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No surprise but, yet again, johnson and his acolytes attempt to shift blame and responsibility onto the EU.
The chief clown is now facing another problem of his own making, desperately trying to shift blame onto someone else - anyone; doesn't matter who it is.
Has he never heard of the Peter Principle?
He is the living embodiment - promoted beyond the level of his own abilities.
Anyone with anything between their ears always knew that it would end up as the EU saying “there you go.... take it or ****in’ leave it”
Can I just point out, for the sake of fairness that AFAIK THM was banned for his Brexit leaning transgressions. If this is not the case any mod may correct me.
As much as I disagreed with him he at least tried to engage with the lynch mobs and had a sadly mistaken belief that this would work out. In fact Im pretty sure he wes a remainer.
Jamba on the other hand was just an idiot.
Anyone with anything between their ears always knew that it would end up as the EU saying “there you go…. take it or ****in’ leave it”
Given 'our' GINO and the people and inner motives it weaponised for it's own success, this was always nailed on.
Jingoistic, fantasy peddling liars in confrontation with reality shocker...
He said that Brexit was fundamentally a battle within the UK for it to either remain a Welfare State or become a free-market economy.
Yep, and on my FB feed I pointed this out before the 2016 Ref after one of my friends said "Brexit, seriously mate, what's the worse that could happen".
My answer was to go to some other countries and see how ordinary folk live. The battle between affording to eat, keep a roof over their heads, educate their kids AND afford healthcare. I've worked all across the world and compared to +90% of the worlds' population, average folk here have a decent life - they just don't know it.
For example, even in the US many folk are only a couple of paychecks away from poverty. One episode of my past always reminds me of how 'precarious' our lives can be. Previously I had to lay off half a team in the States, one guy was in total despair because his daughter depending on expensive medication that he could only afford due to the company health insurance. A new company would not take on this cost. Suicide looked like a way out, because he'd still work for us when he died so she'd be cared for (for life)...
As I said a page back or so, “Brexit isn’t the destination, it’s the vehicle”.
So if you voted Leave or worse, voted Tory in 2019 - you're responsible for this - what was it Tusk said about "a special place in hell"?
Yes, I'm angry.
I don't think THM or Jamba were banned - just left when their positions became untenable
Ooh a Brexit positive benefit, you’ll be able to get Cashback without buying anything 🙂
Yep, and on my FB feed I pointed this out before the 2016 Ref after one of my friends said “Brexit, seriously mate, what’s the worse that could happen”.
My answer was to go to some other countries and see how ordinary folk live. The battle between affording to eat, keep a roof over their heads, educate their kids AND afford healthcare. I’ve worked all across the world and compared to +90% of the worlds’ population, average folk here have a decent life – they just don’t know it.
For example, even in the US many folk are only a couple of paychecks away from poverty. One episode of my past always reminds me of how ‘precarious’ our lives can be. Previously I had to lay off half a team in the States, one guy was in total despair because his daughter depending on expensive medication that he could only afford due to the company health insurance. A new company would not take on this cost. Suicide looked like a way out, because he’d still work for us when he died so she’d be cared for (for life)…
As I said a page back or so, “Brexit isn’t the destination, it’s the vehicle”.
So if you voted Leave or worse, voted Tory in 2019 – you’re responsible for this – what was it Tusk said about “a special place in hell”?
Yes, I’m angry.
Great post and nails a lot of stuff.
In a global sense, we are amazingly wealthy. But enough nasty inner prejudices were still there to be exploited by cynical shits.
Drip-drip.
"You could have more"
"The immigrants/benefit cheats are taking your rightful wealth away"
"Labour want to take your 3 bed semi and give it to an asylum seeker"
Eventually you end up with a truly lucky society convinced it is a victim.
And in the final irony, the people behind the drip-drip actually will line their own pockets at the expense of everyone else.
This is why I can't even think about Brexit without laughing inside - bitterly - as yet another politician is made to look stupid defending the patently stupid.
