contribute to the U.K., at least until the nation’s course is corrected. I am the beneficiary of a good Russel group education, followed by decades of European economic development funding. I’ve taken that experience elsewhere where it will securely provide for me and mine until the time is right to return.
It’s an entirely selfish decision I’ve taken because I’m not contributing to the solution to Brexit, I’m simply running away.
It feels like the right decision at the moment though.
so hardly a surprise then that those affected vote to take it away
It shouldn't come as a surprise to them, then, when no one else gives a shit if they are affected first and worst by their own actions.
🤷♂️
It shouldn’t come as a surprise to them, then, when no one else gives a shit
Why would it come as a surprise when they already know no one gives a shit about them? This isn't the result of brexit, it's the cause.
Why would it come as a surprise when they already know no one gives a shit about them? This isn’t the result of brexit, it’s the cause.
Politics born of envy and resentment is never good politics.
Politics born of envy and resentment is never good politics.
Bloody poor people with their petty jealousies!
The solution to which is to elect a government of Eton-educated spivs who will deliver the ultimate far-right project to remove what rights they have left and turbo-charge inequality
Well done to everyone involved
Bloody poor people with their petty jealousies!
In terms of effort needed to have a roof overhead, most likely a smartphone, pretty likely a car etc. people in this country are among the best-off in the world. But hey, spit in the soup so we can move a bit closer to the realities of much of the rest of the world! Genius move....
The solution to which is to elect a government of Eton-educated spivs who will deliver the ultimate far-right project to remove what rights they have left and turbo-charge inequality
Well done to everyone involved
Don't forget about appealing to a bit of nudge-nudge racism into the bargain.
Not saying this is any more accurate than other views I’ve read but does seem quite succinct regarding the overall position.
https://www.cer.eu/insights/ten-reflections-sovereignty-first-brexit
+1
Well worth a read/
most likely a smartphone
That's a cracker. The entire brexit debate summed up in one stunningly ignorant, patronising and arrogant point. You should get some sort of award.
This feels like a “squirrel!” sidetrack… but what the hey… about half the people in the world have a smartphone, and about half do not. Everyone I know in this country is in the more privileged half as regards being digitally connected. There are exceptions, of course. What was the point…?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/289167/mobile-phone-penetration-in-the-uk/
Bloody poor people with their petty jealousies!
Got any solutions daz? I mean other than just coming on here slating people who didn't vote for brexit and also held their noses and voted for Corbyn? I'm not sure what else we were supposed to do in practical terms?
Why would it come as a surprise when they already know no one gives a shit about them? This isn’t the result of brexit, it’s the cause.
I thought it (the cause) was ‘for our sovereignty’ and just the small issue of ‘bloody foreigners’ and ‘look after our own’ (and also the small but not inconsiderable efforts of half a century of jingoistic tabloidism drip-drip-drip telling us that we’re being stiffed by Johnny Foreigner and that ‘educated people’/‘the elite’/bloody do-gooders/students, etc etc are all in cahoots with/are useful idiots for the foreigners/commies/Islamic takeover/shadowy cabal of Jewish media etc etc etc?
Or did I miss all that and it was some nationwide tendency of middle-class families in a BMW sneering at ‘the poor’? I was a ‘poor’ street sweeper (it’s all relative) and some people sneered at me. To my face. Didn’t mean that I was ready to subscribe to the Daily Heil and take all of my opinions from mr jingo down the pub in his cups. I do though also remember being socially sneered at by some of my ‘peers’ for (ironically) picking up my own litter and seeming to care about ‘foreigners’ as well as myself and ‘mine’. Seriously. Bloody hell what a mess this country is. And I’m still poor (in debt, no property, hand me down car about to fail the MOT) should I feel angry at my Dr, or my neighbour with the Tesla?
Got any solutions daz?
There aren't any quick ones. The core problem IMO is the lack of political engagement of the public. We have a system where the people have very little involvement or agency in how they are governed, and they're asked to trust politicians and others to act in their interests. The trouble is our political representatives and other leaders repeatedly fail to do that and instead act in their own interests or those of their friends at the top. How often do we hear 'they're all the same' or 'they're only in it for themselves' when people talk about politicians?
