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TJ in german politician fantasy shocker...
I would do anything she told me
It's being reported as a meeting over dinner - let's hope that johnson's wine glass is kept fully topped up; that might increase the possibility of him making a significant concession.
At least things are finally looking good for Northern Ireland. Cross everything…
The way this is going there won’t be a Northern Ireland in a few years. So much for the conservative and unionist party.
TJ in german politician fantasy shocker…
It was more that she scares me................
The way this is going there won’t be a Northern Ireland in a few years
i think we can take that as read. There won’t be a United Kingdom in a few years.
The only thing I can’t work out is if it’s part of some evil masterplan or it’s just that they’re so *ing dense and disconnected they don’t even realise it
Actually, now I’ve just written that sentence, I’ve just clarified things to myself
The only thing that seems obvious is that the DUP are even more *ing dense and don’t seem to have yet realised is that they’ve just been sold down the river
I bet they’re all glad they voted for Brexit, then supported Boris
Turkeys... Christmas...
Actually, if they stick to what’s proposed right now, there will be a Northern Ireland, and they’ll be no real need for NI to change its status, you can be Irish or British in the counties, and deal with the rest of Ireland and the EU in much the same way as you can now, with only limited restrictions on how you deal with the rUK (especially compared with all other European countries). NI could be the only bit of Britain that can continue to fully benefit from the EU+EEA&UK markets. I’m sure at some point soon reality will confound my optimism, but NI currently looks to have real damage limitation measures being but in place for them. Now… the rest of us…?
its only a sticking plaster for NI. Its going to have all sorts of repercussions and difficulties and trade across the irish sea will still be harder than trade across the border. United ireland is a certainty IMO
I think Scotland will be offski soon too
I actually think indepoendence for scotland has retreated because Idiots in the SNP seem intent on splitting the party
Brexit in two paragraphs.
"There is one Brexit deal. There has only ever been one. It has been there from the start, although hard to see through the fog. Its outline has been discernible behind plumes of rhetoric and misinformation billowing out from the Westminster political machine. It was there on the horizon the morning after the referendum. It has not moved during the thousands of hours of debate that followed.
The deal was already contained in article 50. It was in every bill in every late-night Commons vote. It was in Theresa May’s backstop and Boris Johnson’s alternative. It is the hard kernel of a soft Brexit and the soft underbelly of a hard one. It is the capital of Norwegian, Canadian and Australian-style Brexits. It is this: the UK will give up wealth in exchange for sovereignty."
If you voted for Brexit you voted to be poorer, for folk to lose their jobs and for the diminished status of the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/08/exit-brexit-deal-wealth-sovereignty-timescale
The deal in one line:
We don't want a deal, this is all a sham to cover up that fact.
Will the French be cheering Ineos in the TdF this year while we boo them in the TdY (assuming those races happen)
the way to the sunlit uplands is via shit creek
See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/08/codpieces-zeppelins-best-brexit
The pants are at ankle height and the government is begging us to be raped.
Gove lying again on R4 Today, making out that health insurance card will remain valid. Useless BBC not calling him out, as per usual.
He said "for a period" ... which means for 23 more days ... that he wasn't pressed on it boiled my piss ... and that wasn't even the low point of that "interview" ... I'm done with The Today Programme ... it's a joke now.
EDIT: Johnson vs Blackford at PMQs just now short and sharp, and sums up the current Brexit related trade off pretty damn well. The laughing PM saying that Scotland should be happy with its fish and ignore all that it's losing that NI is not.
Gove has previous on lying over points like this. He claimed that a Briish person's holiday home is protected "by the Treaty of Vienna", whereas the reality is that post-Brexit it will be potentially liable to punitive taxation.
The way BoJo is spouting off today, it looks like this trip is a total waste of time. No deal 100%
I was thinking the complete opposite.
The point where any one group of people are cheering his every word is normally the cue for the epic Boris betrayal where he sells them down the river.
Remember that this time last year he was being virtually carried aloft through the DUP conference as he triumphantly proclaimed that 'no British prime minister could ever sign up to a border in the Irish sea'
What did he do about 2 days later?