^ paywall, but you can get round it by turning off javascript.
Anyway, now that his fox news / trump fluffer career is on the way out Farrdige is now hawking crypto!
"I won’t be giving advice and I am not regulated to do so. What I am trying to do is encourage people to make their own financial decisions.
I have lightened my investments in the stock market quite considerably over the course of the past few weeks. I am now looking at other areas, including alternative investments. I’m interested in gold and increasingly even in cryptocurrencies. I am cautious of the stock market. At some point the real effects of the crisis will hit."
Eventually you end up with a truly lucky society convinced it is a victim.
I love the way this forum throws up brilliantly accurate quotes like this that sum up complex issues so neatly.
At some point the real effects of the crisis will hit.
As will the 'other crisis', you know, the one you manufactured and took a bet against the effects.
Bastard.
Great post and nails a lot of stuff.
Indeed.
I remember reading an analysis of the males that display horrible toxic masculinity, your Boris's, Trumps', and Farage's. It came to what I thought was a pretty accurate conclusion
They were born into incredible privilege but in their eyes, it wasn't quite privileged enough.
To me, that would sum up a lot of the people who supported Brexit
Anyway... it looks like today is crunch day. I hope that everyone who voted to 'Take Back Control' is seeing the irony of the fact that whether we leave with some form of cobbled-together arrangement or the disaster of No Deal will be down to the whim of what Dominic Cummings decides today
They were born into incredible privilege but in their eyes, it wasn’t quite privileged enough.
That unfortunately applies to Blair as well
For example, even in the US many folk are only a couple of paychecks away from poverty.
It's no better over here, and about to get a whole lot worse!
It’s no better over here, and about to get a whole lot worse!
At least we don't get refused entry to a hospital with the words "if you can't pay **** off and die quietly, there's a good chap".
Not yet anyway.
Off-topic but:
People don't get turned away, usually, if it's an emergency. They get treatment, then they owe millions of dollars for the rest of their lives, if they make it. Medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcies.
What's possibly even worse than uninsured people is that most people's insurance is limited cover, so it will only pay out the first say, $60k. After that, you're on your own. And even worse than that is the fact that insurance companies try and wriggle out of their obligations at every turn if you have to make a claim. And since you are their insured property they place stipulations on things you must do to keep cover valid.
Can I just point out, for the sake of fairness that AFAIK THM was banned for his Brexit leaning transgressions.
No, it was because of the way he was arguing and not listening to mod warnings, AFAIK.
No, it was because of the way he was arguing and not listening to mod warnings, AFAIK.
To be honest, I'm still just waiting for the much-vaunted grownups to turn up to negotiations. By THM's timetable they are about three years and three months overdue....
We're not Canada, and we're not Australia... so we can all ignore Johnson's proclamation today, and prepare for the No Deal Brexit he pretended not to be delivering when he won the election with his "Oven Ready Deal" slight of hand.
WTF is an Australia deal???
WTF is an Australia deal???
Its what Dom has rebranded a No Deal crashout
They're actually going to *ing do it!
With the country's economy on its knees with the devastation of covid, they're going to chuck no deal in just to put it out of its misery
*ing beam me up! This country has officially lost its ****ing mind!!
WTF is an Australia deal???
we can buy tesco own brand biscuits in the reject shop.
He did actually say " Australia style outcome" this time - as Aus do not have a deal as such
It was always going to be the outcome. I believe deliberately but conspiracy or cockup your choice, but when you (UK )make demands that are clearly impossible and yo have been told many times over years they are impossible and refuse to budge from that then at some point reality hits and no deal is possible
I believe that Frost and co have deliberately sabotaged things any time there is prospect of a deal because they do not want one but do not want the blame either
the internal market bill was a deliberate piece of sabotage
Goodbye UK.
Goodbye UK.
