[Closed] Blooming stoodent thugs

Ah well he's in trouble

the kid probably mocked his silly hat

He clearly walked into his fist

Brilliant. Just what he deserved.

yeah.. when you say trouble.. you mean he won't be allowed to drive the car for a week and will have to buy everyone a doughnut..

didnt hit him hard enough

I've been wondering what Prince is doing there? (in the police hat just above the guy's arm)

I think it's a nice hat. But baby blue is so last season. He's just peeved he had to mix it with a yellow hi-vis, that's what's got him so riled. just smacked the nearest thing, poor copper. Where's Gok Wan?

scumbag student deserved all he got

nice one dickydutch

edit: thought better of it did you?

firestarter - Member

didnt hit him hard enough

Yea really, while i dont agree with the voilence in these demonstrations i think apathy is sooo much worse, all this does is show exactly the type of ****s you get on both sides.

Do u think he would be so brave with out the uniform on.

TBh - a punch is as good as anything to make someone back off & I really can't see anything wrong with it per se in that situation

I dare say he could have used a baton but space was a bit tight

DOnt know what happened to that comment. But I stand by it. If he was standing protesting in a civilised matter, confrontation would have been avoided.

[b]dick[/b][s]ydutch[/s]

Fixed that for you.

whats that based on then deadly? You would have something to say if they were smashing up your property I'm sure. Get a grip.

...the circle of life...

I read that the police had mustard thrown at them in Bristol. I'm assuming powdered mustard, which could cause irritation of the eyes and nose.

Brilliant. Just what he deserved.

didnt hit him hard enough

No, he should have smacked him hard enough to kill him, eh? 🙄

I've been wondering what Prince is doing there? (in the police hat just above the guy's arm)

I was wondering what Thierry Henry was doing in the Met....

they should just ban all the protesters identified from going to uni then they'd be nowt for them to protest about 😉

Funny how he resorts to "get back" once he notices the camera on him.

Nice sky blue hats though...

Ooh dear. Doesn't look too 'justifiable', that use of force, does it? Copper just lashes out angrily.

Personally, I don't think taxpayers' money should be wasted on policing such protests. I think Tory and LibDem party members should be used instead....

You lot are idiots aren't you?

Condemning the students for being violent one second then saying how great it is that the police are able to be violent without any real provocation (and, be honest, can any of you see any provocation in that video? No.).

whats that based on then deadly

Based on your dick-like comment (which was mysteriously edited) corresponding with serendipitous coincidence with your username.

[i]Do u think he would be so brave with out the uniform on.[/i]

Probably.
I think the Met run a recruitment campaign along the lines of -

Is casual violence one of your hobbies?
No sense of humour?
then join the TSG!

not that violence is justifiable but judging by that video the cops are being backed into something (wall / memorial?) and therefore possibly exerting force to stop them being penned in?

The police are trying to push the protesters into a confined area. That's what kicked off the scuffles.

Looks to me like the deliberate stirring tactics employed so often in the past; squeeze the demonstrators into a small area, until the retaliate,then you can claim they turned violent which necessitted the use of force. Serves to undermine the protest, make demonstrators look like violent thugs, and gives fuel to the fire of introducing more and more restrictive laws on public protest. The thing that concernes me most here, is the way that the police are being used as political pawns, which should not be the case. This happened under the Tories in the past; Miners' strike, Wapping protests, Criminal Justice Bill demonstrations, etc.

I've been to a number of demos where the police have deliberately antagonised an otherwise peaceful crowd, in order to stir things up. I've seen senior police officers order snatch squads to be sent in, to really get things going. I've seen huge thugs in police uniform batter unarmed people just exercising their democratic rights, and not being aggressive or violent in any way. TBH, the majority of law breaking has been done by Her Maj's Finest.

Before you judge, I suggest you go along to some demos, have a look for yourself, see what the police really get up to. It'll open your eyes...

What a git! manages to get a couple of people in the face by my reckoning.

I did see a bit on the channel 4 news lastnight where someone at the back with a scarf over his face was throwing stuff at the police, a fairly posh sounding student at the front immediatley turned around and said "stop that! you're ruining it for everyone!" I liked that they showed it rather than just the usual "protesters smash up london (again)"

And another one.

