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Yep. Any sense that there might even be footage from within the party...... and just waiting for the chance to drop that.
Bit like Red Bull's 'no, he didn't brake' how can they not think it's going to get proven in the end?
Bigger than Barnard Castle according to ITV
Bit like Red Bull’s ‘no, he didn’t brake’ how can they not think it’s going to get proven in the end?
Because even when it has in the past it hasnt really damaged them. So worth a gamble.
Its a basic law of politics. Its not the event that does for you - its the cover up and lies. Ask Nixon!
If they had said " there was a small gathering, it was unwise, they attempted to follow protocol, people have been spoken to and disciplined as appropriate" then its a non event even if they do not discipline anyone
Lie and cover it up and it always leaks in a drip drip drip manner prolonging the news headlines
I’d like to think that somewhere deep within No. 10 someone is having a full on Malcolm Tucker moment right now!
theotherjonv
Full Member
Yep. Any sense that there might even be footage from within the party
I've got to say that it would be stunning if no pics were taken, it'd be the first Christmas party since smartphones came along that didn't have pics taken, if so. Whether they ended up in the hands of someone to leak them is another matter. I hope so.
Good, the more they deny it now, the more damage it does them.
Not just to them but to the fight against Covid.
All this will be music to the ears of right-wing covid deniers and conspiracy theorists...... it's all a hoax, there's no pandemic, masks aren't necessary, they're taking us for fools, they don't even believe it themselves, don't listen to them - don't have the unproven vaccines, and so on.
A lot of them see Johnson as a bit of a leftie with his big government spending and covid diktat, it is likely to drive them into the arms of UKIP, Reclaim, and Reform parties. The hard right of the Tory Party will also have their hand strengthened.
I certainly hope that any possible fallout won't result in a weaken determination to fight the pandemic, or strengthen the UK's right-wing, but imo that is far from certain.
Whether they ended up in the hands of someone to leak them is another matter. I hope so.
I think there will be some people carefully deleting some photos of an event that didnt happen/did happen but met the rules/did happen but was done as a test of whether the met police would enforce the rules/ohh squirrel.
The BBC breakfast editor tweeted "7.30am slot on #BBCBreakfast on Wednesday still waiting to be filled.
Usually know by now which Minister will be offered for morning interview."
Some desperate negotiating going on I guess to get someone mad enough to go and follow the current line.
Just had a look at the daily wail - gunning for Johnson over this, Sun ditto, Express its the second story after "labour brexit moaners" Telegraph is leading with the story.
I fear you are right to some extent - like with Cummingsit makes it more difficult to get folk to follow covid advice but it really does feel like this is sticking
Rees-Mogg at the party ridiculing social distancing and the prospect of being investigated by police
Edit might not be the same party/event
The Rees-Mogg video looked like a poor fake when I saw it on social media. I wouldn’t get distracted by it.
well that video has mysteriously vanished!
And the veering towards fascism continues - or autocracy if you prefer
Making protest illegal with draconian penalties, Putting ministers above the law, making control of the press tighter, voter suppression, more racist immigration policies and the creating of internal and external enemies and the next one to appear will be another attempt to prevent unions funding labour I will bet
And no one showed up for the BBC Breakfast 7:30 slot.
What distraction tactic should we expect next - it’s quite some dead cat that’ll be needed here.
Some desperate negotiating going on I guess to get someone mad enough to go and follow the current line
Ha. That’ll be nobody then.
for the Torygraph Boris's Crimbo bash is a dead cat for England Ashes Crash.
This video?
Weird. Still looks fake. Still, Singapore-on-Thames using imperial measurements… he’s a comedian, you have to give him that.
What a farkin car crash. A number of senior Tories must go, starting with Boris. Liars the lot of them.
Its a problem with our pseudo democracy - there is absolutely no sanctions for lying and no mechanism for getting rid of incompetents. You are relying on them having some integrity and this lot of liars and corrupt chancers have none
Those that should be sacked have too much dirt on Johnson to be sacked as he fears the retribution from them
https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1468489917210587143?t=F_cdzcs-bMfrWeTWkGPBDA&s=19
As for dead cats, Article 16 anyone?
Has Stratton not resigned yet?
