[Closed] Breaking the cycle of not communicating

go to relate on your own if neccessary. It just might help. If I'd realised how things were going in my marriage...
Don't leave it too late.

Why d'you think she refuses to talk? Perhaps your manner is such that she feels she can't talk to you? You seem to be indimitating her to the point where she locks down.

You can't force people to talk. They have to want to talk to you. This means they need to feel comfortable with it.

tell her you are going to book councilling, book councilling and tell her when it is, and it would be good if she turned up?

turn up and hope she does too?

mmm, tough one.
Does she know the impact of her behaviour?
Have you had the "If this doesn't change then this will be the end of us" chat.
Have you had a good look at your behaviour? And I mean a really honest look.

I reckon the first stop should be relate for some proper considered and balanced advice as bassspine said go on your own initially if needs be.

This might sound a bit harsh but is the relationship worth saving? I know you mentioned the kids but you didn't say anything about the adults. It might be that separated but happy and loving parents are better than a couple that live together in resentment and bitterness.

Sorry if that is harsh and i genuinely wish you all the luck in the world sorting this out.

mines doing exactly the same 🙁

Handcuffs. Spanking.

To be honest I think it'll do me good to do the relate thing even if she doesn't go. I'm feeling like a shadow of my former self. I now find myself not wanting to broach simple things because of the reaction I know will come. I've tried every which way but nothing seems to work. I can undestand about you saying I might be intimidating to her, but I can't see how to broach things differently. Originally if we fell out I would want to discuss then and there and clear the air. I now let her take time to come to me and discuss it in her own time, but as mentioned before she just blanks me for a few days and then pretends that nothing happened.

I even resorted to texting at one point so she could take it in and repond when she way ready without the face to face if that made it easier. After pouring my heart out basically saying how things are going to end up unless we get help.......

5 hours later I get a text back.......

"Can you bring some Milk in on your way home"

[i]"Can you bring some Milk in on your way home"[/i]

ouch....I'd be considering leaving at that point TBH, sorry, If it's got to the point of having that sort of communicating via a text...

Are there any children? If not - I don't much see the point in carrying on with it, TBH...

Unless of course, the S&M works.

Weekend away without the kids, change of scenery, time for just you to talk to each other?

No help whatsoever, but from the OP "plumpeting" is my new favourite made up word

Sounds like she has issues with her feelings, as in talking about them or expressing them, and that translates to blanking you and refusing to talk. Is there anything else which could be going on which could be affecting things eg. health problems,resentment about something etc.etc.

I quite like Woppit's suggestion but realistically, if she won't talk to you then some sort of counselling appears to be the best option unless you have a mutual friend, relative or someone else who could act as a bridge/go-between.

I've tried every which way but nothing seems to work. I can undestand about you saying I might be intimidating to her, but I can't see how to broach things differently.

Relate on your own then.

There's something else going on, I think.

If she won't talk there's nowhere to take it. Try, but if one of you isn't being honest, you're basically knackered.

Thisisnotaspoon... feeling for you fella. Torturous.

2 young children. Nearly 4 & 2. The prospect of not waking up with them everyday is the only thing keeping me from throwing in the towel now.

Lol at Steve-G. Not quite what I meant but I think I like my version better

Ok, any new kids, i'm thinking post natal depression to be that messed up. Or any history of depression.

"Can you bring some Milk in on your way home"

Is sooo out of line, that could well be a deal breaker.

Sorry, are you sleeping together?
Can she be seeing someone else? any recent change in behaviour.
Maybe she wants to end it but has no balls.
Sorry man, this sounds a nightmare.

speak to relate, or a mutual friend but also work out a few plans of what you will do if A,B or C happens, with timelines. Unfortunately waiting for her to decide your future can be a very hard thing to do, for you. If you get stressed or depressed it could have an effect on your relationship with your children, friends or work or health. If she does need help you have to be healthy to help her.

If you work out different plans, but try to be as nice and compassionate as possible, you will be controlling what happens to you again. Even if it's more of the same until she comes round you will be better equip to deal with it.

All just my opinion but all the best.

Are there any children? If not - I don't much see the point in carrying on with it, TBH...

