What about the plants those brands have in Austria, Germany & Slovakia (and further afield)?
What about the plants those brands have in Austria, Germany & Slovakia (and further afield)?
They won’t have a made in GB sticker on them so will be less desirable 🙂
grum
Surely it is likely that some things will become economical to make in the UK because we will have to pay so much more to import stuff
Advocating protectionism? But Brexit was about global free trade, getting away from the protectionist EU.
Advocating protectionism? But Brexit was about global free trade, getting away from the protectionist EU.
Let's face it. For millions of Leave voters it was bugger all to do with anything other than petty xenophobia.
Well surprisingly I haven’t spent an awful lot of time thinking about the advantages because I wanted to stay in
...
start thinking about what you might gain
But this is a question we've been asking for four years, with little sensible response. Might I suggest you take your own advice and let us know what you come up with?
a comprehensive industrial strategy to rebuild the UK’s manufacturing base
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You really are just trolling, aren't you. You cannot seriously believe that that's a credible option.
Advocating protectionism? But Brexit was about global free trade, getting away from the protectionist EU.
You aren’t understanding the difference.
1. EU = lefty muslim globalist marxist Jewish Lizard protectionist racket disguised as a single market with a few protections
vs
2. Post-Brexit UK = Proper Nationalism with a ‘not globalist’ global ‘free market’ all sourced and made in Britain by Proper British and not by or from our evolving ‘not globalist’ global ‘free market’ trading partners.
Easy when you say it loud.
Always makes me giggle.... industrial strategy..... levelling up.......
We are now out in the big bad world, a world dominated by China, America and the EU. We are so piss poor by comparison (not talking GDP talking cash) it is truly frightening.
We can not compete on our own at this level, its corner shop v Tesco. We will be ruined by automation and debt.
its corner shop v Tesco
i only recently found that most of our local corner shops are actually rebadged Tescos. That’s in addition to the Tesco mini market down the road that ‘ ‘competes’ with the rebadged ones. It’s like Inception vs Monopoly. Since Covid they pretty much own online groceries with not only the largest share of UK online groceries but almost doubling that of Asda at number 2.
The defeatism and lack of imagination is clearly worse than I thought.
Mate this is bordering on insulting now. I have plenty of imagination. I've thought a great deal about the roots of our problems, and I have solutions. I've talked a out them many times on this thread and others.
The problem is that talking about it isn't enough. How do I implement them? I just don't know. Do you?
You talk about how we could rebuild manufacturing and become a world leader in green tech etc etc and yes, we COULD. We're all aware of this. But most of us don't think it's going to happen for decades if ever, because of the political climate. So.acxusing us of lacking imagination is just spurious. Us sitting here imaginig how we want the country to move forward isn't going to help a fat lot. We do imagine it, then we realise why it's never going to happen. How do we get around that? Give us your solutions. How do we get the UK to vote for what you propose?
Astons, Bentleys, and JCBs etc. Am I correct in thinking you could only sell them in the EU up until a few days ago? Sorry, I'm being a bit of a dick. We successfully sold them all over the world didn't we? There weren't any obstructions were there, to selling in the global market? Are we going to sell more now? Not just these examples, but all the other stuff we make?
Somebody remind me again, why?
Also, my friend the Doctor, he hasn't seen a big cheque for £350 million yet. Silly me, its a weekend, and it's been christmas.I'll ring him tomorrow.
Having had time to digest the deal I'd like to thank Michel Barnier for his excellent work in defending my interests as a French national and EU citizen. It looks like 6 years of pensions contributions I'd thought I'd lose will be counted after all. Why the UK negotioators gave up so easily on the banking passport/services but gave us the right to sell all our flash cars and yummy food to you I have no idea.
As a British citizen (even though I haven't managed to convince anyone in Britain I'm British for well over a decade because how am I supposed to with neither an identity card, valid passport nor address?), I was heartened by Dominique Grieve on France 24 earlier, a europhile British politician who clearly understands the issues and can express them in excellent French. I'll watch his political career with interest, can an enlightened pragmatist survive in British politics?
andy8442
Free Member
Astons, Bentleys, and JCBs etc. Am I correct in thinking you could only sell them in the EU up until a few days ago? Sorry, I’m being a bit of a dick. We successfully sold them all over the world didn’t we? There weren’t any obstructions were there, to selling in the global market? Are we going to sell more now? Not just these examples, but all the other stuff we make?