He then had the bare-faced effrontery to proclaim this betrayal as a huge triumph and maintained this right up until the point where it became politically expedient to renounce it again and drop it like a hot turd.
How anyone has got a shred of trust in the oily little shyster is beyond me. It was the ERG lot who got him elected and into number ten, but if they think for a second he won't throw them under the bus as readily as he did the DUP then they're delusional.
Only one thing matters to Boris and that's Boris, and he's such a coward that he will take the easy option every single time
Indeed. Ignore every word Johnson utters. Wait and read what is proposed once/if it is written down. Everything else is political flatulence.
[Gove] said “for a period” … which means for 23 more days … that he wasn’t pressed on it boiled my piss … and that wasn’t even the low point of that “interview” … I’m done with The Today Programme … it’s a joke now.
Now he's saying that students already on Erasmus programmes can finish them and Britons resident in the EU will continue to get medical care. So - nothing at all comparable to what he was insinuating on the BrexitBC this morning.
Same goes for him. Everything he utters is political flatulence. If it's not written down... it's not happening.
Only one thing matters to Boris and that’s Boris, and he’s such a coward that he will take the easy option every single time
@binners - I hope so, however, I worry that BoJo cares more about being held accountable by his mates in the Houses of Parliment than the actual country.
The insanity of this whole situation is really brought home to you when you consider the reality of what Covid has done to the economy before you even factor in the lunacy of Brexit
https://twitter.com/SepsisUK/status/1336569232344166402?s=20
That we're in a situation where, at the 59th minute of the 11th hour, its no deal or something only slightly better just highlights the criminal self-serving self-indulgence of these headbangers
Hearing johnson intone 'With or without a deal the UK will prosper mightily' I feel...reassured; then I wake up.
Said it before... but this ideological excercise needs to run its course in all its glory, and before anyone jumps in and cries "what about the innocent who will suffer" its too late that ship has sailed- all that is left is to rip the sticky plaster off as fast as possible.
The longer this lingers the longer the shite cheerleading will hang on. This shit show compounded by Covid has to be owned by the Tories.
Hearing johnson intone ‘With or without a deal the UK will prosper mightily’ I feel…reassured; then I wake up.
To be fair, he knows a fair bit about divorce / separation "deals" and the outcome has always been that he has prospered mightily as he's left child number [s]4[/s], [s]5[/s], 6 with partner number [s]3[/s], [s]4[/s], oh who's counting so I'm guessing that's what he's basing this on.
We will, the UK as a whole that is, “prosper mightily”. But not as we would have inside the SM&CU … and the damage won’t be evenly spread. We could make 5% of our workers unemployed, and we, as a country, would still “prosper”, but more people would have a shitty life. The kind of life that Johnson has never been in danger of observing, never mind living.
We could make 5% of our workers unemployed, and we, as a country, would still “prosper”, but more people would have a shitty life
Very much this. The company I work for nr Mansfield very much in favour of brexit for some reasons that I understand (harms our competitors) but in the whole scheme of things will prob just leave us less worse off than them 😒
kelvin, can you give me any examples of how the UK will 'prosper mightily'?
You may be right but I can't see it.
A small number of people will definitely prosper - as they would irrespective of circumstances - but, in my view, the majority won't; they will be negatively impacted.
I agree that the lives of the majority of people will be negatively impacted. As will the economy as a whole. The UK will still be one of the top ten economies in the world, despite the damage though. Hard to argue that isn’t “prospering mightily”.
johnson's rhetoric is clearly intended to convey the impression that brexit will be good for the UK; it won't be so I don't agree that that the UK will '...prosper mightily'.
More people will be in poverty, levels of deprivation will increase as will homelessness.
The UK has failed to develop an industrial strategy, let alone provide development resources and funding.
Brexit will diminish the UK further and will do nothing to enhance/rebuild our international standing
As for the UK's economic ranking, the link below to Investopedia shows the top 20 economies ranked by nominal GDP with PPP GDP (purchasing power parity) also shown for reference.
In 2019 UK was 6th by nominal GDP, 9th by PPP GDP and 23rd by per capita GDP.
Using nominal, the countries above the UK will pull away and France in 7th will overtake within 2 years; it's also very likely that we will slide further down the per capita ranking.
https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/
The kind of life that Johnson has never been in danger of observing, never mind living.
