But don’t confuse the mood on this thread with public opinion.
No one is.
I know polls can be well off, but none of the recent ones look good for Johnson. And that polling isn’t reserved to people with STW accounts.
too true Ernie but given even the most right wing papers are gunning for him which means BBC and ITV news will also feature it prominently and that there is clearly more to come yet and the poll someone posted above.
Maybe I am being over hopeful but it really feels like the end of the Major government to me. the same sense of spiraling out of control and a hapless man no longer in charge of his party
Most Britons are taking the allegations very seriously: 69% of respondents say the Metropolitan Police should investigate the Christmas Party held in Downing Street last year. A majority of both 2019 Conservative voters (56%) and 2019 Labour voters (81%) agree that the party should be investigated. Conversely, a fifth (20%) of Britons do not believe the Metropolitan Police should investigate, a position held by 33% of Conservative voters.
Further, 63% believe the Prime Minister should resign if it is confirmed that the Christmas Party took place at a time when the Government had issued coronavirus restrictions which forbade such gatherings. In addition to 81% of Labour voters, a plurality (46%) of Conservative voters, too, think that Boris Johnson should resign in this situation.
Most of the constituencies in the south east would vote for a dog turd in a flaming paper bag if it had a Tory rosette on it.
The rest of the country appears to be full of plenty of people still (unbelievably IMHO) buying his panto act.
Politics is now what some people have been saying it is for a while now showbiz for ugly people
Time will tell TJ. I remain unsure of the long term fallout from these allegations. I remember people getting very excited on this thread at the time of wallpapergate, the long term damage was not significant.
Obviously people want to believe that this time it's different, I'm not so sure that it's that different.
Personally I'm not too bothered whether there were Christmas parties at Downing Street last year or not. I suspected that even if I'm in a minority it's not a tiny minority.
Edit : Btw I have no doubt that some people will say that stuff like Christmas parties in Downing Street bothers them when asked by pollsters because they think that is the correct answer. But really really bother them to the point of changing the way they will vote? Less likely imo.
binners
Full Member
Most of the constituencies in the south east would vote for a dog turd in a flaming paper bag if it had a Tory rosette on it.
Yep, I'm in one such place which saddens me. Food banks, homelessness and all the problems other areas have but it's a Tory stronghold. I despair.
Unfortunately a good percentage of the popululous here are in the "they are all as bad as one another" camp which I think hits Labours vote more.
Possibly.
But only if you believe that Johnson didn’t know that Brownlow was going to donate the funds for renovation.
As I said before what you or I believe is irrelevant, Geidt looked into it and was satisified. Absent anything to contradict his report, it will fizzle out. The Press and the Labour got excited because they thought the EC contradicts the Geidt report, it doesn't.
Er… “wallpapergate” has come back only today to feed into the negative news for Johnson.
These things have a tendency to pile up… next time there is a “one rule for us, another for them” story, or implausible stories follow bare face lies when they get found out, this stuff about xmas parties will come back into conversations again… just like people are talking about eye tests and Barnard Castle this week (in the ‘real’ world, not in the media or on this forum).
It does clearly Mefty
He lied to Geidt about the whatsapp messages. the EC found this lie. Thats a contradiction on a basic level and shows JOhnson once again lied
Based on the mood on STW the Tories would not win one single seat next general election.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a wipeout in Scotland. 🙂 Unless of course we have another tory / labour anti SNP pact
Geidt looked into it and was satisified.
Lord Geidt not so satisfied it seems
https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1469065079853404165?t=UUvuOEcOv6XgOgpKjLOJVQ&s=19
Lord Geidt not so satisfied it seems
Clearly fake news. Mefty has announced the facts and just as is the case with Johnson that should be sufficient. Lets not get into boring details which might contradict them.
Boris Johnson's press chief spoke at No 10 party last year
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59601447
Sword at the ready I'm guessing.
Obviously people want to believe that this time it’s different, I’m not so sure that it’s that different.