Donk, you're spot on. This has happened at every protest, at Millbank they were chanting 'Stop throwing ****' and booed the fire extinguisher being thrown. But as I read somewhere else gory means story, peaceful protest is boring news.

I liked that they showed it rather than just the usual "protesters smash up london (again)"

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, if 'agents provocateurs' aren't being employed by the police/government/right-wing press, to stir up trouble and discredit the demonstrators. In fact, I was once on a CJB demo, everything was happy and peaceful, people just singing and stuff, all of a sudden, a masked-up group turns up, starts lobbing stuff at police, who then steamed in. Within minutes, there was chaos. The masked thugs just disappeared...

Yeah elfin but you can get all conspiracy theory if you think along those lines, I think there's enough nutters who like a good ruck and hate the police (remember all the raoul moat facebook stuff) that the government/police/lizardmen don't have to start employing some.

Oh for sure, Donk. I've also seen some complete idiots who are just up for a fight, with anyone. I doubt these student protests are any different.

Thing is though, what people should realises, is that the vast majority of protesters are peaceful and law-abiding. Not the 'masses of violent thugs' some would have you believe.

There will always be idiots on both sides. I'm sure many coppers are cursing some of their colleagues' actions, as it then puts them in the 'firing' line too.

Having been in a few riots myself the people at the front on both sides are nutters who want a fight . the reasonable people on both sides are stood back shame faced at the behaviour of both the plods and the protestors.
Ihave been batoned charged from by coppers who were hitting through a 8 foot high fence wec ould not leave as the other side was full of mounted coppers and coppers in riot gear shouting move back.

Scum on both sides IMHO

that's not a punch, it really isn't.

I really don't have a problem with that 'reasonable use of force'. Copper had his back against the wall and heavily outnumbered - quite restrained I thought.

sorry, I got lost at the point where you said 'student' and 'agent provocateur' in the same post.......

If I google that will it be SFW?

Police have a [b]duty[/b] to maintain order, and a right to use force to do so!

If people protested, rather than acting like petulant children having a tantrum in the street, then they wouldn't get hit would they? Quite easy really, when the police ask you to move, move, its not that hard is it?

The reason police have to control crowds of student protesters is quite simple, its because, as was proved a couple of weeks ago, they cannot be trusted to protest peacefully!

So, they tried it your way, nicey nicey, touchy feely, and it didn't work, which means its back to the TSG and horses until you can learn to behave yourselves!

Has anyone considered the fact that the [b]only[/b] way for police to move a reluctant crowd in the UK is to move them on, and when people resist them to use force to do so - in other countries they'd use CS gas and Water cannon, however that tends to upset the lefties if we do it here...

that the vast majority of protesters are peaceful and law-abiding.

well, if you want to stay away from the trouble, move away from the police lines, where the idiots who want a ruck are found...

and, be honest, can any of you see any provocation in that video? No.

none of those videos show any significant build up really to know whether there was any provocation at all...

The problem is that they don't "move them on". The policy seems to be to herd them up and pen them in for hours on end - stop them dispersing and going home

deadlydarcy you really are a prat.
As I said (pretty clearly I think), I didn't edit it on purpose, hence why I said I stood by the comment. You obviously are so blinkered you failed to notice it. Regardless, the students lost all credibility the moment they started smashing up property a couple of weeks back in London.

Proportional force? Ha!

He goes in swinging then stops when he sees that camera, he knows he's doing wrong.

What about the third video where the guy just gets wiped out from no-where?

For those that missed it the other night - Channel 4 did a pretty good documentary on public order policing:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/coppers/4od#3142078

the students lost all credibility

EDIT: yes was intersting coppers show you could see the coppers getting increasingly annoyed as the day progressed then loosing it with a number of people who were subsequently not charged. Not a dig at coppers per se just a comment on human nature I doubt many of us would put with that for hours without reacting

Regardless, the students lost all credibility the moment they started smashing up property a couple of weeks back in London.

not really.. peaceful protest is a farce.. they may have lost all credibility with a certain sector of the public.. but it is an historic fact that violent protest achieves more in this country than peaceful demonstration..

Whilst I can't condone police violence, these are indeed exciting times. After decades of complete political apathy from Britain's youth and students, I am watching their radicalisation and politicisation before my very eyes.

