[Closed] Bothy family call police to save them a 3 mile walk...

They phoned for advice not for rescue and didn't have a callout just the very simple solution of getting the train to stop

their children - aged six, eight, 10 and 12

"In the end I decided the only option was to phone the police and mountain rescue, ask if they have any local knowledge that could help us out," said Mr Cluett.

True, but why? Why not just walk three miles? Why involve anyone else at that stage? My four year old walks up and down mountains, albeit quite slowly...

Idiots, why would you put a canoe on a mooring in the first place?

Bloody disgrace ..or a staged publicity stunt ..?
The family name is Cluets ..should be Clueless..

Kids 6, 8 and 10 plus all their kit. Would be hard work over boggy terrain. Seemed like a convenient solution.

Is there anything wrong with phoning for "advice"? I agree, a 3 mile walk shouldn't be an issue, but I don't really see it as an abuse of the emergency services. A bit unnecessary? Possibly. The fact that they even considered the walk suggests their kit was portable and they all could have handled the terrain and the distance.

I don't get the "the rocks I tied the boat to were pull apart" bit: So, either the water shattered the rock, or they failed to properly secure the boat.

Given that water levels had risen and other watercourses were possibly in spate I can see that it made some sense to look for some local knowledge.

If it had been my family I'd have likely walked the route solo to check it was OK then come back to get them.

I have no issue with their actions once they had lost the canoe. They didn't phone for rescue, they phoned for advice.

The canoe was not "on a mooring" it was tied up to rocks and pulled out of the water but a stream in spate washed it away. These streams can go from small to large very quickly and a stream in spate has huge power in it

I think they were in a canadian rather than kayaks. Six of them plus kit in one canoe seems a bit dodgy but I'm happy to live in a world where we can do stuff that's a bit dodgy.

They had nippers with them they did the right thing.
Would you rather see mountain rescue spend 2 days looking for them.
Although this time of year a plan B could of been useful. The only thing that gets me is 1 canoe tbh that's a lot of clobber and kids in one boat

Makes sense to call for local knowledge as opposed to getting in a situation that requires subsequent call out.

I doubt if it woulda have made the news if It wasn’t the Hogwarts Express.

Although this time of year a plan B could of been useful. The only thing that gets me is 1 canoe tbh that's a lot of clobber and kids in one boat

Now I think about it I suppose that they could have taken the boat across more than once, hope so cos if you went over in the middle with a boat loaded like that things could have gone bad very quickly.

I wouldv'e called for advice as well. It wasn't a distress call after all.
Good experience for the kids as well in that they'll have learned a bit from it.
You can see that bothy from the road but It's a right plodge to get there on foot.

I though that at first. However, the police seemed to find the situation difficult/dangerous enough to go to the bother of arranging for the train to stop. A simple solution for a situation that could've led to more bother.

It's probably worth adding that the terrain round there is particularly rough and covered in heather and bracken. It would be a tough walk, particularly for small children. A call to ask "are there going to be any trains along in the next couple of hours" - time enough to walk along the track - would have been the sensible approach and could have elicited the subsequent response.

Yup, can't see the issue tbh. Sure, they could have had a better plan B, or perhaps moored the canoe better. But taking them at their word, they seemed pretty prepared and took a sensible option when an unforeseen circumstance caught them out. I think it's fair to give benefit of the doubt here, as it's not likely that many people who were clueless in the outdoors would be planning to take their kids to stay in a bothy only accessible by canoe. Not sure why they've accrued the wrath of some people.

Now I think about it I suppose that they could have taken the boat across more than once

Article says it's only 10 minutes in the canoe, so two trips quite feasible

The terrain is so rough in fact that they were able to run for the train with bags & boxes bouncing all around for close to 1/2 mile ..
Err..right 8)

Rain in Lochaber in October is not really unforeseen.
They should be charged with littering.

hodgynd

do you know the area / terrain?

They rang for advice the Police arranged for a train to stop, what’s the issue?

An is was a nice train, nobody was caused any hassle and everyone got a nice story to tell. Sounds like a good news one really.

The bothy is only 150m or so from the rail line (and pretty flat)?

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They rang for advice the Police arranged for a train to stop, what’s the issue?

A few people who've never made a mistake in their lives seem to have come over all holier than thou. So just the usual nonsense.

Not according to the article ..400m it claims ..but I won't argue against your local knowledge..or indeed the map !

Journalists! 😆

Possible they had to make a couple of trips back and forth with their kit though.

