Oh yes, Johnson hasn't the worry of a very organised and single minded internal group like May faced, but that doesn't mean that they won't organise themselves.
There is no possibility of a parliamentary vote of no confidence in the government.
You simply can't make that assumption, and in fact the situation now in comparison to the last time it happen (Callaghan in the 1970's) are similar. Declining economy, Scotland act (early attempts at devolution, it's not a million miles away from The Border Protocol issue)...besides which, again, Brady hasn't ruled out the possibility of a confidence vote, and if Johnson loses that one, then there'll be a new leader, they may feel (like May) that they need their own mandate.
If one thing is clear about politics currently, lots of the certainties around it no longer hold true.
They do need to coalesce around a credible leadership candidate, though, and Jeremy Hunt is not that thing.
Johnson has effectively neutered the threat from Rishi by leaking his financial affairs (my assumption that he was the source of the leaks), and the news that he lost 11bn down the back of the sofa by not hedging against interest rate rises should be the final death knell to his political ambitions.
I guess it’s always a lot easier to criticise than to offer solutions.
Why proffer solutions that will enable the clown circus to limp on for some months more. Let them wallow in their own ordure and expose their incompetence to the undecided so that when the time comes we get a more balanced parliament.
You simply can’t make that assumption
Of course you can make that assumption. There has only been one successful vote of no confidence in the government in the last 98 years, and the then government certainly didn't have an 80 seat majority.
What no confidence votes do is force ruling party backbenchers to rally behind their government. If you believe Tory MPs are going to bring down their own government dream on.
The last time disaffected Tory backbenchers rallied round Johnson was when one of their own defected to Labour.
A good article in this mornings Guardian by Bob Kerslake, the chair of the Peabody Group of Housing Associations, taking apart the whole ludicrous ‘policy’
Right to buy put homes in the hands of landlords. Rehashing it will do the same
And a more literal interpretation from Newsthump
Banks confirm they will happily give a mortgage for a £250,000 house to UC claimants on £350 a month
As an aside - there is a good reason not many people are left in the Starmer thread and it isn't because Starmer is (insert criticism word) it was starting to feel like one of those arguments in the pub when people just shout the same things at each other and nobody listens, which happens around here quite a lot. People who wanted a drink and a lively and interesting discussion moved outside to the garden bar.
I also agree that very few people want to consider or talk about the alternative to the Tories, which is presumably why this thread appears to have a huge amount of contributors whilst the Starmer thread has comparatively very few.
This is the reason I post more on the Starmer thread than on here. It's all very well whining about how terrible the tories are, but no one seems interested in what a proper alternative could be like. There was an alternative for a few years not so long ago, but many of the same people who whine about the tories spent even more time whining about Corbyn. I can only conclude that what most supposed left-leaning types on here want is a nice, boring, friendly version of the tory party in charge.
I can only conclude that what most supposed left-leaning types on here want is a nice, boring, friendly version of the tory party in charge.
Yep, the left leaning section of the voting public that supported Corbyn (or policies/ parties like him) is the smallest constituency of the voting public in the UK by long way.
Oh Christ! One of them has escaped from the Starmer thread and is now trying to derail this one
Now, now dear…. come along with me and we’ll just pop you back in there so the 5 of you can carry on shouting at each other…
nickc Full Member
besides which, again, Brady hasn’t ruled out the possibility of a confidence vote, and if Johnson loses that one, then there’ll be a new leader, they may feel (like May) that they need their own mandate.
Weren't a bunch of senior Tories trotting out a line a while back that any change of leader/PM would necessitate a general election? I think they were doing it to scare their backbenchers away from submitting letters to the 1922 committee, but their words may come back to haunt them if Johnson does resign or gets forced out.
People who wanted a drink and a lively and interesting discussion moved outside to the garden bar.
Which is what this thread is about. I feel that I'm sitting in the beer garden everyday, as I hear people whining endlessly how terrible the Tories are. It's great.
Weren’t a bunch of senior Tories trotting out a line a while back that any change of leader/PM would necessitate a general election? I think they were doing it to scare their backbenchers away from submitting letters to the 1922 committee, but their words may come back to haunt them if Johnson does resign or gets forced out
Their mistake was trusting someone as inherently untrustworthy as Johnson in the first place. They knew full well what they would get when they made him leader and now we are where we are
If they’re still delusional enough to think that Johnson has any loyalty to them or views the Tory party as anything more than a vehicle for his ambition then they may be in for a shock
Underneath that bumbling exterior he’s a vicious and vindictive bastard and would pull the whole house of cards down in an instant if he felt it had served it’s purpose to him personally
I wouldn’t rule anything out when it comes to Boris. He’ll do what he’s done all his life, put himself first and walk away to leave everybody else to deal with the smouldering wreckage
then there’ll be a new leader, they may feel (like May) that they need their own mandate.
The reason Theresa May called an early general election was because all the opinion polls (before the election was actually called) claimed that she would easily win a huge majority.
Boris Johnson did exactly the same thing for exactly the same reason.
Gordon Brown didn't call an early general election because all the opinion polls suggested that he risked losing it.
No Tory leader will call an early general election because it is "the right thing to do". They will only call an early general election if they feel it will leave them stronger.
What Tory leader is likely to feel that they can be in a stronger position than an 80 seat majority?
but their words may come back to haunt them if Johnson does resign or gets forced out.