Yep. Boris will resign / stand down / deliberately "lose" a vote of no confidence and waltz off with Dom into the sunset, their pockets bulging. Wouldn't be surprised to see a whole load of other hard-right ERG headbangers do the same having transferred all their assets elsewhere and bought themselves a citizenship in Monaco or some other cozy tax haven. That'll leave a near-enough dismantled Tory party sitting there squabbling like rats in a sack over who's fault it was for 3 or 4 more years while the country burns and while the Daily Wail desperately tries to blame the EU and simultaneously reassure us that we're doing brilliantly.
I'd love to be able to turn to all the Leave voters and have some smug schadenfreude except that I have no savings, no assets and no way out either so I'm stuck in the sinking ship with them. Scumbags.
"Goodbye UK" was that in a few years there will no longer be a UK. Ireland will be reunited and Scotland will be independent. Wales I am not so sure.
I can even foresee a "celtic alliance" like the old Nordic one where Scotland / ireland and Wales make a loose union inside or on the edge of the EU leaving England totally isolated
WTF is an Australia deal???
If we called it a Papua New Guinea
Style Deal or perhaps an Uzbekistan style deal that would mean the same, no deal with the EU, a “daily of statecraft” the crash pit which “no one is suggesting”. An 8% annual hist to the economy before any Covid-19 effects.
This is no doubt bang on. The UK is finished. Scottish independence and a united Ireland are surely just a formality now. In the north of England, the last few days have given us an insight into how ****ed that leaves us
https://twitter.com/Macnessie/status/1317061884948992000?s=20
Yep all ****ed now.
there is an element of stupidity from the French over this too though. But the blame firmly lies with the Westminster tories.
Good luck to Scotland and NI for the future and i wish you well. The rest of us are shafted.
looks like my thought of a company transfer to Sweden might be a good option in the future.
binners
Full Member
This is no doubt bang on. The UK is finished. Scottish independence and a united Ireland are surely just a formality now. In the north of England, the last few days have given us an insight into how ****ed that leaves us
And what a pathetic little country we will be
He really is a lying **** isn't he.
He looks... Not quite "pleased with himself", but strangely satisfied in that speech...
I wouldn't be quite so confident. This could well be posturing - a game of brinksmanship or chicken if you like. Or in this case - holding your breath until you get what you want
And we know he is weaselly enough to cave completely then tell us all it is a marvellous outcome and just what we want.
Not over yet - next week however....
He looks… Not quite “pleased with himself”, but strangely satisfied in that speech…
It's the luxury enjoyed by those who's actions have no personal consequences
So yeh... everyone who voted for this ****s "oven ready brexit deal" how you feeling now? Perhaps like everyone else the Tories lied to us yet again. We get what we deserve never have a group of people acted with such a high level of privilege and contempt of their counterparts.... but, what else do you expect from a bunch of upper class private school white males.
I heard on a US podcast that if you were hospitalised over there for Covid for say 3 days, you'd be getting a bill for 6-7 thousand dollars, probably extra for treatment, and that's WITH medical insurance (ie extra to what the insurance company pays on your behalf).
It's obvious that this is what the Brexiters want as they and their friends can make oodles of cash out of it. What's the point of the NHS if it's not for profit?
Anyone ever seen some of the really properly rough bits of America with third world style poverty? Coming soon here....
I heard on a US podcast that if you were hospitalised over there for Covid for say 3 days, you’d be getting a bill for 6-7 thousand dollars, probably extra for treatment, and that’s WITH medical insurance (ie extra to what the insurance company pays on your behalf).
Number 1 cause of bankruptcies in the US and a fairly major cause of suicide as well.
Saved by medical treatment, bankrupted by medical treatment, shoot yourself because of the medical treatment.
May as well just take out the medical treatment bit in the middle except then no-one would be getting rich off the costs of it.
I think every patient on the NHS should get a bill at the end of their treatment outlining the full costs - every drug, every hour of doctor/surgeon/nurse time, every day you took up a bed, every X-ray. At the end it would then say - paid by the state and the taxpayer.
Pay your tax. Don't vote Tory.