The only way to solve that is to find ways of giving power back to people, and rebuilding trust between them and their leaders. Rightly or wrongly I think that's what brexit voters think they're doing by leaving the EU. They're going to be disappointed of course, and things will get worse before they improve. It probably needs a new party to emerge like in France to as the two ruling parties (in england at least) are busted flushes. Trouble is in England we're more likely to go down the reactionary nationalist path than the centrist liberal one like the french did with Macron.
The core problem IMO is the lack of political engagement of the public.
Farage was great at that. So more of him then?
It does seem designed to be easily retracted at a moments notice. I don’t think that’s on the cards… but it hasn’t exactly been designed to reassure nonUK citizens that their places here, and rights here, are secure, has it.
Windrush. of course there is a reason why there is no evidence.
The core problem IMO is the lack of political engagement of the public
Well, at the first opportunity of 'direct democracy' 'we' ticked the box marked "pant-shitting xenophobic far right wing tantrum".
Not off to a great start, then.
The only way to solve that is to find ways of giving power back to people, and rebuilding trust between them and their leaders. Rightly or wrongly I think that’s what brexit voters think they’re doing by leaving the EU. They’re going to be disappointed of course, and things will get worse...
I agree.
I took out “before they improve’… because you haven’t explained that bit… we can see how the ‘get worse’ bit is going to happen… how does that end up with anything but a spiralling in on increased unilateralism and anti-foreigner little England driven politics?
Trouble is in England we’re more likely to go down the reactionary nationalist path than the centrist liberal one like the french did with Macron.
I agree.
These are all easy things to agree on. You were asked what the solutions look like…
Farage was great at that. So more of him then?
Like all populist snake oil salesmen Farage is very good at speaking to people as equals and making them think he's one of them. If mainstream politicians don't start listening and acting on the concerns of normal people then Farage will gain more popularity and more power.
The core problem IMO is the lack of political engagement of the public.
Which in turn is down to education. Lots of people don't know what any of it means so they don't bother to vote or they just vote based on what their families do or how the candidates dress or some other sentiment. Lots of people say stuff like "they're all the same what's the point?" Well they really aren't all the same, not at all.
Farage was great at that.
That's not political engagement, that's just persuading people to do what he wants. Political engagement means questioning, thinking, and challenging. Farage aimed for the opposite of this.
Political engagement means questioning, thinking, and challenging. Farage aimed for the opposite of this.
Populism. It works on people who don't like to think too much.
It’s being debated now. I’ve heard more convincing door-to-door brush salesmen.
I'm avoiding listening to it as it'll make me far too angry. It's pretty much nailed on that this shitty deal will be passed anyway, the interesting bit will be in seeing who the abstainers are and who went against their party. I've written to my MP explaining my position on the matter, not expecting a reply though. It was bad enough biting my tongue while talking to my mum and dad yesterday as they blathered on about the new opportunities and that we're better off alone in the world etc.
Starmer is in the familiar position of quoting the detail of a treaty that the buffoon across from him clearly hasn’t bothered to read. Boris is doing his usual bluster and bullshit, using his slogans to try and deflect from the fact that he hasn’t actually got a clue about any of the details of what are incredibly important issues for the future of our country
This paper-thin deal is being driven through today purely for political expediency on behalf of that mop-headed charlatan
It’s a truly sad day
True. I'd go out on me bike but it's still icy. Starmer is making some good points, sounds like he's read it. Or his researcher's have.
Theresa May pointing out the ways in which this deal is considerably worse than hers, that Boris voted against saying it was a terrible deal for the UK
But she’ll vote for it anyway, as will the Labour Party, simply because it’s either this crap deal or the worst-case scenario of a no deal crash out.
That’s it! The only 2 options now available
You really couldn’t make this shit up
I wrote this on my Facebook page earlier this morning:
If anyone is expecting today's vote over the Brexit Deal to be the end of it you are very much mistaken. This is only the beginning. Here's why:
The Agreement is woefully lacking in any detail.
It's full of outdated references to Treaties, technology and even one case of a country that no longer exists.
There has been absolutely no time to scrutinise the text, leaving it wide open to challenges, legal clarifications and even having parts declared null and void.
This version is only a starting point. We will be stuck in a constant loop of revisions, amendments and challenges for decades to come.
It doesn't do what people think it does, namely we are still going to have to follow EU rules and standards if we want any chance of selling goods and services to any country inside the EU.
