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If the French could only discover some way to print the Crown symbol dimensionally larger than our actual pint glasses upon which it’s printed - might we then re-join the EU as a final ‘Brexit upgrade’ ?
Have we done the Tobias Elwood advocating re-joining the single market / customs union
I hope they remember the things that go with that package and why it wasn't in the deal.
Norway will veto any attempt to join EFTA. they have made that quite clear. 4 smallish economies do not need a much large economy mucking things up that have run smoothly for decades and thre UK is seen as a trouble maker
Elwood makes that point @Edukator - but as we’re short of labour for a good number of actors that might well be a benefit too.
Jet2 finally said it straight up - a lot of the airport chaos is simply down to Brexit and the lack of foreign workers who used to do those jobs.
So far everyone else has been going on about "unforeseen demand" and Covid and overbooked holidays but very few airports in Europe are seeing these sorts of issues.
In spain they also have to manually check and stamp the passports due to them being 3 country status.
Sort of also expected and direct consequence of Brexit.
I’m not sure how it’s going to pan out long term as the tourist industry don’t really it like it as it’s bad PR.
Jet2 finally said it straight up
The jet2 CEO also said British workers were lazy benefits scroungers. If companies like his didn’t pay poverty wages maybe he’d have more luck recruiting people.
The jet2 CEO also said British workers were lazy benefits scroungers.
British workers are benefit scroungers?
As Dire Straits once sang, "two men think they're Jesus... one of them must be wrong."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jet2-boss-blames-airport-chaos-27137175
Interesting also that easyJet and Swissport are reporting they can’t recruit because applicants are demanding more than the 17-24k they’re willing to pay. What conclusion should we draw from that regarding brexit?
Many airport based roles require years of training (and slow to obtain security checks). People can’t apply today, and be in place doing the job Monday. Starting salaries are lower than long term salaries. Not allowing qualified, cleared and experienced people to work at airports beyond their “home” airport… when in some cases they can literally get to them quicker than many people can get to their offices, is needlessly restrictive. It prevents short term mismatches of demand for air travel and availability of trained staff being dealt with in a sensible way. Brexit broke air travel for Brits.
Brexit broke air travel for Brits.
Good. We need fewer people flying.
they can’t recruit because applicants are demanding more than the 17-24k they’re willing to pay. What conclusion should we draw from that regarding brexit?
That wages - before and after Brexit - are/were too low.
Maybe acting to address that issue directly might have been a better idea than leaving the European Union and hoping that fairer wages might be an indirect result**?
**let's face it, they probably won't.
Maybe acting to address that issue directly might have been a better idea than leaving the European Union
I agree but to most brexit supporters this will be all the evidence they need that they made the right decision. Calling for an influx of foreign labour because British workers are demanding higher wages isn’t a good look.
Boss of Asda has pissed all over Johnsons Imperial Chips
Returning to imperial measures is 'complete and utter nonsense', Asda boss warns as government launches consultation
Tory peer and Asda chairman Lord Rose says returning to pounds and ounces would only please "a small minority who hark for the past".
“A small minority” that can be relied on to actually turn out vote, and vote for “complete and utter nonsense” that they would describe as “good old British common sense”. It’s a desperate attempt to get those people back on side… but Johnson is losing (even) them fast, and this won’t work.
The thing I don't get with this imperial system is why the effort is so half hearted.
Why not go the whole hog and re-introduce the imperial money system.
The thing I don’t get with this imperial system is why the effort is so half hearted.
Why not go the whole hog and re-introduce the imperial money system.
Because if his opponenets are going on about this imperial nonsense then they are not going on about partygate. Best thing we can do is ignore it . Besides the only thing they don't do halfarsed is line the pockets of their mates
Good. We need fewer people flying.
Going anywhere nice this year? 🤣
Why not go the whole hog and re-introduce the imperial money system.
I believe they wish to go the whole hog and reintroduce the Empire.
(stick your own “Harry, I am your father” joke in here)
It's hard not to be a bringer of doom and gloom and tbh i'm still in denial over giving up freedom of movement and E.U funding for er a more powerful Vacuum.
