"BBC reporting that police officer died following the attack"
🙁
Terrible news. Just bravely doing his job, and probably had little thought, thanks and gratitude before today.
Damn. 🙁
To those talking about locking borders, internment, torture etc.
It didn't work in NI it just made a part of community more resentful. Just allowed for the Guilford 4 et al.
If you want more terrrorists then make their whole community out to be scum it always works!
If you say that most of the issue is coming from the middle east and is funded through petrol-chemical money are you willing to stop buying plastic and using petrol?
BBC reporting that police officer died following the attack
**** sake poor guy.
Newsthump sums it up.
[i][b]Don't give them the anger they want. Focus on the amazing job done by the public and emergency services. Don't look at the apparent carnage, look at the people rushing towards the unknown to help others. Make the story about the resilience of London and its citizens. They want your anger, they want your fury - and they want you to focus it on anyone different from you. Don't hand them an easy victory.[/b][/i]
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look at the people rushing towards the unknown to help others
Indeed. And fair play to Tory MP Tobias Ellwood who appears to have tried to save the officer.
RIP to a fallen colleague. The thin blue line just got thinner.
"Don't give them the anger they want. Focus on the amazing job done by the public and emergency services. Don't look at the apparent carnage, look at the people rushing towards the unknown to help others. Make the story about the resilience of London and its citizens. They want your anger, they want your fury - and they want you to focus it on anyone different from you. Don't hand them an easy victory."
This. The Terrorists want hate and mistrust aimed at 'their people'. The response needs to be to do the opposite.
Four dead. Such sad news.
UK terrorists seem mostly, well, a bit rubbish
52 died in the 7/7 attack, hardly rubbish.
Some absolute crap being spouted on this thread, people have been murdered today, shame on you.
Great post from Drac/Newsthump.
Indeed. And fair play to Tory MP Tobias Ellwood who appears to have tried to save the officer.
Agreed.
Four dead. Such sad news.
One of those was the attacker.
Yes BBC say Four Dead and TWENTY injured and in a "catastrophic" state.
Well done all those posters who laughed it off and who the Piss.
We know who you are, you have outed yourselves as tossers.
Find somewhere else to post your vitriol you pathetic individuals.
Home now, lots of armed police at Waterloo.
I think the point being made about the response to the attack vs other deaths today that will go unreported is that by focusing so much on incidents like this we don't take probably more preventable and likely deaths seriously enough. The other point being the bigger result for the perpetrator is the disruption, fear, diversion of resources to what intrinsically is a relatively minor incident in terms of those directly affected. Makes it worth some other loner having a go.
That said the trauma for those directly involved is horrific, hopefully not something that will become life defining but the more fuss made about it by people cashing in on the event (politicians and especially the media) the more likely it will.
I'd say my thoughts are with those involved but like 99.9% of the people watching this unfold saying so is meaningless words.
I think the point being made by others is to talk about it in a different thread or maybe just wait before discussing it.
From a friend via Facebook:
[i]4 People dead including the attacker. 20 Injured. The man in the car tried to continue the attack. Police officers returning from a commendation ceremony were involved. Search is continuing as whilst police believe only one individual involved, they are not being complacent.[/i]
"It took 5 to 10 mins for police to arrive"? Is that possible?
[url] http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39355940 [/url]
speaking that must have the additional police, there's plenty on duty in the immediate vicinity which today included a fairly senior officer who was a significant witness.
That's what I thought. The whole area is usually thick with Police.
bikebouy - MemberYes BBC say Four Dead and TWENTY injured and in a "catastrophic" state.
Well done all those posters who laughed it off and who the Piss.
We know who you are, you have outed yourselves as tossers.
Find somewhere else to post your vitriol you pathetic individuals.
Growing up it was the IRA, then that calmed down in time for the Soho bombings then a bit later it was 7/7. I know many people impacted by events in London and the surrounds.
Tomorrow the majority of the workers in Westminster will get up and go to work as normal. They will not want to think about what happened. Just like many of the tube commuters who probably won't want to think about traveling in a hundred year old tunnel under the river and the quality of the construction/maintenance but will still do it.
Using humour as a way to normalise the event to help you keep doing you day to day activities is not such a bad thing.
It is a sad event but unless you are directly impacted traumatising yourself by getting upset won't be good for your health.
Just read on yon Twittersphere that the murderer was a well-known radical. Not naming names as is not confirmed but if it was the guy then his [s]Twitter account[/s] multiple Twitter accounts appear to be suspended :-/
What does Radical mean (in this instance)? Radical about what?