There is no provision set out in it for cross-border services ie FInance. Financial services are a huge part of the UK's GDP so if that is jeopardised in any way (clue: this agreement throws it under a bus) then we, as a country, will massively suffer.
The government have told a different version of what it contains to every different group that has asked. The only conclusion you can draw from this is that they either don't know what is in it or it doesn't do any of these promises and they're hoping that the lack of time to scrutinise it means they will not get found out.Nearly every promise that the Government have made about what they could achieve with this 'Oven-Ready' deal has been found out to be a lie. The deal that Teresa May brokered a few years ago was better than this one but Boris and Co voted against it as it wasn't good enough. Nothing is right about how this last-minute deal is being handled and 'sold' to the British public so there is going to be lots of uncertainty, mess and pain for the next few years while the ramifications of what happens today play out.
I fully expect certain people to disagree with me on this, I can guess who they will be, but this is what I fear is going to happen. The Government cannot be trusted on this right now so be vary wary about what you voted/wished for, it could be a bumpy ride.
Don't know if people agree with it on here but it's my thoughts. You can guess how quickly it got loads of comments and what they said!
The only way to solve that is to find ways of giving power back to people,
**** that, as a revolutionary yourself Dazh given half a chance the public would string you up. Most of the public are petty vindictive self centred conservative reactionaries who can’t be trusted to run a bath, let alone a system of collective local govt. there’d be poor houses, public flogging, and curfews before the end of the first week of “people power”
Theresa May pointing out the ways in which this deal is considerably worse than hers, that Boris voted against saying it was a terrible deal for the UK
It's almost as if Boris was against Theresa May's deal because it suited his own ambition to be leader, and not for the good of the country.
But she’ll vote for it anyway, as will the Labour Party, simply because it’s either this crap deal or the worst-case scenario of a no deal crash out.
Hold on a minute!
But she’ll vote for it anyway, as will the Labour Party, simply because it’s either this crap deal or the worst-case scenario of a no deal crash out.
It would still pass easily if labour abstain. voting for it is a huge mistake
Couldn’t agree more TJ. There’s no way Labour should be voting for this. Boris and his ERG chums should be left in complete ownership of this shambles, as the real-world implications of it become reality over the coming months and years.
Starmer is making a huge mistake today. There are no good options left, but the Labour Party should not be touching this with a barge pole
**** that, as a revolutionary yourself Dazh
Seems to be some misunderstanding cos I'm not suggesting anything revolutionary and I certainly wouldn't class myself as one. Not unless we now consider old fashioned social democratic policies as that. It wasn't long ago that working people had secure jobs, weren't being ripped off by utility companies, had pensions to look forward to, could get a doctor's appointment, and could send their kids off to university or college without worrying about how much debt they'll be in. That's the starting point, and its hardly revolutionary. If the balance isn't tipped back in the favour of working people and away from the landlords and spivs then they'll continue voting for shit like brexit and listening to the likes of Farage and Boris. That's all I'm talking about.
Brexit is happening, and Labour have no control or influence over it. By voting No or abstaining Labour will be essentially saying “we’d like no deal please”
its rubbish but that’s the reality, “would sir like his shit sandwich on brown or white bread...”
It wasn’t long ago that working people had secure jobs, weren’t being ripped off by utility companies, had pensions to look forward to, could get a doctor’s appointment, and could send their kids off to university or college without worrying about how much debt they’ll be in
have you fallen over and hit your head? This may have been the reality in some ****ing alternative Britain that may only be accessible through the back of a wardrobe, but it’s fake nostalgia at best.
Starmer is making a huge mistake today. There are no good options left, but the Labour Party should not be touching this with a barge pole
It's really odd watching people on here who normally preach pragmatism and political expediency call for ideological purity. Such is the nature of brexit I guess. There are no good choices for labour on brexit, there never has been, but it seems some still haven't realised that.
Boris and his ERG chums should be left in complete ownership of this shambles
You think the british billionaire-owned media will allow that to happen? However it pans out they will get away with it, because they always do. I've long been of the opinion that the UK, more than any other country, is in the unchallenged grip of the billionaires, with Murdoch at the top of the oligarchy. Brexit is the proof of that.
With Johnson being openly and explicitly sponsored by the Telegraph, and Gove by The Times... whatever could you mean Dazh?