Anyway without any more ado - Some unhappy fisher folk and a rather expensive boat shaped paperweight 🙁
giving up freedom of movement and E.U funding for er a more powerful Vacuum.
It was a less efficient vacuum. EU regs were to encourage efficiency not simply reduce power.
Indeed ... "uses more power" does not mean more powerful.
Not watching that video right now dude... but UK fishing is screwed. It's what we voted against, but we're not allowed to point that out. The problems can be fixed, and the industry can be saved... but we're not allowed to point out how. Middle class remoaners.
On fishing, and the wider picture…
“Brexit has meant we have to work harder for less money, we have to employ extra staff for the admin.
“I was the first one to put my hands up to say I’m sorry I voted to come out of Europe. I really wish we were still in it.”
Any ideas what could have caused this weird trend in business investment which started in mid-2016?
If only some-one had warned us this might happen.
And that’s despite the super reductions and all the other emergency tax breaks for businesses to try and shore up investment.
Looks like the farming industry is about to go the same way as the fishing industry, with the slow realisation that they too have been completely ****ed by Brexit and all the promises made by Boris and co were just a pack of lies
Honestly the CAP was a shit policy, and needs moving away from. But at the same time, any agriculture policy - especially one that involves so many different points of view, and that needs to take account of environmental concerns, international trade, net zero ambitions, value fro money, the agreement of farmers and consumers. whilst at the same time being delivered by DEFRA (which hasn't got the best reputation for delivery of policy) and agreed with the Treasury was going to be well beyond the capability of this bunch of charlatans
The farmers and food producers must be delighted, the UK hasn’t introduced any import controls from the EU whilst UK food exports to the EU require reams of paperwork and we’ve severely impeded access to our most accessible market.
Some good news, at least.
That is brilliant to see
The revelations from that trial were very interesting, particularly the stuff about Banks's russian wife (passport number sequential to that of a known russian spy deported for being part of a honeypot trap for a lib dem MP https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/why-do-men-still-fall-for-the-lure-of-the-honeypot-2374275.html)
amazes me theres not some sort of MI5 investigation into Banks, something stinks
On fishing, and the wider picture…
“Brexit has meant we have to work harder for less money, we have to employ extra staff for the admin.
“I was the first one to put my hands up to say I’m sorry I voted to come out of Europe. I really wish we were still in it.”
The decision to leave the European Union has undoubtedly delivered greater political freedoms. The UK has been able to enact immigration reforms and a speedy vaccine rollout during the Covid-19 pandemic.
and even on those limited terms they\ve still failed.
The judge in the Carole Cadwalladr / Arron Banks case ruled:
- Cadwalladr had no facts to support the claims she made against Banks
- Cadwalladr had therefore defamed Banks
- Cadwalladr should not pay any damages because even though she had no facts to support her claim she believed it was correct and her followers were all in their own echo chamber on twitter thus no damage was done to the reputation of Banks
Comments from the Judge:
“it may reasonably be inferred that the vast majority of the defendant’s followers on Twitter “are likely to be persons within her own echo chamber” and “it’s probably right that they wouldn’t have thought very much of [the claimant] by that time”. In my judgment, those within the jurisdiction to whom the Tweet was published are likely to consist of people whose opinion of the claimant was of no consequence to him.
The claimant’s case on this issue is essentially dependent on drawing an inference of serious harm from the combination of the gravity of the imputation and the extent of publication. While I have been persuaded, on balance, to draw such an inference in relation to the TED Talk, in my judgment, the claimant has not established that the Tweet caused (or is likely to cause) serious harm to Mr Banks’s reputation.”
Whether any of the facts were in dispute wasn't the case or the argument made by Bank's lawyers, it was whether his reputation had been damaged. the judge ruled that he's suffered no reputational loss.
i.e., Mr Bank's reputation isn't worth anything.
the claimant has not established that the Tweet caused (or is likely to cause) serious harm to Mr Banks’s reputation.”
