Forum search & shortcuts

Boris Johnson!
 

Boris Johnson!

Posts: 13291
Free Member
 

@nickc
Was there anything that truly surprised you,or did you mostly think,yup I always thought/knew he was that kind of human?
I almost picked up a copy,I was curious to find out if any of the key puppet masters and enablers were revealed.


 
Posted : 11/05/2023 9:57 am
Posts: 35133
Full Member
 

And all these arrangements must all be purely transactional. I can’t believe he has any genuine friends.

I'm not sure. Seldon points out that one of his personal strengths is also one of his greatest political weaknesses. Once you're "on his side" he is loyal to the point of self-destruction. He will back you up even if the evidence says otherwise, which is fine for the average bloke on the street, admirable even. When you're the PM and your friends are sex pests, or taking money for dodgy political deals, or driving to Bernard Castle, not so much. Time and again Seldon points out that his first thoughts, his instinct (and often hand in hand with a really bad judge of character)  -without regards to the evidence, is how he then behaves towards threats or challenges to that person.

The trouble Johnson has is that his friends, becasue of the way he himself behaves, are often the worst sort of ner-do-wells, scoundrels and arseholes.


 
Posted : 11/05/2023 10:00 am
fasthaggis reacted
Posts: 35133
Full Member
 

@fashaggis, yep, just confirmed what I thought about him really. One thing that did surprise me was that I felt some sympathy for him, almost sorry for him. He's sort of delusional, and wholly unprepared for where his ambition drives him towards.

His political instincts (reform of social care, long term planning and an end to short termism, infrastructure spending on nuclear, and rail) are not wholly irrational, he just surrounded himself with either folks that are reformist, but destructive (Cummings) or politically opposite (Sunak, Rees-Mogg) and wouldn't do the work to either grip his party or force through what he wanted. That and was faced with challenges that he was wholly unable to manage; Brexit and Covid.


 
Posted : 11/05/2023 10:07 am
Posts: 5054
Free Member
 

That cartoon sets off my anti-Semitism radar, but I can’t decide if I’m just being over-sensitive or not.

Totally passed me by too, and when I heard the 'row' I went for a look. I'm still of the opinion it's irrelevant.


 
Posted : 11/05/2023 11:06 am
Posts: 4115
Free Member
 

Once you’re “on his side” he is loyal to the point of self-destruction.

An interesting idea - but to whom has he been so loyal? Not Cummings - he only had a job under Johnson for 16 months, and it was Johnson that pushed him out. Not his wives or girlfriends. Not his employers or publishers. Not his constituents.


 
Posted : 11/05/2023 11:08 am
Posts: 35133
Full Member
 

but to whom has he been so loyal?

Cummings? Yes certainly, Seldon makes the claim that once the Bernard Castle fiasco hit the papers there were many at No.10 who saw it as an opportunity to get shot of Cummings whom they realised was ultimately utterly destructive, whereas Johnson was the one to keenly support him, largely because his own view was that Lock-down and rules about Covid didn't really matter, so what's the fuss all about? Same with Pincher, same with Patterson, he couldn't, or wouldn't recognise that their failures to be so serious that they'd need to be sacked over them.

So perhaps loyalty is the wrong word, perhaps it's more a Johnsonian version of loyalty where he can recognise his own habits and failures in the people around him, and excuses that behaviour in them.

Edit: and I think that ultimately the difference in your list, is that those people saw how Johnson's behaviour was disloyal and rid themselves of him, not the other way around.


 
Posted : 11/05/2023 11:52 am
salad_dodger reacted
Posts: 34543
Full Member
 

The circus continues

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1661055950923481126?t=QJBhrJhDAg4nPcWkGoEIzw&s=19


 
Posted : 23/05/2023 7:15 pm
pondo reacted
Posts: 3546
Free Member
 

Perfectly timed leak to coincide with a recommendation of 10+ days suspension, and hence a suspension/byelection? Any fuss kicked up by people saying its a harsh recommendation now drowned out by even more evidence of his wrong doing. Genius!


 
Posted : 23/05/2023 10:17 pm
Posts: 20693
Full Member
 

The circus continues

No, no, no, that's not the story you're supposed to be thinking about, there's the joyous* news that the oversexed honey monster has been shagging again.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/19/boris-and-carrie-johnson-expecting-third-child-with-due-date-in-just-a-few-weeks

*Other adjectives are available...

Quite honestly I'm surprised he can find the time although I admit that his lawbreaking antics frequently seem to combine several misdemeanours into one, presumably to save some effort.
Like partying, shagging and then lying about it all in one night. Must save considerable resources to do it that way.


 
Posted : 23/05/2023 10:40 pm
Posts: 33263
Full Member
 

The circus continues

MrsMC says she no longer cares, it's too long ago.

