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And an independent Scotland or Wales could be as well.
They'd need a hard border though.
Has NI got a hard border? [ discuss ]
but there is no need for any independence arguments to be dominated by an in/out of EU discussion. If operating as if within the Single Market, yet still trading with rUK, is good enough for Northern Ireland…
It's possibly a huge issue and one that I hope is thoroughly interrogated should IndyRef2 become a thing- unlike the GB/NI border in the Brexit referendum.
N.I is only permitted to operate as it does in order to maintain the GFA - which was signed when, and only works when, both parties are part of the EU. It is by the EU's admission a unique situation.
If Wales and Scotland become independent and join the EU or EEA then there will be hard borders on their boundaries with England. I don't see how the EU could possibly protect their single market otherwise ?
Iceland may well be in the single market but it was never in a Customs Union with the EU and there is effectively a hard border as a result - customs paperwork etc.
Has NI got a hard border? [ discuss ]
Yes, Commercial Invoices are required when sending goods GB>NI with a value in excess of 135 pounds.
Oh, they’d be customs paperwork alright. Selling into Scotland or Wales would become as much of a pain for England based companies as selling into NI is now. But the NI situation has shown that operating in the Single Market doesn’t have to result in economic Armageddon for small countries with historic and geographic links to GB. Hell, that’s even more true for the country of Ireland.
But the NI situation has shown that operating in the Single Market doesn’t have to result in economic Armageddon for small countries with historic and geographic links to GB. Hell, that’s even more true for the country of Ireland.
The NI economy has been strongly affected. Armageddon ? No, but still significantly affected.
It's an easy win for the No campaign to argue that the cost of a hard border with the UK - bureaucracy, tariffs, logistical expenses, on a huge proportion of existing trade -is a crippling burden on a Nation attempting to finance Independence. They'd have a strong argument.
I have no skin in this game. I don't really like Nationalism of any flavour but if people want to determine their own futures then fair enough, good luck to them.
My only point is that the border issue needs to be looked at forensically and objectively in a way GB/NI/RoI never was during the Brexit Campaign.
The NI economy has been strongly affected.
er… ok
The NI economy has been strongly affected
Positively or negatively in your view? NI's unique position as both in and out of the EU is having some upside.
The NI economy has been strongly affected. Armageddon ? No, but still significantly affected.
As alluded to above, you might want to go check out NI's economic performance compared to the UK average at the moment.
Due to the protocol it's actually in the goldilocks zone for business/ trade currently.
Rather inconvenient for the DUP...
The reason that quite a few online businesses are moving to NI has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit and the NI Protocol….purely coincidental
Two weeks ago saw one of our remaining two Erasmus+ events happening. We took 9 early years educators out to Malta to work with Maltese, Spanish, Slovak and Belgian coleagues.
We've been doing this for years across a dozen Erasmus+ learning/sharing programmes for teachers and educators.
That was great.
Thing is, we watched a programme with dozens of training weeks all across Europe in the last fortnight. Thousands of early years eductors, from every country across Europe. Using the Standards and Handbook that we in the UK helped develop.
Not one UK educator will benefit, we can't take part.
Additionally, we've gone from €380k annually to a big fat €0 next year.
But once more, with feeling please, wave your blue passports at the sunshine bathing the uplands of the UK economy and cultural engagement.
🙁
Just look at map. The two main rail lines and the two biggest roads go to England, and there are reasons for this. The main north-south road is a winding country road, precisely because there’s hardly any traffic on it.
Having no knowledge what so ever, but whats to stop Wales to consider turning the traffic around to head for the coast to ports to ship goods to Ireland and into the EU, removing the need to go through England to access the EU?
Having no knowledge what so ever, but whats to stop Wales to consider turning the traffic around to head for the coast to ports to ship goods to Ireland and into the EU, removing the need to go through England to access the EU?
In theory yes, the roads and railways were made to link up with ports. In fact the road that is now the A55 in North Wales along with the railway line were developed to open up Holyhead as a port for shipping to Ireland. iW would clearly need a lot of trade with its nearest neighbour in any case.
But the point about the roads is that it highlights Wales's history as just another part of England that was developed and exploited for the benefit of the British economy and its rich industrialists. This is why it's different to other small countries in Europe and also different to Scotland.
Where do you think the motorways in Slovenia go to?
Stop the presses lads! The Haunted Victorian Pencil has finally come up with one of those pesky EU regulations we can do away with!
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1540247376866295809
Ooh and on the 6th anniversary of the vote 🙂
I finally learn another of the laws that they were so keen to repeal that made leaving the eu so important 🙂
I finally learn another of the laws that they were so keen to repeal that made leaving the eu so important
So far I have:
- non-wonky bananas
- non-wibbly distances in the Dartford tunnel
- blue passports
- and let us not forget 'taking back control'
What have I missed?
