[Closed] Brazil F1 GP

I'm hoping Hamilton wins, Webber 3rd/4th and Alonso out of the points - that'll set it up nicely for a proper finale in Abu Dhabi. Interlagos is one of the proper old-school tracks too with none of that Tilke-ism, but that pit lane entry has always bothered me.

Should be a cracker, one of very few circuits worth getting up early/staying up late for. As long as Alonso and Vettel take each other out it'll be great. And I fancy a Renault driver on the box.

If you have to stay up late for the Brazilian GP, you're probably too young to be on this forum 😉

Can't see it being anything other than a Red Bull or Ferrari win. The tight infield should really favour Webber and Vettels car too. Can't see Hamilton challenging for the win so Hopefully Webber will come out of it leading the Championship going into the last round.
How much of an influence will Massa have on the result? Anti-clockwise track and he always goes well there.

If you have to stay up late for the Brazilian GP

If you have to stay up late for the Brazilian GP, you're probably too young to be on this forum

😀

F1 on BBC Sun 7 Nov 2010 15:10..

be be fair I have been know to have a power nap in the pm.

I don't mind who wins as long as its not a Red Bull!

Ideally both Red Bulls fall of, Alonso falls off - Massa Wins and Hamilton comes second! 😀

I don't care who wins, as long as they're not Spanish or driving a Ferrari or a Red Bull 😉

I really don't care who wins as long as it's good race

I dont care who wins so long as its not the safety car again

It would be nice to go into the final race with 3 or 4 drivers (sorry Jenson) all with a good chance of winning the championship

It has been a great year, bits of everything lets hope it has a great end.

Oh & the last bit of the lap is all about power & f-ducts 🙂

I had a dream last night that Alonso blew his engine in the race.

I wouldn't mind Webber winning it. I'll lose money on that bet, like, but i like him despite his recent indiscretions.

I'd love Hamilton to win it again, but I think it's a big big ask.

I had a dream lastnight that Hora blew Alonso. 😯
[img] [/img]

Yes, he was stroppy and kept on asking why I was giving bingo soo much attention when he was the one

you just love them numbered balls dontcha Mark...

😆

[img] [/img]

It's forecast to rain. Which could be fun, so long as they let the tyres down on the safety car.

t's forecast to rain. Which could be fun

It'll be fun as long as Charlie Whiting listens to Lewis rather than all the other namby pamby lighweight mincers

thepurist - Member

It'll be fun as long as Charlie Whiting listens to Lewis rather than all the other namby pamby lighweight mincers

"The light's good; I wanna stay out!"
🙂

That Hamilton wanting to get going in the heavy rain thing is just a load of puff and bluster. What would have happened when another car just went barreling into him, or he went barreling into another car, because visibility was zero? Hamilton is a great driver, but he doesn't have different powers of vision to other drivers. Charlie Whiting should continue using massive experience and good management skills (which include listening and thinking clearly).

Really looking forward to the race weekend. So much. It will be fight between Ferrari and Red Bull - can't see McLaren being able to improve their car enough to be right up there. I know they say they have updates to sort out their car over bumps, and all the rest of it, but they always say that.

If it rains it might roll the dice a bit and someone else might get a look in - Kubica could easily have a good race for example, or Rosberg maybe.

We'll see - I'm going for Webber and Vettel 1-2. In that order.

That Hamilton wanting to get going in the heavy rain thing is just a load of puff and bluster. What would have happened when another car just went barreling into him, or he went barreling into another car, because visibility was zero?

What F1 race was it now where everyone was going on (inc Hamilton) yet he recovered where others crashed out?

Didn't something similar happen with the bikes a few years ago, where the rain was atrocious and no-one wanted to go in. Eventually Rossi took control and made the decision that the race should have been halted. No Rossi, no racing!Far braver in my opinion than trying to BS that you can stay out longer.

That Hamilton wanting to get going in the heavy rain thing is just a load of puff and bluster.

Pretty much all 4 of the front runners were dramatising the conditions to suit their particular situation
Vettel probably knew his engine was very sick & was making a hell of a lot of comments [aimed at Charlie] about bad light etc. & wanting to have the race stopped
When questioned later, he just shrugged & indicated that he'd been wrong as others had clearly managed OK

What F1 race was it now where everyone was going on (inc Hamilton) yet he recovered where others crashed out?

Nurburgring '07?

It was germany wasn't it? Where they all slewed off at the first corner but Lewis managed to get it out of the gravel and carry on.

It was literally Carry on F1

For a bit of balance;

I'd like to see Vettel and Alonso battle for 1st, Massa in 3rd, with Webber and Hamilton taking each other out. Or getting over taken by everyone, and getting lapped. Twice.