I agree with all that post by the way.
but it’s fake nostalgia at best.
It's really not. I could take you back to my hometown and introduce you to any number of working class people who lived their lives in exactly this environment and are now enjoying their retirement with the security of a decent pension behind them. My dad is one of them. He's not stupid, he can see that working class kids are not going to grow up with the same security and opportunities that he and his kids enjoyed, and he's pretty pissed off about that.
Labour voting for the deal is cold hard logic but logic has long since left the brexit building. Starmer is hoping that people will take a nuanced view when they consider labours involvement in this but he seems to be wildly overestimating the voting public
He's just allowing the government and their media friends to spin today's vote for their own ends, for years and over election cycles
They'll drag you down into Chinatown starmer
I can see why he's doing it but abstaining is least worst option, certainly now that ERG are on board with the deal.
And announcing they would most probably be voting for the deal before they'd seen it was perhaps his biggest mistake
I'd love to see a switcheroo with a a 3 line whip to abstain but that's obviously pie in the sky
The only uncertainty is the abstentions and whether or not it'll just be greater London backbenchers, surely some shadow cabinet resignations by the end of the day? Which is just grandstanding if there's a reshuffle on the way
At the end of the day, with an 80 seat majority and even the ERG onside the Labour Party is utterly irrelevant. This crappy deal is going through today, whatever
It doesn’t matter what they do. It’ll make * all difference, but by abstaining you can at least you can say ‘this is * all to do with us. Blame that lot for what’s about to happen, not us’
**** that, as a revolutionary yourself Dazh given half a chance the public would string you up. Most of the public are petty vindictive self centred conservative reactionaries who can’t be trusted to run a bath, let alone a system of collective local govt. there’d be poor houses, public flogging, and curfews before the end of the first week of “people power”
I couldn't agree more. Brexit is the classic expression of this petty nastiness and insularity.
Idiots stripped the shelves of pasta and bog roll a few months back because they wanted to be 'alright Jack'. They also stripped out pretty much all the fresh veg - most of which probably got chucked after a week.
Daz'll still be banging on about 'salt of the earth working class heroes who just want a voice' as the last two are beating each other to death over a bag of orzo pasta - that neither of them has the faintest idea what to do with.
Solidarity? Bullshit.
Those Britannia Unchained 'authors' knew full well what they are working with here - a nation with a large enough % of people that don't give a shit about anyone but themselves - perfect raw material for a race to the bottom.
All the Lexiteers who actually think the shock of the next few years is going to rekindle socialism are utterly deluded.
The vote is irrelevant. This Government already has the power to put put through without parliamentary approval. Starmers best bet would be to have not taken part in the debate at all.
but by abstaining you can at least you can say ‘this is **** all to do with us. Blame that lot for what’s about to happen, not us’
It'll also allow the tories to say 'labour refused to accept the result of the referendum and tried to overturn it'. That's what lost them the last election, and it overides every other consideration. It's interesting though, because Starmer's position proves the point that brexit was the key issue in the 2019 election defeat. If it wasn't he wouldn't be doing what he's doing now.
And I cannot for the life of me understand why Starmer is going to vote for this shitty deal. It will go through anyway (clue - the ERG are happy with it which either means it is going to be dreadful for 99.99% because of its contents, but more likely its omissions). Labour should either vote against or abstain with the sentiment that this is a Tory mess caused by nasty parochial Tory politics. He should end by saying that Labour will continue to provide effective opposition and will welcome 'back' their Red Wall voters when they've grown up a bit.
That’s what lost them the last election, and it overides every other consideration.
No. It. Doesn't.
Labour should make Johnson own the shit show.
By voting No or abstaining Labour will be essentially saying “we’d like no deal please”
Not at all. they would be saying " this is a shit tory deal - own it. its nothig n to do with us"
It’s really odd watching people on here who normally preach pragmatism and political expediency call for ideological purity.
Its not ideological purity - its real politics. Voting for this shit deal will forever give the tories a way out. any critism and then " you voted for it" Make them own it in its entirity. labour do not have to vote against - merely abstain
but by abstaining you can at least you can say ‘this is **** all to do with it.
nope today’s vote is either “yes please I’d like a deal” or “no thanks I’d like no-deal”. There are no other options on offer, that’s your choice today.