I dont see how she can stay, well cause nightmare for Johnson, her husband is editor of the Spectator, and they are best mates with Sunak- godparents to their kids
I wonder if PMQs will be mysteriously cancelled/handed over to the deputy?
They will all go on holiday as this crisis unfolds !
It's at times like these I almost wish I had a tory MP to write to! 😁
There's absolutely no chance anyone will comply with future harsh lockdowns now. I deleted my NHS check pinging app after Hancock got caught in his squeeze, can't believe that was just the thin end of the wedge!
the Daily Fail has gone into meltdown over this, funny that they ignored it for 5 days ?
The pressure is building. I don't think non-answers will cut it today. PMQs might be interesting.
If you look at the front pages of the Telegraph and Sun today and compare them to the other newspapers, it's pretty easy to guess which ones had staff invited to the party...
the Daily Fail has gone into meltdown over this, funny that they ignored it for 5 days ?
They covered the story 7 days ago, just like everyone else :
https://www.****/news/article-10262479/Sajid-Javid-denies-PM-broke-Covid-rules-parties-No10.html
PMQs might be interesting.
If I was Starmer, I'd start with, "Prime Minister, If I called you a liar in the house, would you ask that I retract my accusation?"
Then follow it up the speaker with, "and would you make me?"
I have to admit that with a brazen chancer like Boris I'm fairly cynical. In that he'll just put his head down and wait for it to go away. At the end of the day the only people who can get rid of him right now are his own party and, like the Republicans with Trump, they'll only do that if he is deemed an electoral liability. It's not at that point yet, but if North Shropshire goes badly it could be seen as a sign.
Still can't believe the number of people in this country who can't see him for the absolute fascist charlatan that he is
What good would Boris's resignation do? He'll only be replaced by another Tory
Expect to see him squirm when asked a direct yes/no by kier. He has two choices... Come clean or lie! Recent history has shown that he's not afraid of U-turns. I think the political fall out from 'we did have a party, we're sorry, lessons will be learnt' would be much less than lying to the house.
If I was Starmer
Ian Blackford of the SNP has already done that. He's established that when talking about specific events he can, with the agreement of the speaker use the word liar when referring to Johnson , which up until the PM-ship of Johnson was unparliamentary language.
It's not made any difference
jekkl - he may squirm but he will use his usual tactic = bluster, defend, deflect so the answer will be " there was no formal party, covid rules followed all the time and how about the party opposite stops doing something or other"
The thing about calling Johnson a liar is he has no defense as he is a proven liar. Youcan call him a philandering liar publicly and he cannot win a libel case as in libel you have an defense of " its true"
Just shows that the people who imposed lockdowns and all the rules we had to obey didn't believe they were necessary themselves. If they did they wouldn't continually break those rules and put themselves at risk. This isn't the first example and won't be the last. They have royally took the piss out of us all. Not sure when it will sink in that lockdowns do not work in the grand scheme of things. Its so counter productive and has created a huge ever growing list of so many other problems that no one seems to mention. There are many other things going on bar covid, its become a morbid almost sick obsession now. This country can't afford another lockdown anyway and now not many would obey it now.
I can't see how the Tories can survive this.
I can’t see how the Tories can survive this.
because people will keep voting for them.
Just shows that the people who imposed lockdowns and all the rules we had to obey didn’t believe they were necessary themselves. If they did they wouldn’t continually break those rules and put themselves at risk. This isn’t the first example and won’t be the last. They have royally took the piss out of us all. Not sure when it will sink in that lockdowns do not work in the grand scheme of things. Its so counter productive and has created a huge ever growing list of so many other problems that no one seems to mention. There are many other things going on bar covid, its become a morbid almost sick obsession now. This country can’t afford another lockdown anyway and now not many would obey it now.
I can’t see how the Tories can survive this.
Yup, a denier's dream come true.
Just shows that the people who imposed lockdowns and all the rules we had to obey didn’t believe they were necessary themselves.
No, it shows they believe that these rules, like lots of others, don't apply to them.
Can't be bothered pulling the rest of it apart.
Can everyone please email their Tory MP and moan like **** about this.
I know dumbojo will be replaced by another scumbag but let's try and give him a shit Christmas.