The right call I'd say, its not like they sent a chopper in to get them or anything.
I've been to that exact location three times whilst working on the railway bridge immediately downstream, which is probably where they left the canoe. The first time I walked in, if you don't use the railway (which you shouldn't as its illegal and bloody dangerous) its a long way through steep terrain with a river crossing. Getting out without walking along the railway track would be a flipping nightmare with little kids. The two subsequent trips I paddled across the loch in a kayak on one occasion and then got dropped off (and picked up) by a train on the third. I have thought about taking the family across in the past by canoe, its an awesome spot. Will just remember to tie the boat up properly!

Seems fair enough, sometimes shit happens that you either didn't plan for or scupers your plans entirely.

And Plan B was probably walking out via the bog/hill/river and mountain rescue would probably rather you let them know that you were attempting a slightly iffy plan B so they know where you are and what time you'll call in to say its all OK than get a call several hours later when your lost and hypothermic.

Last week I did a cheeky camp in the back of my car on a lakeshore in Snowdonia. Someone just sent me a pic of the location today and it's under water due to the taps being opened on the resevoir upstream! Now that could have gotten interesting!

Nothing wrong with what they did, at all. It might seem a simple walk, but if the rivers are in spate, it would be mushy and they could have dangerous burns/rivers to cross. Looking at a map looks like there's a couple in either direction. They had a 6 yo with them and other children, and accidents do happen. There's really only one consideration there, finding the safest route out, not manning up.

Easiest option would have been to walk up the tracks in lieu of a phone mind you. as sr said.

The guy concerned is a qaulified mountain guide and teaches outdoor ed at the local uni and schools.

Sounds like he had various escape options in mind - and plan b worked out nicely.

(and if faced with walking along the rail tracks, a phone call to the polis is a very sensible call).

can't see an issue. Phoned for advice, got advice and a solution.

It's fine saying 'it's only 3 miles' but that's over undefined terrain, that has been very wet overnight (enough to wash their kayak away) and with small kids....... yes they could have attempted it and then what, if they find they can't or get bogged down, then it is only resolved by MR.

I think the kids are really lucky to have adventurous parents and have had an important lesson on what can happen when things go wrong,
I hope it doesn’t put them off + gives them some exciting memories.

over undefined terrain,

They done the right thing, made contact and recieved local advice before it became serious and got a safe way out using very little emergency services resources. In fact it sounds text book to me. Good on the train people for making an unscheduled stop. Those kids will go back to school with a great story and lifelong memories, what's not to like?

I've climbed the Corbetts to the south of Loch Eilt. The walk in isn't especially nice. It's boggy and has some sharp gullies. I think this was the best option.

I'm shocked. Shocked that there are people who even think there is an issue with their actions - they didn't apparently involve anybody else having to come out and rescue them, just a couple of phone calls made, which saved a lot more potential bother. I'd certainly not want to try taking a 6yo on that walk out with streams in spate.

I just wish I lived a bit nearer there - looks like a great adventure to take kids on (the canoe trip, not the 3 mile hike through shitty terrain).

A call to ask "are there going to be any trains along in the next couple of hours" - time enough to walk along the track - would have been the sensible approach and could have elicited the subsequent response.

It's almost like you were listening in 😀

To be honest, at least getting in touch with someone to inform them of the situation seems like a sensible course of action before doing anything rash. And they were offered a better way out and took it. Seems like a good news story to me.

Hello all. I'm here to offer balance to the hand wringers.
I'm good friends with the family.

Father is an MIC holder and mountain guide, and like me has spent 20 years in outdoor education, leading young people and adults all across uk and Alps. He has had far more hill days, mountain bike days, climbing days, remote wild camps and bothy nights than most of you lot put together. He is 'proper' mountain man, who has served on MRT teams and lectures in outdor education to teachers.

This family bothy trip is annual, always to another bothy.

Youngest child is 5. Eldest 10. They've climbed a few Munro's already.

The call for help was for a few reasons.

The railway walk (obvious way out) is dangerous and illegal. He thought the police would say 'do it, with our blessing'.
He thought the MRT/police would know someone with a boat, again the simple answer.
He knew the three mile walk involved streams, one of which had gone from 10' wide ankle deep to ove 6' and totally flooded a field. He was concerned that the three mile walk would involve trying to cross flooded streams with small children.
He didn't expect police to call back and say 'next train is stopping' for you, or that train was due in 20 mins, or that it was the Potter train.

Pitchforks down folks.

We were in Fort William Mon-Fri and it was peeing it down. Waterfalls looked nice but I wouldn't have fancied yomping the family back to the car from that bothy. Would the story be more acceptable if the 'normal' train had picked them up rather than the steam train? £130 return for a family of 5 on the Jacobite. £28 on the scheduled Scotrail train

Idiots, why would you put a canoe on a mooring in the first place

The canoe was on dry land, upside down, tied to a boulder that weighed a good few hundred kg's, about 30m from loch.

