Don't see the problem. My brother nearly drowned in a river crossing in that area in the 70s. Was part of an outdoor group with instructors.
West coast rivers rise fast and need to be respected when in spate.
My brother only survived because another student in the water grabbed him with his (the other students) only hand while his other arm (amputated at wrist) was hooked found a tree at the bank.
I've always questioned the decision to attempt that crossing however in pre mobile phone days there could be a choice between the risk of a crossing or the risk of exposure by not crossing.
[quote=legend ]They only got dropped off at the next station, he had to hitchhike back to the car from there
Should have been made to walk as penance for upsetting people sitting at their computers in the warm.
[quote=matt_outandabout ]You do know you can make multiple trips across? Three in a boat, does that work for you Hun?
Is that what he did? I was thinking that 2 adults and 3 kids in a canoe (with kit) didn't seem totally unreasonable, but then probably more comfortable doing it in 2 trips.
In which case, which of the fox, chicken and corn did he leave alone together?
You wouldn't leave kids with corn....
They were more concerned about which kids would eat each other!
Thanks to all those who brought some real knowledge and perspective to the thread, I'm sure Jon will appreciate it.
West coast rivers rise fast and need to be respected when in spate.
Yup - many years ago when I was about 8 my family went for a walk on a dreich day. An out and back walk. While we were out and a good few miles from the road it started to rain very heavily. ON the way back the small streams that I had happily crossed dryfoot as an 8 yr old had swollen to the extent that my dad was standing knee deep in fast flowing water to get me safely back across.
Well at least it appears to some it may have been justified if someone had died
They were more concerned about which kids would eat each other!
Keep an eye on the little one. It is always the little ones you have to watch...
Speaking as a Dad who takes his kids (4&6) canoe camping, did he get his canoe back?
But what if.......therewasnophonesignal?
But what if.......therewasnophonesignal?
Depending on what's around and if I'd got dry clothes in the car, I'd probably swim for it where the loch narrows just to the east (<20meters) and get back to the car, wait a few days then claim on the life insurance when the canoe turns up.
did he get his canoe back
Still MIA.
Hoping though, it was a rare boat these days...
No boat yet, so if you're passing and you happen to see it then let Matt or me know or even the police.
Glad they’re safe. Well done to the rescue team.
No boat yet, so if you're passing and you happen to see it then let Matt or me know or even the police.
I'll be up there next May for the SSDT, there's a group of sections over that side of the loch, I'll keep my eyes open for it. 😉
You mean all they had to do was survive 8 months and they could've got a lift out on the back of a motorbike?
[b]TIME WASTERS!!!![/b]
😆
Situation turns suddenly iffy, father phones people who know stuff for advice before attempting anything that might put anyone at risk, gets advice and help out.
Looks like the perfect answer all round.
Except to some hand-wringing ninnies. 🙄
Let's just be happy no kids got eaten by the wild beavers yeah. And they have a fantastic story to tell back at school 8)
Enlightening stuff, thanks. As always, local knowledge puts a different spin on the 'facts' reported in the meeja. Haven't really seen much 'hand-wringing' going on - just a desire to understand the thought processes involved.
I've spent a fair bit of time yomping solo around that part of the world through a branch of my work and understand it can be hard going at the best of times. I was initially surprised that a fit young family would decide not to walk out three miles but I do see the wisdom of making the call now, given the new info.
You do know you can make multiple trips across? Three in a boat, does that work for you Hun?
As I acknowledged 3 posts later. I'm not going to take umbrage at the 'Hun' partly because you were leaping to the defence of a friend, but also because [s]you had no way of knowing that I am German[/s] I know enough about you from your posts on here to know that you are a generally good bloke and [i]would[/i] leap to the defence of a friend.
The capitalisation is unfortunate, I meant it as a term of endearment...and tongue in cheek. 😳
Edit: hun = hon = honey....
You mean all they had to do was survive 8 months and they could've got a lift out on the back of a motorbike?
No room on what those guys are on Col!
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Enlightening stuff, thanks. As always, local knowledge puts a different spin on the 'facts' reported in the meeja. Haven't really seen much 'hand-wringing' going on - just a desire to understand the thought processes involved.
It just shows how a press article can portray a situation inaccurately. Not necessarily intentionally.
Seems like they did the sensible thing. Plus when we were up there earlier in the year and thinking of going on the Jacobite Express it was booked up months in advance. This seems like a really good solution to getting a brief trip on it 🙂
The capitalisation is unfortunate, I meant it as a term of endearment...and tongue in cheek.
Thats ok mate, like I said I wasn't offended, and the German bit was a joke.
But i'm glad your mate looked after his party so well, and I hope he gets the boat back.
Trespass on the railway is pretty common here with people accessing the bothy, rather they get on the train than under it!