(for places like North Shropshire & Old Bexley) when does "house price wealth" get trumped by incompetence.
didn’t believe they were necessary themselves
Not at all. It’s game theory. If enough other people followed the rules, then transmission would be reduced and hospitals would be able to continue to offer treatment to people who needed it. They just think that it’s for the little people to do their bit, because ultimately they are selfish and consider themselves too important to do their bit.
Just checked 'The Sun' front page, and is's (party) way down the web page....
Klunk, If they are really selfish, only when they start losing loved ones because of the incompetence.
Has Stratton not resigned yet?
What is her actual job nowadays? She drifted out of the spokesperson role to become the Cop26 spokesperson but didnt really do that either.
The beeb really should have superimposed a lump of lard on that image.
Johnson is a liar.
Everyone tells lies, but we aren't all liars. A liar is someone who is a stranger to the truth, for whom deceit is a natural as breathing. Johnson lies almost as a reflex, his first instinct when questioned or challenged is to lie. He lies about big things (Brexit, Covid parties) and the completely trivial (Painting wooden buses?)
And why wouldn't he? Look where it has gotten him. He has lied his entire life, throughout his entire public and political career and he is now Prime ****ing Minister! Boris isn't even his name! The truth and rules are for little people.
The pattern is always the same. Lie. Lie some more. Obfuscate and deny. Deflect and distract.
Eventually the truth comes out and then comes the haughty mumbled contrition before the pattern repeats itself with the next lie. But the pattern has repeated itself so often now that the deceit is futile. Everyone knows he is lying, because that's what liars do. It's baked in. As soon as Johnson denies something everyone knows its true. Even his cheerleaders must just be secretly hoping it just goes away or the public don't care very much.
No one believes him because Johnson is a liar.
Just shows that the people who imposed lockdowns and all the rules we had to obey didn’t believe they were necessary themselves
Not really. So long as its only a small bunch of people breaking the rules then the lockdown still works. Its only when everyone else decides they are the small bunch who can break the rules that it all falls apart.
That's just not true. What it shows is that those in power feel that the rules don't apply to them. The people at that party knew that they don't fit the 'at risk' profile. As such they were willing to take that risk. Covid policy is all about protecting the vulnerable and the NHS from being overwhelmed should it run rampant.
Think about it the NHS was virtually overwhelmed despite the lockdowns. Without them it would have been tens (if not hundreds) of thousands needing simultaneous ICU care (when we have about 8000 beds).
Covid is highly contagious and creates very serious illness in enough in enough people for it to be extremely dangerous.
The link below is to an extremely credible article re its impact compared to flu (not that I particularly expect you to read it)
https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2514
The fact that this bunch of ****less chancers can't obey the rules that the scientists forced on them (correctly, they are scientists after all) doesn't mean they're not the correct rules for the time
LOL @ Boris isn't even his real name. 😂 nice one @richmtb
I'm at home today putting the tree up, what time is PMQs?
PMQs is at 1200. I usually have it on in the background, I think I might clock out for lunch at 1200 today and watch it! Mr Johnson pretty much always loses on points but today may be a quick knock-out, unless he finds an excuse to send some other deserving twot.
He usually finds a prior appointment or foreign trip when things get rough and sends a human shield in his place
What’s going to be interesting to see is how many Tory MPs are prepared to sit behind him and cheer him on. I think you’ll be seeing a lot of empty seats as they read their constituency inboxes this morning and make their excuses to give it a miss today
If the fat lad wasn’t on borrowed time already, he will be from today
Is Boris Johnson right on a technicality like this wasn't an "official" tory xmas party just a group who decided to organise one? Or is the issue still that this was either at No10 or HOP? For example my work have cancelled the company wide xmas party but my team (of 4) are still all going to dinner on thursday outside of the office. One thing I don't get is why the media are not making more of the JRM video and the fact everyone apart from Hancock has decided they will not be doing any TV / media stuff today. Im sure though in a few weeks people will forget as its only the political geeks (like myself) who will care long term.
Im sure though in a few weeks people will forget as its only the political geeks (like myself) who will care long term.
I’m not so sure. This one really seems to have cut through. People are easily making the comparisons between their own experiences last Christmas and Boris and chums having a jolly then smirking and laughing about it.