I simply couldn't believe that the police had used kettling against [i]school children[/i] the other day. I know how much anger and frustration which to (in effect) be imprisoned for many hours despite having done absolutely nothing illegal, causes. I also know how it exposes the limitations on our democracy, and how it leaves the victim feeling powerless.

Britain's school children and students are experiencing a very steep learning curve. What they experiencing and learning now will to an extent, stay with them for the rest of their lives.

They will very quickly move beyond the narrow issue of student fees, as they start linking their own predicament with the wider struggle against Tory ideologically motivated spending cuts. And as they start to challenge one set of "truths", it will automatically lead them to challenge another set.

A significant proportion will join political parties and become politically active as a direct result of their initial involvement in the student fees protests. They will carry this on into adulthood.

Contrast this, with the decades of slick marketing in which Britain's youth meekly and unquestioningly bought the empty dream that they could all personally achieve fame and fortune.

Thank you Tory/LibDem government........you are sowing seeds. And you will reap what you sow. I really couldn't have asked for more.

From what i've seen police tactics are mostly based around the fact that the average copper is unfit, overweight and cant handle overly complex organisation. Hence the 'kettling' fad. I think protestors are getting wise to it though; realising that the police are not their to 'supervise' but to harass and/or stop protest. Just keep moving faster than pc plod.

+1 [b]ernie_lynch[/b]

Well said that man!

And for his next trick, ernie parts the Red Sea...

with a number of people who were subsequently not charged

You appear to be of the opinion that not charging someone is evidence that the arrest was not right or proper - if they're arrested to prevent a breach of the peace, which is an established ancient common law right of arrest, then its perfectly reasonable to release them when they are no longer a threat to the peace, ie. after the protest.

From what i've seen police tactics are mostly based around the fact that the average copper is unfit, overweight and cant handle overly complex organisation

Have a close look at the similarities between Police tactics and Roman infantry tactics - I presume they were also based around the average Centurion being unfit, overweight and unable to handle organisation? or maybe they're just tried, tested, proven techniques that work?

I've been to a number of demos where the police have deliberately antagonised an otherwise peaceful crowd, in order to stir things up. I've seen huge thugs in police uniform batter unarmed people just exercising their democratic rights, and not being aggressive or violent in any way. TBH, the majority of law breaking has been done by Her Maj's Finest.

Before you judge, I suggest you go along to some demos, have a look for yourself, see what the police really get up to. It'll open your eyes...

what he said. I got trampled by a police horse outside downing street in 1997.

I got trampled by a police horse outside downing street in 1997.

Just walking innocently down the street were you?

What's the big deal footbal fans have been treated like this for years just for following their team.

Have a close look at the similarities between Police tactics and Roman infantry tactics - I presume they were also based around the average Centurion being unfit, overweight and unable to handle organisation?

to a certain extent yes... The Roman infantry will have often been close to physical exhaustion after marching to the battlegrounds.. unlike the fat bent coppers who are getting driven round the corner in a van to escort a bunch of stroppy teenagers..

just for following their team.

my brother and his mate got beaten up by a copper once when they were about 14, they had been out on the cider and one of them was having a piss against a set of swings

2 coppers saw them and one just layed into my brothers mate, resulting in a several stitches and a split scrotum

thing is they were both police cadets at the time, and the copper had a history (we later learnt) of disciplinarys was looking set to be charged and fired, then what do you know statements went missing and errors were found in the doctors notes making them inadmissable and the other copper(who my brother actually new and had considered a decent chap) lied to protect his mate

my brother doesnt like police now

Yeah right!!

Robdob, are you suggesting that football fans have [b]not[/b] been coralled and controlled by 'riot police' and not allowed to go wherever they want because a [b]minority[/b] of them are troublemakers, just looking for a fight?

So, like it was said earlier, the many have to suffer because, as a group, they have proven that they cannot be trusted to act within the law...

Have a close look at the similarities between Police tactics and Roman infantry tactics

Bleedin Romans 😐

[b]ROMANI ITE DOMUM[/b]

Ernie - I kind of agree with your enthusiasm for the politicalisation of the young-uns (maybe not the level of radicalisation that you applaud obviously). But dont you feel just a little bit patronised by their naivity and blatant lack of understanding of any of the detail of the issues they profess to be revolting about?