I've just been out west for the weekend. The rivers are well and truely in spate and the ground is very water logged and flooded. We rethought our plans several times each day and we weren't even travelling with kids!
I think the "3 miles" is along the railway line. The alternative without serious river crossings is a much longer route (10+ miles). Imagine the criticism he'd be facing if there has been pics of a family walking along the railway line posted on social media without the story behind it never mind anyone actually being hurt.
I have to say I was more amazed at the entirely rational response by all involved, including the police and that no helo's were launched in the process!
[quote=Frankenstein ]Glad they’re safe. Well done to the rescue team.
😆
[quote=user-removed ]Enlightening stuff, thanks. As always, local knowledge puts a different spin on the 'facts' reported in the meeja.
I'm not sure what's wrong with the media reporting - it mentions the age of the children and "difficult boggy ground", along with the burn being in spate. I have no local knowledge at all, but it didn't seem a unreasonable decision just reading the article (there's certainly no implication in the article that they did anything wrong). Though being curious I checked on a map and looking at the terrain it's clearly not somewhere I'd want to try taking a 6yo (as poly suggests, the best route probably isn't along the shoreline, but neither would I be wanting to take a 6yo on what looks like the best route).
I suspect if there had been no way of contacting anybody then I'd have chosen to swim the lake at the shortest point as suggested above (dry clothes towed behind in a dry bag) before walking back to the car and going to find somebody to lend me a boat.
Would swimming the loch be sensible? Very cold water with short survival times I would have thought. Dunno tho. I think without a phone I would have walked out along the railway - trains only do 40 or 50 mph along there and you can hear them coming a long way off and its only 3 or so trains a day in each direction
Would swimming the loch be sensible?
Only if you have a green mankini....
I'd have walked the tracks if I was alone or with some mates and no phone, sensible thing would be probably to wave down a train driver.
Looking at the map you're a 1km walk along from a 20/30m swim. This time of year would probably be doable, but would be pretty cold, I can just about handle 15C water jumping in and out for 10 minutes to get used to it, then I could handle it long enough for a 20/30m swim, but not much more..
But this time of year, we've already lost 3C on that, sea temps around glasgow are sitting at 12C just now, so probably about 11C up there. That's a massive difference tbh.
an unexperienced swimmer, ie. me, could easily get into bother there, even over a short distance. Trying a 3/400 swim, unless you are a cold water swimmer and used to it, would probably just be stupid. Not to mention no wet suits, I'm guessing.
loch temps can be colder and warmer than the sea mind you, just using the sea temp numbers as that's all that's ever measured online as far as I know.
seosamh77
As warm as that? I am suprised
11C water is pretty baltic.
sea temps around scotland range from about 6/7/8C in winter to 15C in august/september(13/14C the further north you get). As I say lochs can vary, they heat up quicker at the surface in good weather, but they can also be colder during the spring and early summer, with snow melt going directly into them. tbh I'm not sure on that exactly, but that's my general impression.
I've no real experience or knowledge of this though, just what I've googled. Pretty certain some of the swimmers/triathletes on here will be able to supply reliable knowledge.
Defo don't quote me! 😆
[quote=tjagain ]Would swimming the loch be sensible?
It's less than 50m at the narrowest point, only a minute or so to swim across and I doubt the water's all that cold at that point.
I was in Bala last weekend, can't imagine it's significantly colder. I was in a wetsuit but was still in/out for 2-3 hours. Definitely swimmable without a wetsuit.
Depends on the person though, it takes repeated time/exposure to get over cold water shock, and that's what'll kill you long before you tire of exhaustion.
Some of us on this thread may have some history of loosing canoes and swimming for it. 😳 🙄
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canoes? Not even just the one? 😆 how cold was that?
Loch Ard in July. Compared to the rest of Scotland, a tepid puddle.
35 years I have been able to tie a bowline....but not that day it seems....
I remember one scorcher of a day early June many years ago, blistering sun and about 30 miles into a ride around the mountains I came across a nice looking swimming pool in a burn. Quick jump in here to cool down I thought. Holy shite it was ice cold and I thought I was going to die of shock! Never again, alway make sure to test before jumping in.As I say lochs can vary, they heat up quicker at the surface, but they can also be colder during the spring and early summer, with snow melt going directly into them.
I did the same in June this year in a plunge pool in fisherfeild. It was colder than ice!
aye 11C water really has no relation to 11C air temperature, the water feels many times more colder. cause you are in direct contact with more volume of it, it draws the heat out of you much much faster.
And when you are talking good days heating up water, you are only talking the top metre or so as well, it's colder the deeper it gets too. you can feel that if you just in, the top foot of water can feel quite comfortable if you are floating in it, let your feet drop an tread water and you can feel the temp difference running up your body.
Please don’t walk along the railway anywhere.
