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Fixed it for you, and seeing as response times make up a lot of the gap that we leave between cars, automatic systems are safer at closer distances.
Actually thinking/response time is about a quarter of stopping distance at 60mph on a dry road and about a ten on a wet road. So 'a lot' is stretching it.
Still a smelly pile of shite. Are you telling me a car that is tailgating but with ACC is safe? Or are you hanging on to the 'er' in safer deliberately? But as already said, I'd be amazed if any system would allow a car using ACC to run so close to another that it would constitute tailgating- even on an Audi 😉
If you want to police other drivers, then join the police force.
Must vary according to cars then. None of the cruise control settings on my car are anywhere near tailgating distance.
Mine gets pissed off and starts illuminating warnings on the dash if I get in the same county as the car in front. I very much doubt it would allow me to sit two foot off the bumper.
It might be true that reaction time is better, but most drivers can imagine a scenario where you don't just have to match the minimum braking time of the car in front, but actually do better. eg Car pulls out of side road, driver in front can't avoid hitting it. If you're too close to all that, no automatic system is going to keep you from joining in the fun.
It might be true that reaction time is better, but most drivers can imagine a scenario where you don’t just have to match the minimum braking time of the car in front, but actually do better. eg Car pulls out of side road, driver in front can’t avoid hitting it. If you’re too close to all that, no automatic system is going to keep you from joining in the fun.
Exactly. And that's exactly the sort of scenario why I care that I'm being tailgated, much to Jimmy's chagrin that that makes me a wannabe diy cop. My concern is less for me but for less experienced drivers intimated and put in extra danger by the knuckle draggers.
It wouldn’t suprise me if some of the smarter vehicles could combine that with rear facing sensors and he more likely to illuminate the brakes the closer the vehicle behind is.
I think my car (MG4) flashes red lights if a car is too close behind. Not had chance to find out yet, fortunately. It also has adaptive cruise control, which I set to the biggest gap - I'm not quite ready to completely hand over my life to a buggy car software.
too many people work on the basis that as long as you can hit the brakes in the time it takes to close the gap then you'll be OK. If all cars had the same braking capability that would be ok and you'd only need reaction time as a gap because you'd both effectively be braking then from the same point on the road. You'd end up with mm between you and them, but.....
And my reaction time is way better than 2s
Trouble is that we don't have the same braking capability - different cars, tyres, weights, etc. A top end sports car with track ready brakes will stop dead in comparison to a 20 year old MPV with 5 people in and shit tyres.
Or, the car in front hasn't left enough braking space and consequently nor have you. Or they hit a car coming out of a side road, or a moose, or.......
By that process, the 'safe' gap is really to be able to stop in the distance to the car in front, not just react in that time. But then we'd never get anywhere 'cos if you leave that gap to the car in front on any UK road you'll have four other cars pulling into that gap!
Actually thinking/response time is about a quarter of stopping distance at 60mph on a dry road and about a ten on a wet road.
The key word you've used is stopping distance. But the space between cars isn't for that, it's so if the car in front of you slows suddenly, you don't go into the back of it. In that case your reaction time (or pretty much immediate if it's on adaptive cruise control) makes up a far greater proportion of the distance needed.
It might be true that reaction time is better, but most drivers can imagine a scenario where you don’t just have to match the minimum braking time of the car in front, but actually do better. eg Car pulls out of side road, driver in front can’t avoid hitting it. If you’re too close to all that, no automatic system is going to keep you from joining in the fun.
Fair point, but unless you're leaving massive amounts of distance in front, then I think if something like that happens, you're hitting it anyway.
The key word you’ve used is stopping distance. But the space between cars isn’t for that, it’s so if the car in front of you slows suddenly, you don’t go into the back of it. In that case your reaction time (or pretty much immediate if it’s on adaptive cruise control) makes up a far greater proportion of the distance needed.
No it's not. It's for reacting and responding including a change of direction as per the section you quoted. You are way oversimplify to suit your argument. Which is wrong. Yes, we are never going to driving at complete stopping distances between vehicles but there is a reason why sane and sensible people made the recommended distances greater than just reaction time.
but unless you’re leaving massive amounts of distance in front, then I think if something like that happens, you’re hitting it anyway.
which is where the generally held rule of 'if you hit the car in front you were too close' sort of breaks down - I could easily have stopped if he'd just braked to a halt but he didn't, he stopped dead when he hit the lorry that came out of the side road without looking.
But as I said - leave that much gap and it won't be a gap for long.....
Fixed it for you, and seeing as response times make up a lot of the gap that we leave between cars, automatic systems are safer at closer distances.
And what about braking differentials between vehicles even the state of tyre wear, winters Vs summers.