I may have heard one about allowing champagne in plastic bottles.
And don’t forget tampon tax.
There was the ability not to charge VAT on energy bills.
However that seems to have been quietly forgotten.
I may have heard one about allowing champagne in plastic bottles.
Wouldn't they bulge or explode? The pressure is higher than carbonated soft drinks, no?
Wouldn’t they bulge or explode? The pressure is higher than carbonated soft drinks, no?
Thats why there was a cry of “bollocks to this idea” by folk in the industry, 50 psi or 3.5 bar in a plastic bottle with a plastic cap would lead to explosions
One thing riding around the ireland and NI has shown me is how absurd the border is. I crossed it half a dozen times in one days ride.
Ooh yes, it’s a really bad idea some one in the wine industry have mentioned that’s it’s a health and safety no,no.
I’m not sure if RM is just a massive piss taker or just a terrible bell endian.
I can’t see anyone taking advantage of his cunning stunts to bother its like the pint champagne bottle, it’s just a way of limiting to where you can sell your product which isn’t usually what you want to do.
One thing riding around the ireland and NI has shown me is how absurd the border is. I crossed it half a dozen times in one days ride.
Technology was the buzzword back In the day that was going to solve it.
Did you have a trail dog with you 🙂
Stop the presses lads! The Haunted Victorian Pencil has finally come up with one of those pesky EU regulations we can do away with!
And the stupid thing is, it was our choice to use intervals of 25 metres (it's a maximum) on the distance signs and convert them into yards - we could've just used 25 yards.
Where do you think the motorways in Slovenia go to?
To Ljubljana by the look of it.
Maybe we need another thread for this.
Wouldn’t they bulge or explode? The pressure is higher than carbonated soft drinks, no?
Thats why there was a cry of “bollocks to this idea” by folk in the industry, 50 psi or 3.5 bar in a plastic bottle with a plastic cap would lead to explosions
They are stronger than you would think. I had a ghetto tubeless inflator made out of a 2L soft drinks bottle with the normal cap and it could take at least 120 psi no problem. May have been more prone to eruption if bumped by something pointy though... but left on its own, I wouldn't worry about it (unless it was under my pillow)
The “internet” says 150psi max for appropriate plastic bottles, champagne requires “only” 90psi. So there you go. No idea if that makes transporting and storing viable. 🤷🏻♂️
They are stronger than you would think.
I've had a 500ml Coke bottle explode on a car seat when left in the summer sun.
There was the ability not to charge VAT on energy bills.
However that seems to have been quietly forgotten.
Which should have happened on freedom day 🙂 as an instant Brexit bonus.
What I do remember is the instant run away from the promised NHS bus money.
Yep… Spain have just cut the Vat on leccie by another 5%
Approximately a year ago we lowered VAT on electricity from 21% to 10% and on Saturday we are going to lower VAT from 10% to 5%," the president said, a measure that should reduce electricity bills even further.
The reduction of VAT on electricity to 10%, together with the special tax on electricity to the authorised minimum of 0.5% and the suspension of the 7% tax on the Value of Production of Electric Energy, was agreed for the first time in December 2021.
Ah well didn’t take long for the new law to get used.
That Brexit protestor Steve Bray has been shut down.
If I've read that right (I may not have) he was arrested under an older law?
The new act is obviously wrong, but seemed unconnected to the actual case?
Yep, the secret sauce is better reported in the independent.
Home Secretary Priti Patel's new law extended a "controlled area" around parliament to include Parliament Square and other side streets, where the protest has based itself.
A little tweak here and a little tweak there to the law and the next minute it’s goose stepping with a funny wave up the Strand in the Hugo Boss 🙂
More like Top Man or Burtons.....
Well thank goodness for Brexit, I mean if we hadn't had Brexit we wouldn't have been able to shut down the Brexit protestor, and then where would the country be? Awash with noisy Brexit protestors everywhere, that's what.
Which should have happened on freedom day
What actually did happen on freedom day? It must be my memory going funny - I'm sure lots of things were instantly better. Can anyone remind me?
BBC PM on farming right now...
Talking to farmers who can't get seasonal workers, so have had to scale back what they grow and fire full time workers. Producing less of our own food, and putting our farm workers out of work... not quite what we were promised.
not quite what we were promised
but it is what was predicted by people with functioning brains.
What actually did happen on freedom day? It must be my memory going funny – I’m sure lots of things were instantly better. Can anyone remind me?
Some forrin virus turned up and ruined it for everyone.
but it is what was predicted by people with functioning brains.