I need to speak to a solicitor about unreasonable behaviour.


 
Posted : 23/05/2023 11:05 pm
twistedpencil and pondo reacted
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

More lockdown pissups revealed.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/24/undisclosed-covid-era-johnson-events-occurred-at-both-chequers-and-downing-street

Sunak says he's not behind this - lie.

Johnson says it's just a witch hunt - lie.

I think Sunak has gone too early on cutting Braverman and Johnson down to size given the UK electorate and its goldfish-like memory and intellect.

But whilst the government gets all horny about fighting itself, I'd much rather have a functioning, competent government.

🤦‍♂️


 
Posted : 25/05/2023 2:07 pm
Posts: 57422
Full Member
 

Its an absolutely delicious irony that if he'd payed his own legal fees instead of getting us mugs to foot the bill, none of this about the Chequers piss ups would ever have come to light


 
Posted : 25/05/2023 2:12 pm
Posts: 8028
Full Member
 

Although now he wants us to keep paying the bills but just not have the cabinet office as the client.
Hopefully they will tell him to piss off.
Either he gets it paid for by the taxpayer and the taxpayer via the cabinet office gets to review it or he pays it himself (well I say himself more likely he will sponge it from someone anyway).


 
Posted : 25/05/2023 2:17 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Its an absolutely delicious irony that if he’d payed his own legal fees instead of getting us mugs to foot the bill, none of this about the Chequers piss ups would ever have come to light

Yes, but we all know that Johnson was living day-to-day doing whatever was the easiest thing to get to 24 hours hence.

It's a true mark of his disdain for us that he couldn't even be arsed to plan properly for his lies.

But we elected him, so go figure...?


 
Posted : 25/05/2023 2:32 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

more likely he will sponge it from someone anyway

I hear Dodgy Dickie Sharp does a nice sideline in off the record financial advice.


 
Posted : 25/05/2023 8:55 pm
Posts: 28593
Free Member
 

This is nicely done:

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1662003462886883330

And it's the critical point when you are dealing with habitual and casual liars like Johnson. The small lies, taken in isolation, seem trivial and not worth bothering about. But they point to a failure of character which will lead to bigger and bigger lies, about things that really do matter.

It is why 'character' should still be important when we are assessing politicians. If you lie to your spouse, or to your boss, you'll lie about anything.

Also, Guto Harri seems a bit washed up and desperate. He knows he pinned his colours on a moral black hole in Boris, and now he can't get free and faces oblivion. Shame.


 
Posted : 26/05/2023 11:39 am
kelvin reacted
Posts: 57422
Full Member
 

I don't know who's done this for Newsthump, but its absolute genius


 
Posted : 26/05/2023 11:45 am
fasthaggis, kelvin, AD and 2 people reacted
Posts: 7097
Free Member
 

Bottom centre, is that Ginger Spice?


 
Posted : 26/05/2023 11:54 am
Posts: 1653
Full Member
 

Bottom centre, is that Ginger Spice?

Nah that's Truss complaining that we took her budget the wrong way surely?


 
Posted : 26/05/2023 12:10 pm
Posts: 33263
Full Member
 

This is nicely done:

That is simply fantastic. Emily Maitless let loose is a thing to behold


 
Posted : 26/05/2023 2:16 pm
Posts: 24870
Free Member
 

Fab twitter thread #aweekintory

https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1662095954906865664

favourite quotes

"Iain Duncan Smith, a child’s drawing of sublime idiocy superimposed onto a competitively evil gonad

"Jacob Rees-Mogg, a zombie Jarvis Cocker made entirely out of string cheese

"Nadine Dorries – Johnson’s very own Greyfriars Bobby who has made it halfway to being an idiot savant

"Rishi Sunak, Britain's first known spine donor


 
Posted : 26/05/2023 5:54 pm
pondo and kelvin reacted
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

made it halfway to being an idiot savant

🙂


 
Posted : 26/05/2023 6:13 pm
Posts: 34543
Full Member
 

Revelations coming in the Sunday papers about who was at Johnson's Chequers parties during lockdown

Meanwhile the fruitloops still loyal to Johnson are doing their best to trash the party for Sunak

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1662516620722413568?t=CvgUn-V8rEmKS8WvluBStw&s=19


 
Posted : 27/05/2023 10:37 pm
Posts: 6940
Full Member
 

Once we have Blojo’s honours list out of the way an equally / more controversial one comes around the corner.

Rotten bastards.


 
Posted : 27/05/2023 11:43 pm
salad_dodger reacted
Posts: 57422
Full Member
 

I wish this lot had as much interest in their alleged day jobs - actually running the country - as they do with plotting and scheming against each other.