Tailgating is a dick move
Brake checking rarely achieves anything and slowing down is no better than 50/50 although slowing down to very slow last night while being (I'm convinced unthinkingly) very closely tailgated (lost sight of headlights below my rear window) at 40 in a 40 did seem to get the message across and more importantly stop them driving erratically and very close.
When they eventually overtook they scorched off up the road at about 60.
The most disconcerting bit is someone who lacks the ultra basic skill to follow at a 2 seconds gap is then going up the road at 150% of the speed limit. 😬😬😬
I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong cos I've literally never had a problem with a tailgater that persisted beyond me slowing down until they overtook or backed off. I've been driving nearly 40 years, not a massive mileage but plenty enough if it was as common as some people seem to find.
And I'm not an extremely fast aggressive driver who tailgates other people either! I find the adaptive cruise control on my new car to be acceptable only when set for the longest gap, any closer I'm not comfortable with.
I’m wondering what I’m doing wrong cos I’ve literally never had a problem with a tailgater that persisted beyond me slowing down until they overtook or backed off. I’ve been driving nearly 40 years, not a massive mileage but plenty enough if it was as common as some people seem to find.
I think it might depend where you live. We used to live in Hampshire and beyond a few impatient twunts on motorways it wasn't an issue elsewhere. But now we live in the Highlands and we're shocked by the driving standards. Not on the minor single-track roads but the larger trunk roads (well Highland style trunk roads). Again, it's mostly not aggressive impatient drivers, although they do exist, it's the dullards who are just shite drivers. Maybe its because if you grew up in the area and never left it much you've not been blooded on more tricky driving and their skills have remained at barely beyond learner.
@Kramer perhaps, but then, I'd rather hit an immovable object at 15mph than 40. The trade off between distance and consequences is still worth it. Also, if you hang back a bit, you tend to spot this stuff earlier rather than just seeing what's on the parcel shelf of the car in front.
Computers might be able to react faster than humans, and with abs , stop the car before rear ending the car on front . However , there's another variable. Rubbish tyres . Don't matter how fast the computer is . If the car is equipped with the finest Chinese tyres from the likes of Triangle , Landsail , Woosung , or Aptny it's just not going to stop well.
Add in the zero maintenance aspect of 'as long as it's not flat at the bottom it will be at the correct pressure ' and the same across the axle , to ensure straight line braking.
So no , although acc is a newish thing , putting crap tyres on a diminishes the safety features.
Some interesting understandings of how adaptive cruise works.
No wonder so many people crash using driver aids
Anyone know if there’s a legal difference (UK) between a brake check (illegal I believe) and tapping the middle pedal with your left foot to flash the brake lights, but maintaining speed?
There's a simple way to get a definitive verdict from the finest judges in the land. Cheaper to just let it go though.
But now we live in the Highlands and we’re shocked by the driving standards. Not on the minor single-track roads but the larger trunk roads (well Highland style trunk roads). Again, it’s mostly not aggressive impatient drivers, although they do exist, it’s the dullards who are just shite drivers. Maybe its because if you grew up in the area and never left it much you’ve not been blooded on more tricky driving and their skills have remained at barely beyond learner.
Very true! Many a Shetlander is too scared to drive off island and can't seem to manage simple roundabout logistics, god help them with complex traffic light controlled junctions with boxes 🤣
Back to the OP. I tend to just drive as I need to and leave them to pass when they can. I'm not a particularly slow or hesitant driver so really there's no need to be tailgating me to get past, but still they do. I think some people just don't like to be behind anyone.
Think I'll upload the footage to the fuzz, I think the van also did a dangerous last second exit off the motorway onto the slip lane I was on, which is the point I had it on my bumper. So that's dangerous exit off motorway, tailgating, aggressive undertaking and more tailgating. Got to watch the footage first though..
I’m not asking if you think something is a d**k move in your opinion , I’m asking what the law would say.
On the basis that someone I worked with went to court & received a 12 month ban for causing an accident by brake checking someone, I'd be quite happy to conclude that the law wouldn't be on your side.
My son got brake cheked from 70 to about 10 mph, all because he beeped at a Jag driver who was cutting other drivers up as well has him. Basic dash cam footage submitted to cops by son, driver got points.
I find it very hard not to react to tailgaters, I usually just give them a what are you doing gesture and for them to pass, if they're close enough they get it, I know I should just ignore them but I can't but help to let them know I think what they're doing is dangerous.
Has anyone that submitted dash cam footage had to also give oral evidence or is just the footage that is used. I “think” I read on a portal for this that there was also a written agreement and submission of footage was conditional on the owner of the footage also happy/prepared to give evidence in person.