Andy, I work for a British manufacturer of industrial equipment. Like the vast majority of British manufacturing companies we source almost all of our components from the Far East and simply assemble them in the UK. The biggest market for our UK assembled products is Europe. We had a communication from the company recently to say that our products will incur significant increases in net tariffs and that the company will absorb these costs for Q1 2021 and then re-assess. It would not surprise me one bit if the UK plant was replaced by one in Europe.
Some of the prestige companies (Aston. Bentley etc) will survive with a price hike because people want them no matter what. The industrial/consumer market is incredibly cut-throat and increases in overheads cannot be passed to the customer on because it makes a product uncompetitive.
We cannot start sourcing components from the UK because that would also be too expensive so companies like mine are pretty screwed.
The problem is that talking about it isn’t enough. How do I implement them? I just don’t know. Do you?
Really not sure why you feel insulted by the suggestion that UK will be able to do some things outside the EU which it couldn’t before, it’s just a simple fact. And I’ve never said any single person can change anything. What I don’t really get though is the general unchallengeable view on here that being a member of the EU is the solution to all our problems. Evidently it isn’t as otherwise we’d still be in it.
As for rebuilding industry, the suggestion that it’s not possible is plainly ridiculous, and only supports my view. Will it be easy? No. Will it happen overnight? No. But it is possible. If we don’t have enough engineers or scientists then let’s train them. If it’s too expensive or risky for the private sector alone then support them with public money. If there are political barriers then use our power as one of the worlds major economies to negotiate a way through them.
All of this and no doubt much more is possible for a government with the political will, the money, a mandate from the public and the freedom to set policy as they see fit. This isn’t a unicorn jingoistic fantasy, it’s simple political and economic reality. I do agree though that the chances of any of this happening under the tories are slim. There’s a very obvious and entirely achievable solution to that problem.
it’s just a simple fact.
NO its not. there is nothing that we can do now that we couldn't in the EU. Brexit just makes everything more difficult and expensive
So i now have loads of snowflake Brexiteers telling me i need to take advantage of the new "opportunities" of a global market so i can in turn provide them with highly paid jobs (the dumb arse unqualified who voted for this) and tax take (the dumb arsed government they elected)
So snowflakes you want me to risk my capital and invest my energy in delivering what you want?
This is catch 22 on a nation state level - two sections of society both with little talent or abilty and no capability to deliver anything.
1. Tory party - thick as shit and looking for free money - takers not makers
2. Brexiteers- thick as shit and looking for free money - takers not makers
Two cheeks of the same arse.
PS. I note I’m in broad agreement with Tony Blair. Strange times.
Sooo dazh how are you personally going to create jobs, capital and tax take? Now you have a brave new world?
Or are you sat waiting for someone else to sort that bit? If so you are a taker.
To be blunt i see a lot of people spouting this shite but doing nowt.
If you want a few ideas just ask... but remember it will require cash (yours or a bank, VC, Angel Investor) and you will probably have to work 80 hours a week for minimum wage for many years and it may go wrong and you may loose house, family,credibility, credit rating..
Awaits excuses.....
your simple political and economic reality is rather light on reality. sorry about that. the only way we become competitive in a global market is by massive (by which i mean substantially more than the 20% hit it's already taken) devaluation of the pound. i'm sure it's a winning strategy though. i mean your ideas on 'what labour should do' have definitely paid off in the last two elections.
i think maybe we do focus on what the individual can do. because if current form is anything to go by we can't rely on any form of governance that is going to be forward looking. in my job me and my boss are looking to diversify from our almost exclusive servicing work (much of which comes from EU - awks) to include low level manufacturing. what are doing to make a go of things?
If your business is UK luxury goods Brexit should be a godsend. The US,China and Asia lap up our goods.
I'm sorry, did we not sell to those markets before now?
As for rebuilding industry, the suggestion that it’s not possible is plainly ridiculous, and only supports my view. Will it be easy? No. Will it happen overnight? No. But it is possible. If we don’t have enough engineers or scientists then let’s train them.
Are you serious? We don't just have a lack of skills, we have a lack of skilled people to train other folk up. By and large our trades are extinct. Where other countries have decades of experience we would be starting from nothing, be that skills or the actual manufacturing.
If it’s too expensive or risky for the private sector alone then support them with public money.
LMAO! What, like we did with Sheffield Forgemasters? Remember them, they were the ones Labour flung under the bus and allowed Le Cruesot to take the contract. Neither of the big parties give the slightest crap about anything outside private enterprise, their track records have more than shown that. Why you think this is going to change is beyond me.