I don't usually agree with MrW, but this is exactly what I was going to say.

At least "spend some time apart". In future you might think it's the best thing you ever did.

Try and guess what might be making her feel sad, stressed, rejected, threatened?

sorry molgrips, my (now removed) comment, was uncalled for.

What I meant was, keep trying to guess...

Mrs Grips sometimes has episodes of depression. I used to try and get her to tell me what's wrong, now I just let her be and continue to be as nice as I can. Doesn't happen a lot nowadays though.

Not saying that is how things should be with you of course.

Maybe she wants to end it but has no balls

This is basically what has been on my mind. I actually set my self a time limit that if we weren't on track within 6 months i'd walk. I think that was about 10 months ago now.

I'm not liking the person I'm becoming because of all this. Resentment is buildinig confidence is "Plumpeting" and I know the kids will start to take in my behaviour at some point.

If you are not happy get out, things never get better. Look after number one or you will be of no use to anyone.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, just plenty of friends (plus me) have been in a similar situation. Bitterness and resentment can ruin a man. I know first hand.

There's not talking and then there's being heartless. OK so she doesn't like talking, right. so sending that text message? what's that about then. Any normal person would understand the hurt and confusion a reply like that would cause.

So two options; she genuinely doesn't understand that her behaviour is wrong, she needs medical help, or she understands fully, but doesn't want to do anything about it. still wrong but potentially dangerous to you and kids, leave with them and go to your parents.

I actually set my self a time limit that if we weren't on track within 6 months i'd walk.

I think you need to make this express. Ultimately, you need to make it clear that there will have to be a deadline.

But, also tell her that you want to resolve it in the best way for everyone - and you have to be open-minded as to what that may mean. Of course, that doesn't mean you should give up now...

And, if you're going to go to Relate (or wherever) on your own, make a point of repeating that you would like to go together but if she won't go, you'll have to go alone to see if there is anything you can learn to help you and her.

I've had a similar experience where Mrs North just wouldn't speak to me, though clearly she had something huge on her mind. Eventually, it came to a head and we found ourselves at a crossroads. We chose to stick together. When she then had a breakdown a year or so later, we knew just how close we were for me to look after her. She's now looking after me....

My experience of such things is limited I'll admit but one thing I'd remind you of is that kids are a lot more resiliant than you relaise, especially at such a young age. If this is beyond repair, you'll do them more harm in the long term by sticking it out for their benefit.

Unfortunately, from what you've said, it sounds like she's trying to drive you away rather than just not communicating. Hopwever, it's not my place to suggest whether this is recoverable or not.

Just don't stick it out for the kids.

I can't think of anything worse than if my missus started behaving this way.

Can't offer any wisdome but if you are in southampton area and fancy having a beer and talking at me about it (I am no expert in relationships!) just let me know.

This sounds very, very familiar - don't know what the root of the situation is with you and mine was pretty well aired here in the past (albeit under a different username). I pretty much had the same for 3 years all in, with a particularly traumatic time a couple of years back making the whole thing even harder for the last 18 months of the relationship. I went down hill fast after that in what sounds like a similar way to you have. I never quite hit the stage of topping myself, but I had started looking at joining the Foreign Legion... which is not far off the same thing really.

I don't have any sage advice for you beyond "accept it and move on". I did, and it was absolutely the right thing to do - and I say that kids or not (I didn't know that my ex was expecting at the time, it makes no difference though, either the child has a father happy, alive but elsewhere - or it doesn't have one... at the end of the day option 1 is always better).

Things like this can take you to some very dark places - I spent a long time drinking to forget - and succeeding quite often. Once things start going downhill like that they accelerate and you can get into some very bad places very, very fast.

Hope you make it through to the other side, by whatever means.

YOu need to establish why she is behaving like this

However I would suggest a relate session on your own if she won't go, to get it clear that you are behaving in a reasonable manner.

Then its ultimatum to her. [b]Help you[/b] to find a way forward or its all over.

I suspect that there is something from her point of view that you are not seeing. You need to find out what. However unless she wants to work to save the marriage its doomed IMHO

Good luck

I even resorted to texting at one point.......