Neither am I, the greater damage is likely to be to his standing with his MPs but again not convinced it will be terminal.
Personally I’m not too bothered whether there were Christmas parties at Downing Street last year or not. I suspected that even if I’m in a minority it’s not a tiny minority.
I am not sure many would, which is why it would be better to have come clean, but hindsight is wonderful and as shown in the video it is not an easy message to come up with. The DofE's approach did seem pretty sensible.
Cameron’s wife to bail out her company
It was an investment round.
If Geidt quits Johnson will have to n watch his back
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1469066373934559235?t=InIJkKUmW5AFhoZHD2GZzg&s=19
Also Johnson is supposed to have said he paid back £100 000 used for refurbishments. given he has complained of poverty where did that money come from? This is another bit awaiting discovery.
Er… “wallpapergate” has come back only today to feed into the negative news for Johnson.
I'm not sure that anyone is suggesting that this hasn't been a bad week for Johnson. The question is how bad and how lasting? According to this thread calamitous and possibly marking the end of his premiership.
And in the real world? No one will know for a few weeks but certainly a bad week although the long-term consequences are very far from certain.
Remember Tony Blair still managed to win a general election after no weapons of mass destruction were found and being responsible for the greatest foreign policy blunder and ill thought out planning of modern time. I'm not sure how Christmas parties in Downing Street stack up against that.
Clearly fake news. Mefty has announced the facts and just as is the case with Johnson that should be sufficient. Lets not get into boring details which might contradict them.
No, that would change things significantly, interesting to see what happens.
Still claiming Geidt and EC said the same Mefty?
Brownlow made two more payments directly to the supplier, bringing the total sum to £112,549. The following month, Johnson paid back the cash to the supplier, which then returned the funds it had received from Brownlow and the Cabinet Office.
How Johnson footed the bill remains unknown. The commission said: “Any payments between the prime minister and the supplier are outside the scope of our investigation.”
Grauniad but this is a real issue - where did that money come from?
which is why it would be better to have come clean, but hindsight is wonderful
You don’t need hindsight to avoid defaulting to lies and a “because I say it’s true” attitude. Johnson has shot himself here, because of who is, and shown complete failure of judgement, and that is why this is so damaging for him, even as regards his standing in his own party. “There was no party”… a repeated lie… when he could so easily have said from the start, “we’ll look into that”… and then passed on some apologies from his team after some half hearted internal questions to “uncover” what he no doubt already knew… that would all have been plausible… assuming he thought and had advice that he could take that approach within ending up on the wrong side of the law…
Its always the ;lies and cover up that gets politicians
Again, ITV/ Peston well and truly putting the boot in.
Parties, wallpaper, a lying PM.
I’m still not convinced the Tories won’t hang on to North Shropshire, which will save his skin
If its a dramatically reduced majority though I think some Tories will get very uncomfortable and the knives may still be out.
With another (normal) person I'd say a bit of paternity leave and they might come back saying they've done their job to get Brexit over the line and its time for someone else to take the country forwards whilst I retire to look after my family. But not this idiot.
Ironically as the proponents of snappy slogans the 'one rule for them, another rule for us' type slogan seems to be catching on in the public mind.
Apparently he first started to call himself Boris when he was at Eton, that was when he developed this bumbling confused and cuddly persona which we all know and love.
Incidentally I find it astonishing how people seem so confused with regards to Johnson and his personality. A couple pages back several posters were claiming that Johnson couldn’t care less what people think. In contrast I don’t know of any UK politician that cares more about what people think than Johnson.
Johnson is a showman and an attention-seeker. I have never heard of attention-seeker who did not want to be loved, or a showman that didn’t want to be liked by his target audience.
Johnson appears to share several characteristics with Donald Trump. Apart from the gorgeous blonde hair, and the endless compulsion to lie, they are both narcissists who have an insatiable need to be liked.
It's a fair point, to some extent the act even draws in his detractors, ultimately yes "bumbling Boris" is an endearing character played to distract/deflect from some far more glaring realities. But it was always a limited life game. I think finally a better appreciation of his true nature is sinking in for those slower on the uptake...