Anyone ever seen some of the really properly rough bits of America with third world style poverty? Coming soon here….
I will sit here for a while longer, job, house etc, but if this carries on the way it's going I will be making use of the Irish passport and getting off this rock.
Anyone ever seen some of the really properly rough bits of America with third world style poverty? Coming soon here….
Yep and the sad thing is the majority of people that voted Tory wont have the advantage of private health care when it all goes wrong. Like a turkey voting for xmas is the phrase I would use. Its absolute joke how Boris can tell the whole country his deals "oven ready" and for us to now be in a position of a no deal Brexit is nothing short of negligence. If you voted Tory you must hang your head in shame, and realise this is all your fault!
I’ve got private health care through work, unfortunately my family doesn’t. If I’ll still have a job after the shit really hits the fan is another matter altogether...
If you voted Tory you must hang your head in shame, and realise this is all your fault!
I'm inclined to agree with this myself, but knowing some Tory/brexit voters, there is a degree of just trusting politicians to do the right thing and to know what they are doing, which to a degree is right and proper, and you could argue that it is only reasonable to assume that the newspapers are telling the truth and that the government is acting in our interests, and if this is not the case then it is only our government at fault. Am not sure you can blame voters for simply taking politicians at face value, however naive that might sound in this day and age...
So where's the Oven Ready Deal? The easiest deal in history? They need us more than we need them? Oh yes, none exist. What a complete and utter joke. I want to type more but I'd A get banned and B break the swear filter.
He looks… Not quite “pleased with himself”, but strangely satisfied in that speech…
He looks like a smug, odious **** to me who I will quite happily punch in the face until it caves in under the constant pounding I'll give it.
WTF is an Australia deal???
Nothing. Australia don't need a good relationship with the EU as they have the whole of Asia on their doorstep. We don't.
So, game over then. Bring forth the omnishambles.
I for one look forward to the breakup of the union but only because I am being selfish and hope my recent ancestry qualifies for Scottish citizenry.
an Australia deal that is good that Australia want to change it
https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/australia/index_en.htm
I’m inclined to agree with this myself, but knowing some Tory/brexit voters, there is a degree of just trusting politicians to do the right thing and to know what they are doing
I had a chat with a Brexit Johnson loving colleague earlier and his response was 'at least we have a strong leader not like cornflake or trout face'.
No idea who trout face' is but that is what you are up against.
And he loves blaming the EU for negotiations going nowhere.
I bet it'll be the bloody traitorous Leave voters who will be down the supermarkets stockpiling for the inevitable lack of supply of European foods come January! Boris's 'oven-ready' deal was as oven ready as all those turkeys from Tesco last Christmas that were found rotting when people peeled the wrapper. He and his band of intellectual lightweight cabinet members should be tried for treason.
Anyone ever seen some of the really properly rough bits of America with third world style poverty?
Yup, I helped set up a JV in a fairly rural part of Kentucky about 20 years ago and got the chance to go to some fairly rural parts of the state, plus Ohio, Tennessee and Georgia visiting mom and pop type family businesses, Bo and Luke Duke complete with dungarees (sadly no Daisy). I also went to Johnson City, NJ just across the river from Philly visiting a company in a predominantly black neighbourhood - pretty stark reminder of a divided country.
He and his band of intellectual lightweight cabinet members should be tried for treason.
I've often said that Cameron should be tried for treason. He's the fool that started all of this.
Yep and the sad thing is the majority of people that voted Tory wont have the advantage of private health care when it all goes wrong
Whats sad about that? They made their choice they get to reap the rewards. My sympathy is for those who didnt make that choice.
Anyone ever seen some of the really properly rough bits of America with third world style poverty?
I always found LA quite strange, obviously they thought the same about me (being a brit I was the only person walking for 30 miles). Staying on Lincoln all very nice an prosperous 2 blocks over and it's steel shutters, steel grills armed guards and wind up yer windows.