I haven't read all the posts but if no one has mentioned it, can I just say that I very much get the impression that you might be trying too hard. Don't.

If she knows you well, and I assume that she does, then she knows what to expect from you. That will make her feel both safe and reassured, and give her no reason for changing her attitude. BE DIFFERENT! Do things which she does not expect you to do. Don't chase her, it probably irritates her anyway and makes her hate you. Although ironically, she would probably panic and feel that she was no longer in control of the situation if you ignored her.

Don't be mean to her though. Be loving, happy, cheerfully, and fun to be with. Just do things differently. It will both intrigue her, and make her want you.

I know that life/relationships [i][b]shouldn't[/i][/b] be a game, but unfortunately it often is, do not always act as your heart tells you.

Finally, as others have mentioned, get in touch with Relate, even if you go on your own. And get proper advice from a professional, instead of from some random strangers on the internet. Good luck.

Cheers everyone. I'll definately do the relate route, even if it is just me. To be honest though i'm deflated now and not sure how much fight I have left in me. It feels like i've been making excuses for her behaviour for that long that I don't know where to draw the line now.

I don't doubt for a second that i've probably got a hand in whatever issues she has but without talking about it I don't know what else to do. I'm certainly not perfect but there only seems to one of us trying.

To be honest i'm quite surprised about the way you reacted to the "Milk" text. I think i've given her so much leeway, because of her inabilty to communicate, that i've lost perspective. At the time I was mad but didn't even mention this to her because I felt I was partly wrong to text her in the first place. I guess when you try to talk someone who won't respond you ultimately start to question your own actions

Some people are predisposed to just shut down when they are upset I guess.

My gut reaction when I saw the milk comment was that you should tell her to take a hike. However it's obvious you're keen to keep trying, so good luck. I've no idea what the answer is (sorry) but hope it works out for you.

Ernie I don't doubt that i'm trying to hard, but i'm trying for us both at the moment. I've tried to not force issues with her but then they just get ignored. Thats were the resentment has come from.

Its hard to come across loving, cheerful, happy and fun when your feeling so low yourself.

[i] It will both intrigue her, and make her want you.[/i]

Sorry but I think this is nonsense. Cleary the op's wife has some reason to resent him and the longer this goes on then the worse it will get. It won't be solved by playing daft games that worked for someone in a movie.

Good luck, you really need to resolve this only you and your wife know how to do that.

At the time I was mad ......

So it almost certainly had the desired effect then.

Ease off, don't get too hung up on "talking". Sure, good communication is vital, but it can be overstated........talking endlessly for hours won't necessarily make things better, it can actually make things get heavier. Lighten up. Do things with the kids. Try and have fun. And get proper advise.

EDIT : [i]"Its hard to come across loving, cheerful, happy and fun when your feeling so low yourself."[/i]

Yup, it ain't easy. But the present situation clearly isn't working out. I suggest you try doing things a little different.

Ernie I think you have the wrong end of the stick. Were not talking for hours. Were not talking fullstop. As soon as a discussion goes a way she doesn't agree with she shuts down. You can't compromise on a matter if one person refuses to talk.
Your right communcation is vital. At the moment it's at nil. I'd accept anything more than that

As per TJ, something you have missed or are missing and haven't realised I would say. BIG in her mind, not something you would really think about perhaps and not your fault. Something about your communication or lack of. Thought I might answer whilst googling turbo trainers.Hope that may be helpful to you.

Another one for talking to relate yourself and also a bit of what ernie said - don't push too much. guys like to go round identifying problems and then fixing them which can make 'tallking' difficult as it can turn in to problem solving rather than communicating. The relate stuff might be able to help you work out how to listen and talk when the time comes.

If you don't go down that route then two top tips would be

1. Listen for 10 mins without replying so that you don't end up getting in to the same cycle as normal. Don't say a word. In fact don't say anything until the next day

2. Remember that the one thing she is completely right about is how she feels, even if you think that she shouldn't feel a certain way. The fact is that she does even if it is illogical and you are looking to change the situation rather than how she feels about it.