In many ways, it’s a good day to be a remainer and a bad day for the Brexiteers, because as bad as this deal is, it’s an easier place to start broader negotiations for more favourable terms than the alternative.
Long term view; this is the start of the end of the Brexit experiment
Idiots stripped the shelves of pasta and bog roll a few months back because they wanted to be ‘alright Jack’.
You do talk some bollocks. Having an 'I'm alright jack' attitude is not unique to brexit voters or the working class. Must be lovely though for you up there on your moralistic pedestal, looking down on the uncouth hordes fighting for scraps. Get over yourself FFS.
Yeah I don't actually mind Brexit so much now, because it's mostly **** wit brexiteers who won't be able to afford it. I won't have to see as many thickies tanked up on cheap holidays in Europe.
Oh dear, how sad, nevermind.
nope today’s vote is either “yes please I’d like a deal” or “no thanks I’d like no-deal”. There are no other options on offer, that’s your choice today.
No - the third choice is - its a tory mess, we want no part of it. abstain,.
No – the third choice is – its a tory mess, we want no part of it. abstain,.
None of us, not even Starmer actually knows what the right approach is for labour, because its a problem without a solution. Starmer is clearly taking the view that labour should never again be allowed to be labelled as the party who wouldn't accept the 'will of the people' (a stupid phrase BTW but one that hits home). We'll just have to wait and see if he's right. Personally I think he's taking the right approach. The only hope for labour is to neutralise brexit as much as possible, and the best way to do that is to go with it.
Dazh has nailed it, I feel.
You do talk some bollocks. Having an ‘I’m alright jack’ attitude is not unique to brexit voters or the working class. Must be lovely though for you up there on your moralistic pedestal, looking down on the uncouth hordes fighting for scraps. Get over yourself FFS.
Truth hurts, eh?
And in any case, you are right that the attitudes I have disdain for are not restricted to a particular 'class' or whatever. But they are too prevalent across society for there to be any hope of some kind of 'Peaceful British Revolution' - of the type usually named after a flower.
It ain't going to happen.
If there is so much of a sniff the press and social media will be full of stories about how anyone other than the Tories want to take your three bed semi off of you and give it to a benefits cheat / single parent family / foreigner. Possibly with a "isn't Meghan Markle a devious foreign home wrecker?" 'feature' and a free cut out and keep cross of St. George if they are really feeling the heat.
And the masses will immediately revert to type and start kicking downwards, sideways, upwards, but mainly just kicking. They voted for a jazz-hatted bumbling old Etonian liar who hid in a fridge - because he told them lies they wanted to hear. And he has previously indulged in some wink-wink nudge-nudge racism, which means he is really on their side and a 'straight talker'.
In many ways, it’s a good day to be a remainer and a bad day for the Brexiteers, because as bad as this deal is, it’s an easier place to start broader negotiations for more favourable terms than the alternative.
Accept the deal, start pointing out, from day one, where and how it is flawed. Be ready at the next election to propose major improvements to how we work with the rest of continent, but in a way that makes it clear that is about improving on the deal "for us"... in the national interest... etc. That's not what I want... but it really does look like the least worst option for Labour at this point, if they want to ever be in a position to start making a difference.
It ain’t going to happen.
There is a (mostly) peaceful revolution under way right now. But you are right... it is one based on kicking out at others... even if doing so with an ever increasing blooded and bruised set of toes.
According to the grauniad most folk want labour to vote for the deal. I find that surprising. to me voting for it is a monumental blunder on a scale I have not seen from labour for generations. Its worse than standing with the tories on the independence ref, its worse than Ian Murry and his vote tory to get rid of snp idiocy
IMO its the end of labour as an political force for good if they vote for it. I consider it that fundamantal. voting for the deal means the tories can deflcrt blame onto labour. Labour must make the tories own this mess lock stock and barrel
According to the grauniad most folk want labour to vote for the deal. I find that surprising.
Margaret Beckett has just stated that not voting for the Deal is voting for No Deal. If even she doesn't understand the true position then what chance has the average Guardian reader?
What other deal will be available this week?