If there are political barriers then use our power as one of the worlds major economies to negotiate a way through them.
Hmm, if only we had access to a nearby labour market with preferable trade agreements...
We don’t just have a lack of skills, we have a lack of skilled people to train other folk up. By and large our trades are extinct. Where other countries have decades of experience we would be starting from nothing, be that skills or the actual manufacturing.
This.
Thirty five years ago I was working in construction. The firm I was subcontracted to had a number of bricklayers but if there was some complicated brickwork specified by the architects then "Paul" was called up to do it. The problem was that Paul was nearing retirement and none of the other brickies were good enough. Those other brickies are now nearing retirement so there's at least one generation where Paul's skillset has disappeared.
It wasn't just that firm, apprenticeships were being abandoned by many firms large and small as it "was cheaper" to get an existing tradesman/craftsman in than train up the next generation of craftsmen. Of course what happened was that the tradesmen/craftsmen retired and we took in foreign workers.
That's just in manual skills, goodness knows what more technical roles are like in terms of skills shortage.
the general unchallengeable view on here that being a member of the EU is the solution to all our problems
I’ll buy you a beer for every user that has posited this on this, or any, thread.
Now, which problems have now been solved by us not being a member?
And all this is irrelevant, we aren’t a member. We have to look forward. And for Labour, that includes having a trade & foreign policy well beyond “we’ll do whatever Johnson says he’ll do”… and many voters will hope that means taking steps to vastly improve on the awful deal Johnson accepted last year, due to the narrow red lines that come from a narrow group in his own party.
I would love manufacturing to be our saviour, but it isn't going to happen. In fact I think we'll be lucky not to see an accelerated decline. Considerable investment will be needed just to stand still IMHO. If only we were a country with free access to one of the biggest markets in the world, we might be able to attract that investment. (Oh, hang on, we were - but we just pissed it up the wall. Never mind.)
Skills shortage is very real - both technical and craft.
Really not sure why you feel insulted by the suggestion that UK will be able to do some things outside the EU which it couldn’t before, it’s just a simple fact.
Lol mate that wasn't the insulting part. It was the bit where you said I lacked imagination and where I am just sitting here crying.
@dazh you are 0erfevtly correct in theory, we could of course transform ourselves into a manufacturing powerhouse. But it's not happening. Not in the next 20 years.
And we could have done that anyway! If there was a will to do that we'd have been doing it all along. The political climate just isn't there to support that kind of state investment, nor is the money.
Now, you may be right in that a major economic disaster might force this, New Deal style, but I don't want to have to.live through a disaster for that to happen. It'd be a bad thing. And what happened last time there was an economic disaster? They used it as an excuse to slash spending, and were rewarded at the ballot box for it.
Sorry to have to give you this news but the democratic socialist UK ain't coming. You talk about the "simple solution", you mean create a competent Labour offering and persuade everyone to vote for it, right? If you think that's simple you can't have been paying attention the last few elections!
This thread is an echo chamber of negativity.
I hope you are all enjoying it.
Doesn’t the air outside feel so much fresher now we are free!
Rule Britannia!
Reality
I am still awaiting someone telling me what we can do now that we couldn't do before
This thread is an echo chamber of negativity.
I hope you are all enjoying it.
Classic projection? Is it difficult for you to imagine that someone can’t be
1. Enjoying this?
and/or
2. Motivated to comment by anything other than spite?
The best thing you could do here (as a believer?) would be to give hope and list the positives. Make the argument. Break the ‘echo’. So...?
On the manufacturing point, a huge proportion of the capital and seed funding for new manufacturing centres of excellence in the U.K. have been funded by the EU.
For example, the current centre under construction next to and in support of BAE Salmesbury is largely funded by the “European Regional Development Fund”. The EU targets this money at economically under performing regions such as NW England to improve output and outcomes.
I doubt very much that this investment will continue under U.K. government, setting manufacturing back further. Even more worrying is that if public investment is made, it’s likely to centre on well performing and low risk areas such as Cambridge and Oxford.
I’m sorry, did we not sell to those markets before now?
Every time when I've seen someone saying about these 'new' markets I've asked them to name the countries - not a single time as anyone come up with one.
Maybe because when I ask them, I also tell them that I'm interested as I've worked in many, many countries for UK companies and I'm curious whether I've worked there 🙂
Really not sure why you feel insulted by the suggestion that UK will be able to do some things outside the EU which it couldn’t before, it’s just a simple fact.