A good rantathon is one thing, but where's the intellectual case for change? Its not clear from any of the interviewees on the TV. All thats apparent is a want, want, want attitude fueled by some tubthumping, dog-whistling, airy concepts, with no real comprehension of how to deliver...

They will very quickly move beyond the narrow issue of student fees, as they start linking their own predicament with the wider struggle against Tory ideologically motivated spending cuts

Yes, just like these Newcastle Uni Students, who clearly feel that the plight of their predicament is [b] comparable[/b] to the suffering of millions in Africa!

Just think about the level of arrogance, of self importance, of sheer entitlement that would allow you to think that not getting free tuition is in any way equivalent to the plight of starving millions!

But dont you feel just a little bit patronised

Not quite as patronised as what you've just written though.

I will of course, let ernie speak for himself. He's more than capable.

dd - so you think that any of the students have made a substantive case for a fundable alternative policy on anything?

Or do you think that theyre just out for a few beers, bit of an "I woz there" swagger, and some Dave Spart bonus points before back to their digs and a glass of Chablis?

EDIT: anyway, keep up the faux disgust for me, Ive got to log off for a bit...

Yes Zulu and Stoner, the kids are very naive. They [i]haven't[/i] been politicised yet, these are early days and they have much to learn. Right now, they are just very angry.

Most young people initially get involved in politics (I'm talking about left-wing politics, I know little about what motivates right-wingers) for purely emotional reasons. The pragmatic idealogical understanding comes later.

I distinctly remember when I was just a naive angry kid who wanted to take on the system. Luckily I received excellent schooling which sorted me out.

Ive got to log off for a bit...

Remember to wipe.

Remember to wipe.

😆

In my day when a Polis smacked you in the face,you stayed smacked.And you wouldn't tell your Mum,oh no,then you would another hiding for getting in trouble in the first place.Of course things were different then,you could go out and leave your front door open etc...
That guy just has a look of "I can't believe you just did that" then carries on shoving/protesting etc.It is good to see a generation is starting to get off their backsides.Pity a lot of them are playing radical on Mummy and Daddy's credit card.That muppet from Newcastle being a prime example.

ernie - They will very quickly move beyond the narrow issue of student fees, as they start linking their own predicament with the wider struggle against Tory ideologically motivated spending cuts. And as they start to challenge one set of "truths", it will automatically lead them to challenge another set.

Already happening mate:

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/philip-green-protest-alleged-tax-avoidance ]Tax Avoidance Protest[/url]

As for the people saying the students are naive, I think anyone who doesn't question why these cuts (in the wider sphere) [url= http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/11/30/dwp-admits-cuts-risk-increasing-homelessness/ ]that will make people homeless[/url] and [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/nov/20/michael-gove-schools-sport-funding ]drastically reduce sport in schools[/url] (I could go on) have to be made is the naive one.

Yes Zulu and Stoner, the kids are very naive. They haven't been politicised yet, these are early days and they have much to learn. Right now, they are just very angry.

Angry teenagers, students protesting, was it not ever thus? A few years ago it was nuclear weapons, more recently it was fur, then animal lib, then globalisation, then self interest

Most young people initially get involved in politics (I'm talking about left-wing politics, I know little about what motivates right-wingers) for purely emotional reasons. The pragmatic idealogical understanding comes later.

Seldom, most of the ones who spent the nineties protesting live export are now the ones buying Fearnley -Whittingstall books and worrying which nursery Tarquin is going to.

I distinctly remember when I was just a naive angry kid who wanted to take on the system. Luckily I received excellent schooling which sorted me out.

Some of us embraced the system, it was far more contrary and rebellious to be a huntin' fishin' shootin' t mountainbikin' animal researchin' type than than we could ever dream of being by wearing black and hanging round with the local Goths... 😆

I dont wipe. A swans neck passes beneath me when I need.

Just think about the level of arrogance, of self importance, of sheer entitlement that would allow you to think that not getting free tuition is in any way equivalent to the plight of starving millions!

not really in context is it. reminds me of getting told off when at primary school for not eating all my dinner as there are kids starving in africa - well send them it!

Since 1998 at least there have been marches agains tuition fees, this is teh FIRST to get any exposure, so yeah a bit of criminal damage goes a long way.