Twitter saying it is Trevor Brooks, remember him ?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/35262460
Growing up it was the IRA
Growing up and being called a provo, a paddy, to **** off back to Ireland. and hearing general abuse for being of Irish decent really makes you feel welcome!
Labeling all Muslims as terrorists does no one any favours. In every group there are idiots, remember Jo Cox!
Deal with the idiots but don't white wash entire groups.
Radical = Extreme I think.
What does Radical mean (in this instance)? Radical about what?
spekkie, I used 'radical' here as a noun.
ie 'militant, zealot, extremist, fanatic, diehard'
*edit - obv won't detail any more as is not confirmed AFAIK
I'd be wary of "News Executive" they don't sound like a massively credible agency.
Given the surveillance of that area and the apparent number of police witnesses, I'm puzzled how there is any uncertainty about the number of attackers or the number of cars involved. Maybe it's just media reporting whatever anyone tells them rather than anything sourced from intelligence.
Given the surveillance of that area and the apparent number of police witnesses, I'm puzzled how there is any uncertainty about the number of attackers or the number of cars involved. Maybe it's just media reporting whatever anyone tells them rather than anything sourced from intelligence.
I would go with the police releasing facts once 100% certain, it does no favours to state something then have to retract it later. So i would say they know who was involved but won't say. Also the issue of getting next of kin etc informed first rather than having the The Sun or Mail knocking on the door!
"It took 5 to 10 mins for police to arrive"? Is that possible?
Very likely I would have thought, the Met police are stretched to their limits, and beyond. I frankly don't know how they cope, well I guess they don't really.
Photo just shown on the news looks a lot like the guy in the Twitter feeds on the previous page.
I think the tolerance of these preacher types will go down a tad.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/abu-izzadeen-london-terror-attacks-westminster-who-is-he-police-politicians-a7644626.html ]Independent 15 mins ago[/url]
*edit
The media are tripping over themselves wth?
Channel4 rowing back from the identification claim...
Apparently the original guy (him ^^^) is still in prison!
Using humour as a way to normalise the event to help you keep doing you day to day activities is not such a bad thing.
I have a dark humour always have but my job means it's even darker but there's a time and place. It's not on this thread and it's not now.
Oh great, now a convicted terrorist will make millions in compensation when he sues the news agencies for slander!
we are reaping what we sowed some time ago unfortunately.
[url= http://www.rferl.org/a/iran-coup-mossadegh-cia-60th-anniversary/25076552.html ]Iran 1953[/url]
Everyone has a sosie (look alike). Oh well
Only just heard about this. Thoughts go out to the families of the injured and dead. Kudos to all those members of the public and emergency services that helped. As others have already said concentrate on the good that was done in the aftermath, don't give in to what the perpetrators want.
Sadly 4 people dead, more seriously injured, quite a few traumatised for a long time, just like a re run of the ira conflicts in the late 70,s and onwards, life must go on or theyve won.
I have a dark humour always have but my job means it's even darker but there's a time and place. It's not on this thread and it's not now.
In your opinion, of course. Or are you the arbiter of taste here?
Actually yes he probably is. & a good thing too.
In your opinion, of course. Or are you the arbiter of taste her
Not just mine. Yes as I mod I am hence why we've edited some posts already.
In your opinion, of course. Or are you the arbiter of taste here?
See the words Moderator next to Drac's name, have a guess what they mean?
^what he said.
They'll have a damn good idea, but until they've processed witness statements and studied cctv in great depth, it would be inappropriate to make judgement, things might be missed, there may have been an accomplice around the corner that wasn't really noticed.
And if the initial police statement turns out to be wrong, they'd get crucified for being hasty, incompetent, etc.
Very sad news indeed.
Lets hope it was a lone individual and if not ,they find his cohorts quick sharp.
I can't believe that some people think this thread might be the place and time for humour.
WTF is wrong with people?
Yeah it's been a weird day down here. Coppers everywhere since mid afternoon, dozens out at Waterloo and London Bridge, it's such a shame that a person felt motivated to do this.
I must say this shift to using vehicles as weapons seems a threat that's hard to counter but as ever Londoners just go about their business as usual. I hope that, as someone said earlier, this doesn't taint a whole group over the actions of an obviously very troubled man.
Sad day, but it was always "when" not "whether"...
I walked that way yesterday at exactly the same time heading back to Waterloo, but in the main take a slightly different route, explaining to my wife that my walk typically involves passing at least three points with armed police - MOD, Horseguards and Duke of York steps - always a comfort factor
Visiting Parliament, security is a bit more discrete than some other places I visit - expect that'll change.