But didn't UK farmers vote for brexit quite overwhelmingly, as did fishermen? They are quite literally reaping what they sowed.. Were they were expecting compensation for lost trade or lost EU subsidies from the conservatives? Lol!
What actually did happen on freedom day?
This guy briefly felt smug
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/pT1Xdqr8/britain-immigration-june-28-16-wide-edff935a4fe4ca99730cdcd55fa40859445352aa.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/pT1Xdqr8/britain-immigration-june-28-16-wide-edff935a4fe4ca99730cdcd55fa40859445352aa.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
But didn’t UK farmers vote for brexit quite overwhelmingly, as did fishermen?
Not quite as simple as that generalisation, The Pelagic fleet (east coast mega ships) overwhelmingly voted for Brexit whereas the Shellfish fleet (west coast ) overwhelmingly voted remain as 90% of their catch goes to European markets. According to a report by the industry trade body and fishing news (trade paper)
Similar split between large agri farms run by conglomerates who voted for Brexit whereas small crofts/individual/family run farms voted remain.
Ooh I found an actual brexit plus! Some of the Unboxed festival stuff actually looks pretty cool. And it started out as the Festival of Brexit but got rebranded and retooled when they realised how toxic it all was. So hurrah for things that only exist because they started out as flagshagging brexit bullshit but became something better with all the brexitness surgically removed
TBH the Millennium dome and olympics showed we were good at that sort of thing any way, it’s just that the gov don’t really like spending the cash(on the plebs).
Clever move by the organisers in hijacking it from the toxicity of the Brexit brand thou 🙂
Each time Steve Bray gets hassled I send him a tenner - hopefully plenty of other people are too and he can keep on reminding us just what people voted for.
Every day that passes I'm more contemptuous of anyone who votes Tory and luckily I live in a part of the UK that has the ability to get out of this toxic environment.
Another Brexit Benefit for the NHS…
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-linen-shortage-brexit-beds-b2111058.html
‘Only change linen if essential’: Hospital staff told to cut back on fresh sheets amid Brexit shortages
Textile Services Association warns that ‘shortages of linen and laundry will have a knock-on effect on the provision of beds in trusts’
Sunlit uplands people. Sunlit uplands.
*Sigh*
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/05/eu-scraps-115-grants-uk-scientists-academics-brexit-row
brexit was a tool to get the current lot in power, and look what they've done with that power.
I do have a giggle that the U.K. is going to be quietly handing over £9.4bn as part the divorce payments and ah due to the low pound it’s more than anticipated.
None of the benefits and still paying.
The hidden cost for BJ and co to have jolly japes is mind numbing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62049326
Reality is starting to hit, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.
It's been hitting the NHS for about the past 6 years.
brexit was a tool to get the current lot in power, and look what they’ve done with that power.
My usually quote - "Brexit isn't the destination, it's the vehicle"
What they've done is destabilise the UK enough to enabling the resetting of society to put folk back in their place:
AKA ordinary folk will be back to doffing their cap to their betters
I think this joke sums up brexit better than I ever could..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=moAZ3AsyhLU
Just a comment - This Brexit thread is not the same at the Economy thread that just got closed.
And herein shows the misunderstanding of the wider economy versus the effects of Brexit.
Two different ships.
Brexit is still damaging to the economy. The degree is up for debate, but it is becoming more apparent as the gap between the UK and the EU post-covid opens up. As a population we are still more vaccinated than virtually everyone else on earth. Yet our recovery is now lagging noticeably behind that of the EU. I wonder what that could be caused by...
Actually, I don't, it is the totally unnecessary and stupid isolationism of Brexit. Even the quiet Lexity fans aren't going to be able to wish it away for much longer.
But Brexit (or Lexit) is a religion, so can neither be understood nor criticised.
<Shrugs>
And herein shows the misunderstanding of the wider economy versus the effects of Brexit.
Two different ships
But they are very much connected.
Kind of like a Catamaran, I guess.
Truss's bullshit is going to be exposed soon too. There's no way the EU is going roll over on the NI protocol and no way the UK can stand the inflationary pressure of a trade war with the EU.
🤷♂️
Talking to farmers who can’t get seasonal workers, so have had to scale back what they grow and fire full time workers. Producing less of our own food, and putting our farm workers out of work… not quite what we were promised.
That doesn't tell the whole story (I haven't listened to the R4 item)
Our son applied for this summer to a farm not too far away and they wouldn't take him on. Why? Because they wanted him to live in their caravan park and he intended driving. He has several years of seasonal job references, good timekeeping, etc.
It's not too much of a stretch to imagine their economic model to be pay you a wage with one hand and take the cost of your accommodation away with the other because they've already invested in caravans.