What things are they? Because if you can't name any then your "simple fact" can be dismissed with "no it isn't" without further discussion.
I suppose we could be invaded by Germany again. That's new in my lifetime, been a while.
As for rebuilding industry, the suggestion that it’s
notpossible is plainly ridiculous,
FTFY. If it were remotely possible then we'd have done it already.
If we don’t have enough engineers or scientists then let’s train them.
So if it's that simple, why weren't we doing that already?
"Let's" is a great word, isn't it. "Let's" do this, "let's" do that. We've seen this movie before though haven't we, anyone got a spare big red bus to hand?
In other news,
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/british-flights-spain-heathrow-barred-brexit-b657549.html
This thread is an echo chamber of negativity.
Only because the alternative viewpoint is presented in high quality contributions like this one.
In reality there is no reason to even discuss economic "benefits" or the far more likely negatives.
Yes, there'll be the odd individual/company that will find a niche and make a bit of money, the mega rich will, well, you know...
Let's face it, yes, I know most of us have... Brexit has got nothing to do with money for the vast majority that voted for it but everything to do with animosity towards foreigners, particularly if the skin colour doesn't suite.
That it, economics was nothing to do with it. I don't even think the economic lies were even needed to convince most Leavers. The "promise" to stop immigration was all that was needed.
Every time when I’ve seen someone saying about these ‘new’ markets I’ve asked them to name the countries – not a single time as anyone come up with one.
Oh, no, there's a grain of truth in this one.
We struck a deal with half a dozen African countries back under May's reich. Four of which we already had a deal with and all of which are developing nations.
(There may be holes in this post, it was a while back and I don't care sufficiently to check, but it's at least broadly accurate.)
Bugger, I forgot that I was actually trying to change my focus from poxy Brexit!
The utter lunacy just pulls me in every time.😕
This thread is an echo chamber of negativity.
I hope you are all enjoying it.
Classic projection? Is it difficult for you to imagine that someone can’t be
1. Enjoying this?
and/or
2. Motivated to comment by anything other than spite?
The best thing you could do here (as a believer?) would be to give hope and list the positives. Make the argument. Break the ‘echo’. So…?
I completely understand why you and others are unhappy about Brexit. Sometimes things don’t always go your way. There was a Referendum (remember?), and then we had two general elections, and guess what?
Please understand I mean no malice, or take no pleasure in your discomfort. I merely express a different point of view.
The negativity in this thread does a disservice to the British people and their time honoured resilience and resolve. Be positive, and look forward to a bright future.
You missed the relevant point in the post you quoted though, genuinely, tell us what you believe the positives to be?
You must have some as you are upbeat about Brexit. So you either just "feel" there are positives in an emotional manner or have actual opinions,facts, to back them up?
I'm totally genuine with no sarcasm here, I'd actually like to know what you think the positives are?
I just don't see belief and patriotism having much of an impact on national economics.
I am desperate to be proven wrong over my opinions on Brexit in truth!
Be positive, and look forward to a bright future
Specifics please - what are the things you'd like us to be positive about?
The negativity in this thread does a disservice to the British people and their time honoured resilience and resolve.
What about the millions of people who live here that aren’t British? The ones I know have more resilience and resolve than most people. And contribute more willing to our society than many. Positive people in the main.
I completely understand why you and others are unhappy about Brexit. Sometimes things don’t always go your way.
^ Totally failed to understand. Still projecting the ‘sore loser’ argument. Rinse, repeat.
Again, the best thing you could do here now would be to list the positives and outline what is now ‘brighter’ about the future of the UK?
(Preferably in our lifetimes and in the realms of our children’s medium-term prospects compared to how they were)
thatscold
Free MemberI completely understand why you and others are unhappy about Brexit. Sometimes things don’t always go your way.
[Morgan Freeman Voice] In fact, he didn't completely understand why I and others were unhappy about brexit
It Sunday night. I have work tomorrow so have to call it a day.
Enjoyed the banter.
Good night, sleep well.
so no answer then to what the positives are?
Be positive, and look forward to a bright future.
Blind optimism and British exceptionalism, that will sort it. Tally ho chaps! Empire 2.0 here we come!
So no specifics then, just banter and belief (hope??). I’d better warn my kids to work harder in these areas.
The positives are its a Sunday night.
Thats about all that is positive for Brexit this week.