🙂

Nah; I just want to see a good race, fair, but proper exciting.

This is probably Webber's only chance of ever getting the drivers' WC though, and Vettel is definitely a star for the future anyway. Be good to see what he's really got, now the pressure's on.

One thing I won't be doing, is crying like a little girl if the 'wrong' driver wins, unlike some of the children on here...

What F1 race was it now where everyone was going on (inc Hamilton) yet he recovered where others crashed out?

He is good, obviously. But he isn't in some sort of other world to all the others - they are all fantastic drivers. Hamilton's biggest characteristic is he take more risks, which in a sport which is intrinsically risk-averse stands out.

I hope Webber wins. I believe he can do it, I believe he is good enough, and I believe he deserves it. However, I said from word-go, before Bahrain, that Alonso was the best and will be most likely to win the Championship.

Webber gets my vote too, seems like a decent enough guy & it will almost certainly be his only chance. Jenson got his last year. The other three will be in positions to win for the next 10 years.

Webber for the win

If you want a proper dramatic wet GP go back to Monaco in the 80s - the one where Mansell took the lead and was comfortably pulling away from Prost, then drove over a white painted line and spun off leaving Prost in first but rapidly getting hauled in by a rookie in an uncompetitive car. Prost started gesticulating to the race director, trying to get the race stopped and the race was duly red flagged, with the rookie overtaking Prost just before the line. Prost got awarded the victory though because the rules said the places were counted from the last complete lap. The rookie got 2nd place - his name was Ayrton Senna.

Of more importance - who's going to take the inaugural STW Fantasy F1 title! Could be anyone of the top 15...

http://fantasyf1game.net/league/table/17074

Or a proper race in the wet - Senna at Donnington. He was god like at reading the conditions.

I'm sure Surf_Mat would be better 😉 Or would molgrips outdo him? Such a choice of driving Gods...

I stand corrected 🙂

One of the F1 sites is mooting the idea of Alonso taking a new engine & the resulting 10 place grid drop, now that would be interesting – you’d have to reckon on him getting up to at least 4th if he started from the 5th or 6th row around there
He’d also then have a fresh[ish] engine for Abu Dhabi

That would be Planet F1 then. An absolutely bonkers idea. Yes you can overtake at Brazil but not to that degree. If he stuck it on pole he would and was then put back to 11th he would have several cars in front of him that are at least as fast in a straight line as the Ferrari.

Near the end of the Korean race Vettel was bleating how dark it was and the race should be stopped immediately, with him in the lead.

Then his engine blew, and he scored no points.

Drivers only look out for themselves, all their talk should be taken with a pinch of salt.

I think all the drivers thought it was borderline. Maybe you are just weaving a narrative around too little information to build up a story that you had already formed in your mind. To call any voiced concern about safety "bleating" is just silly.

The skill of the race director is to stand to one side from that kind of mental process and make rational, objective decisions.

That would be Planet F1 then. An absolutely bonkers idea.

Is it totally bonkers?

A 10 place grid drop & then a good engine for Abu Dhabi or 2 very iffy engines? the Bulls won't be able to run their engines flat out.
If his engine goes in Brazil, he'll not score & he'll then take a 10 place drop in Abu Dhabi

Hamilton, Vettel and Button finished 3rd, 4th and 5th after starting 14th, 15th and 17th respectively last year at Interlagos, it's a place that favours the brave & Alonso has that by the bucket full
He also has a trained pet poodle in Massa who could go very racy for qualifying & try to hold up the McBulls

I'm not so sure it's that bonkers, a bit left field maybe, but not totally bonkers

I'd say it was a fairly mad idea. The last place you want to be into the first corner in Brazil is mid-pack. I can't recall a start when there hasn't been some sort of incident at the start. It would be so easy to have a wing taken off or to pick up a puncture.

Far better to start as high as you can and the turn the wick down a bit on the engine. As we've seen so often in the past - its far easier to keep someone behind than it is to overtake.

IMO of course! 🙂

Depends on whether they think the engine will last. Better to start midpack and risk not finishing than start on a fubar'd engine that you know will pop.

Although Alonso's only got one new engine left, the rules say he can put any one of the older engines in the car with no penalty. He doesn't have to run with the engine that's just finished the last race.

I don't think it'll be a major issue really.

I didn't think Alonso had any new engines left?

Interlagos is very hard on engines. Since they changed Hockenheim I now think it has the longest full throttle section of any track - from Juncau all the way to braking for the Senna chicane so I can see why the theory of going for a new engine comes from.