I'm no fan but that's completely untrue.
He's well known to have observed the life of homeless people illuminated by the light of a burning £50 note.
Dont worry Rishi is already cogertating the suggestion of a wealth tax spread over 5 years... think poll tax on your very existence - house, business, pension funds and any other fiscal assets you may hold..
Not so much "eat the rich" more tax the moderatley well off who cant hide behind offshore accounts, trust funds, shell schemes and complex share management. It will be popular in the red wall voting circles. A revenue generating dead cat..
From what i see they will come after me for about £8k and i am by no definition rich.
We will, the UK as a whole that is, “prosper mightily”.
Certain elements of the UK will prosper mightily. Unfortunately, they're the elements that no-one really wants.
its going to kick off big style in the UK.
we might manage to see it through 2021 but 22/23 we the chickens will well and truly be coming home to roost....and they'll be wearing face masks and throwing petrol bombs.
@frank you are talking about relative prosperity whereaes @kelvin is talking about absolute prosperity. You are both right.
am I understand this wrong but...."that he could not accept terms in a treaty that would tie Britain to EU rules."
are these rules the conditions to trade with the EU, and only the EU and wouldn't be the same rules to trade with other country's/trade blocks (if and when those trade deals are worked out? if that's the case why isn't that mentioned more in the press?
No other country trades so much with the EU. Canada has a limited tariff free trade deal with the EU but their trade with the EU is a tiny % of the UKs.
I agree that the lives of the majority of people will be negatively impacted. As will the economy as a whole. The UK will still be one of the top ten economies in the world, despite the damage though. Hard to argue that isn’t “prospering mightily”.
I refer to the example of Argentina, formerly the worlds richest country. There are no guarantees the UK will prosper at any level. Populism has a habit of destroying countries.
are these rules the conditions to trade with the EU, and only the EU and wouldn’t be the same rules to trade with other country’s/trade blocks (if and when those trade deals are worked out? if that’s the case why isn’t that mentioned more in the press?
very simple terms, look on your electrical goods, see that little CE mark? if you want to sell into the EU you follow the rules. There are many more complications, but very simply that is how it works. If you want to sell to the US then you need to follow their rules. Issue becomes a problem when you want to sell to both and the rules don't align.
Buy GMO from the US, now prove to the EU your products aren't contaminated. If you can't, then you no longer have a business.
obviously tired drivers are safer. So what's next on the bonfire of redtape?
I refer to the example of Argentina, formerly the worlds richest country.
A fair point.
Canada has a limited tariff free trade deal with the EU but their trade with the EU is a tiny % of the UKs.
Seem, this is what Gove should be challenged with when he claims that “all we are after is the same terms as Canada”… we are not… it is a lie… but he’s been repeating it for years now, unchallenged by the ex-journalists that are now just TV presenters.
Johnson and Gove are ****ing lying ****s.
^+1
Populism has a habit of destroying countries.
nationalists always end up destroying the countries they cynically claim to love, and either killing or impoverishing the populations they venerate
Johnson and Gove are * lying *.
they’ve done nothing but lie, lie and lie some more for 5 years straight now.
It comes so naturally to the pair of shysters now, if it exists in their heads then as far as theyre concerned its fair game. They don’t even know what the concept of the truth is any more, it’s so long since they had any contact with it
Competely agree Binners I am sure he goes into meetings etc and thinks what do these people want to hear/ will get me the desired result as opposed to telling the truth. The worrying thing is people still give him the time of day SNP guy nailed it today when he said to Bozo he had done more for Scottish independence than the SNP could manage (most Scots don't need convincing he is a lying ----)
Bodied, as the kids say.
I guess this trade deal thing isn't that easy after all.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1336801801509740546
Why would we expect reciprocation from the big players? We’ll need to drop our barriers just to keep our current trade with them, they won’t be looking to do us any favours in the near future. Of course, many of those who pushed Brexit hardest did so knowing this… they want to use their transatlantic connections to make a killing out of an exposed Britain at our expense. They are not acting for Britain, they never were. The British public have been fooled*.