Hasn't changed my view of Banks 🙂
Banks lying didnt help him,
according to the judgement he was 'evasive & lacked candour' under questioning- he lied
unable/unwilling to explain where he got the money from
'forgot' that he met multiple Kremlin offcials, multiple times...
no wonder he lost
and the stuff about his wife also looks dodgy as hell
I understand why Levaers/ Tories might be in denial about Putin's support of Brexit, and Im not saying he swung the result either way, but its obvious that he tried
one day there will be a proper investigation into Banks/Russia/Brexit, but theres no way this or any subsequent Tory government will allow it.
I mean who could ever think this guy was a Russian stooge?
Hold on, when did the Isle of Wight become independent?
Probably at the same point it’s government was overrun by Nazi’s
Actually met a Leaver who was openly admitting that Brexit has turned out to be totally shit and they actually blamed OUR government for the mess! The realisation that NI could be pushed unwillingly back into the atmosphere that the Troubles came from has properly spooked them.
Maybe it was luck but maybe the tide is turning in the public mind.
The realisation that NI could be pushed unwillingly back into the atmosphere that the Troubles
I read a blog about the intersection of politics and international law and one of the posts was talking about one of the more genuinely confusing and ultimately self-defeating decisions that was the DUP's support for Brexit. Amongst the answers from contributors and the readers of the blog was that at it's heart the "Paisleite" faction in the DUP genuinely see the EU as a work of Popery and therefore to be rejected at all costs ( also that because Sinn Fein supported remain, the DUP naturally should be opposed to that position), but also the idea that a small minority within the DUP would be really quite content to see a return of a hard borders and all the nonsense that goes along with it.
Maybe it was luck but maybe the tide is turning in the public mind
I occasionally get The Times on a know-your-enemy basis, this is their cartoon today…
And there is a full page article interviewing farmers who are presently ploughing millions and millions of pounds worth of rotting crops back into the fields as they haven’t got the manpower to harvest them. The blame is laid squarely where it belongs… at the door of the insanity that is Brexit
The Times?!
The Times?!
The Times is read by business people. These people want to make money as quickly and effectively as possible. Normally, Tory governments facilitate this, but being in the EU also facilitated this. So many if not most business people were remainers. Freedom of movement is great for people running businesses but not great for British people who want jobs, which is why Brexit was never a Labour/Tory split.
Freedom of movement is great for people running businesses but not great for British people who want jobs
The utter nonsense of that argument has surely now been ruthlessly exposed for the complete bullshit it always was
There are literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of job vacancies out there with no takers, which is having a hugely detrimental effect on our economy
Where are all these ‘British people who want jobs’ then?
not great for British people who want jobs
Obviously, that depends on whether they want jobs that require freedom of movement. Who’d be a roadie with only a UK passport these days? I definitely wouldn’t work for an airline… watching all those chances for work abroad and career progression woosh past me as Irish and joint passport holders take them. Even in IT, your specialism can quickly be disappearing overseas, where you are no longer seen as equal pegging with a comparable professional from anywhere else in Europe.
The judge in the Carole Cadwalladr / Arron Banks case ruled:
The judge ruled that Banks lost and Cadwalladr won. Hope that clears things up.
The judge in the Carole Cadwalladr / Arron Banks case ruled:
– Cadwalladr had no facts to support the claims she made against Banks
– Cadwalladr had therefore defamed Banks
– Cadwalladr should not pay any damages because even though she had no facts to support her claim she believed it was correct and her followers were all in their own echo chamber on twitter thus no damage was done to the reputation of Banks
A few people out there are conflating libel and defamation. This wasn't a defamation action, it was a libel action, there are additional hurdles to clear. To win a libel action, you must demonstrate that the statement was a) defamatory b) published c) the publication was likely to cause reputational damage.
The plaintiff also can attempt the defences of justification: 'It's true and I can prove it', or public interest (as CC attempted unsuccessfully here).
Banks' libel action didn't fail on a technicality, it failed because the publication was incapable of causing him reputational damage, because of both its relatively tiny audience and the existing poor state of his reputation among that audience.
The funny thing is that if he had sued any other bigger media organisation which insinuated that his links to Russia were unsavoury, or that the origin of Brexit campaign funding was questionable (and I'm sure there were some), he would probably have won, going by this judgement, because the audience would have been bigger and more diverse.