^^^
If they do have to flog the caravans at a loss that'll go on the price to the consumer.
Or they'll just give it **** it and flog the land for hundreds of boxy 3 bed detached identikit shacks on a postage stamp plot.
Either way Brexit won't help the average UK citizen. Nor will it ever.
So the bill grows again.
Remember this is just the taxpayer / treasury payments - this is not the increased cost of doing business, or the lost trade, or the consequential cost to so many of us when buying, travelling or engaging with other European countries.
Sunlit uplands
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1550156669769900033
and let us not forget the lies and 'project fear' response at the time:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1550158229228888067
All I know is that is delays all the stuff from work I'm trying to send, even if it is declared customs objects. The stuff that used to take two days now takes 7 at least and I'm paying increased customs charges filling in more forms and I can see no Bre5h1t benefits yet...
JeZ
I assume that the French border controls now being in Dover and causing huge delays are part of the brexit dividend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-62263176
Sounds like the French took back control of their borders 😂
Sounds like the French [s]took back control[/s] [b]had never lost control of their borders, neither had we[/b] of their borders
FTFY.
Sounds like the French
took back controlhad never lost control of their borders, neither had weof their bordersuntil now, it seems...
Further amends...
Daughter is heading off on a music tour via Dover on tomorrow. I suspect departures will be brought forward
Don't they know who we are ?
Don’t they know who we are ?
They are becoming increasingly aware these days. Probably more aware than half the people sitting in the queue moaning. Besides, checking the status of random people trying to enter your country is vital, I've been told.
the daily fail are having kittens
EU 'punishing' British holidaymakers because of Brexit:
as Spain has started enforcing the £85 a day rule.
TBH I have a feeling there’s some shite stirring going on by the papers to persuade you to not go to Spain for some reason.
It’s a 3rd party country thing,they are unlikely to ask you, but if they think your attempting to enter the country for nefarious purposes.
3. Documents accrediting the purpose and conditions of the planned stay: At the request of the competent authorities, the reasons and conditions of the planned stay must be accredited by documentary proof or other means. To this end, the presentation, among others, of the following documents may be required:
Return or tourist circuit ticket, in all cases.
For professional trips, the invitation from a company or authority to participate in a meeting, or documents that prove the existence of a relationship associated with professional activity, or access cards to a trade fair or congress.
For tourist or private visits, the confirmed reservation of an organized trip, or proof of accommodation, or letter of invitation from a private individual (such a letter only proves the availability of accommodation and does not release the traveller from the obligation to meet the other requirements for entry). The proof of accommodation may indicate whether it includes all or part of the traveller's living expenses.
For study trips, training programmes, non-work internships or volunteer work with a duration of less than three months, enrolment documentation or proof of admission to an educational establishment or internship contract or proof of admission to a volunteer programme.For travel for other reasons, an invitation, reservation, programme or certificate of participation in related activities, entrance card/ticket, or receipt.
My personal favourite is the bank statement - how retro 🙂
Accreditation of financial means
At the request of the competent authorities, the traveller must present proof of having sufficient financial means for the proposed stay or of the ability to legally obtain such means.
In 2020, the minimum amount required is 90 euros per person per day. In any case, and regardless of the length of stay, the traveller must have at least 810 euros or its equivalent in foreign currency.
Economic means may be accredited by presenting cash, traveller's cheques, a credit card accompanied by a bank account statement, an up-to-date bank book, or any other resource that accredits the amount available, such as a credit statement regarding the card or bank account. Bank letters or online bank statements will not be accepted.
So a family of four on a two week holiday to Beni would need to show they have €5040.
I expect the Spanish tourist board are having a melt down over this 🙂
Spanish tourist board are having a melt down over this
are they like the German Car Industry ?
There’s currently a thing circulating on Facebook in Spain that you require an International Driving Permit to drive on holiday and people have been fined for not having one.
There’s actually a Spanish police Facebook group (N332)trying to find out if anyone has been fined as this is not the case.
Expat Facebook groups are grim thou.
are they like the German Car Industry ?
Dunno but if the regs were being applied nearly every U.K. holidaymaker would be being turned back at the border,this isn’t a new rule and I’m not sure how many people are packing bank statements for their holibobs which unless I missed the news isn’t the case.
.
Is this Project Fear?
Dunno why it’s hitting the news as it’s not a new thing,it’s the boggo 3rd country rules.
If you read the mail it’s could be applied.
There’s tons of these 3rd party rules that are now applicable - Spanish driving licence exchange (or not as the case is at the moment)
The media seems to dredge them up on a slow day for some reason.
It’s almost like the solution to all the eu travel woes is to put you off travelling to the eu and those nasty furriners that are punishing you for daring to leave the eu 🙂