I’d imagine that this might put people off, if they have to face the opposing driver. Snitches get stitches etc etc.
So glad I drive a van with no rear window and a tow bar fitted. Get as close as you like.
Fair point, but unless you’re leaving massive amounts of distance in front, then I think if something like that happens, you’re hitting it anyway.
I drove past a 4 car pileup today. Someone getting CPR on lane 1 of the M4.
From what I could tell, car 4 (a SUV) had smashed into the back of car 3 ( a Kia piccanto ) and crushed it entirely. It looked safe to say that car 4's failure to leave a decent gap might be something that haunts him for the rest of his life.
You might be 'hitting it anyway' but at least you might not kill someone in the process
It looked safe to say that car 4’s failure to leave a decent gap might be something that haunts him for the rest of his life
Or likely not paying attention to have the kind of speed difference to flatten a car.
In my son's case, the footage was blatently obvious about the driver's behavious - the overtaking of other drivers on inside lanes was picked up by the cheap dashcam - driver was in front of my son, but then he cut my lad up. The driver brake checked really hard from 70 - Jag vs a little 12 year old Aygo - fortunately not much weight in an Aygo. My son wasn't in his track prepared car that is running massive brakes and a decent bit of poke (3 x the Aygo). Just submitted footage, email back a few weeks later, driver procecuted just on video evidence.
If I've been tailgaed, it's usually someone that want's past the whole line of traffic that's in the outside lane overtaking other vehicles. I usually give them a few free screen washes (berry flavor - far too nice TBH) then pull over whilst I watch them tailgate the car that was in front of me.
I’d imagine that this might put people off, if they have to face the opposing driver. Snitches get stitches etc etc.
I'd imagine a similarly immature view point would be .. pricks get prosecuted.
I do the slow down job and maybe flick the fogs. Usually wakes them up. Or shov the hazards on as you slow as I was told to do. Got a hill on the way to work. Bloody lorries insist on having a run up despite the dangers can,t overtake anything though. They don't tail gate for long
How close does the person have to be to be classified as tail gating? I find it quite distracting (especially in the dark with dazzling LED lights) if the car behind is getting close enough to be looming in the rear view mirror, but that doesn't need to be I would guess tail-gating close.
I used to be an ass about it but it just doubles how potentially stressful the situation gets. Sometimes do a comedy overly-enthusiastic wave as if they're my best friends I haven't seen in a long time.
How close does the person have to be to be classified as tail gating?
Anything less than two seconds?
Anything less than 2 seconds but if I've lost sight of your plate you're almost in my boot.
Tone is everything online.
Ironic as online you can't tell what the intended tone is.
Also bear in mind that many cars now have adaptive cruise control so can sit quite close behind you [s]and still be safe.[/]
FTFY.
Cars are not self driving and stupid adaptive cruise settings aren't a get out for driving too close.
Must vary according to cars then. None of the cruise control settings on my car are anywhere near tailgating distance.
Only car I've driven with it (Mazda CX5) required the distance cranking right out to max for a 2 second gap. As above, it's not self driving and it's still on the driver to react to any change in conditions.
Some interesting understandings of how adaptive cruise works.
No wonder so many people crash using driver aids
Quite.
I got somewhat very shirty with my SIL as she'd bought a new Yaris Cross for £30k plus - the top one. She was going on about the driver assist (not that her previous car had any tech) and said it was OK driving if 'tired' as it will do stuff for you. I said, if tired you need to stop and pull over as a computer won't do the driving.
This is what some/many people think about cars now. All this driver tech is madness as we need to tackle poor driving.
Brake checking seems odd to me. You're being followed by someone who's clearly a shit driver, so you want to test their reflexes?
The main/best answer here is increase the gap to the next car to four seconds or so, but in the meantime...
In my experience, tailgators fall into 2 camps, which has already been touched on - passive and aggressive. And, on the whole, these are split by gender mainly female passive TGs, and male aggressive ones.
You can't shift a passive TG without completely stopping. Their driving appears to be to accelerate gently until one car length behind another car, then do excatly what that car does until their paths diverge.
You can have some fun with aggressive TGs tho* 😉
Put your car in a gear lower than normal for the speed limit, so it's very responsive to the throttle both on and off. Allow your speed to rise maybe 10% above the speed limit. Say 30 to 32 or 33. Keep an eye on the rear view mirror... as your TG closes the gap, lift off, allow your speed to drop to 10% below the limit - maybe 28. Watch again for the clear bonnet dip behind as Mr Aggressive has to hit the brakes. As soon as you see that, back up to 32. Repeat as necessary - it usually only takes 2 or 3 cycles before the TG gets fed-up and drops back (or actually overtakes). The beauty of this one is it appears completely unintentional and non-aggressive - you're just a driver trying to stay at the limit - but also just completely out of sync with their driving; it's fairly clear it's their own aggression that is the problem.