£130 return for a family of 5 on the Jacobite. £28 on the scheduled Scotrail train

They only got dropped off at the next station, he had to hitchhike back to the car from there

Six of them plus kit in one canoe seems a bit dodgy but I'm happy to live in a world where we can do stuff that's a bit dodgy

You do know you can make multiple trips across? Three in a boat, does that work for you Hun?

Great to hear good news news for a change.

Those criticising need to think about a few things:

I've seen and heard of many similar circumstances where canoes/kayaks have been swept away from places that seem to be clear of any water hazard. Water levels in this part of the west of Scotland can defy belief at times.

The terrain around Essan is such that the only real viable way to return to the road is to walk along the railway track.

This is, strictly speaking, illegal so it makes sense to phone the local police for advice.

Rivers/burns in this part of the world are really dangerous when in spate - often impassible.

It turns out that there was an easy and happy conclusion to all this - as menntioned before this was pretty much a textbook example of what to do in a situation where things have gone wrong and there is a viable and simple solution.

It is great to hear stories of adventure like this and to hear that the railways had a positive role to play.

For those who think that 3 miles in that kind of terrain is some kind of stroll, you are showing a considerable amount of ignorance of the terrain and hazards that are presented in your homeland! Maintaining even 1 km/h in such terrain is often an impossible feat for a fit and strong hillgoer.

Don't see the problem. My brother nearly drowned in a river crossing in that area in the 70s. Was part of an outdoor group with instructors.

West coast rivers rise fast and need to be respected when in spate.

My brother only survived because another student in the water grabbed him with his (the other students) only hand while his other arm (amputated at wrist) was hooked found a tree at the bank.

I've always questioned the decision to attempt that crossing however in pre mobile phone days there could be a choice between the risk of a crossing or the risk of exposure by not crossing.

[quote=legend ]They only got dropped off at the next station, he had to hitchhike back to the car from there

Should have been made to walk as penance for upsetting people sitting at their computers in the warm.

[quote=matt_outandabout ]You do know you can make multiple trips across? Three in a boat, does that work for you Hun?

Is that what he did? I was thinking that 2 adults and 3 kids in a canoe (with kit) didn't seem totally unreasonable, but then probably more comfortable doing it in 2 trips.

In which case, which of the fox, chicken and corn did he leave alone together?

You wouldn't leave kids with corn....

They were more concerned about which kids would eat each other!
Thanks to all those who brought some real knowledge and perspective to the thread, I'm sure Jon will appreciate it.

West coast rivers rise fast and need to be respected when in spate.

Yup - many years ago when I was about 8 my family went for a walk on a dreich day. An out and back walk. While we were out and a good few miles from the road it started to rain very heavily. ON the way back the small streams that I had happily crossed dryfoot as an 8 yr old had swollen to the extent that my dad was standing knee deep in fast flowing water to get me safely back across.

Well at least it appears to some it may have been justified if someone had died

They were more concerned about which kids would eat each other!

Keep an eye on the little one. It is always the little ones you have to watch...

Speaking as a Dad who takes his kids (4&6) canoe camping, did he get his canoe back?

But what if.......therewasnophonesignal?

But what if.......therewasnophonesignal?

Depending on what's around and if I'd got dry clothes in the car, I'd probably swim for it where the loch narrows just to the east (<20meters) and get back to the car, wait a few days then claim on the life insurance when the canoe turns up.

did he get his canoe back

Still MIA.

Hoping though, it was a rare boat these days...

No boat yet, so if you're passing and you happen to see it then let Matt or me know or even the police.

Glad they’re safe. Well done to the rescue team.

No boat yet, so if you're passing and you happen to see it then let Matt or me know or even the police.

You mean all they had to do was survive 8 months and they could've got a lift out on the back of a motorbike?

[b]TIME WASTERS!!!![/b]

😆

Situation turns suddenly iffy, father phones people who know stuff for advice before attempting anything that might put anyone at risk, gets advice and help out.
Looks like the perfect answer all round.
Except to some hand-wringing ninnies. 🙄

Let's just be happy no kids got eaten by the wild beavers yeah. And they have a fantastic story to tell back at school 8)

Enlightening stuff, thanks. As always, local knowledge puts a different spin on the 'facts' reported in the meeja. Haven't really seen much 'hand-wringing' going on - just a desire to understand the thought processes involved.

I've spent a fair bit of time yomping solo around that part of the world through a branch of my work and understand it can be hard going at the best of times. I was initially surprised that a fit young family would decide not to walk out three miles but I do see the wisdom of making the call now, given the new info.

