@BillMC - I just stay away from the Keir Starmer thread nowadays and stick to this, football and occasionally even some stuff about bikes
For example: Today I learnt what carbon gripper paste is and went to buy some. I had been unaware of its existence until yesterdays road ride when I started getting that sinking feeling with my new blingy carbon seatpost 😂
It just gets worse. So here he is now promising homes for all, reduced taxes and using a Labour slogan to promote it. All with no substance behind it.
He’s got nothing, just sound bites of what he thinks people want to hear to keep himself in a job. It’s so transparent it’s painful.
Meanwhile, fuel is at £2 per litre, rail goes on strike in 2 weeks, food shortages are being announced from which panic buying will start…. Jesus!
they hadn’t actually sought any independent legal advice
Worse than that. They specifically told people working on possible legislation (many of whom have good knowledge of international law, trade and treaties) not to question the legality of the proposals. Wilful blindness. Something essential to keep "the project" moving in the face of facts and reality.
That may be so Binners - but BoJo the Clown has to get the legislation to disapply the NIP past UK Parly. This may be a problem for him..... I am buying popcorn.
Today I learnt what carbon gripper paste is
Really good for dropper posts as well. Stops you having to clamp them too tight to stop the fixed part of the post dropping in the frame. Good for bars in stems as well, not just carbon ones... etc etc.
I agree absolutely 100% with everything that @binners has written on this thread.
Although I did already know what carbon gripper paste was.
I wish I shared your confidence @hels and I hope you're right, but I seem to recall saying similar things many many times, when the Brexit proceedings were becoming more and more hardline, yet they all passed.
The Tory party is deranged when it comes to Brexit, and Boris has purged the party of non cult members, so I think this legislation, no matter how barking mad and incredibly destructive will simply sail through with all but a handful of abstentions on the Tory benches
We are truly ****ed!!!
Forgot to mention it the other day, did anyone else catch the soundbite of Johnson saying "Nothing and no one will stop me from carrying on as PM"
Did I miss the context, or has he finally gone full on Banana Republic
Another few months and he'll be wearing full military regalia, Gadaffi style, including a chest full of medals he's awarded himself
This may be a problem for him
Oh contraire... the "establishment" trying to stop him "getting things done" (ie. breaking Britain however he sees fit) is exactly what he needs, and exactly what these "policies" are highlighted by him for. Be it the UK courts trying to stop the government from breaking laws (as it tears up the asylum system), or the UK elected parliamentarians trying to stop him from breaking his own commitments made at the last election (undoing his own "oven ready" Brexit arrangements)... it's all about Johnsons being the strong man that takes on the status quo. Populism. The fight is what it's all about. That's where he gets his support from.
Forgot to mention it the other day, did anyone else catch the soundbite of Johnson saying “Nothing and no one will stop me from carrying on as PM”
Did I miss the context, or has he finally gone full on Banana Republic
Yes, I remember that, at PMQs. The context is that he's a complete ****:
EDIT
in fact what he actually says is "Nothing, and no-one, least of all her [Angela Eagle], is going to stop us, from getting on, er, with delivering, ah, mumble, [Tory backbench roars of approval]"
So it's not quite as bad as what was commonly reported.
Friendly reminder: The Tories have always messed up the economy no matter what anyone ever tells you.
This time it's on the streets though.
That brief bit of elation when your Uncle got you excited about British Gas shares was very much the highlight.
If you see Stan tell him not to bother because the future costs to us all were pretty dismal.
Walk around any city & you’ll see dozens if not hundreds of unused flats above shops.
Basically un-usable for anyone with small children who require some outside time and a place to run around in that doesn't require a walk to achieve it.
Brought home to me by my daughter's partner's kids who visited for the long weekend. The garden was a god send as they spent all day in it when the weather was dry. The wet day was a nightmare of frustration for them, especially the autistic/ADHD one.
molgrips – if you have a secure tenancy and rent is a lot cheaper than buying without all the hassle of home ownership then renting makes sense for a great many folk. This is how it works all over europe. No need to worry about house repair bills, no need to worry about interest rate rises and the reduced cost means you can build up savings or a pension.