[ intelligent people can be fooled, don’t misinterpret what I have said ]
In before another extension (or a 3 word letter slogan representing an extension). Bojo and Von Meyer sitting down for dinner and achieving anything useful would be perfect for a SNL sketch.
torso - that is just one in what will be a long series of slapdowns for the political amateurs who think they're running the UK.
The EU trading block can fight it's own corner; even if the UK govt were serious, professional, credible and competent we would have no chance.
Unfortunately the UK govt are none of those.
Today we have had govey pontificating on tariffs and lying about EHIC; add to that truss dismally failing to deliver any trade agreements of significance.
Compare & contrast johnson with Von Der Leyen; he falls far short of her in terms of political experience, performance, depth and breadth of attainment, education, attitude, seriousness.
I really wonder about how serious politicians such as Merkel and Von Der Leyen describe johnson in private.
It wouldn't be surprising, to me, if Biden's administration didn't begin to make public some of their misgivings/concerns about johnson and his clown circus in the near future.
The horse-faced, six-toed pony-****ing Brexiteer from the Spectator was looking very pleased with herself on Newsnight as Boris eked it out a bit longer before he capitulates.
The EU doesn’t look too arsed. They know what’s coming. Looks like the thick-as-mince Brexiteers of the Tory party are still convinced that Boris won’t sell them down the river when it suits him to do so
Today we have had govey pontificating on tariffs and lying about EHIC; add to that truss dismally failing to deliver any trade
as travel to the EU is banned in a few days anyway... question is for how long. If plague island island fails to get a grip you could be seeing no travel to the continent for a while.
I really wonder about how serious politicians such as Merkel and Von Der Leyen describe johnson in private.
Probably something of a hint here ...
Can I try and sum up what “we” are currently saying that we want, and our ministers are claiming it would be “undemocratic” for the EU to refuse…?
Future standards… if we choose to march in step with the EU on a future standard, but then we later change our mind, and lower the standard, then we want the EU to be unable to act against us. We want continued access to their market, in law rather than at the discretion of the EU, even in the circumstances where we have agreed and implemented a new higher standard… but then dumped it, to undermine it, and undercut them.
The government are either stupid and arrogant or want no deal, or possibly both. Huge swathes of the population seem genuinely surprised that the EU aren't on our side in the negotiations with, checks notes, the EU.
I had friends tell me years ago that negotiations will go to the wire and the EU will blink first because they need us more, etc etc.
Still waiting! 🙂
I mean, you can't look at our dignified, organised negotiating team vs their shambolic counterparts and fail to be impressed.
Future standards… if we choose to march in step with the EU on a future standard, but then we later change our mind, and lower the standard, then we want the EU to be unable to act against us. We want continued access to their market, in law rather than at the discretion of the EU, even in the circumstances where we have agreed and implemented a new higher standard… but then dumped it, to undermine it, and undercut them.
We've no recent history of signing up to agreements and then almost immediately backtracking and ripping them up, have we? Perhaps the EU should just take a leaf out of our book, enshrine our market access in law, then just renege on that as soon as it becomes inconvenient. Their pesky code of ethics and sticking to their word is just so old-fashioned.
They are talking to people on Five Live this morning who will actually be impacted in the real world in the event of no deal.
A guy who runs a haulage firm said all UK hauliers who presently operate across the EU have had to apply for permits to continue to do so. The EU are however only issuing enough permits for 1 in 4 of them. This means, fairly obviously, that 75% of those hauliers will go bust pretty shortly after January 1st in the event of No Deal.
I'd imagine there are loads of industries that we don't know about yet who will be impacted in similar ways
Hurrah for 'Taking Back Control'
Really good discussion on 5 live this morning, usual pompous brexiteers completely out of their depth when asked the simplest of questions.
This mornings stark fact is that of the 8000+ haulage firms in the UK who cross the channel on a daily basis, less than a quarter of them will have a permit to do so come January.
Taking back control in action.
Lol, beaten to it by Binners!
Binners, did you hear that idiot farm shop owner who was going on about red tape and not being allowed to do allsorts by the EU? she was awesome!.
For those that didn't hear, the question was put to her - the one thing you're looking forward to doing post brexit that you can't do now....