The sad fact is that many of the people on Westminster Bridge at that time of day are tourists.
Fortunately, this will just firm-up the greater public's resolve against these idiots
I feel pretty sorry for the MET having to guard these places with the lack of resources they have.
I'd be happy to see the RMP used to swell their numbers on the ground in these places, if that made them feel safer.
Visited London twice this year, as someone based in Belfast I was surprised by the amount of police presence I saw. It's far more than I see in Belfast and at least comparible with pre 1995 levels I would guess.
humour is one way of dealing with it, lashing out at those using humour is another. either can be distasteful to others. but thats life eh. 33 killed in Syria attack today, doesnt have its own thread
good work and reactions from many involved today, it wont change our collective direction, in future there will be time to be sad if you want just as there is a place for the darkest humour
this isnt a memorial thread its news and comment, keep it short of inciteful and carry on.
IMHO obvz
soobalias - Member33 killed in Syria attack today, doesnt have its own thread
So what stopped you starting a thread on the subject then?
The Press are often wrong in the first few hours after an event like this - there are a number of 9/11 conspiracies based around a "broken timeline" because things were reported before they happened, in truth it's a chaotic situation and offical press releases are often short and come slowly. 7/7 was the same, knee jerk stories of other attacks that didn't exist, some in London, some elsewhere, half truths and rumours spread like wildfire.
Be wary of any story or news flash that started "it's been reported" the credibility is so lacking they won't even put their name to it.
thepurist - MemberGiven the surveillance of that area and the apparent number of police witnesses, I'm puzzled how there is any uncertainty about the number of attackers or the number of cars involved.
Conflicting eyewitness reports seem to be at the heart of it, some people reported a white attacker, others a black attacker. Probably partly people seeing another person and thinking it was the attacker, partly people filling in gaps in their own recollection, and partly people deliberately making shit up.
That and they have to be cautious incase there are further attacks as it's really quite common. They don't mean necessary that the suspected additional attacker was at the same location.
And unfortunately the Donald wades in on twitter with a political attack quoting out of context.
My father just called, he's been told one of the victims was a women who he closely works with. 2 little girls and a husband left behind.
I can't believe that some people think this thread might be the place and time for humour.WTF is wrong with people?
Writing observations, assertions and comments within minutes/hours of events like this, is all the crassness that you need.
What's actually said is largely irrelevant.
No respectful reflection for a period - just straight into full-tilt commentary and arguments.
Yay internet.
And unfortunately the Donald wades in on twitter
Not that I wish to cut The Donald any slack, but it was his son. So he's a **** too it seems.
And unfortunately the Donald wades in on twitter with a political attack quoting out of context.
That's not Donald (who's opinion regrettably matters). It's one of his odious, entitled, i'm-in-charge-now-spawn so please ignore it. It just happens to have the same name for reasons of narcissism.
See the words Moderator next to Drac's name, have a guess what they mean?
He's slightly less up his arse than you are?
Nah! Way more. IMHO.
ffs
I guess that cctv on the bridge and surrounding area is comprehensive and will provide a good, if not harrrowing, account of what happened, however, officials can't fully release the details till they cover things like informing next of kin, checking for accomplices etc.
Unfortunately, random idiots waving knives and driving into people can't be predicted or prevented in advance...
Exactly right, which is why it's become a tactic encouraged by those driving such terrorist attacks, the 'lone wolf' attacker, motivated by hate-filled rhetoric, but with no direct links with any recognised groups.
It also has the effect of not giving those affected any specific target to direct their anger at, like the IRA, for example, so creating the unfortunate consequence of anger and hatred being aimed at those who happen to look like they might be involved, which results in a vicious circle of escalating tensions and violence between communities.
I was sat for an hour on the M5 near Taunton today after an incident involving multiple emergency vehicles, an air ambulance, and at the same time listening to the news reports on the radio; one event will barely get a mention, and I can only hope nobody was seriously injured, but in the unfortunate event anyone was, to those close to them the long-term effects will be just as devastating as those in London.
I also know there is a particular human trait, when faced with events that are of a scale that's difficult to comprehend to want to balance it with a dark and often almost malicious type of humour; this trait can easily be controlled, in public at least, it's just a shame that there are quite a few here who seem to lack the ability to display that control, their crass insensitivity does them no credit whatsoever.
But I guess we should expect nothing else.