Win-win, nothing like us “pessimists” warned about, back in 2016…
https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1272187896909479936?s=21
BAIT
AND
SWITCH
Anyone ever seen some of the really properly rough bits of America with third world style poverty?
did camp america thing working with kids on welfare
Ive also worked with youths in some rough parts of north london
what I saw in America has never left me and made me realise even the poorest here have some basic rights and access to healthcare that the richest country in the world doesnt offer to their poorest
anyway
back OT
Johnson will fold at the last minute, this is just bluff & bluster as usual
It strikes me that this shower of shit looked back and saw a time when Britain was great and that greatness, that wealth was built on Empire, and they looked around and saw that there was no where left to invade and to conquer and then along came a man with real vision and said to them you don't need to exploit anyone but the people who surround you, your own country is full of people ready to be worked to death and used in any way you want. These people don't really matter, any number of them can be used up, ground down and exploited and you need not lose a minutes sleep over it. And what's more they'll be convinced all their misery is nothing to do with you anyway
https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/1316887009198141441
Gets better, so if there is anything you want to import, the seller is going to get hit. Those days of cheap Schwalbe tyres etc from Germany. Over. The days of UK distributers being able to ramp prices because there is no competition! FFS
how Boris can tell the whole country his deals “oven ready”
Happy to be proved wrong but iirc the “oven ready deal” was the withdrawal agreement which has now been in operation for a while. Which is not to say that it isn’t a total shitshow.
Happy to be proved wrong but iirc the “oven ready deal” was the withdrawal agreement which has now been in operation for a while. Which is not to say that it isn’t a total shitshow.
which also included the NI protocol that they want to ditch.
Looking at some of the Brexit supporters’ comments around social media it feels as though if they got their wish and all the Remain supporters did actually leave, there would be a sort of reverse of Douglas Adams’ ‘B’ Ark scenario. Instead of losing all the telephone sanitisers account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards and public relations executives, instead Britain’s would shed most of its health workers, engineers, software designers, and people who actually know how to make a complex society run smoothly(ish) would be gone, and you’d be left with hedge fund managers, landed gentry, newspaper columnists and management consultants at one end of society, trying to deal with brickies, plasterers, plumbers and pensioners to keep the country functioning.
Happy to be proved wrong but iirc the “oven ready deal” was the withdrawal agreement which has now been in operation for a while.
We know that. The conflation of the Withdrawal Arrangement with a Trade deal was deliberate though. GET BREXIT DONE. The WA will be ripped up next year if we don’t get a Trade Deal… the government have made that clear (only after being elected).
Dead Cats all round...
Britain’s would shed most of its health workers, engineers, software designers, and people who actually know how to make a complex society run smoothly(ish) would be gone
You forgot all the artists, musicians, dancers, architects, graphic designers, sound engineers etc who make that society have nice things in it.
The WA wasnt the oven ready deal . The oven deal was a trade deal .
You forgot all the artists, musicians, dancers, architects, graphic designers, sound engineers etc who make that society have nice things in it.
That’s the b-ark.
Is a Turkey that voted for Christmas ready for the oven?
I feel like this Christmas is one where they smoke alarm goes off - a lot.
That’s the b-ark.
I'll go on the b-ark then please
from the bbc comments 🙂
The government have now started construction of their new theme park in Kent to promote their new gaming idea. The idea of the game is you hide your lorry among 7000 other lorries for 3 days and then see if you can find it again.
The game is called:
TRUCK AND TRACE.
PS. Don't forget to bring your Kent passport or you won't be allowed to play.
You forgot all the artists, musicians, dancers, architects, graphic designers, sound engineers etc who make that society have nice things in it.
Good point, and educators, researchers, academics, lawyers and do-gooders who give a society the ability to improve itself, the list goes on...
When DID ‘do-gooders’ become an insult and how?
Clearly the opposite of a do-gooder isn’t something a civilised person would want to be so how has it become such a charged word?
