That’s your memory of the legacy of the coalition? Really?
Why do you have a predisposition to dream stuff up Kelvin?
I said, quote, "Why is it that LibDems always seem to get away with behaving like Tories but Tories never do?"
No mention anywhere about "legacy". I am actually talking about the here and now. The Tories get regularly castigated on here for the the way they behaved in 2020-15 but the LibDems never seem to.
According to binners the LibDems behaved as they did because "they were so utterly naive, useless and easily played that they were brushed aside by Dave and co and totally failed to rein in any of their excesses. Just hapless stooges"
Which I think is a bit unfair on them. Vince Cable, a highly important contributor to the coalition's economic policies is clearly no fool, among his very many appointments he has been a senior civil servant for the Kenyan government, first sec to the UK Foreign Office, worked for the CBI, special adviser to the UK trade sec, adviser to the Commonwealth, and chief economist to Shell.
Danny Alexander the austerity man doesn't have quite have such an impressive CV but he is now vice president to a Beijing based bank.
These are not people who can be easily described as "utterly naive and useless". And it's difficult to see them as intellectually inferior to Cameron.
They knew exactly what they were doing.
Edit : Just to be clear.... binners comment "totally failed to rein in any of their excesses" gives the impression that the LibDems weren't really enthusiastic supporters of austerity, they were very much so. Vince Cable and Danny Alexander were both extremely supportive of the policy of austerity, they in fact championed it.
Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing
Unless it's the military or something they're happy to push.
but the LibDems never seem to
Stop “dreaming stuff up”.
What does happen in the “here and now” is that policies enacted by the government since the LibDems became just a tiny force in the UK parliament are often blamed on the party actually in government. Well, apart from when you swing in to defend Blobby Blobby Johnson that is… and then suddenly nothing happening under his watch is his fault. It’s the fault of the LibDems, or the wrong kind of Labour, or something.
Well, apart from when you swing in to defend Blobby Blobby Johnson
Seriously Kelvin how old are you?
It is hard to imagine more puerile school yard language.
You have obviously got the hump because I have criticized the LibDems, but ffs try to maintain a minimum decorum.
Newsnight is getting a bit feisty.
It’s just been pointed out the bleeding obvious: ‘Levelling Up’ is presently nothing more than a 2-word slogan
They’re good at those
As the Labour MP pointed out, it’s a phrase used to mean ‘whatever you want it to mean’
As on so many occasions before it’s a case of the Vote Leave mob being extremely good at campaigning and absolutely terrible at everything after that
‘Levelling up’ is just vacuous PR drivel. It’s meaningless. An empty vessel. It’s lighter than air because there is zero substance to any of it. It’s a slogan and nothing more.
It's worse than that, isn't it essentially using the massive amounts of money they've taken away from local council budgets to offer bribes to the areas that are strategically useful to them? Then trying to dress that up as a positive thing.
The level of debate here is fantastic, so thanks for that, no-one will engage with me on politics on FB.
Doesn't it make you so angry but yet sad that you can't do anything about it?!
It’s actually worse than that. It’s essentially saying that if you vote in a Tory MP then we’ll give you back some of the money that we’ve slashed from your local councils budgets
However, if you don’t vote in a Tory MP then we carry on cutting.
These ****s are just utterly shameless
It’s the very definition of pork barrel politics
but the LibDems never seem to.
I do and get called out for doing so
But IME unlike what Del claimed they do not sit on their arses bemoaning the fact – they get on with life and find workarounds
I claimed no such thing. My point was not at all that people are sitting in their arses bemoaning the fact. It's that people don't have choice. Not everyone has a support network around them or are even in a relationship that allows them to work opposite shifts with anyone. No support from the state means they're trapped and have no career progression and further stall pension contributions. Also means the kids don't benefit from early learning which is supremely valuable. Parents get no respite either. Society needs children and a healthy progressing society needs healthy educated children to become productive. I have no idea why this is so hard to understand.
Re: leveling up, I agree with the GMB gen sec when he says "promises of ‘jam tomorrow’ don’t hold much hope when it’s Boris Johnson who is making them."
I wouldn't trust Johnson further than I throw him, he is an accomplished liar for whom lying is deeply embedded in his personality.
However. Having heard some what he had to say today I am not quite as sceptical as I might have been.
I don't now think that the whole levelling up thing is simply an exercise to keep Tory former Labour seats sweet. He in fact makes the point that it's not merely because it is the "morally right" thing to do.
A clear recognition of the contradictions of capitalism appears to be the primary motivation. Millions of people with poor purchasing power are not a good source of profit. Millions of inactive people sitting at home producing nothing are not a good source of profit. Ultimately the Tories primary concern is profit.
Johnson makes those points in his speech today, he talks about "squandering vast reserves of human capital". And "greater regional prosperity means more customers and business for our national metropolises".
Although he remains light on detail I believe Tory/capitalist self-interest might well deliver unexpected benefits.
Johnson really isn't a politician in the true sense of the word, he is just an attention-seeking showman who uses politics as his vehicle. The advantage of that is that he is not driven by conviction and will embrace anything if he feels it will serve his interests and that of his class. I think he feels a logical attraction to Keynesian economics for obvious reasons, it provides a more stable model.