Nah that was then and this is now. Its a completely different scenario for blindingly obvious reasons which shouldnt need explaining.
If you do carry on demanding an explanation then its dead cat time.
As a casual recent example just look at Rees-Mogg and his "May had 113 mps vote against her so the people have spoken and she should go" vs now when Johnson didnt rather worse.
77 seat majority I think? And about to be 73 after a couple of byelections....
70 if you like.
I would like minus 70 ernielynch but I am not Queen yet!
As an aside – there is a good reason not many people are left in the Starmer thread and it isn’t because Starmer is (insert criticism word)
I think the primary reason is that Starmer gives us very little to discuss.
As an aside – there is a good reason not many people are left in the Starmer thread and it isn’t because Starmer is (insert criticism word)
I think the primary reason is that Starmer gives us very little to discuss.
Well it's had more posts than this thread, so there must be something!
I usually stay well out of the Starmer thread though - despite being a Labour voter, donator and union member, I wouldn't really feel comfortable expressing an opinion there.
It's much more comfortable to come in here and call Johnson a ****!
Well it’s had more posts than this thread, so there must be something!
No it’s just the same few people being constantly completely correct concerning KS.
It’s much more comfortable to come in here and call Johnson a ****!
Something we can all agree on!
It’s much more comfortable to come in here and call Johnson a ****!
Yes it's definitely easier to criticise Johnson than it is to defend Starmer.
No it’s just the same few people being constantly completely correct concerning KS.
What a load of bollox. Is there some post-brexit thread rule where everyone has to agree with each other? The Starmer thread is the only political thread on here where two sides of an argument are posted, along with a lot of discussion in between. Unlike this thread, the brexit thread and dare I say it the Ukraine thread where dissenting voices are not tolerated.
Unlike this thread, the brexit thread and dare I say it the Ukraine thread where dissenting voices are not tolerated.
Every now and again I post a dissenting opinion on this thread and then leave it for a while to carry on its usual trajectory. The brexit thread I have never posted on although I do regularly read it, I particularly like gardentiger/dannyh's posts. The Ukraine thread I stopped reading a long time ago so have no idea what is happening there.
where dissenting voices are not tolerated
This is not a thing. “Dissenting voices” might not find much common agreement with many other posters, but that’s not the same thing.
Yes it’s definitely easier to criticise Johnson than it is to defend Starmer.
Something to agree on.
Now… back to the Boris Johnson show…
What a load of bollox Is there some post-brexit thread rule where everyone has to agree with each other?
Not at all.
Ymmv, but I find it quite a tedious thread with a few big hitters constantly pontificating and little else. It’s not about disagreeing or dissent.
the Ukraine thread where dissenting voices are not tolerated.
Not tolerated? I thought you just got debated with for talking cobblers? Didn’t realise you’d be cancelled.
OK now we are arguing about the arguing - that was my fault and I do apologise!
In many ways this is a very British thread. Expressing disapproval is a very British characteristic.
And complaining about the awfulness of the Tories is about as useful as complaining about how awful the weather is - which of course is what Brits like to complain about most.
Carry on being British
This government has really led me to doubt the claim that things go better with coke.
In many ways this is a very British thread. Expressing disapproval is a very British characteristic.
Shits getting real, comrade
I’ve tutted loudly and rolled my eyes on at least three occasions this week.
And that’s as close to a revolution as we’re going to get in this country
Expressing disapproval is a very British characteristic...Carry on being British
I’m Irish actually.
Oh dear someone's left the door open, they've now all escaped from the Starmer thread.
that’s as close to a revolution as we’re going to get in this country
Replacing the awfulness of the Tories with something substantially different and better shouldn't require a revolution.
But perhaps you are right and everyone should just lie down, close their eyes, and think of England.
As Thatcher famously said, "there is no alternative".
I’ve tutted loudly and rolled my eyes on at least three occasions this week.
I've sighed audibly while reading a headline, it's that bad.
I’ve sighed audibly while reading a headline, it’s that bad.
Maybe we're getting close to this stage...
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But perhaps you are right and everyone should just lie down, close their eyes, and think of England.
That’s just what happens in this country. The establishment have manufactured a myth over decades. It’s all ‘stuff upper lip’ this and ‘keep calm and carry on’ that. Quiet desperation and suffering in silence
Not for us the frightful Gallic stuff of petrol bombs and dumping horse manure on municipal buildings. How uncouth
Better to sigh to oneself and seek solace in a nice cup of tea having just been roughly buggered by your housemaster
It's a myth that Britain doesn't have a revolutionary past: the Civil War, Chartism, General Strike, Victoria was terrified of going to Manchester out of fear of revolutionary assassins. No ruling class is there forever despite what they'd have you believe.
OK now we are arguing about the arguing
Now that really is peak STW!
OK now we are arguing about the arguing
No we’re not.
Victoria was terrified of going to Manchester out of fear of revolutionary assassins.
They all live in Hebden Bridge nowadays
OK now we are arguing about the arguing
No we’re not.
Well you should be. People like you are part of the problem because.....reasons....
Oh dear someone’s left the door open, they’ve now all escaped from the Starmer thread.
Maybe the limit of 100 loops around the same discussion point has been hit.
They’re all out now…
I love that Government is always so far behind the times, finally recognising that Netflix exists and is apparently something to aspire to without having yet caught up with reality.