She ended up laughing as she couldn't come up with a single thing. 10 minutes later she started talking about farmers being allowed to cut hedges and plough fields whenever they wanted, not when Brussels allowed them too.
Jesus wept.
There's also the issue that EU drivers won't want to come on jobs over here... they're paid by the mile, and sitting in delays means they're not being paid.
Does anyone know what happened the grown ups that THM used to bang on about? I'm expecting them any day now.
When all those UK hauliers go tits up, there won't be any delays Kelvin, the only hauliers on the road will be from the EU.
Think they've managed to get EU passport and have quietly left while BoJo was swinging dead cats about and singing the national anthem.
There's another genius on now saying that we don't need to import anything from the EU anyway. We can just make everything here instead.
I mean... where do you even start with these people?
So, a serious question here.
If UK companies like hauliers go bust, who are operating on the continent, then hauliers there are likely to need to expand significantly - but they could struggle to find people. So if the countries are able to offer work permits of some flavour to cover that gap, it is possible that they would offer them to Brits who are now out of work, and we could become the itinerant worker supplier after all.
However they may well not need to since they have the entire EU27 to pull from.
Yeah, that's not gonna happen.
There is already a shortage of drivers in all the northern EU countries... which is why drivers willing to sit in queues for free in order to deliver to the UK will be far and few between... they can just go and work for a haulier avoiding the UK in 2021.
There is a way around it... pay more for drivers... but like all the possible mitigations to this mess... it'll put up the cost/price to UK companies and consumers. Go and talk to a courier... ask them for a guaranteed price for Jan or Feb... you'll hear the laughing between the lines in the reply.
I work for a large UK industrial manufacturing company and we have just had an email from our MD stating all of the measures they have taken to prepare for Jan 1st. A huge list of items including compliance, incoming parts supply, outgoing finished product supply, ensuring employees comply with working regulations etc etc.
It then goes on to state that UK - EU trade will incur tariffs some of which can be offset by some imports, but overall there will be a significant increase in tariffs which the company will absorb for the first part of 2021 before deciding what to do. That doesn't fill me with hope.
When I mentioned this to a Brexit voting colleague he said 'at least we won't have a German Luger pointing to our heads'. I said no, we have just taken it and shot ourselves in the head.
I just don't get their attitude. We might have lowered our living standards and irrecoverably damaged our country but at least we're no longer in a mutually beneficial organisation with Johnny foreigner anymore. Ffs
Back to the negotiators till Sunday according to Eins Extra. Then a decision.
Edit: and perhaps more important the EU is setting out guidance for no deal.
I'm glad we're getting rid of all this bureaucracy by abandoning the Single Market and Customs Union.
Aye, we'll have freedom of movement and trade with, er, Anglesey.
Today's Brexit dimwit, Penny Mordaunt is presently on her feet in parliament and you can tell by the tone of her voice that she's not even convinced by the absolute shite she's presently blathering about an 'Australian Style' outcome being just brilliant.
She has also implied, once again, that somehow the remainers are to blame for this by not being supportive enough. A narrative they've been trying to spin for a couple of weeks now.
What an utter and complete ****ing shambles!
I must say it is disappointing to watch the country that you live in fail before your very eyes.
Got to hand it to the Conservatives though, not only can they get people to vote to make themselves poorer, they also get them to cheer while they do it.
We might have lowered our living standards and irrecoverably damaged our country but at least we’re no longer in a mutually beneficial organisation with Johnny foreigner anymore. Ffs
The only way this will hit home to people is when they realise that the mutually beneficial stuff extends beyond trade.
When they're standing in a 3hr queue at the airport because they can't use the EU biometric passport gates, when they get the phone bill of several hundred pounds of roaming charges cos it's no longer under the EU mobile roaming cap, when the £ is so shafted against the Euro that holidays abroad cost twice what they did before the referendum.
Even then though, I think most people will just blame the EU, that narrative has been well and truly sown now.
She has also implied, once again, that somehow the remainers are to blame for this by not being supportive enough. A narrative they’ve been trying to spin for a couple of weeks now.
Usual Governement tactic, they've been doing the same with Covid-19, blame the people not us.
This has been it for a while hasn't it? Even though current opinion polls suggest if the ref was re-run today Remain would win.
