Forum menu
Not sure if trolling, but that definitely isn't the case.
...
What's your opinion of the Koran, then? Don't recall you being that vociferous in criticism.....
Unless I'm very much mistaken, TJ's point is that that's what Fundies believe rather than what TJ himself believes.
(Whether TF is a Fundie or not, I've no idea. I didn't know he had any religious views until the media started picking him apart over it.)
CaptainFlashheart - MemberWhat's your opinion of the Koran, then? Don't recall you being that vociferous in criticism.....
How many leaders of UK political parties are evangelical, fundamendalist muslims?
Not sure that matters. Would a Muslim politician (party leader or otherwise) have been grilled as Farron was?
Glad he is gone. Sorry, just not a fan of the ardently religious who have literal interpretations of their faith. Just smacks of lack of insight and a lack of an ability to adapt, innovative and rationalise. To believe what he appears to believe in the 21st century makes you the pariah and certainly not suitable for leading a modern mainstream secular and inclusive party.
LDs will disappear deeper into obscurity before they return as a meaningful third party. Counting the days.
CaptainFlashheart - MemberNot sure that matters.
It does matter when you're talking about the impact a party leader has. But just look at the "criticism" Sadiq Khan faced- could be wrong but I believe he's the most senior elected muslim in British history?
Hopefully he will soon be forgotten as another failed leader jumping ship, before the ship sinks.
Daffy - its not nonsense. Its what happened and yes I devour everything I can on politics from a number of sources including lib dem backers.
[quote=CaptainFlashheart ]Not sure that matters. Would a Muslim politician (party leadee or otherwise) have been grilled as Farron was?
I would assume they would be ; ask Zac cpt ask Zac.
there you go the express reporting on the BBC will that do ?
oldnpastit - Member
Loddrick - cos it says in the bible homosexuality is a sin and its the duty of every believer to kill homosexualsNot sure if trolling, but that definitely isn't the case.
Certainly is - Junkyard just quoted it. I have seen it in more extreme versions in other translations of the bible.
Hadn't seen/heard that interview before, thanks, Junky.
Still feel that Farron was unfairly grilled, mind you.
you need to do a lot more than hulr insults to negate the statementYou need to do a great deal of reading rather than spouting rubbish that you've heard from others
Everyone accepts they were tarnished by the coalition - remind us what the electorate did to them so its a wildly held view
Fell free to counter it
FWIW i think they get a hard time for it but the campaigning on no austerity and then enabling it and breaking their pledge meant they were judged ,rightly IMHO, as a big bunch of duplicitous principle free liars
i think he was in relation to to other prominent politicians with religious beliefs but i think it is fair game to grill them on it as it is Khan tbh because at some point, whatever their politics or religion, they will have some beliefs i fundamentally disagree with. I would like to know where this line is but yes it fell disproportionately on him.Still feel that Farron was unfairly grilled, mind you.
Cougar - farron is an evangelical and he has stated publicly "'Christianity is not a bit true. It's either wrong or utterly compellingly true"?
This is the evangelical position. that the bible is the word of god and 100% true
What's your opinion of the Koran, then? Don't recall you being that vociferous in criticism.....
Oh I'd be even more critical of that, but whenever that particular book is criticised, the banhammer seems to come down...
Everyone accepts they were tarnished by the coalition - remind us what the electorate did to them so its a wildly held viewFell free to counter it
FWIW i think they get a hard time for it but the campaigning on no austerity and then enabling it and breaking their pledge meant they were judged ,rightly IMHO, as a big bunch of duplicitous principle free liars
They were certainly tarnished. Whether they were fairly tarnished is another matter. I'm actually quite surprised at you here, JY.
They had a handful of seats compared to the Tories couple of hundred. They were a small fish in a big pond and had to choose their battles, they couldn't fight everything. Whether they chose those battles wisely is a matter of debate, as is how wise it was to enter the coalition in the first place. Perhaps they sought to temper the Tories from within; either way, it's certainly pretty irrefutable outside of Ninfanworld that the Tories were subsequently a bigger monster without then.
Oh I'd be even more critical of that, but whenever that particular book is criticised, the banhammer seems to come down...
Do you need your own #fact hashtag too?
Why are 'christians' so opposed to homosexuality anyway!?! They seem to be obsessed with it.
Explicitly mentioned in the bible as an "abomination" as such more serious than other sins. Given sex is to be between a married man and woman for the purpose of conception then homosexuality and gay sex clearly doesn't qualify. In 40 years of going to Church, Sunday School etc I have never ever heard any Christian suggesting homosexuals should be put to death. In fact homosexuality itself isn't really a big topic, recognising gay marriage as a marriage was more controversial with major demonstrations (500,000 plus) especially in France
Isn't that mostly OT stuff which most modern Christians handwave as an inconvenience these days (Creationists and other Fundies aside)?