Life with young children is horribly tough and incredibly more so if she is a stay at home mum. Daily life (milk) can dominate your life. As your post suggested, try to break the cycle before trying to solve the problems

Good luck. This is possibly the only time on here that breaking cycles is acceptable 🙂

*little bit of roleplay here*

If she were talking to friends on mumsnet, what might she be saying?

Sorry I've only just seen this gravity : [i]"Ernie I think you have the wrong end of the stick"[/i]

I'm actually not trying to get [i]any[/i] end of the stick - hopefully. From where I am, I have absolutely no idea how you are behaving or how things are. And neither do I want to know - that's for you to discuss properly with a Relate counsellor.

I am simply suggesting that in the meantime you do things differently. Do not let her predict how you will react. You might not want to play a game, but she almost certainly is playing one with you, eg, her "not talking" to you is far more likely to be for effect, than because it is a "practical thing" to do.

So change the way you react, so that she doesn't know the rules any more, she might discover that she doesn't want to play any more. Don't be predictable. But be nice. And above all, don't get all heavy with her, putting pressure, demanding solutions, etc. Give her space, it's probably what she craves most right now.

Leave any possible heavy stuff for after you've spoken to a Relate counsellor.

I know just how difficult it can be, but try to be happy......happiness tends to rub off on those near us. Obviously [b][i]don't[/i][/b] do it in a way which makes her feel that you don't care - reassure her that you care deeply. Don't get heavy. I know it's a lot to ask for.

Be very wary of the 'blanking'. Make sure that is what is happening. You might actually be dead like Bruce Willis was in that film.

I guess that doesn't help. Sorry.

I would be going for the "if you're going to carry on blanking me there's no point in us being together" approach. A wee kick up the bum like that might just make her see sense.

A risky strategy Zulu but it doesn't sound like the OP has much to lose at this stage 😐

To be honest I don't think she's playing games. More likely it's an emotional thing. It's not like it's intense 24/7. Generally we plod along relatively happy. I always have in the back of mind how she reacts though so for the most I simply don't broach things. But when I do try to talk the shutters come down.
I know we have problems in other parts of the relationship but if we can't actually talk we never get over any of these hurdles. They just stack up one after the other until it gets to the point were you can't see the light anymore.

The biggest problem is communication. Without that I can't see how anything else can be resolved. I've tried so many angles and she actually admitted that she doesn't like to talk about the issue then and there. Ok I thought despite it being against my rational and without compromise I'll do things her way. That's where we are now. She blanks off, I leave her to come round when she's ready to talk. That time never comes

Would it be possible for you to get away for a couple of days together without the kids? A change of environment with none of the usual daily duties might make it easier to bring things out in the open for good or bad.

Hard one and you have my sympathy. Relate could be useful for you because from your posts it's clearly having a major impact on how you feel and are acting, as in you are not acting naturally as you are 'scared' of the response. As you say communication is king and when one party is not communicating it's hard. From the length of time you say it's been going on then I would be of the view that she either sh its or gets off the pot and that you do to. Its clear there is something 'else'. If we were on MN i'd be advising you to check her phone, install a GPS up her jacksie and put a keylogger on the PC at home 😀 However all i can say is you need to work through the impact it's having on you via Relate, she can front up and join you if she thinks the marriage is worth saving or you can simply throw the towel in and walk away from it. With kids you just have to be sure that you are doing whats right for YOU first and they will respond to your signals. Best of luck though and a bike ride might help clear your mind.

but she almost certainly is playing one with you, eg, her "not talking" to you is far more likely to be for effect, than because it is a "practical thing" to do.

I don't think that would be the case. Seems to me that she is having trouble dealing with her own emotions. Something upsets her and sends her into a depressed spiral where nothing is right (see previous threads on depression on here) and then she won't or can't talk . Then when she recovers she forgets completely, pushes it out of her mind subconsciously and only you remember.

Best thing for you to do in that situation would be try and forget it yourself. Remember that depressed people are not really themselves. It's just their brain chemistry taking over - much like someone in an alcoholic blackout or high on some drug.

Can I just throw a couple of words at you in the hope that it may be the problem? Self-esteem, or specifically, lack of it.

You have two very young children and that in itself is hard work. I don't believe that many women are genuinely 'earth mother' types who can sail through child-rearing in one big smiley stratosphere.