But he chose to go after and attempt to bankrupt a single journalist against whom he had a long-standing grudge. And lost. Hope the estimated 500K - 1M legal fees (plus Carole's) are worth it.
R4 on Sunday had one of those conversation between two people programs on.
One pair was a bloke from "off the falls road" and one was an Orangeman. Holy shit. The Orangeman got about 2minutes into his obvious hatred before I had to turn it off.
NI will burn if they don't get their way.
I can remember people I knew who’s sons having joined the army went on to die in Northern Ireland.
I wonder what is in the future for this dis-United Kingdom. Mind you, I think I said that on the original Brexit thread. There may be Troubles ahead was the slightly black line I used IIRC.
Well done Brexies.
The Brexiteers don’t give a toss about Northern Ireland, or the good Friday agreement. They couldn’t give a monkey’s if it collapsed into sectarian conflict again.
What’s equally worrying is the hopelessly naïveté in thinking that by further annoying the EU, breaking international law and starting a trade war that this will convince the DUP to re-enter power-sharing.
It won’t
Backed by the nutters in the ERG, against a pitifully weak and useless PM, they’ll simply bank these concessions then demand more. And more. And more.
Meanwhile, I doubt the EU will initially do much as these are just proposals that will have to get through Parliament, but the general consensus in Brussels is that Boris won’t be around for much longer anyway. Though if they think whichever idiot gets the job next will be any more cooperative… good luck with that
The utter nonsense of that argument has surely now been ruthlessly exposed for the complete bullshit it always was
I should clarify that I was talking about the views of voters, not reality. I support FoM.
I can remember people I knew who’s sons having joined the army went on to die in Northern Ireland.
I wonder what is in the future for this dis-United Kingdom. Mind you, I think I said that on the original Brexit thread. There may be Troubles ahead was the slightly black line I used IIRC.
Well done Brexies.
Something to think about, i read somewhere that at the height of the British empire there were more troops deployed in Ireland than any other part of the empire because of the continued rebellions. Not on a per population basis but in absolute terms. The English nationalists have very short memories.
I should clarify that I was talking about the views of voters, not reality. I support FoM.
actually its not strictly true, either:
Labour voters backed remain 65:35
Tory voters backed brexit 61:39
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted
theres a lot to unpack there obvs, age & education being the biggest deciders
And the plummet continues
A few people out there are conflating libel and defamation. This wasn’t a defamation action, it was a libel action, there are additional hurdles to clear. To win a libel action, you must demonstrate that the statement was a) defamatory b) published c) the publication was likely to cause reputational damage.
The difference is between libel and slander, defamation is the umbrella term for both. Slander is the one you can commit just by speaking, libel has to have a permanant form (putting things on the internet or broadcasting them are libel, not slander). The main difference is that actual (not just reputational) damage has to be proved in slander, though there there are exceptions. Publication and defamatoryness have to be shown for both types of defamation. The Defamation Act 2013 introduced the requirement for serious reputational harm for all types of defamation, the Cadwallader case is an example of this provision achieving its intended purpose.
Banks' action was for libel because the TED talk was broadcast and put on the internet, so different from if CC had just made the comments at a cocktail party with no knowledge or understanding that it would be broadcast etc. He also sued in relation to some tweets and in relation to the ongoing publication of the tweets (by leaving them there) after the facts had changed.
Calls for the Brexit bulldog to be banned (link to cnn)
I could make a sweeping analogy to Brexit voters here after reading the cnn article above…….I’ll give it a go
“The breed, also known as the English Brexit bulldog, is "compromised" by a "high rate of health issues related to extreme body shape" that has been bred into them,
A new study by the college calls for "urgent action" to reduce the many serious health problems that, it says, are associated with the brexiteers "exaggerated features," such as their flat faces.
They hope the study, which reveals that English Brexit bulldogs are more than twice as likely to develop a range of health disorders, will deter people from breeding.
"The English Brexit Bulldog has risen sharply in popularity in the UK over the past decade. However, its distinctive and exaggerated short muzzle, protruding lower jaw and stocky body shape has been linked with several serious health and welfare issues, including breathing problems, skin, ear diseases and eye disorders along with a rather pugnacious underlying character.