I voted Lib Dem for 3 decades (ex 97) and donated to the party. They lost their way totally in the coalition with Clegg doing the opposite of what he said (no student fee increase, AV a "grubby little compromise") - the Party lost all credibility. The pro Europe thing has been a total flop
Cougar - farron is an evangelical and he has stated publicly "'Christianity is not a bit true. It's either wrong or utterly compellingly true"?
I wasn't aware of that, ta. TBH, I've argued similarly in the past when we've discussed "allegories" and cherry-picking. It's a dichotomy, at least his view there is logically consistent (even if his conclusion is less so).
Aside, I remember my first RE lesson at high school, our teacher said "either Jesus was who he said he was, or he was the greatest con artist who ever lived."
He is an evangelical. If you don't understand what that is and what that means, you won't see how different that is from pragmatic C of E or RC belief. Incompatible with being Liberal leader.
But again, look how Blair's religious certainty bled into unwarranted political certainty and the results...
I'm glad he's gone. He's the reason I didn't vote LIb dem.
Who's Tim Farron?
Very well thought of and apparently very able - but badly tarnished by the coalition and a carpetbagger in that she is married to another MP in a constituency a long way away but claims they both live in the constituency they represent
Seems a little unfair to call her a carpet bagger. (1) Duncan Hames lost his seat at the election so there is nothing to stop them both living in East Dumbartonshire if they chose to; (2) the term Carpet Bagger really refers to someone who has no connection with the seat whatsoever (but gets elected anyway as a safe seat). Jo was born and brought up in East Dumbartonshire; (3) Her husband lived in his constituency (and was a local councillor) for a number of years before getting elected (which was before they got married). Should she have resigned her seat as soon as she got married - like a dutiful 1950's wife? At no time have both been elected since they got married (although they both stood in 2015).
As far as I know all the names being suggested were ministers in the Coallition, so I don't see how that hinders her.
Great, another bloody election (albeit the libdem leadership) what is wrong with them all? No bloody staying power, referendums x2, leadership elections, general elections after 2 years???
Just bloody knuckle down you lot!
poly - IIRC an MP has to live in the seat they represent although this is often merely symbolic but how a married couple can claim to live hundreds of miles apart so they can both live in their own constituencies is more than a bit odd. I did not know she was born in the area tho nor that they didn't both serve at once tho I thought they did. so thanks for that
many politicians only pay lip service to the living in the constituency but this arrangement always appeared a bit dishonest to me
However she is highly thought of and capable.
He was becoming (had become) more of a story in the media than the policies he was trying to represent.
Every article, every interview; wanted to know about his views on homosexuality. I imagine it was probably becoming a talking point in LibDem HQ....
Does even know what irony is?I seem to be the subject of suspicion because of what I believe and who my faith is in.In which case we are kidding ourselves if we think we yet live in a tolerant, liberal society.
"either Jesus was who he said he was, or he was the greatest con artist who ever lived."
Or someone with mental issues and delusions of grandeur based on brainwashing in a primitive belief system.
Or an unlikely central figure in a work of fiction. Bit like Noddy or Batman...
Maybot s a committed Christian, but for her falling back on conservative Christian values would be "on form" although I do think she should have come under greater scrutiny for those beliefs and where they guided her.
Faron is the only one I can recall getting this level of scrutiny for being a Christian, but I do not think it was unfair against him, due to the natural conflict between liberalism and his faith.
Of course Blair was mocked for his faith later in his career, but he did seem to have a touch of the "David Ike's" about him, seeming to believe he was doing gods work bombing the shit out of the Middle East.
Mr Woppit - Member
Religious bigot fails to square his leadership of liberal values with his loathing of gay people.Don't let the door hit you on the way out...
Loathing of gay people? That must be why he consistently voted in favour of gay marriage and gay rights then.
Didn't he avoid most of those votes rather than supporting them? Iirc his voting record does not indicate support for LGBT rights but that he protected his own career by avoiding publicaly opossing them.
No they don't even have to live in the country http://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/members-faq-page2/#jump-link-14 certainly (at least) one of the candidates in my constituency didn't - interestingly that was the fact that made my wife's mind up.poly - IIRC an MP has to live in the seat they represent
Bearing in mind that they both spend 1/2 their "working" lives in Westminster its not as odd as it seems. Plenty of people work offshore or overseas for protracted periods, and indeed people I know who "live" somewhere very different from where the "work" - lodging there for 4 nights a week....but how a married couple can claim to live hundreds of miles apart so they can both live in their own constituencies is more than a bit odd.