Perhaps yes, but you still are handing over money to a rich person. And it's not all good news. when I rented in Germany the agency fees and deposit were huge - many thousands. This and other factors made it hard to actually find a new place and move if you wanted to. The short term tenancy we actually needed was very hard to come by, as was a furnished flat. This means that if you actually want to be mobile, as I did as a young person in the UK, it was very much more difficult.
What this means is that we need housing supply that is actually managed to serve the needs and wants of the whole population. So we should have some secure tenancies, some flexible, and easy paths to ownership for those who want it as well as social housing. But that is the opposite of what Tories stand for - they just want to let everything sort itself out, which invariably leads to poorer people being screwed over.
It doesn't have to be this shit.
People on benefits buying houses? If you've more than £16k you don't get benefits. Even with a 100% mortgage you've got stamp duty, conveyancing fees, removals costs, ....it is complete cods and they know it.
we need housing supply that is actually managed to serve the needs and wants of the whole population
i.e. houses are for living in, not treated as asset. Like I said, 100% estate inheritance tax will do that for you. It'd be wildly unpopular though.
You are probably right Binners - you usually are. Still, I like to think that the nodding dogs on the Tory back benches have been shown recently to be much less noddy, and may grow some moral fibre on such a big thing as Northern Ireland, or perhaps when they have to do it publicly rather than in a secret vote they may not have the backbone. One can hope!
I am rubbish at math - with a current government majority of 77 - how many of the 140 with no confidence have to cross the floor - is that 39? Edit - or abstain - I guess that number would be 78. Or even less if the Sinn Fein turn up. Again, unlikely to happen but popcorn would be spilt!
Hope grows! From the Guardian:
"Given the tumult of the Brexit days, Tory MPs said they faced a “nerve-wrecking wait” for the publication of the bill. When it starts its progression through parliament it is expected to trigger a significant number of rebellions because many MPs believe it could break the deal signed by the UK and EU.
Today the senior Conservative backbencher Sir Bernard Jenkin said he voted for the withdrawal agreement “against my better judgment” and added that if the bill did not seriously improve the chances of restoring the executive in Stormont, “I will vote against it”."
Hope you got the non gritty carbon paste? the gritty stuff scratches the sh*t out of the mating services. You'll hear the sandpaper like noise if you have this type. Horrid.
The non gritty stuff works just as well and doesn't scratch everything to hell.👍
This is why I have an almost full tube of the gritty stuff as I bought it before a thread on here wised me up.😁
Moving on from putting social housing in order, I wonder when they'll look at their own house...?
https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/status/1534821628445696002?t=lPnL99TMfmJIkrEEhCqhpg&s=19
Like I said, 100% estate inheritance tax will do that for you. It’d be wildly unpopular though.
Especially amongst those people who shout most loudly about meritocracy and how people should rise naturally to their talent level.
Today the senior Conservative backbencher Sir Bernard Jenkin said he voted for the withdrawal agreement “against my better judgment” and added that if the bill did not seriously improve the chances of restoring the executive in Stormont, “I will vote against it
The problem with that @hels is that the DUP are demanding the complete tearing up of the NIP, telling the EU to shove their deal and going full rogue state and break international law as the condition to re-enter power-sharing at Storemont
Bernard Jenkin and the rest of the ERG headbangers thought Borises oven-ready deal was capitulation to the EU and wanted No Deal. It these people rebel it’s because they think that the UK has compromised too much already. They’re completely hatstand!
These are the people who are now calling the shots. Again.
Like I said… we are truly ****ed! The agenda is being dictated by bowler-hatted, orange sash wearing, ‘no surrender!’ sectarian fruit loops and ultra- hardline Brexiteer nut jobs
Here you are TJ, especially for you - as you didn't like the last opinion poll here is the very latest one which was conducted yesterday and today and gives Labour a massive 8% lead over the Tories:
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-39/
Unfortunately according to the swingometer those figures if repeated in a general election it would result in no party winning and Labour 22 seats short of a Commons majority.
And as the 13% for the LibDems suggests that they would only secure approximately 11 seats that would still allow the Tories to use the "Labour being held to ransom by the SNP" attack line.
A lot of Tories must be feeling very smug that despite all the purely self-inflicted damage to themselves, and all the open goals presented to Labour, if there was a general election under the current situation the most likely result would be a weak, probably unstable, Labour minority government, pursuing a tory-lite agenda.
Clearing the path for a stable Tory majority government after a GE well before the full Parliamentary term.