"Sadly, many of the breed's problematic characteristics such as a very flat face, deep facial skin folds and noisy breathing are still often perceived by many people as 'normal' or even 'desirable' novelties rather than major welfare issues."
Quite an accurate description by any standards of definition
Two (of the many) Brexidiots at work were pissing and moaning this morning about the extra paperwork required to send some kit to an exhibition in Europe this morning. Apparently, it's the EU being ****s and punishing us... 😒
Hopefully you reminded them that "this is what you voted for"?
I just laughed at them and wandered off. They are the the shouty kind of gammons so there's no point in engaging with them once they start ranting.
Sometimes I wonder if we will see England forced to go it alone, with the other three UK nations going independent or even forming their own union, with a long term aim to rejoin the EU.
I've concluded that the time is now right to campaign for GB to rejoin the Single Market, putting GB in the same situation as NI and removing any need for the Protocol. There are already four non-EU countries in the SM <span class="Typography__text--11-2-14 Typography__t4--11-2-14 Typography__l6--11-2-14">(Switzerland, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway). The question in the referendum was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" That was all, nothing about the SM, so rejoining doesn't go against the referendum result. Given how close the EU vote was, if there had been a referendum on the SM it would probably have been for staying in, and it was proposed by Ken Clarke at the time.</span>
It would fix a lot of other Brexit issues as well as the Protocol, and massively increase confidence in the pound, helping to mitigate the cost of living crisis.
It will never happen with Boris as PM, but we can hope.
I’ve concluded that the time is now right to campaign for GB to rejoin the Single Market, putting GB in the same situation as NI and removing any need for the Protocol
I think there’s a slow realisation in all but the hardest-of-thinking Brexiteer nutjobs that this is the only solution. There was an editorial saying exactly this in the Times this week, and even some previously quite Brexity Tory MPs are whispering it
Of course there is no chance of it happening with this bunch of useless lunatics in charge. After all, their Brexit culture war is literally all they’ve got. It’s a cult. An article of faith
Hopefully, within a couple of years, now the promised ‘sunlit uplands’ is becoming a reality, we’ll have some grown ups back in charge
If NI is not technically out can we move parliament to stormont, while it's being flattened for social housing, sorry I mean fixed. Then drag GB back in line with NI putting UK back in Europe.
I'm back from the Ardeche, a school trip taking kids down the river. It appears Brexit has screwed a number of the British companies operating there. Some companies have been used to operating with Brits prepared to work for modest salaries for the privilege of working in what amounts to a scout camp - but in a fantastic location. British canoe qualifications no longer cut it. The result is that some very famous names I won't name have thrown in the towel for the moment.
The people we stayed with, Adventure in English, because they deserve a plug, are struggling with staffing but have survived. The French chef had just walked out so a French security guard was doing the cooking, the French kids loved the food (so did I), perhaps because it ressembled their school menus and home cooking, but the British clients complained about it.
So there's a hole to be filled. The shake out means there's a shortage of activity holidays and somehow supply will rise to meet demand, but whoever does it needs a new business model.
Sometimes I wonder if we will see England forced to go it alone, with the other three UK nations going independent or even forming their own union, with a long term aim to rejoin the EU.
While Scotland could do it alone I think Wales would have to be in a union to survive wouldn't they but it would generally be a good move for them as looking at what they vote for Scotland and Wales are different places to England and England seems to be getting worse not better.
Without the other two small nations Wales would definitely be feeling pretty isolated so some sort of major change would have to happen.
I think Wales would have to be in a union to survive
There are load of countries, many in Europe, that are smaller than Wales. Some aren’t in any kind of Union at all. Most are… but then so are most bigger countries, because… genuine considerable upsides, rather than fantasy ones.
There are load of countries, many in Europe, that are smaller than Wales.
As a Welsh person edging more towards the TJ doctrine with each passing week of this government I must still point out that this argument is pretty weak. There are small countries yes but there's far more to it than simply size.
Small independent countries have generally been so for a long time, at leat before industrialisation and globalisation. That means they start off poor and build their own industrial economies. Wales has never done this. Just look at map. The two main rail lines and the two biggest roads go to England, and there are reasons for this. The main north-south road is a winding country road, precisely because there's hardly any traffic on it.
