Considering this man is likely to lead the Conservative party at some time in the not too distant future and, by extension, has a very real chance of leading our country I'm curious as to what STW think of a recent speech he made. Please read it before you reply as it would be a shame to have this thread bogged down with thoughtless commentary. Yes he's a Thatcherite, yes he's a Tory, yes he's portrays himself as a bit of a buffoon. We all know this and I'm sure we call can come up with quick comment regarding this, it's his thoughts, policies and opinions that I'm interested in and I think this speech captures a lot of them.
The Telegraph posted (in full) his speech to the Cente for Policy Studies titled 'What Would Maggie do Today?", see the link below. Personally I found it to be a very interesting read from a man who garners much split opinion - what better place than STW to discuss...!
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/mayor-of-london/10480321/Boris-Johnsons-speech-at-the-Margaret-Thatcher-lecture-in-full.html ]Read it here[/url]
Having read through the article I would say it's an interesting and though provoking piece. referencing a lot of issues that Britain is facing today.
Yay 1st post....
I aim to please...
I aim to please...
Usually fun mate but mindless commentary like that usually kills what is supposed to be a sensible thread. Although I'd be interested to hear where you think our country would be right now if Maggie hadn't stepped in? Don't want to get of track though, like or loath her Maggie was the past. Let's talk about Boris.
Not very populist his speech, but tackled a few taboo things we as a society need to address. We're not all equal, deal with it, and there is a big difference between equality of opportunity and equality of living standards. The former we should be striving for, although ironically the politicians seem to be going the other way trying to achieve the latter, student fees being a good example.
Politics is in a right mess at the moment, say anything to be considered vaguely unpalatable regarding the realities of life and you'll find yourself personally villified, it's lazy politics to attack the person rather than counter the argument.
Usually fun mate but mindless commentary like that usually kills what is supposed to be a sensible thread.
A sensible thread about Boris? Now that [i]is[/i] a mindless proposition.
Don't want to get of track though, like or loath her Maggie was the past.
She was, however, the first topic of his speech. And dissent against her, I note, was carelessly wafted away with the back of his hand, whilst trotting out the same old tosh about the BBC being leftist propaganda. I hope it gets better as you've now committed me to take the time to read all of it.
EDIT: Half way now. It's not getting better. I'll admit he is quite a good fiction writer, though.
EDIT2: It had a shimmer of hope at about 2/3rds, but we're back to it again now. Perhaps he should suggest that we're far more interested in the tax the top 1% [u]evade[/u], rather than the tiny percentage of their income that they pay as tax
And run out of time for edits after wasting 20 minutes of my life reading that. My verdict: fallacy at best, dangerous jingoistic revisionism at its worst.
My first post was rather more succinct, and would have saved both me the time in reading the article and writing my later posts, and you the time reading said subsequent posts.
Tory tells Tory's what they want to here (very eloquently)
And it's very obviously Boris putting his flag in the sand for the leadership contest
Zokes. Bet your fun to be around. Divorced yet?
Divorced yet?
No. You?
Back in your hole, troll.
Well I for one hope he makes it to PM. Make a change from the DaveEdNick boredom show. Given that some folk on here are just not getting their daily outrage quota, PM Boris would give them what they crave.
Interesting article from the Torygraph.
Well I for one hope he makes it to PM.
Yes, just what we need, a compulsive elitist clown in charge. That will definitely improve things 🙄
It's been done already. STW's cornflakes rose up and discussed here:
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/boris-johnsons-latest-speach
As Boris would probably say, keep up at the back. As in any history exam, note who was talking, when and to what audience etc. (ie, BJ, Maggie lecture, CPS) and it all becomes quite clear.
I wouldn't vote for him, but I'd prefer him as PM to Cameron. I think regarding him as a buffoon as many seem to do is a gross underestimate of the man.
I like his bouts of straightforwardness. As a Tory he obviously does not really believe in democracy - see the reference to "ruling classes", so he's unlikely to dispose of the House of Lords.