If you see
StanSid tell him not to bother because the future costs to us all were pretty dismal.
This basically sums up the last couple of pages of posts saying what a pointless loads of bollocks his "help for homebuyers" scheme is alongside all the other empty promises.
the 13% for the LibDems suggests that they would only secure approximately 11 seats
Isn’t our voting system odd. Less than 2% of the seats predicted to represent 13% of those that vote for that party.
Clearing the path for a stable Tory majority government
If the past 30 years or so are anything to go by, this is an oxymoron.
It would still be riddled with different factions which would inevitably lead to internal strife.
The idea that you need a “majority” government (that only represents a minority of voters) to get “stability” is clearly nonsense. Not every country is Italy.
This basically sums up the last couple of pages of posts saying what a pointless loads of bollocks his “help for homebuyers” scheme is alongside all the other empty promises
I’m at the point know where I’m thinking ‘what’s the point?’. Why do they want to cling on to power when they clearly have no intention of doing anything with it.
There’s no agenda, no ideology, no plan… nothing
They don’t even seem bothered about tearing up workers rights and the rest of it, post-Brexit, which I’d sort of taken as a given
They blurt out policies like a journalist with Tourette’s but don’t follow anything up with any actions at all
They’re all just squatting their in the cabinet room presiding over absolutely nothing. Like even the slightest thing is all just too much trouble
Just puffed up ego’s and catatonic laziness. Photo ops and ministerial cars. High viz jackets and long lunches
That’s it
It’s absolutely pathetic, but I suppose it’s better than the alternative where they actually do stuff
Perish the thought
If the past 30 years or so are anything to go by, this is an oxymoron.
Not really. We currently have a stable government, irrespective of the precarious position of the current Tory leader.
There is no realistic possibility of the current government collapsing and being forced to call an early general election. The Tories will almost certainly remain in power until at least 2024, although legally iirc they don't need to call a general election until 2025.
There is no reason to assume that a Labour minority government would enjoy the same level of stability, let alone be more stable. The last Labour minority government collapsed much earlier than expected forcing an unscheduled general election to be called.
Unstable governments have a significantly negative effect on the economy, apart from the obvious political consequences, lack of predictable direction, and an inability to implement election committments.
Obviously playing down the negative consequences of a minority government has its attraction for Starmer's cheerleaders as that increasingly looks like the very best that he is likely to achieve. And he probably won't even achieve that.
Another few months and he’ll be wearing full military regalia, Gadaffi style, including a chest full of medals he’s awarded himself
Did you miss the Platinum Jubilee? 😉
Hopefully one day we’ll only have majority governments when a majority of voters support it.
Unstable governments have a significantly negative effect on the economy, apart from the obvious political consequences, lack of predictable direction, and an inability to implement election committments.
Sounds very much like our current ‘stable’ government to be honest. The only major manifesto commitment they have appeared to deliver is brexit, and not even that according to some of their own MP’s
Whichever Tory nonentity is on QT tonight has just been laughed at by the audience as he tried and failed to explain how Borises latest brain fart about forcing housing associates to sell homes is meant to alleviate housing issues
I think everyone can see it for what it is
A right load of old bollocks
Sounds very much like our current ‘stable’ government to be honest. The only major manifesto commitment they have appeared to deliver is brexit
I wasn't of course suggesting that a stable Tory government is a good result for the country, apologies if that is how it came across. Rather I was pointing out the advantages of a stable government over an unstable one. The Tories have long exploited this fear in recent times, first Cameron and then Theresa May with her 'strong and stable' mantra.
The fact that there isn't lack of certainty concerning whether a government will survive the next couple of years does have a positive effect on the economy of any country .
Furthermore I am constantly hearing, on this forum anyway, that the government can do whatever it likes because of its 80 seat majority, and therefore not to expect the opposition to be able to do anything.
Indeed some people even go as far as to claim that Labour doesn't need to have any alternative policies until campaigning starts for the next general election, such is the hold that the Tories allegedly have on political power.
If the Tories are not delivering on manifesto promises then it is due to incompetence or a complete lack of commitment rather than because they are weak and unstable.
Raise your eyes up from the floor. Stable governments persist in countries where no one party holds a majority of seats. Germany being the most obvious example.
Minority governments and coalition governments are not the same thing.