They did both serve at once - I perhaps fumbled the wording I was trying to convey. Jo was an MP 2005-2015. Her now husband was elected in 2010-2015. However they didn't get married until 2011 so unless getting married should trigger a by-election. He didn't stand in 2017 so I am sure their domestic arrangements are somewhat simpler! [and I stand corrected because I previously implied he just lost his seat - but it was 2015]. Your criticism MIGHT have been valid if they had both been elected in 2015, in fact neither were.nor that they didn't both serve at once tho I thought they did.
There could be argument that having a personal belief system at odds with his politics makes him a very good politician - in having to de-invest himself from the liberal ideas he promotes means we can see he is being entirely selfless and doing it for others, even to his own detriment.
Kind of like Kant's idea that good acts only come from duty.
Maybot s a committed Christian
Saying it and acting it are 2 different things. I don't see her being very christian in her approach and attitude.
I think most tories would struggle to act in a Christian way as their priorities are skewed towards wealth and the wealthy.
I agree completely, I think there is little in common with the caring side of Christianity and conserve values, but it's practioners seem to believe their own brand of greed and hatred comes from Christian values.
Evangelical - I notice people here are using it when they really mean fundamentalist. Evangelical is really about spreading the word - in IT some use it as a title for people who encourage people to use a technology they are interested in.
As for the bible and homosexuality - its not mentioned in the New Testament which is what guides most Christians, love of all people is the prime rule here. Those Christians who do think homosexuality is wrong tend to take the view 'Hate the sin, love the sinner'. Obviously there is still the idea that it is a sin for many but no greater than any other sin and we all sin - obviously the idea that it is a sin is still an issue however churches in the UK are moving to pretty much complete acceptance of homosexuals, a number of vicars are openly gay, but they are meant to stay celibate.
Poly - thanks for the correction / knowledge. even if it means I must moderate my position 🙂
mudshark
a number of vicars are openly gay, but they are meant to stay celibate.
Hence Farrons " homosexuality is not a sin" but refusing to say if gay sex was a sin - weasel words
retro83 - Member
Mr Woppit - Member
Religious bigot fails to square his leadership of liberal values with his loathing of gay people.Don't let the door hit you on the way out...
Loathing of gay people? That must be why he consistently voted in favour of gay marriage and gay rights then.
Check his voting record - voted against on occasion and absented himself from crucial votes. Voted for allowing discrimination against gay folk
but how a married couple can claim to live hundreds of miles apart so they can both live in their own constituencies is more than a bit odd.
Bearing in mind that they both spend 1/2 their "working" lives in Westminster its not as odd as it seems. Plenty of people work offshore or overseas for protracted periods, and indeed people I know who "live" somewhere very different from where the "work" - lodging there for 4 nights a week.
My MP was raised and lived in the town, and continues to live here.
Her husband is a Welsh MP, who she met while at Westminster. He is from Wales and lives there.
As far as I know, from Monday to Thursday, while Parliament is in session, they live together in London. At weekends, they return to their constituencies. It's just the reverse of what most MPs do.
Loathing of gay people? That must be why he consistently voted in favour of gay marriage and gay rights then.
Check his voting record - voted against on occasion and absented himself from crucial votes. Voted for allowing discrimination against gay folk
This was the issue for me. His voting record doesn't match his words.
mudshark - Member
...As for the bible and homosexuality - its not mentioned in the New Testament which is what guides most Christians, love of all people is the prime rule here....
Aye, the Old Testament is pretty much a manual for genocide which we have been pretty good at while spreading civilisation and Christianity. It's a bit slack that we haven't burnt any witches lately.
I always thought the most important bit in the New Testament is love thy neighbour.
Aye, the Old Testament is pretty much a manual for genocide
and plenty of other completely irrelevant shit such as these classics;
You shall not plow with an ox and a donkey together.
You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together.
You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself
Oh, and don't go having gay sex now
Theresa May has a record of voting against or abstaining from equalities legislation, yet receives far less scrutiny than Farron.
She's a Tory.
He's supposed to be Liberal.
She's a Tory.He's supposed to be Liberal.
She's the Prime minister, and was Home Secretary, serving in a government that introduced same sex marriage.
Its not hypocritical for a tory to be illiberal. Its is for a liberal - hence the scrutiny
You shall not plow with an ox and a donkey together.
That is not what I would personally do, but if others wish to plow with oxen and donkeys, that is their choice and I fully respect it.