Wales was annexed 500 years ago, it simply does not have its own modern economy.
I think that if an indy vote were ever to pass here, it would have to be the start of a multi decade process of gradually increasing devolution and international preparation which would require cooperative rUK government. However, I can see how Scottish Independence and Irish reunification could very likely start this process.
I mean, if both John and George had left the Beatles first you'd be pretty sure that Paul and Ringo would be looking at calling it a day.
And I always reply with, "look at Slovenia". Broke from a larger "union" of nations (Yugoslavia) to become an independent nation of similar area and population to Wales. I first went there in 1997, not long after independence and then again in 2011. The difference was staggering. The first time it was like Eastern Germany after the fall of the wall. The second time you could have been in Switzerland. Huge transformation.
http://www.syniadau.cymru/2011/12/wales-slovenia-and-independence.html
In fact a google brings up this article. Since 2011 the differences have increased further still
Slovenia is on the European mainland and on major trade routes, Wales is on an island and cut off from trade by England.
Slovenia is a nice hot and sunny tourist destination easily reached from central Europe. Wales is wet windy and most definitely not very popular with rich German tourists.
Slovenia is in the EU and Euro
Slovenia has a well-educated population and excellent health service.
Slovenia has a thriving manufacturing sector with easy geographical access to its customers in Germany, Italy... .
Slovenia is perhaps the best advert for joining the EU and Wales the best advert for not leaving.
Iceland manages to be independent without being on the European mainland, cut off by the sea, without a hot and sunny climate, without being in the EU and with a population about 1/10th that of Wales.
But had to get a IMF bail-out after the financial crash of 2008, Tourism makes up a good percentage of it's economy, and it has a huge aluminium sector because electricity is essentially free.
I think you can make pros and cons for every small nation, I don't think there's any reason why Wales couldn't make a go of being a small nation inside the EU. But like Scotland, Wales currency would probably have to be the Euro, I don't know how well that would go down really.
Cadwalladr had no facts to support the claims she made against Banks
Not true. She had no facts to support what Bank’s team said could be inferred from one particular claim. The actual claim was that he lied about his connections to the Russian government. And he did. They tried to make it about funding and intention, neither of which could be proven, so there was no attempted defence or truthfulness, but then how could there be, the claim was simply that he lied about contact with the Russian government.
It felt like I’d stepped into the pages of a Kafka novel. The judge’s ruling meant that I was going to be put on trial to defend the truth of a statement I’d never actually said or meant.
When news broke that I’d withdrawn the truth defence and would instead be defending it only on public interest, it sent the rightwing media system into meltdown. A tsunami of abusive articles, tweets, pronouncements from commentators and MPs…
As I’m not in the public eye, I can call it as it is… Banks is most probably a Russian operative married to a Russian spy, who has successfully obscured the fact that his wealth is a result of Russian state sponsorship and assistance.
We helped Putin to destabilise both Europe and trans Atlantic cooperation when we we voted to leave the EU.
"We helped Putin to destabilise both Europe and trans Atlantic cooperation when we we voted to leave the EU."
Didn't we just.. Interestingly I saw a clip of Divid Cameron the other day, warning that us leaving the EU could lead to war. Dismissed as project fear of course.
Though for many of is the thought occurs that if he was smart enough to see that danger, why was he so stupid as to run the risk of that eventuality occurring?
As I’m not in the public eye, I can call it as it is… Banks is most probably a Russian operative married to a Russian spy, who has successfully obscured the fact that his wealth is a result of Russian state sponsorship and assistance.
On behalf of Singletracks lawyers, I'd like to add the word "allegedly" to that sentence.
Iceland manages to be independent… …without being in the EU
Although not in the EU, Iceland is in the single market. GB needs to rejoin the single market asap.
Iceland is in the single market.
And an independent Scotland or Wales could be as well. They wouldn’t have to join the EU for decades… if at all. They probably would join pretty quickly… but there is no need for any independence arguments to be dominated by an in/out of EU discussion. If operating as if within the Single Market, yet still trading with rUK, is good enough for Northern Ireland…