Dare I suggest that a lack of self-esteem is stopping her from opening up her feelings/emotions for fear of ridicule?

Hope it's not true but you wouldn't be the first...

How long has she been [s]shagging someone else[/s] like this?
Three rules of break up:

There is always another bloke.
There is always another bloke.
There is always another bloke.

Sometimes after the other bloke comes along she decides to withdraw and wait for you to blow up so she can then leave and keep face. She might not even want that other bloke any more but the deed is done.

Sorry, but you asked our opinion.

midlifecrashes - you're single, right? 🙄

Jeeez Midlifecrashes. I thought i was being a ****ing idiot!

It sounds like depression is a very distinct possibility. Any other changes to the way she behaves apart from how she relates to you?

If it's that, your decision becomes different - whether you want to commit to supporting someone who is ill.

Think professional help - with no guaranteed outcome. You could visit your GP, by yourself if necessary, as a starting point.

Good luck to you both.

How is she in company?

Midlifecrashes, ever wonder why there [i]might[/i] be another bloke*...

*Other reasons for breakup are available

Why are more than a couple of people going off on one about pickng some milk up from the shops?

Dare I suggest that a lack of self-esteem is stopping her from opening up her feelings/emotions for fear of ridicule?

Good call. But again, depression causes lack of self esteem.

No, not single. A 45 year old bloke who's been to loads of stags, weddings, christenings, divorce house moves, second weddings etc and watched the cycle in loads of people close to me. Some relationships might last forever. Lots don't. I haven't seen one yet where things got bad enough for one side asked for outside help or even mentioned that things were rocky and there wasn't someone else involved. When you talk to people after all the dust settles there's often a pattern, and it goes a bit like this (sorry for the cut & paste, but that's how it was described to me)

#

They push men for commitment
#

They get what they want
#

They lose interest in sex
#

They become attracted to someone else
#

They start cheating
#

They become angry and resentful
#

They begin telling their partners that they need time apart
#

They blame their partners for their behavior...and eventually, after making themselves and everyone around them miserable for an indefinite, but usually, long period of time, they end their relationships or marriages.

Yes, other reasons for breakdown are available including health issues like depression and self esteem issues, and I've seen similar where both money and acute illness troubles were being hidden from a partner too, but IME they are the exception rather than the rule, and I gave my opinion based on the feeling in the OP. I genuinely hope you can get the the bottom of it soon, and can work it through from there, whatever the cause, and if I have been a ****ing idiot, sorry.

depression can sometimes cause lack of self esteem.

I've changed that molgrips. I've had huge self-esteem issues since I was a child but it didn't cause depression.

midlifecrashes - nobody is claiming we live in a perfect world. Your original comment was a tad insensitive imo.

😯

I think I'm glad I don't have to socialise with the people you hang out with, they don't sound very nice.

FWIW it most definitely does NOT sound like the OP's OH is cheating, to me. Far from it.

I've had huge self-esteem issues since I was a child but it didn't cause depression.

You and about half of humankind, me included 🙂 I meant the other way around though - when depression gets its claws in your brain then self esteem is an alien concept altogether.

If she were talking to friends on mumsnet, what might she be saying?

Let's come at it from another angle. I have the opposite dynamic in my relationship. I am a fairly taciturn individual who takes refuge in sullen silence when things pan out in a way I don't like, for example on certain occasions when my other half wants to talk about Big Stuff.

I simply don't have the words for it. She thinks she does. If I don't think she wants to hear what I have to say, I clam up. I hate confrontation of any sort, absolutely cannot stand it, especially with a loved one. To me being argued at and not responding is preferable to going at it toe to toe.

I'd rather zip it than give her it all guns blazing like she gives it to me. Because if I did I don't think there would be no way back from that point.

Time is a good healer though and we usually kiss and make up after a day or two at most. I guess I ahve realised, and probably Mrs McDef has as well, that I would rather let the heat of the moment cool down and unpick things in a more reflective, retrospective way, usually by trying to defuse the situation in a humourous way.