His ability to operate is reliant on the majority buying his schtick and letting him deflect accurate criticism with bluster and bullshit. That's dropped away now and he's knackered as a result.
We'll see how it shakes out but I'd be surprised if he's still PM come summer.
he will not resign. It will have to be a defenestration
(according to FT) Geidt wants to reopen investigation in light of these whatsapps that Johnson seems to have witheld/ lied about
But only Johnson can reopen it
That leaves Geidt with not much choice, his own reputation already trashed enough by this as it is.
His reputation was dust as soon he stepped into replace Allan.
Even yougov at it now
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1469079943070068746?t=gdbyUmJuuzF9muP8litNTA&s=19
Remember Tony Blair still managed to win a general election after no weapons of mass destruction were found and being responsible for the greatest foreign policy blunder and ill thought out planning of modern time. I’m not sure how Christmas parties in Downing Street stack up against that.
I think the point there is that its not necessarily the party that wins but the opposition that loses! Michael Howard and Alex Salmond probably won that for Tony Blair more than he did by being too unpalatable to vote for!
Neither am I, the greater damage is likely to be to his standing with his MPs but again not convinced it will be terminal.
Well actually right now that's all that matters - Boris won't quit, so it takes either a vote of no confidence or a leadership contest from within the party to oust him.
But just like in a General Election the alternatives might be what stops them. You need a credible alternative - not just with MPs but the electorate eventually and that's hard. Rishi Sunak could be an obvious choice - but would he want to live in a house Carrie decorated - its not like he can get a tory donor to redo it for him now!
its not like he can get a tory donor to redo it for him now!
He doesn't need one, he redecorated the flat in No 10 at his own expense.
^^ I think you are flogging a dead course there, in any meaningful way anyway.
Boris is basically on life support at the moment and Sunak has the plug in his hand. Truss doesn’t have anything to back her up except a bit of party support due to her being Boris lite and they being idiots. Sunak has the support of big business, his own money and a raft of well connected individuals plus his own intelligence. The key is whether he wants it enough and if so, when.
I think you are flogging a dead course there, in any meaningful way anyway.
I was referring to Sunak, he lives above no 10, Johnson lives above no 11, when the story about the refurbishment first broke he informed the press about his funding of his own refurbishments - an early indication of maneuvers.
The only story now is the exit plan.
johnson is a busted flush; his only plan is to escape with some remaining shred of credibility.
No 11 was changed into a family home for the PM when Blair was in there. Sunak doesn’t need money from anyone to do anything, he and his wife are rich behind Johnson’s dreams. After all this mess, that may well appeal to party members if his name is given to them in a leadership contest. Which is depressing in many ways… Johnson’s unwillingness to live within his means (and the means that we as a tax payer provide him with) could end up making politics even more of a rich person’s game. £30k for decorating a flat (not repurposing or refitting one) that is already in great condition should have been plenty.
I note that Gove, Shapps and Raab are all conveniently isolating, away from public appearances for a few days...
^^ Anyone want to place a bet that at least one of them was at the/ a party...currently bricking it at its only a matter of time until the news breaks?
Also knowing that the longer they stay quiet the worse it will be when they finally admit the inevitable.
I'm still waiting for the pics/vid of the actual party taking place. Someone used a camera smart phone, they just did.
That video/pic could be worth a LOT of money right now. The papers will bite a hand off for it...if they haven't already got it.
Alexander de Pfeffel taking some paternity leave. I wonder if he'll be taking the opportunity to find that time with family is important and so for now will step down from being pm
just a way of avoiding the next PMQs He will not resign - too big an affront to his self image
I didn't mean voluntarily take more time to be with family. He's to self absorbed for that.
Perhaps a locked room a loaded revolver and a glass of good whisky? Too cowardly.
It would be so typically British if the PM resigns over lying about wallpaper rather than lying to the Queen about proroguing Parliament.
A future of bankruptcy and alcoholism awaits.