I also know there is a particular human trait, when faced with events that are of a scale that's difficult to comprehend to want to balance it with a dark and often almost malicious type of humour; this trait can easily be controlled, in public at least, it's just a shame that there are quite a few here who seem to lack the ability to display that control, their crass insensitivity does them no credit whatsoever.
But I guess we should expect nothing else.
Sorry, but I really don't agree with that. Black humour is a perfectly reasonable way to approach death, that you don't agree with it doesn't mean it "does them no credit" - that's your opinion, no more, no less. I remember some very black humour being shared between my siblings, father and I last year when my mother died, it doesn't mean any lack of respect but rather one way that some of us deal with the subject.
Still, by all means get offended if you prefer. I will keep laughing at death and dying. It seems a lot healthier tbh.
copper on tele has just confirmed it is 'Muslim related terrorism'
It's a damn shame but it makes you realize how lucky we are... things like this are a regular occurence in many of the countries that have to live with the legacy of decisions made in our parliament, paid for by the taxes we have to pay.
Imagine having to flee your country with your family because of utter devastation caused by a conflict decided upon by men in suits half the world away.
The problem is conflict breeds conflict and hate breeds hate and despite the best efforts of a lot of good people, it doesn't seem to be slowing down.
Thoughts to all those affected, let's not let hate and fear divide us.
The problem is conflict breeds conflict and hate breeds hate and despite the best efforts of a lot of good people, it doesn't seem to be slowing down.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/20/wars-john-gray-conflict-peace
Apparently, you're so wrong - you're flat earth wrong Jive.
Which actually doesn't surprise me hahahah - given some of your other ideas. 😈 😛
But broadly, I agree with your sentiment.
I've just made the mistake of going onto twitter to check for updates and the posts from a certain political subsection of American society are horrendous in their misplaced venom and hatred towards muslims, there's one particular pic showing a woman wearing a headscarf obviously in shock walking past an injured person on the bridge being attended to and some of the comments directed at her are **** horrific, I thought that perhaps the hatred would be confined to a few posts but there are bloody hundreds of them.
Wtf is our so called all welcoming western society heading towards?
Actually somafunk, I'm a massive ****ing misanthrope, why there aren't more people killing each other and/or inciting genocide is often a genuine surprise to me - I mostly regard humans as barely evolved shit hurling chimpanzees, so I was expecting worse. The comments to me seem to be overwhelmingly defending the woman. Twitter seems reasonably sane right now.
A terrible event.
Also terrible because it will act as an "excuse" to spout hatred against Muslims in this country and abroad.
No-one wins in this.
Why don't they keep religion away from things like this, call the perpetrator a terrorist or an extremist or a radical or an idiot or whatever, but stop referring to religion or even ethnicity of the perpetrator. It would stop a lot of unnecessary tensions between innocent people in my view.
Firstly, my heartfelt sympathies go out to those, and the families of those, who were killed and injured today by the misguided and pointless acts of a very deranged individual.
However; the 'international terrorism' media speculation storm that is going on tonight is ridiculous. This is patently the act of an individual who has serious mental health issues. He may well have been influenced by religious fundamentalism, but as far as we know it is not a 'given'. Yes, his skin was brown. But the fact is: nobody in their right mind attempts an attack on the Palace of Westminster armed with a car and a knife. He may have considered himself a 'lone wolf', or martyr, or servant of whatever - if we are to believe what the mainstream press is gushing about. He may equally have just had a shit day, or lost his children owing to a crappy divorce, been evicted, lost his job, been high or pissed. We actually don't know.
I'm not defending him or his actions.
But I am definitely questioning the automatic assumption that this was a 'terrorist' act. Even more so, I am questioning the media's sensationalism, and the willingness of politicians to immediately jump on the band-wagon, before any facts are even known.
I do hope that I am proven wrong in my cynicism. It would be much easier to just attribute it to 'Terrorism'.
That's a very reasonable point votchy, but since the powers that be seem intent on blaming Muslims, why are they all allied with Saudi Arabia, who actively spread the most extreme forms of Islam globally?
Like I said, we're lucky, just look at what's happening in Iraq, Syria and Yemen...
Dark humour does have it's place, whether that's as a coping mechanism or something else. But the audience is crucial. Between family members after a death, or perhaps in a police/ambulance/fire brigade canteen after a traumatic incident, then fair enough. But you've no idea who's reading it on here, it's no more appropriate on a public forum than it is for me to do it at the scene of a fatal accident or something.
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JHJ, a gentle warning. I approve of your earlier sentiment and it was a kind thing to say, but if you turn this into a mouthpiece for one of your conspiracies I will ban you faster than you can say "makes you think."
</mod>