*See also "lapping" Middle Lane Morons on empty motorways. (3 laps is my record)
I quite like the 20 in Wales now. I'm a Manc that spends alot of time there, so I'll stick to it with a little plus minus.
Locals/non locals get ratty sometimes... hey ho.
I've not yet come across issues when I'm riding plus 20 mph as I avoid the main roads in North Wales - TBH - it's loads better on a bike in Wales than in England anyway - always has been.
I got somewhat very shirty with my SIL as she’d bought a new Yaris Cross for £30k plus
Yeah, we are in a dangerous place at the moment, the gap between manualy driven vehicles and fully autonomous ones... people seem to think they can let a semi auto vehicle do all the work...it's called driver assist rather than autonomous for a reason.
It seems a lot of people think they can just disengage from activley driving or even looking where they are going.
I always rant on about 'Lane Assist' in my car, not only because it seems to activate when it shouldn't, but also, if you are incapable of keeping your car between two lines on the tarmac, you shouldn't be getting behind the wheel in the first place.
Even meandering over to the point where it turns on and shoves you back into your lane is bad driving, and offputting for everyone else.
I think it encourages phone use as well. If the car is going to keep you in lane and your input only has to be to monitor the gap between you and the car in front you can switch off.
Get up to speed , flick on cruise control , grab mobile and start WhatsApp up. Lane assist and adaptive cruise will do the rest , right ?
Having driven back from France in a mate’s car that had adaptive cruise control and seeing how much easier it made the journey, it’s definitely something I’d look for in a car in future. If it also had the lane assist and stop start driving then even better IMV.
They make driving in traffic on motorways so much less tiring.
They make driving in traffic on motorways so much less tiring.
I'm not sure I quite get this. I mean, I'm sure they work well and can make the drive easier, but is that a good thing?
Driving isn't tiring to my way of thinking, it's boring, especially on motorways. That's where my mind wanders and I lose concentration, and yes at times particularly when driving was part of my job, at the end of a long day you could almost drift off - and obviously people do with terrible consequences. IME it doesn't happen on non- Mway / dc roads, where you actually have to drive and choose gears and go round corners, and it doesn't happen if you're trying to negotiate the M40 in rain and traffic where there's a lot happening or with the potential to happen.
All these driver aids things that remove the need to be actively involved, to my mind make it more likely I'd lose concentration - and if we've got to the point that it doesn't matter because the car has total control then fine, but this half way where it removes the stimulus but doesn't remove control - IDK.
I'd really like to see active monitoring of the driver - eyes, yawning, various other inputs I'm sure indicate lack of attention / oncoming tiredness and if necessary then feeding stimulus in or even requiring driver to pull over. Bit Big Brotherey but.
Or maybe you have various buttons on the wheel that you have to activate from time to time as they light up, and if you fail to then alarms go off and the seatback kidney punches you into alertness again?
received a 12 month ban for causing an accident by brake checking someone
Brake checking as in actually braking, or accelerating while lightly tapping the brake pedal to flash the brake lights?
Flashing brake lights and braking are completely different things. A brake light coming on can't cause an accident. Driving involves seeing brake lights coming on at unpredictable times. If seeing a brake light causes a tailgater to have an accident, it was the tailgating that caused the accident.
Interesting that no one actually seems to know the legal position.
A brake light coming on can’t cause an accident.
What does the driver behind do when he sees the brake light come on? He doesn't know it's just a tap on the pedal, and would be stupid to not respond to that tap assuming it is a brake check.
What does that do to the driver behind that one?
Maybe they don't hit the car in front, but they have to brake a bit harder because they've also used up reaction time......and onto the next. Frequently it's not the first few cars that run out of space but the ones behind them - it's called the concertina effect and is known in insurance claims.
I've been in one (as a passenger) and it was horrific - we were about third car and stopped in time, just, the car behind us also stopped and then the car behind hit him, that hit us into the car in front. Followed by IDK, three or four further shunts as cars behind hit the back of the line. Must have been a few seconds but the noise, the smoke from airbags going off, and even in that short time thinking '**** - I hope there isn't an artic coming up behind!'
Not saying that was caused by someone in front brake checking but it could be. And could have been avoided if everyone had left more space, but as discussed earlier in the real world on the M1 on a busy day, leave a gap like that and three other cars will be in it.
BRAKE CHECKING IS A DICK MOVE - WHETHER 'LEGAL' OR NOT.