It is hard to imagine more puerile school yard language.
Blobby blobby blobby.
isn’t it essentially using the massive amounts of money they’ve taken away from local council budgets to offer bribes to the areas
Yup. As I said on a previous page, this doesn’t cost them a thing. Just keep forcing councils to cut services by cutting their budgets, and then use the money to fund the planning of headline projects for MPs to champion at the next election. The projects never have to come to fruition, and the cuts are someone else’s problem.
Having heard some what he had to say today I am not quite as sceptical as I might have been.
Hold my aching sides.
Johnson really isn’t a politician in the true sense of the word, he is just an attention-seeking showman…
Blobby!
Levelling up’ is just vacuous PR drivel. It’s meaningless. An empty vessel. It’s lighter than air because there is zero substance to any of it. It’s a slogan and nothing more.
...which has served it purpose.
Doesn't matter how vaccuous their slogans are, they are successful at it.
Can you remember a Labour one post Corbyn? Neither can I
For the many, not the few.
People may fall for levelling up but in 10 years time when their lives are no better, or even worse, they will turn. It will take that long though unfortunately.
When they “turn”, I fear it will be to back a new Conservative PM promising a whole new load of nonsense and lies. People voted for Johnson’s lot off the back of not being happy with the results delivered by previous Conservative PMs after all.
However. Having heard some what he had to say today I am not quite as sceptical as I might have been.
As with so many things, don't listen to what they say, look at what they do. Has this government actually DONE anything to 'level up' yet? Announced anything concrete? Anything more than slogans and soundbites?
Even if Johnson had any intention of 'levelling up' - and I don't believe for a single second that he does - theres no way on earth he'll get the support of the Tory party in doing so. They have zero interest in it in the first place, and they've made it abundantly clear that they will stand for no change to privilege enjoyed by certain areas of the country when it comes to spending. Ask Robert Jenrick where the last big load of 'Towns Fund' money went?
With them busy gerrymandering political boundries to further advantage themselves the status quo will become even further engrained. A two tier country with entirely different funding formulas and priorities.
Economic policy will continue to be set to exclusively benefit the South East, with the rest of the country little more than an afterthought. Other areas will be thrown the odd crumb from the table.
And as for regional devolution? The only thing that the Tories ever devolved way blame*.
If you think thats about to change then you're hopelessly naive. And remember that any increase in spending will first have to cover the shortfall that Brexit has delivered in cutting infrastructure spending in more deprived areas that came directly from the EU.
Anyone seriously think that Johnsons supposed new largesse will even begin to cover that?
* It's worked too. Voters in the former 'red wall' seats blame their former labour MPs and councillors for austerity and the huge cuts in funding, not the Tory's at Westminster. Go figure....
Brazen mother ****er…
“ A former Bullingdon Club member and university friend of Boris Johnson has been appointed to Whitehall’s independent sleaze watchdog”
And yeah, he’s in that photo. You know the black and white one, that makes you wish for time travel.
If you think thats about to change then you’re hopelessly naive.
Well I said that I remain sceptical but just not quite as sceptical having heard him publicly identifying real problems and their negative affect on both the economy and Tory interests.
If that's naivety then it's a naivety which is shared with the FT :
https://www.ft.com/content/ad5061b8-6a16-42de-b5a9-824cf15b84b6
"A kind interpretation of this volte-face would say Covid-19 has brought all but the most fanatical free marketeers to their senses. It has exposed the destructive impact on the public realm of the decade of austerity after the global financial crash. To the extent that the economy emerges in reasonable shape from the pandemic it will be because the Treasury abandoned its fiscal fundamentalism."
Yes he was thin on detail yesterday but he was supposedly setting out the skeleton and the flesh will come in the autumn. I agree with the GMB gen sec that jam tomorrow from Johnson rings hollow. Although much investment has been already laid out in 'building back better', I guess the detail will be in how the regions will benefit, which in turn will of course benefit both the economy and the Tories.
And yes I fully agree that Johnson has a massive battle on his hands dealing with a Tory Party welded to Thatcherism for over 40 years, as indeed he will have with southern Tory voters who risk defecting the LibDems, a party still committed to Thatcherism. From the FT article :
"Affluent conservatism has not given up its preference for small government and lower taxes. Tory voters in the south will not be inclined to open their wallets to pay for regeneration of the north. The extraordinary rise in public borrowing during Covid-19 at some point will demand a reckoning."
Time will tell. Politics is always full of surprises, who could have predicted that the LibDems would go into coalition with the Tories in Westminster?
C'mon do you really think that Johnson gives 2 hoots about leveling up?
Winning votes, he's down with that.
Hes been promising to flesh out the detail of social care reforms he first announced in 2019, the only changes we've seen are 1000s of deaths in social care
And his infrastructure promises are classic Johnson legacy projects, all about him.
No mention of ending the benefit cap or uc uplift removal, or sure start, because to end the cycle of poverty you need to stop people growing up in poverty
If that’s naivety then it’s a naivety which is shared with the FT
I know that surely everyone sane would like to see a shift away from the failed policies of austerity and Thatcherism and onto actual investment.