This bit:
...and we ended up so relatively weakened that the ruling classes succumbed to a deep spiritual morosity that bordered on self-loathing...
.....and it all becomes quite clear.
It was all quite clear before he said all of that. There's nothing new there.
You strike me as bitter. The older you get the more mellow you should aim to be fella.
You strike me as bitter.
Nope.
The older you get the more mellow you should aim to be fella.
Which is why I cheerily couldn't give two hoots what you think of someone you've never met.
According to last saturday's edition, the Independent's 'mole' (their word for him/her) inside Westminster Conservatives says Theresa May for next Conservative leader. I thought she was giving up... 😕
That has to be a joke, May is the Tory equivalent of Prescott. Totally incapable of implementing anything effectively. With her track record of misinformation and misfiring, how could anyone consider her a leader? Apart from Russell and Bromley????
I think regarding him as a buffoon as many seem to do is a gross underestimate of the man.
With respect,I shall continue to think this until I witness a huge amount of evidence that will some how contradict it.
🙂
That has to be a joke
Quite possibly! I suppose it would be quite amusing being a 'mole' and throwing journalists the odd piece of comedy misinformation.
Apart from Russell and Bromley????
😆 😀
Same article (well it was one of those 'our man in westinster political comment' things) also said Cameron was more popular/less unpopular with he public than the party itself yet the Westminster conservatives are already sharpening their knives. Journalists, eh? 😕
He's clearly not stupid. It's depressing that some people want him as PM though - I can only assume because they think he's funny. I can't imagine anyone sane really thinks this government isn't right wing enough and is too egalitarian. Do they?
Theresa May would be hilarious as Tory leader but is surely unelectable? It would be terrifying if she became PM.
I feel for the wealthy and those born into privilege - in constant need of reassurance from the likes of Boris that come the leadership revolution, they'll still be fine and dandy while the thick poor bimble around aimlessly. It must be tough at the top that it leads to such insecurity.
"Yes, just what we need, a compulsive elitist clown in charge. That will definitely improve things"
Who said anything about improve things? Just think he'd be great as PM on many levels. Humorless perpetual moaners would have real reason for there existence rather than just thieve the breath of others. The rest of us may see it as a massive joke played on each other.
Who said anything about improve things? Just think he'd be great as PM on many levels. Humorless perpetual moaners would have real reason for there existence rather than just thieve the breath of others. The rest of us may see it as a massive joke played on each other.
It's like right wingers' bullshit bingo today. I've got a diagonal line from that paragraph alone. 🙂
Have just had a quick read of his interview on LBC this morning. He seems to be disavowing/backtracking/adding caveats to most main points of his speech.
What I find odd about him is every now and again he'll say/do something and people will say 'look, he's not a total buffoon'. But using this speech as an example I think it just illustrates EXACTLY the kind of buffoon he is - almost every main point of it is just lazy, ill thought-out reactionary guff that crumbles under even the most basic scrutiny. He is, however, very good at diverting attention from any real issues at hand (see his recent outbursts on cycling for a masterclass in this).
Who said anything about improve things?
That is the aspirational aim of someone taking the bother to vote, isn't it?
[i]"whilst trotting out the same old tosh about the BBC being leftist propaganda."[/i]
To be fair even the BBC Trust has formally recognised via research that it commissioned that the political balance in news / current affairs programming is not balanced and overly sympathetic to the left.
And the last but one BBC Director General spoke of a "massive left wing bias at the BBC"
http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/09/lecture-thompson-bbc-interview
The last Head of News has also said the same:
and MPs have made the same point again recently:
So if the BBC Trust, The last Director General, The last head of news and MPs all agree the BBC is biased is this really "[i]the same old tosh?[/i]"
So if the BBC Trust, The last Director General, The last head of news and MPs all agree the BBC is biased is this really "the same old tosh?"