But its still bonkers, Alonso will have 2 Red Bulls and 2 Mclarens, 2 Mercs, 1 Renault in front of him and will be surrounded by Force India's and other assorted midfield runners going into the first corner.

Its true that others have made a poor starting position work fro them in Brazil but none of them would have put themselves there by choice

Engines used

[img] [/img]

but none of them would have put themselves there by choice

But given that Abu Dhabi is awful for overtaking it's not necessarily as simple as that.

Hamilton or Webber for me, Alonso to crash out.

nickc

Alonso has no engines left!

First practice over...

...and Alonso pulls over to the side of the track to 'preserve his engine'!

Ferrari have also said they'll be swapping a lot of engines around this weekend between sessions!

Preserve it in landfill maybe. Sounded as sick as a parrot before he parked it up.

Have they bought a truck with all the engines in, just in case... 😉 Unlikely, but depending on your point of view, it'll either shoot the fox or liven things up if he has to take a 9th engine this weekend or next. Do you tactically take the hit and potentially have reliability from a 9th new unit, or fit a biffer for the last race and cross your fingers/roll the dice for the championship?

How has Nick Heidfeld used 9 engines already? He's only done 2 races!

I know that De La Rosa will be included in that count 😉 😉

[s]The car has the allocation, not the driver.[/s]

Damn your editting sir! 😉

Ferrari said before they started the session that that particular unit was beyond its design mileage and they were going to change it after FP1 - quite amazing really that they can predict when it will blow. They will e fitting another (used) engine for FP2, and I guess a different one again for tomorrow and the race.

Red Bull situation is fascinating. Vettel just can't help himself getting the fastest lap - he'll do another engine if he's not careful.

Wet for quali - real dice-shaker. Hopefully a completely topsy-turvy grid for Sunday. Come on MW!

Lol Bristol Biker 🙂

Hopefully Vettel and Alonso both kill their engines and Button falls off. Idealy I'd like Hamilton, Massa and Webber. Don't like Massa but it'll make Abu Dhabi exciting at least with Webber and Hamilton tied on 235 points and Aloosenso on 230. And before Fred goes on about the Hamilton fans complaining about Aloosenso I used to like him when he was at Renault before 2007. It was only when he came over to Mclaren and put them in the sh1t i went off him. Being a life time Mclaren fan I see drivers as once a Mclaren driver always a Mclaren driver. Like Raikkonen. Even winning for Ferrari I was supporting him.

Best season I can remember

Realistically it should now be a three horse race between Alonso, Webbo and Lewis but Vettel is still lurking in the background like a floater in Mark Webber's pint of Fosters.

Can't wait to see how it all plays out

gah - BBC practice commentary has had jackie stewart wittering on for about 20 minutes now....

Calm down, he's shuffled off now.... 😉

Qualy coming up and a wet track.

Bring it on!

And before Fred goes on about the Hamilton fans complaining about Aloosenso I used to like him when he was at Renault before 2007. It was only when he came over to Mclaren and put them in the sh1t i went off him.

Oh you mean when he threatened to 'grass up' McLaren for cheating? Alonso 'put them in the sh!t'? Really?

Fact is the British media love a villain, and Alonso was the perfect choice, as he was the foreigner upsetting the British applecart at McLaren. The vitriol aimed at him is simply bigotry and jingoism.

Alonso had every right to expect No 1 status at McLaren. I'd imagine he was pretty much promised this before he signed for them. Seems that Ron Dennis had other ideas, and wanted his protege as WC. Which, considering Alonso was 2 time WC and had beaten Schumacher to win, seems a bit daft. Surely it would've been better to back Alonso for the WC, and let Hamilton gain experience. As it turned out, McLaren ended up winning nowt and getting a massive fine. Dozy buggers.

Fact is the British media love a villain, and Alonso was the perfect choice, as he was the foreigner upsetting the British applecart at McLaren. The vitriol aimed at him is simply bigotry and jingoism.

😆

Alonso had every right to expect No 1 status at McLaren. I'd imagine he was pretty much promised this before he signed for them. Seems that Ron Dennis had other ideas, and wanted his protege as WC. Which, considering Alonso was 2 time WC and had beaten Schumacher to win, seems a bit daft. Surely it would've been better to back Alonso for the WC, and let Hamilton gain experience. As it turned out, McLaren ended up winning nowt and getting a massive fine. Dozy buggers.

And there was me thinking that Alonso wasn't expecting "the Rookie" to be as good as him. The pit box incident shows Alonso's true nature...couldn't let a "rookie" show him up now. Alonso is a brilliant driver, but he's now at the appropriate team.

Well said.

The pit box incident shows Alonso's true nature...

After Hamilton had disobeyed team orders to let Alonso past?