But the people in the present cabinet aren't sane. They're hard right ultra-free-marketeers. They're Ayn Rands adherents. Disciples of Milton Friedman Chicago School economics. They believe in tax cuts, deregulation and privatisation. The polar opposite of what Johnson is advocating.
I don't know about getting funding past home counties backbenchers, his biggest opposition will be from number 11. Rishi is itching to put a stop to the essential Covid-related government subsidies. I don't see any appetite for opening the cash taps for anything deemed 'non-essential', and 'The North' is most certainly deemed that by this lot.
If Boris wants to do this then he'll have a huge fight on his hands with his own party. And Boris isn't a fighter. He'll take the path of least resistance every single time.
He won't follow through on any of this. And nobody knows that more than the present cabinet. Thats why they're happy to let him carry on waffling on about it, knowing full well that not a thing will come of it
The details are always coming some time in the future. See absolutely any policy announcement by Johnson ever. Hospitals, bridges, social care, Ireland, fish… whatever. And that’s before we get to implementing those details… you’ll grow very old waiting for any of that.
C’mon do you really think that Johnson gives 2 hoots about leveling up?
In the way that Mike Ashley cares whether his customers are unemployed or not, yes.
Skint customers are of no use to Sports Direct.
Johnson made the point yesterday about the regions providing customers for the metropolises.
If Johnson made a point, you can be damn sure he’s now in a room telling someone else the exact opposite.
That the regions can't provide customers for the metropolises?
Why would he ignore the glaringly obvious truth?
The “opposite” point will be that people need to pull themselves up into having disposable income… it’s not for the state to help them. He’ll be keeping people onside with that line away from gullible listeners to his barely coherent “speech”. Nation of lazy workers don’t forget… Britannia Unchained.
Btw Kelvin well done for moving on from calling him "Blobby Blobby Johnson".
Although to be fair it did bring back fond and nostalgic memories of being back in the school playground. So that was nice.
Mr Blobby is perfect for Johnson. He deliberately creates chaos to keep all eyes on him.
No no no......"Blobby Blobby Johnson" not Mr Blobby.
It's much easier to chant in the playground.
Blobby Blobby is Mr Blobby’s catchline. It’s two words as well (sort of). Perfect for Johnson. Or, come election… bring out the big phrase Blobby Blobby Blobby!
Next time he's making a speech try to be there and chant "Blobby Blobby Johnson"......he might burst into tears.
The details are always coming some time in the future. See absolutely any policy announcement by Johnson ever. Hospitals, bridges, social care, Ireland, fish… whatever. And that’s before we get to implementing those details… you’ll grow very old waiting for any of that.
Don't forget the tunnel projects.
I get confused, is it now a bridge or a tunnel to Northern Ireland?
is it now a bridge or a tunnel to Northern Ireland?
Why not have both like the Dartford crossing?
my personal fave is the one I don't remember the uk press reporting.
British Moroccan Undersea Tunnel
And the Forty Hospitals, if only work had started on them, something useful.
(Well apart magicing up Docs and Nurses to staff them.)
I mean who wouldn't believe that this will definitely happen?
it may as well have come from Mr blobby, he explained it so clearly
https://twitter.com/sarahoconnor_/status/1415706265255358469?s=19
Doesn't the tunnel now include some sort of terminus/theme park underneath the Isle of Man?
About as likely to happen as any of those hospitals, a Garden Bridge or and airport on Boris Island.
Has anyone totted up the total in trillions of all Boris's unfulfilled promises? I bet its even more than his child support payments
Phew. No more than 15 minutes from a football pitch. What more can anyone ask for?
I'm still waiting for the high-tech solution to NI border issues.
It's almost starting to seem like just having whimsical bluster and a 'positive mindset' isn't enough on it's own to sort out complex international issues.
Doesn’t the tunnel now include some sort of terminus/theme park underneath the Isle of Man?
Just having a single tunnel was going to be barely worth getting the diggers out for so the idea was to have one tunnel from Stranraer, one from near Lancaster and one from Liverpool all meeting under the Isle of Man and then a single tunnel running to NI from there.
Has anyone totted up the total in trillions of all Boris’s unfulfilled promises?
Its only Labour who are asked to provide prices for stuff. The overall trillions I couldnt really care about though its the millions Johnson hands over for "feasibility" studies.
I hope none of these bloody marxists expect to be taking the bloody knee on any of these new football pitches
It’s almost starting to seem like just having whimsical bluster and a ‘positive mindset’ isn’t enough on it’s own to sort out complex international issues.
You are definitely over thinking it. When May tried some form of harmonisation fudge in 2018, the blundering Foreign Secretary saw his chance, started talking up a bridge to Northern Ireland (all that was lacking was the political leadership apparently, whatever could he mean) and then soon after left the cabinet. Northern Ireland was, according to him, all easily sorted with positive thinking, and any paperwork resulting from Brexit could just be sent to him to be binned. Since then, it’s all been sorted, using his mighty mighty performative politics…
“A danger to the world”