To a large extent, that depends on how far skewed to the right their perception of the centre is. Certainly your last source should be discredited on that basis alone.
"Wah wah waaaaaaaaaah. 🙁 "
"BBC isn't fair to us" whinge the right-wingers. "It's not like we haven't cornered the printed media or anything like that..."
"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh"
Cry me a ****ing river.
So if the BBC Trust, The last Director General, The last head of news and MPs all agree the BBC is biased is this really "the same old tosh?"
The current chief political editor at the BBC is a Tory isn't he? And wow, some Tory MPs say the BBC is biased so it must be true.
The BBC also get accused of bias from those on the left - eg a complete failure to properly report on the latest NHS reforms. Some accuse it of being pro-Israel, others claim it's anti-Semitic and massively biased against Israel. 😕
Even if it is true don't we need something to counter the vile, misleading right wing propaganda that most of the rest of the (oligarch-owned) media churns out?
if they were that left wing theyd stop putting that **** farrage on question time
if they were that left wing theyd stop putting that **** farrage on question time
To be fair, he's so right wing he's pretty much gone full circle
Boris says we got it all wrong, apparently...
See any slack to be cut here?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25197926
See any slack to be cut here?
Start with the Mayor of London's office, and work from there?
What he said is not Thatcherite at all. Thatcherism was about social inclusion, own your own home, start your own business, self improvement etc. Thatcher was not from the public school elite that seems to have grasped power in the country (regardless of party).
That's not to say she didn't have an overall deleterious effect on the country, but she would not approve of today's political elite. Boris wouldn't have stood a chance of getting in her cabinet.
There's not point reading that speech. They're not his ideas. He's simply saying what he's being told to say by tory apparatchiks and corporate lobbyists. His only interest in politics is personal promotion. His complete lack of conviction or knowledge on pretty much any issue, and his affable and likeable character make him the perfect candidate for the corporate sponsored elite, and much like Ronald Reagan and George W Bush, if he ever makes it to the top, it'll be a complete disaster for all but a tiny few at the top of society.
See he's not even got the job yet and the moaners are out in force. There's nowt turns folk of politics quicker than the perpetual moaners who do nothing. Are you sure that you do not want him to stand? After all if he's that bad no one will vote him..........oops! Them there Londoners did twice.
Bring on Boris I say, lets have him as PM. What a laugh everything will be. 😆
Edit: poor spelling and missed words, I'm in the 16% you see. I do hope one of those 2% of cornflakes at the top of the packet gives me a helping hand.
Nor can I easily tell you what it will be like for us suddenly to be the biggest and most economically powerful country in Europe
Given the general atmosphere in the UK I suspect that vision is quite compelling for an awful lot of people of both the left and the right... and more so than anything either Dave or Ed have come up with in the last five years...
Whether you like/approve of him or not, the UK needs a visionary leader that promises us a better future... and for most people 'wealthier than I am now' = 'better'
Them Londoners did twice.
Exactly. That's why he's the perfect candidate for those he serves. I'm always amazed at the ability of the right to convince millions of otherwise sensible and intelligent people to vote against their own interests.
Boris won't have the same support outside of The Republic of London as he enjoys in it. In what he calls "the regions", i.e The UK, we're not so desensitized to the crippling economic disparity that exists there. So public school boys have to work a lot harder to win a vote.
He's entertaining, but running the country? Oh f*ck no.
So what you are saying is that he could win an election if he stood as conservative party leader? Scary.
Thatcherism was about social inclusion
there's no other way to put this............
have you gone mental ?
Boris won't have the same support outside of The Republic of London as he enjoys in it.
Indeed. Actually its a little bit worse by how his support by 'Londoners' is weighted towards the suburbs not 'proper' London. IIRC at election time it was ernie who provided us with a breakdown of votes/comment about this, with the implication that if even a bit less of commuterland was included in the election then Ken would have been mayor.