It’s actually all they seem to do nowadays

Apparently Liz Truss is about to re-enter the rats-in-a-sack race with a stint on GeeBeebies too.

You couldn’t make it up

https://twitter.com/dcbmep/status/1662518342064766976?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ


 
Posted : 28/05/2023 11:49 am
Posts: 57422
Full Member
 

Johnson has until 4 o clock today to hand over his communications and diaries to the covid inquiry

The cabinet office is saying it won't do so as they have deemed them 'not to be relevant'

The sheer arrogance of it that Boris Johnson thinks he should be the arbiter of what is and isn't relevant to a public inquiry?

Par for the course though. Did anyone expect anything different?

https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/status/1663283335802568704?s=20


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 11:17 am
Posts: 35133
Full Member
 

Johnson has until 4 o clock today

I don't think anyone thinks they'll be handed over today at 4 do they? Thing is, it would appear that Boris' diaries and WhatsApp appear to implicate the rest of the then government in failing to pay any attention whatsoever to the rules that they expected everyone else to follow, so I expect that the Tories will actually put up a pretty well co-ordinated campaign to make sure these don't get into the public domain.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 11:40 am
Posts: 57422
Full Member
 

I expect that they contain all manner of incriminating evidence of both rule-breaking but also biblical levels of incompetence, implicating pretty much everyone in government.

They know that this issue (rightfully) still causes genuine anger amongst the electorate and they're obviously desperate that this stuff isn't made public.

I don't know about you, but if I was conducting an inquiry and somebody was insistent that a tranche of evidence was 'of no relevance' and they were going to previously unprecedented lengths to stop me seeing it, I'd be suspecting thats where the bodies are buried


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 11:52 am
funkmasterp, felltop, stumpyjon and 3 people reacted
Posts: 34543
Full Member
 

so I expect that the Tories will actually put up a pretty well co-ordinated campaign to make sure these don’t get into the public domain.

100% agree thetyll fight tooth & nail to keep it buried, they're being squeezed by general public on COVID incompetence & corruption as well as from the GBNEWS conspiracy clowns, who would otherwise be their normal fanbase


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 11:52 am
Posts: 35133
Full Member
 

I don’t know about you, but if I was conducting an inquiry...

Indeed, the harder they claim that these should remain private, the harder I'd push to have them released.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 12:03 pm
funkmasterp and kelvin reacted
Posts: 11605
Full Member
 

Deadline extended to Thursday now...so even more time to delete/destroy or create more confusion and mince.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 12:26 pm
kelvin reacted
Posts: 31150
Full Member
 

Well, it turns out that Tom was right again... if he was talking about what Johnson would be doing in the 2020s, rather than the UK population more generally...

https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1204421063075123202?s=20


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 12:51 pm
Posts: 4710
Free Member
 

I expect that they contain all manner of incriminating evidence of both rule-breaking but also biblical levels of incompetence, implicating pretty much everyone in government.

They know that this issue (rightfully) still causes genuine anger amongst the electorate and they’re obviously desperate that this stuff isn’t made public.

I don’t know about you, but if I was conducting an inquiry and somebody was insistent that a tranche of evidence was ‘of no relevance’ and they were going to previously unprecedented lengths to stop me seeing it, I’d be suspecting thats where the bodies are buried

It absolutely stinks of a full-on cover-up being undertaken and it's so obvious they are doing so then the bodies that are buried must be either so numerous that it genuinely takes this long to bury them all or they really don't care that everyone knows it is what they are doing!

One thing that has concerned me though is that for every company I have worked for they have always had it in my contract that they have the right to inspect any correspondence that involves work. When requested it must be handed over promptly and that any correspondence should be done by work emails, phones etc anyway. How does this lot get away with having secret channels of communication that they can hide and lose/doctor? That alone smacks of incompetence, especially in the security services who protect them.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 1:05 pm
kelvin reacted
 kilo
Posts: 6940
Free Member
 

The cabinet office is saying it won’t do so as they have deemed them ‘not to be relevant’

Shame that decision isn’t theirs to make. There seems to be very little reason to withhold the material, the Inquiries Act is fairly clear cut on all of this.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 1:11 pm
kelvin reacted
Posts: 9219
Full Member
 

Deadline extended to Thursday now…so even more time to delete/destroy or create more confusion and mince.

This is documentation already handed to thecpolice, isn't it? If they didn't have it, why have they fought scrutiny?

This has a mild End Of Days feel about it - we live in hope...


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 1:25 pm
salad_dodger and kelvin reacted
 db
Posts: 1927
Free Member
 

Being a bit dumb here. How do we know what is released is actually a proper log of the messages? They clearly don't come direct from the source. So is there an audit trail from WhatsApp that is cross checked. Or does someone just type them in Word and say yep, that's what was in the message?