The last coalition government in the UK was perfectly stable. It lasted its entire parliamentary term.
The last minority government in the UK was not stable. It did not last its entire parliamentry term.
HTH
It does grate me a tad that people spend so much time trying to figure out why the Tories are so awful, or worse didn't expect the Tories to be so bad then spend so much time in this thread being staggered at their behaviour.
I mean, they're Tories. Wedded to an impossible to reconcile ideology for reasonable brains.
We really should be giving Labour a difficult time too as they're the only ones capable of offering up something better and putting it to them.
Or is it embarrassing that Labour didn't quite deliver the goods you thought? - so easier to hide behind what the Tories have done wrong rather than what Labour have done right?
That said I understand the need for a Tory frustration chamber.
But hey the Starmer thread is a quiet place these days.
If you see Stan Sid tell him not to bother because the future costs to us all were pretty dismal.
Of course! It's a distant memory.
The last minority government in the UK was not stable. It did not last its entire parliamentry term.
The last minority government only existed because the previous majority government called an early election and did not last its entire parliamentary term. And most PMs in my lifetime have lost their position because they were ejected or quit while head of a majority government. Stability isn’t an automatic trait of majority government, even in the UK (where they tend to only have minority support anyway… cuckoo governments ruling without true consent).
I mean, they’re Tories. Wedded to an impossible to reconcile ideology for reasonable brains.
You would need to be naive to think that the Tories actually believe the nonsense they tell voters. The point is that firstly with a compliant press and a weak and massively unconfident opposition they are very successful in creating widely believed and lasting myths.
Take the Thatcher myth of low taxation and small government, 40 years later many people still believe that those two goals were achieved by Thatcher despite the reverse being actually true.
A more recent myth is the one which, massively helped by the LibDems, claimed the need for the elimination of the budgetary deficit within the term of one parliament.
These myths were indepensable in helping the Tories to win power. The second point is that on the back of these myths the Tories have been highly successful in shifting wealth away from ordinary people and into the hands of the class which they exist to serve.
Despite all the claims of incompetence and stupidity the Tories are actually extremely good at serving their own self-interests and holding on to political power.
I agree that this thread is clearly obsessed with discussing the awfulness of the Tories, it's almost as if some people have just discovered it. I also agree that very few people want to consider or talk about the alternative to the Tories, which is presumably why this thread appears to have a huge amount of contributors whilst the Starmer thread has comparatively very few. I guess it's always a lot easier to criticise than to offer solutions.
Kelvin if you are seriously claiming that minority governments are no less stable than majority governments you have lost the plot mate. I know you want to suggest that there is nothing inherently unstable about minority governments because it is the very best likely outcome of the next general election but it is frankly ridiculous.
There is no realistic possibility of the current government collapsing and being forced to call an early general election
Given it's performance so far, that's a somewhat risky prediction. There's every possibility of it collapsing. Any organisation is only as good as it's leadership, and more and more of it's backbenchers are realising that's it's hollow at it's centre, and given the result of the confidence vote, the Cabinet can't rely on the support of their own backbenchers for some of their more outlandish policies. (Rwanda and unilateral dismantling of the Irish border protocol for example)
Brady hasn't ruled out another confidence vote. Ministers have resigned and more and more Tory MPs are publicly voicing or writing their disapproval, and Johnson is as unpopular amongst much of the conservative voting public as it's possible to be. Two by-elections are coming, the Tories may just make a calculation based on that performance as their chances at the next election with Johnson as leader.
the Cabinet can’t rely on the support of their own backbenchers for some of their more outlandish policies. (Rwanda and unilateral dismantling of the Irish border protocol for example)
Maybe, maybe not. Problem is those opposed to Johnson have a varying set of reasons. Hence throwing some even more outlandish policies might buy some more support.
There’s every possibility of it collapsing.
There is no possibility of a parliamentary vote of no confidence in the government. The only way there will be an early general election is if the Tory prime minister, whoever it might be, feels very confident that they will easily win it.
Well, Johnson will soon be asking his MPs to vote to unilaterally change his oven ready deal…
https://twitter.com/jp_biz/status/1535141995278176257?s=21
…an open opportunity for a rebellion. I don’t think many will vote against on first reading… but I also think it’ll never make it to statute. Should companies act as if it will or won’t become law? So much stability.