None of us, not even Starmer actually knows what the right approach is for labour, because its a problem without a solution. Starmer is clearly taking the view that labour should never again be allowed to be labelled as the party who wouldn’t accept the ‘will of the people’ (a stupid phrase BTW but one that hits home). We’ll just have to wait and see if he’s right. Personally I think he’s taking the right approach. The only hope for labour is to neutralise brexit as much as possible, and the best way to do that is to go with it.
Yep, damned if you do, damned if you don’t, every options a lose lose position.
Although I don’t think Starmer should have said he was voting for it before it was published.
Course it’s all for show, as my right honourable member scotroutes says, Boris doesn’t have to have to put it to a vote.
I suppose we should be putting bets on how long it is before Forage and co decide it’s not the deal they wanted.
According to the grauniad most folk want labour to vote for the deal. I find that surprising.
Brexit fatigue. Most people just want it over and done with, including many remainers. Starmer I suspect is one of them, the last thing he wants to be talking about come the next election is brexit.
Not sure, it could be all about Brexit the next election.
Once people get to unwrap the kinders surprise of Brexit who knows what they’ll think.
There is no third choice TJ that option let the table months and months ago. Labour voters voted for Brexit as well...
Starmer I suspect is one of them, the last thing he wants to be talking about come the next election is brexit.
He won't have any choice. This "deal" has been written so that most decisions* are kicked down the road... including the one "win" in the deal... tariff free access for most goods... to be renegotiated in four years time. It will dominate the next election, sadly.
[* the ones the UK government needs to make, but this one refuses to]
I can see why he’s doing it but abstaining is least worst option, certainly now that ERG are on board with the deal.
Agree that now the ERG are on board with the deal and there's no risk of it becoming no deal by default, there's no reason for Starmer and Labour to vote for it. There's nothing to be saved by voting for it now, and doing so just gives the Press and the Tories a big stick to beat him with.
I do find it strange that dazh is all over the Starmer thread decrying him for being too 'corporate' and 'centrist' and insufficiently left wing whilst a mere two clicks away he is here applauding him for enabling the biggest 'legitimate' nationalist political event ever to happen in Britain.
Dangerous stuff combining socialism with nationalism.
There’s nothing to be saved by voting for it now, and doing so just gives the Press and the Tories a big stick to beat him with.
Both options give them a big stick to beat Labour with though... you get that, yes? Abstaining (which is what I'd rather Labour did) would be used as a populist stick to beat Labour just as readily and successfully. The voters that would work best with are arguably the ones Labour most need to win over to voting for them.
Brexit fatigue. Most people just want it over and done with
Not Theresa. 😉
Despite Mr Johnson’s calls for Britain to move on from Brexit, she called on the government to resume negotiations “with alacrity and vigour” to improve the UK’s position on services.
The “Deal” is another carefully orchestrated deceit.
Like the the way the ‘withdrawal agreement’ was allowed to be misconstrued as the ‘oven ready’ deal.
A useful sound bite which didn’t require a bus this time.
Personal call is that Starmer should not ask Labour to abstain, nor should he ask them to vote in any particular direction.
Rather as a matter key to Britain’s future but where many people have deeply held views, it should be left to MPs’ conscience. He unlike BoJo will not bully his MPs (and deselect / de-whip those who don’t comply). He will vote personally in the manner which he believes in all the circumstances, and with the year end providing a gun to his head, is the right way at this time.
Dangerous stuff combining socialism with nationalism.
We're heading back in the direction of me being a nazi sympathiser again?
It will dominate the next election, sadly.
I fear you're right, but not in the way you think. It will be 'we got brexit done' and a load of jingoistic nonsense about Britannia unleashed etc. Brexit will not be the chain round the necks of the tories as everyone assumes, the tory press will make sure of that. Add in a bit of 'we beat covid too' and the tories are a shoe-in. In fact I'm pretty confident they'll increase their majority in '24 (or '23 once they've got rid of the fixed parliament act).
We’re heading back in the direction of me being a nazi sympathiser again?
I'd really like you to have a go at squaring your stance on Brexit with your stance on where the Labour Party should 'go next'. With the outcomes you would deem desirable.
Dangerous stuff combining socialism with ethnonationalism.
There fixed it for you.
I’d really like you to have a go at squaring your stance on Brexit with your stance on where the Labour Party should ‘go next’.
Do you even understand my stance on brexit or labour? I doubt you do, so you'll need to explain first where you think I can't square the two things.