You do know you can make multiple trips across? Three in a boat, does that work for you Hun?

As I acknowledged 3 posts later. I'm not going to take umbrage at the 'Hun' partly because you were leaping to the defence of a friend, but also because [s]you had no way of knowing that I am German[/s] I know enough about you from your posts on here to know that you are a generally good bloke and [i]would[/i] leap to the defence of a friend.

The capitalisation is unfortunate, I meant it as a term of endearment...and tongue in cheek. 😳

Edit: hun = hon = honey....

You mean all they had to do was survive 8 months and they could've got a lift out on the back of a motorbike?

No room on what those guys are on Col!

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Enlightening stuff, thanks. As always, local knowledge puts a different spin on the 'facts' reported in the meeja. Haven't really seen much 'hand-wringing' going on - just a desire to understand the thought processes involved.

It just shows how a press article can portray a situation inaccurately. Not necessarily intentionally.

Seems like they did the sensible thing. Plus when we were up there earlier in the year and thinking of going on the Jacobite Express it was booked up months in advance. This seems like a really good solution to getting a brief trip on it 🙂

The capitalisation is unfortunate, I meant it as a term of endearment...and tongue in cheek.

Thats ok mate, like I said I wasn't offended, and the German bit was a joke.

But i'm glad your mate looked after his party so well, and I hope he gets the boat back.

Trespass on the railway is pretty common here with people accessing the bothy, rather they get on the train than under it!

I've just been out west for the weekend. The rivers are well and truely in spate and the ground is very water logged and flooded. We rethought our plans several times each day and we weren't even travelling with kids!

I think the "3 miles" is along the railway line. The alternative without serious river crossings is a much longer route (10+ miles). Imagine the criticism he'd be facing if there has been pics of a family walking along the railway line posted on social media without the story behind it never mind anyone actually being hurt.

I have to say I was more amazed at the entirely rational response by all involved, including the police and that no helo's were launched in the process!

[quote=Frankenstein ]Glad they’re safe. Well done to the rescue team.

😆

[quote=user-removed ]Enlightening stuff, thanks. As always, local knowledge puts a different spin on the 'facts' reported in the meeja.

I'm not sure what's wrong with the media reporting - it mentions the age of the children and "difficult boggy ground", along with the burn being in spate. I have no local knowledge at all, but it didn't seem a unreasonable decision just reading the article (there's certainly no implication in the article that they did anything wrong). Though being curious I checked on a map and looking at the terrain it's clearly not somewhere I'd want to try taking a 6yo (as poly suggests, the best route probably isn't along the shoreline, but neither would I be wanting to take a 6yo on what looks like the best route).

I suspect if there had been no way of contacting anybody then I'd have chosen to swim the lake at the shortest point as suggested above (dry clothes towed behind in a dry bag) before walking back to the car and going to find somebody to lend me a boat.

Would swimming the loch be sensible? Very cold water with short survival times I would have thought. Dunno tho. I think without a phone I would have walked out along the railway - trains only do 40 or 50 mph along there and you can hear them coming a long way off and its only 3 or so trains a day in each direction

Would swimming the loch be sensible?

Only if you have a green mankini....

I'd have walked the tracks if I was alone or with some mates and no phone, sensible thing would be probably to wave down a train driver.

Looking at the map you're a 1km walk along from a 20/30m swim. This time of year would probably be doable, but would be pretty cold, I can just about handle 15C water jumping in and out for 10 minutes to get used to it, then I could handle it long enough for a 20/30m swim, but not much more..

But this time of year, we've already lost 3C on that, sea temps around glasgow are sitting at 12C just now, so probably about 11C up there. That's a massive difference tbh.

an unexperienced swimmer, ie. me, could easily get into bother there, even over a short distance. Trying a 3/400 swim, unless you are a cold water swimmer and used to it, would probably just be stupid. Not to mention no wet suits, I'm guessing.

loch temps can be colder and warmer than the sea mind you, just using the sea temp numbers as that's all that's ever measured online as far as I know.

seosamh77

As warm as that? I am suprised

11C water is pretty baltic.

sea temps around scotland range from about 6/7/8C in winter to 15C in august/september(13/14C the further north you get). As I say lochs can vary, they heat up quicker at the surface in good weather, but they can also be colder during the spring and early summer, with snow melt going directly into them. tbh I'm not sure on that exactly, but that's my general impression.

I've no real experience or knowledge of this though, just what I've googled. Pretty certain some of the swimmers/triathletes on here will be able to supply reliable knowledge.

Defo don't quote me! 😆