There seems to be a cross-party consensus amongst all kinds of voters that this is absolutely taking the piss, and people don’t generally like having the piss taken out of them
One thing I don’t get is why the media are not making more of the JRM video
Is it not a fake?
Is it not a fake?
oh, im not sure to be honest i just saw it doing the rounds on Twitter. You could well be right.
Sky have picked it up https://news.sky.com/story/this-party-is-not-going-to-be-investigated-by-the-police-in-a-years-time-rees-mogg-jokes-about-government-christmas-parties-12489616?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter but i mean the media would never clickbait surly...
Is it not a fake?
It does seem a bit odd but some newspapers are reporting it.
Im sure though in a few weeks people will forget as its only the political geeks (like myself) who will care long term.
We're still talking about the Barnard Castle eye test, and that put paid to Cummings in the end. This has partly brought that back but has squared it rather than doubled the effect. I don't see it being forgotten, even if it doesn't nail him immediately.
Sir Roger Gale (Tory) on R4 was quite reasonable actually. If there was a party, admit it, take the medicine and apologise. If there wasn't a party outright say so at the despatch box today, but do so in the knowledge that lying to parliament (sorry, misleading) is a resignation matter. But time's run out among the back benchers on just defecting with the 'all regulations were followed' line.
Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently...
Which everyone will then ignore because if the Tories can have a jolly old knees up, we all can.
Is Boris Johnson right on a technicality like this wasn’t an “official” tory xmas party just a group who decided to organise one?
No. Indoor gatherings of more than two people other than for specific exemptions was illegal. The governments own guidance made clear that a social gathering dressed up as a business meeting was not acceptable. However, organised it should be on the hook for £10K fixed penalty - that's what the government set the fine at for people organising illegal gatherings! If multiple people organised it, they each can apparently be fined. Was Boris the organiser? Probably not. Was he even complicit? Possibly not - but it seems unlikely that a competent PM is unaware that a party is happening in no 10 even if he has no part in organising or attending. He certainly knew about the one the week before (a leaving do) as he gave a quick speech and then left. In any case, he must have known in the last week as he's issued denials etc - that's what kills him, not the actual party.
Or is the issue still that this was either at No10 or HOP? For example my work have cancelled the company wide xmas party but my team (of 4) are still all going to dinner on thursday outside of the office.
No matter where they had it - at the time it was illegal to gather more than 2 people indoors in London for drinks, nibbles and party games.
One thing I don’t get is why the media are not making more of the JRM video
I'd think its a combination of:
1. its Rees Mogg - everyone expects him to make an arse of himself
2. his speech was after the scandal broke, so he wasn't admitting knowledge of the wrong doing at the time, just making light of it now (which is probably unwise - but if Jimmy Carr had said the same thing would we even if notices)
3. in the media circles I expect they have all been saying shit like this this week and so they don't really see anything scandalous about JRM speech.
To me the question is how many people have been sitting on this quietly saying nothing.
1. All the gov people who were at the party
2. All the people in gov who weren't at the party but knew it happened - there's half a dozen people in the video that broke last night who knew even if they weren't there
3. Media people who were apparently at the party
4. Anyone they spoke to, told, shared pics with
That's a lot of people keeping secrets, and who potentially have too much leverage on people in no 10!
Im sure though in a few weeks people will forget as its only the political geeks (like myself) who will care long term.
Well that depends who is drip-feeding this to the media and how much more they still have to go... probably also depends who gets fired as a result. You need to pick your scape goat carefully if they might have even more dirt on you!
Gavin Williamson must be laughing - his party scandal is just a footnote (although that is in part because they said "yip, we shouldn't have done this".
So even if Boris has to go (which I think is unlikely), what happens next Truss, Sunak, Raab, Gove, Patel? Putting all of those names into one sentence makes me shudder. Its like a horror show.
Pretty much the only Tory I would welcome as a PM is the one person they will never vote in, Rory Stewart. He is a remarkable, intelligent, considered and honest bloke, but even he has typically Tory voting record. Very much the best of a bad bunch scenario.
Just checked ‘The Sun’ front page, and is’s (party) way down the web page…
Private Eye are saying The Sun also held a big Xmas pissup against the rules last year, and that's why they're being slightly delicate about it
Johnson is a liar.