It's odd, isn't it. I've always been proud to be a do-gooder. It's a bit like how suddenly good manners became "political correctness" and could and should be laughed at, not being a dickhead makes you a "social justice warrior", and being anti-fascist became evil.
I have to admit, I'm comfortable I've taken the right positions on most things like this in my life, but, my god, the bad guys are better than us at the messaging.
When DID ‘do-gooders’ become an insult and how?
I can give you an exact date... June 24th 2016. The day the prevailing ‘winning’ feel in this country officially became a nasty, petty, small-minded, backward-gazing, racist, insular, hostile, xenophobic load of old sepia-tinted ‘2 world wars and a world cup’ neo-colonial old bollocks!
I’ve endured this shit for 4 years now and it’s presently coming to the conclusion we all said it would.
I fully expect it to get far, far worse. **** this shitty little country!
When DID ‘do-gooders’ become an insult and how?
It was an established insult back in 1980s. I heard it at times from both friends and strangers (for the specific joint crimes of picking up litter and being employed by a national nature conservation charity)
*edit. Here:
My Most Brexit/Tory Friend has such a disdain for ‘do-gooders’ because he ‘knows their motives are selfish/perverted’
On the odd occasion I have got into debate with trumpers, when they call me a liberal I explain that in europe that is a compliment. It drives them crackers
I for one look forward to the breakup of the union but only because I am being selfish and hope my recent ancestry qualifies for Scottish citizenry.
If you want to be Scottish, move here and commit - don't just try and take advantage once you've decided rUK isn't for you.
I'm waiting for my multi national employer to pull out of the UK as tariffs make us uncompetitive against our European competitors then I'm moving to Scotland......or France.
My odd Lexiteer mate is saying It was always going to be this way as the EU needed no deal so that the resulting economic misery is seen by the rest of the EU as a warning to other countries about leaving.
So this is all the EU’s fault. They were always going to ‘punish us’ with no deal.
I mean...what can you say to these people?
It's a bit like how virtue signalling has become the ultimate online insult. I see it sometimes but often it's just applied when people don't like that others have better morals than they do.
And 'arsehole signalling' is seemingly just fine, or to be lauded in fact.
I mean what can you say to these people?
Nothing. Prevailing narrative ‘wins’. Takes all. In a race to the bottom it just has to play out until that ‘bottom‘ is reached. I’m no longer an optimist.
My odd Lexiteer mate is saying It was always going to be this way as the EU needed no deal so that the resulting economic misery is seen by the rest of the EU as a warning to other countries about leaving.
So this is all the EU’s fault. They were always going to ‘punish us’ with no deal.
I mean…what can you say to these people?
Congratulate them on their foresight and remind them that based on this it means they actually voted to suffer (since apparently they knew the outcome).
And then remind them that based on this they also voted so the majority of UK citizens would be worse off and have less rights (especially those with a crap life, as it'll become shit).
Then walk away.
It's a fascinating negotiation tbh. Shame there's no crystal ball to see the options play out over a decade or more.
A no deal at this stage is probably best for the long term but can we commit to the short term pain.
Who's calling the outcome?
No deal will be hugely damaging long term for two main reasons
1 London will lose its financial services leading to a huge balance of payments problem
2 tariffs will increase food poverty and push inflation up
Lots of other bad effects as well
Nothing. Prevailing narrative ‘wins’. Takes all. In a race to the bottom it just has to play out until that ‘bottom‘ is reached. I’m no longer an optimist.
That is probably why I would seriously consider independence for Scotland in another vote, I feel that Westminster is absolutely toxic and the present administration are the most incompetent bunch of yes men I have ever seen and run by an absolute charlatan, and if we are to endure a decade of pain I would rather a bit more pain for at least a bit of light at the end of the tunnel hence the independence vote, also it has to be said that the lying machine within Westminster needn't bother pointing out do not vote to leave for this that and the other because quite frankly I only watch the clown to see how big his lies are (I am at a loss as to how anyone believes one word that comes out his mouth)