Don't kid yourselves that Hamilton's some goody-two-shoes British sportsman who'd never cheat. He lied to race officials in Australia, and has been penalised for several incidents such as blocking during qualifying, and the safety car incident this year in Valencia showed that he's as wily as anyone. He'll do what he can to get an advantage, as would any driver.

No, carry on with Alonso as your pantomime villain. I'm sure he's bothered.

😯

Hulkenberg!!!

What a result!

Hulkenberg by a second!

But Vettel, Webber and Alonso all together on the grid. The Senna S will be interesting on the first lap tomorrow

great session 🙂

Should have brought a smile to Frank's face.

But Vettel, Webber, [s]and[/s] Alonso, and Hamilton all together on the grid.

Corrected that for you! 🙂

We needed that after more redundancies were announced this week , knowing Frank he's probably sold nico already!

Don't kid yourselves that Hamilton's some goody-two-shoes British sportsman who'd never cheat. He lied to race officials in Australia, and has been penalised for several incidents such as blocking during qualifying, and the safety car incident this year in Valencia showed that he's as wily as anyone. He'll do what he can to get an advantage, as would any driver.

Which of course I never said otherwise. Just pointing out the rookie is as good as the champion. Certainly learned some lessons from him. Of course he's a champion now as well.

No, carry on with Alonso as your pantomime villain.

I wouldn't call him a pantomime villian...I'd call him a racing driver that along with all the other drivers on the grid have a single minded determination to succeed. It's just some throw their toys out of the pram when they can't get their own way.

I'm sure he's bothered.

The key point about Hungary was that he tried to blackmail mclaren into doing what he wanted. That for me is what I have found to be very negative about him, particularly since he was perfectly happy to be involved in the espionage and knew full well what was going on. As to it being reasonable to expect number one status that's patently wrong McLaren haven't historically worked that way, at least not to that extent and certainly not when one driver hasn't established superiority over the other.

Speaking as an ex-Alonso fan fwiw. Nothing to do with the media either. 🙄

It's just some throw their toys out of the pram when they can't get their own way.

Like Hamilton swearing at Ron Dennis, Hamilton moaning at his mechanics for not making the right tyre choice, whining whenever Button has been faster than him, etc.

[i]Anything you can do, I can do better....[/i]

I thought you weren't talking to me anymore?

Am I not? Dunno I can't remember. Who are you?

Does anyone else get the impression that Massa's heart isn't totally in it this weekend?

Home track where he always flies, home crowd that won't tolerate him bending over for Alonso, a local judge putting more pressure on him by saying he could be jailed if he takes a dive & Ferrari expecting him to sacrifice his position if needed.

Better off being a bit mediocre this weekend & staying well & truly away from the front 😆

Massa is a confidence driver don't reckon he's ever been great when up against a driver who's performing better than him.

The key point about Hungary was that he tried to blackmail mclaren into doing what he wanted.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Alonso#Controversies ]

Amid media allegations that Alonso threatened Dennis with reporting the team to FIA himself if he was not given number one driver status, Ron Dennis stated in a televised interview that there had been an argument, and that Alonso had said something in the heat of the moment but immediately apologised. This was when Dennis found out about Ferrari data and immediately informed the FIA.

So, Ron Dennis himself makes no such claim. IE, it's just media-generated vitriol against Alonso. Fact is, only Alonso and Ron Dennis really know what went on there, so any speculation is pointless. Perhaps if relations hadn't deteriorated between the two, then Alonso probbly would've won the DWC.

In the last few races, Alonso has shown himself to be a true great. Hamilton on the other hand has made mistakes under pressure, and shown that he's still got a lot to learn. Both are brilliant drivers though, and IMO, probably just a bit better than the rest. Cept maybe Vettel. Definitely better than yer Webber, Button etc.

Tomorrow is going to be fun...

So, Ron Dennis himself makes no such claim. IE, it's just media-generated vitriol against Alonso

So why did Alonso leave a team that could have given him more championships? If him and Ron had kissed and made up there's no way he would have spent 2 years stuck in the midfield back at Renault. No smoke without fire as they say.

No question that Alonso is a fantastic driver, one of the greatest. He's made plenty of mistakes too this year though but quite sensibly he's pointed out that they've all made mistakes this year because it's so close and there are/were so many drivers in contention.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/09/alonso-mistakes-ive-made-a-few/

Alonso did threaten McLaren withdrawn or not. He was also well aware and involved in the espionage. Enough for me to think less of him as a man. Similar for Lewis after various events fwiw though I can mitigate some ( the earlier ones ) to a small extent due to his relative youth/inexperience at the time.