I'm not saying that my way is the best way - far from it - but it might give you an idea of where your other half is coming from. She might not be playing a game - she might just get The Fear about conversations that turn into arguments, or have the potential to turn into arguments.

It must sort of work because we're coming up for ten years together and I'd say we were both pretty happy for the most part. Although I daresay mumsnet or other more women-centric portals on t'internet have their fair share of women complaining about the very situation I have just described... 🙄

Have you considered the very simple fact that she doesn't much care? What's with all the amatuer head shrink stuff?
If she can't see that the situation is going to change in that due to the youngsters being present and / or your financial situation it's highly unlikely that either of you can or will make other arrangements, she just can't be bothered arguing with you?
I do it with the gobshite at work. She shouts at me, I ignore her and carry on. Can't be atsed.
I still don't get why asking you to pick up some milk on the way home is so unforgiveable.

I even resorted to texting at one point so she could take it in and repond when she way ready without the face to face if that made it easier. After pouring my heart out basically saying how things are going to end up unless we get help.......
5 hours later I get a text back.......
"Can you bring some Milk in on your way home"

Sorry but it sounds to me like she doesn't care for your feelings at all if she is prepared to treat you this way and you would be better off out of it. She is working up to ending it I reckon and just doesn't have enough empathy/courage/decency to do it nicely (sorry again). I was in a position many many years ago of going to Relate on my own as partner didn't think there were any problems with the relationship, it was all me, he was happy being miserable, fighting constantly etc. They pretty much handed me leaflets on how to get divorced.

Good luck !

I think at this point i need to take control of the situation and as said go on my own if needs be. Ah well time will tell

Goods words from roper.

My advice would also be to ease off now - you have pushed her into a significant step. Don't push her further.

There are probably loads of other issues going on that you may not be recognising as contributing factors which is why professional counselling can help. For example, you have 2 pre-school children - has your wife given up work? Lost a 2nd income? [you say the cost of counselling is an issue]. Has she had a break from childcare in 4 years? Do you have extended family help with childcare? Are you working longer hours to compensate? Are you stressed about stuff yourself which is affecting how you respond to her? And so on...

psling. yeh most of the above. Lots of contributing factors but because she won't talk none of these factors ever gets resolved, they just build up.
We don't really have much of a support network around us as relatives live at a distance. Money is a bit tight but its not that bad to be honest. Certainly in a better position than a lot of others.
The sessions are £80 a pop and if your looking at multiple sessions then costs will mount up. To be honest I see it as £800 to make or break the relationship. Whatever the result £800 will be a drop in the ocean.
I'll go in to it open minded with a positive attitude, if she goes it'll be a start. If it doesn't work out at least I'll know I did everything I could to make things work for our family.

gravitysucks - Member

psling. yeh most of the above. Lots of contributing factors but[b] because she won't [/b]talk none of these factors ever gets resolved, they just build up.

Please remember I am not getting at you but you need to try to be a bit less judgemental. From her point of view there might be a very good reason why she [b]hasn't wanted to[/b] talk. Do remember that blame is not helpful and the causes will be multiple and from both sides.

What you need to do is discover how to move forward not apportion blame for the past.

Yep that'll be that contempt I mentioned. I know what your saying and I do need to look forward but when you've been banging your head against a wall for so long it still smarts for a bit afterwards.

I don't doubt they'll be things I need to change. My currant attitude is one borne out of frustration and hurt. I need to change this for my sake as much as ours.

Relate are very good - helped me out some yours back. Note that if the cost is seen as a factor, I'm pretty sure they will waive the fee.

Mention MumsNet on a tangent, maybe "I was on STW and they were talking about this site thats full of bitter women ranting about their husbants, I said it sounded like the reverse of STW"

Install keylogger, come back 24 hours later and find out what the problem is.

Devious TINAS

gravitysucks

I don't doubt they'll be things I need to change.

Tell her this.

She actually managed to talk a bit last night when I broached things. She basically admitted to not being happy but says she does want to work things out despite not really being confident that we can make things work.

Did you give her a big hug at this point?

TJ speaks good sense here btw (for a change 😉 .. seems to me she doesn't feel she can talk to you - perhaps because of how you approach such conversations? That was my problem for a while.