Tories also now seem to saying its about personal privacy. Which I find a bit funny as the party who is pushing the Online Safety Bill.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 1:43 pm
Posts: 35133
Full Member
 

The cabinet office is saying it won’t do so as they have deemed them ‘not to be relevant’

The cabinet office is also trying to say that they haven't kept all of them anyway as they don't routinely keep copies of private messages. It can't have it both ways, they've either seen the messages and judged them irrelevant, or haven't kept them and don't know if they're irrelevant or not.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 1:47 pm
Posts: 57422
Full Member
 

It looks like they've finished destroying all incriminating evidence. From the Guardian just now...

Downing Street says there is 'no requirement to record every single communication'

Downing Street has said there is no requirement to retain every WhatsApp message after the Cabinet Office told the Covid-19 inquiry it does not hold all of the evidence requested surrounding Boris Johnson.

The prime minister’s official spokesperson said: “We do not permanently store or record every WhatsApp.

“The substantive and relative content, including decision making, is copied across to the official record in appropriate format for preservation.

“We wouldn’t, as is standard, retain irrelevant material. There’s no requirement to record every single communication for the public record.”

Sunak’s spokesperson added: “It is down to individuals to decide what personal information they are able to hand over, but there is a process for the government-owned material.

“There’s a distinction between government-owned material, that would need to be disclosed by the government, if it was their own personal information, then obviously they are able to make a judgment.”

Sunak and Johnson are also not meeting or due to speak this week, despite previous reports claiming they were due to do so.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 1:52 pm
 db
Posts: 1927
Free Member
 

Ahh, that kind of answers my question. What is being handed over is not WhatsApp messages. Its a record of some WhatsApp messages that may or may not be relevant to the running of the country depending on if the sender wants them to be.

Totally transparent 😉


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 1:59 pm
kelvin reacted
Posts: 8416
Free Member
 

Surely all they have to do is delete any dodgy messages from their account? Would only take a few minutes especially if it was done on the PC web app.

Then let them log in to your account on the web app and see the rest of the stuff.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 2:31 pm
kelvin reacted
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

And to think, poor old Dick Nixon had to listen to hours of himself ranting and raving to find the bits he needed to delete. Different times.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 4:44 pm
Posts: 9158
Full Member
 

Then let them log in to your account on the web app and see the rest of the stuff.

Yeah, but then they would see the missing messages in a conversation and the other people involved in it and be able to get the conversation from them. Or, if it was criminal, request the logs and data from Meta which would show the timestamp, device and user doing the deleting. I'm not a lawyer, but that deletion of evidence during what is/might be a criminal investigation and after requesting the data, may be seen as obstruction of justice, which is a criminal offence.

That's leaving aside the use of personal communications channels for official government business to avoid scrutiny (which is against the ministerial code?) and the use of non-E2E encrypted services for official government business.


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 4:51 pm
Posts: 33263
Full Member
 

I'm not entirely clear why it's the Cabinet Office being held out here - they will only do what their political masters tell them.

The sensible thing would be for everything to be handed over to the enquiry unredacted and for the enquiry to redact anything that is not relevant. I mean, that's what the Official Secrets Act I signed is for, shirley.

I suspect that Boris's diary went:

14:00 Francesca
15.00 Svetlana
16.00 Valerie
Etc
Etc


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 4:59 pm
kelvin reacted
Posts: 57422
Full Member
 

The sensible thing would be for everything to be handed over to the enquiry unredacted and for the enquiry to redact anything that is not relevant.

Up until this gang of shysters arrived on the coat-tails of Brexit, I think most people would just assume that would be what happened with this kind of thing

Not any more. Now its the polar opposite. You just expect them to do everything in their power to ensure that that absolutely doesn't happen.

They don't do accountability

For good reason


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 5:05 pm
kelvin reacted
 kilo
Posts: 6940
Free Member
 

The sensible thing would be for everything to be handed over to the enquiry unredacted and for the enquiry to redact anything that is not relevant. I mean, that’s what the Official Secrets Act I signed is for, shirley.

That’s not how a Public Inquiry works though. In theory if evidence is tendered to the Inquiry it will be held in public and / or published unless the witness requests redaction or secrecy and this is agreed by the Chair. Openness is the norm and redaction the variation - hence the name Public Inquiry. The bar for redaction is usually quite high, it is clearly explained in the act, and usually it requires the witness to show a real risk of harm - not it’s a secret or confidential or I don’t want people to know but why publication will cause real harm. The Inquiry team won’t know what needs to be redacted that’s why it is up to the witness to apply. The inability to demonstrate harm is also why Johnson et al are on a bit of a sticky wicket (IANAL)


 
Posted : 30/05/2023 6:01 pm
Page 378 / 395