Everyone tells lies, but we aren’t all liars. A liar is someone who is a stranger to the truth, for whom deceit is a natural as breathing. Johnson lies almost as a reflex, his first instinct when questioned or challenged is to lie. He lies about big things (Brexit, Covid parties) and the completely trivial (Painting wooden buses?)
And why wouldn’t he? Look where it has gotten him. He has lied his entire life, throughout his entire public and political career and he is now Prime **** Minister! Boris isn’t even his name! The truth and rules are for little people.
The pattern is always the same. Lie. Lie some more. Obfuscate and deny. Deflect and distract.
Eventually the truth comes out and then comes the haughty mumbled contrition before the pattern repeats itself with the next lie. But the pattern has repeated itself so often now that the deceit is futile. Everyone knows he is lying, because that’s what liars do. It’s baked in. As soon as Johnson denies something everyone knows its true. Even his cheerleaders must just be secretly hoping it just goes away or the public don’t care very much.
No one believes him because Johnson is a liar.
This. However, worryingly, and depressingly...
people will keep voting for them.
...because he's lied so much that it's no longer really news, it's "priced in" to peoples' opinion of him.
Pretty much the only Tory I would welcome as a PM is the one person they will never vote in, Rory Stewart. He is a remarkable, intelligent, considered and honest bloke, but even he has typically Tory voting record. Very much the best of a bad bunch scenario.
he's not even an MP anymore is he?
We’re still talking about the Barnard Castle eye test, and that put paid to Cummings in the end.
Did it though?
He left Westminster,wasn't taken to task,and certainly doesn't seem to be going through any personal hardship.
The same goes for Handcock and a large number of thieving chancers.
Is it any surprise that they don't care about getting caught (at anything)when they watch how their PM performs.
As franksinatra says,get rid of the fly tipped sofa and who is left.
It is a true horror show and there are no bright lights on the horizon.
but even he has typically Tory voting record.
You can't survive in one of the two main parties without toeing the line, I would imagine.
Just another one of the joys of our dysfunctional FPTP democracy system.
Private Eye are saying The Sun also held a big Xmas pissup against the rules last year, and that’s why they’re being slightly delicate about it
this may be the thing that saves him! if lots of places had a "business meeting" that turned into "drinks after work" then there may be enough idiots who say "its just boris, he's one of us". This morning twitter suggested that even the NHS may have had some illicit after shift team gatherings!
You can’t survive in one of the two main parties without toeing the line, I would imagine.
Well, Corbyn became leader of the Labour, and his toes were never anywhere near the party line, but yeah.
You can’t survive in one of the two main parties without toeing the line, I would imagine.
But you can choose which party you want to represent. Any one who chooses the Tory party has failed at the first hurdle
The scumbags have been betrayed by backing Mr sleaze and Cummings.
They must be wondering if they want to get burnt again.
Let them know, write to them.
poly
Free MemberPretty much the only Tory I would welcome as a PM is the one person they will never vote in, Rory Stewart. He is a remarkable, intelligent, considered and honest bloke, but even he has typically Tory voting record. Very much the best of a bad bunch scenario.
he’s not even an MP anymore is he?
No he isn't, he used to be my MP and I liked him a lot even though I generally sit left of centre. The new guy Neil Hudson is a complete waste of space. He does nothing.
Time to take your seats....
Rory Stewart went in for mayor of London as an independent last time but pulled out as he wasn't really in the running. Shame.
So, he is going for "blame the staff" charming. He lives upstairs does he not?
'I was repeatedly assured'
Bullshit !!
Time to go Boris
Three senior Whitehall officials say further Covid restrictions will be announced imminently…
And you have to wonder if part of Plan B would be to ask people not to have a Christmas party (after all, if you're asking people to work from home...), but that's been shelved because of the latest Boris scandal.
Johnson has gone for buck passing... and he's furious and frustrated... why did no one tell him there was a party? I mean... he hasn't had a chance to ask anyone before today...
But he says he has been repeatedly reassured, sicne that clip emergfed, that there was no party and no rules were broken.
Still going for deniability then - I was assured but if people lied to me then I am only repeating what i was told. Not my fault, honest.....
Pathetic man.
He lives upstairs does he not?
I think he lives next door doesnt he? However I would agree he really is a charmer. Blaming not just the people at the party but even for last week when he was trying to confuse things.