I support them, the only other option is moving to wales 3 years before the kids go to uni so you get it free.

Its about time the government had some proper sh1t for acting like a load of lying b*****ds, no one else stands up for anything? Remember the fuel protests when the price went over £1/litre, well that came to nothing did it and as such another one they win.

Keep causing chaos every week students, next try all the local govt offices, redecorate them!

Pretty much nail on the head there Ernie. Its healthy to see.

Being bought up in the North West under Thatcher: I was angry as * at the injustice I saw going on around me. Most of us were. I think thats why the tories then spent so long out of power. Because a generation grew up hating the *s!!! And with very good eason. Looks like we're about to start again with the same cycle

@ Zulu Eleven

Self interest? You realise most of the students protesting won't be affected by fees and funding changes?

If I was easily offended I think those Northumberland students might have offended me with a entirely inappropriate choice of music which is not only in bad taste but totally out of context.

Moronic ****ers who are full of a misplaced sense of self importance. 👿

ernie_lynch - Member
Whilst I can't condone police violence, these are indeed exciting times. After [b]decades of complete political apathy from Britain's youth and students[/b], I am watching their radicalisation and politicisation before my very eyes.

so anything less than mass protest and street violence is apathy, I'm sure all the very politically active students of the last decades with thank you for your recognition of their efforts

I simply couldn't believe that the police had used kettling against school children the other day.

why were children at the protest? do you know where your kids are?

I know how much anger and frustration which to [b](in effect) be imprisoned for many hours[/b] despite having done absolutely nothing illegal, causes.

just becuase you couldn't go to starbucks to discuss how you "fought the state" over your fairtrade java

I also know how it exposes the limitations on our democracy, and how it leaves the victim feeling powerless.

what's the problem? lots more people disagree with you and demonstrate this at the ballot box rather than running around city centres . As you IIRC declare yourself not to be a Labour party supporter how exactly do you get your representation in the current democratic structures used in this country?

Britain's school children and students are experiencing a very steep learning curve. What they experiencing and learning now will to an extent, stay with them for the rest of their lives.

I hope so, a quick analysis of the "fees" issues leads me to believe that maths teaching is at a historically low level and most can't ,won't or CBA to work out that they will pay less than in the current system

They will very quickly move beyond the narrow issue of student fees, as they start linking their own predicament with the wider struggle against Tory ideologically motivated spending cuts. And as they start to challenge one set of "truths", it will automatically lead them to challenge another set.

yes a lot of them will realise that getting a caution or worse for a public order offence will adversly affect their ability to get a job that requires any sort of CRB check

A significant proportion will join political parties and become politically active as a direct result of their initial involvement in the student fees protests. They will carry this on into adulthood.

brilliant, hopefully we will have another wave of far left stdents who grow up into centre right politicians

Contrast this, with the decades of slick marketing in which Britain's youth meekly and unquestioningly bought the empty dream that they could all personally achieve fame and fortune.

you can't blame Simon Cowell for everything 😉

Thank you Tory/LibDem government........[b]you are sowing seeds.[/b] And you will reap what you sow. I really couldn't have asked for more.

I think Labour sowed the seeds,

'Dear chief secretary, I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left,'

the current government is managing the consequences

Lifer - interesting how those students, apart from the link with tax avoidance, were also able to feel a link between cuts in education spending and cuts in police spending.

Which is a pretty important point imo. And one which shows that the Bullingdon Boys really haven't thought through the consequences of their mindless vandalism of the public sector. Thatcher at least had the common sense to give police officers [i]massive[/i] pay rises before embarking on her destruction of British manufacturing industries .... she knew damn well that she would have to rely on the police to do her bidding. And didn't they do well during the miners strike eh ?

Yeah, an excellent video and pretty inspiring imo. Although the most depressing aspect is that, because of the dire state of the British left and the fact that British trade unions are effectively buggered, all that youthful anger has no effective vehicle to be channelled via or to provide coordinated action. Still, they say that crises tend to throw up leaders, so let's hope that happens and the left stops pissing in the wilderness and the trade union movement gets off its knees.

and the left stops pissing in the wilderness

I thought they lived on chat forums 😉

say that crises tend to throw up leaders,

big_n_daft......point by point rebuttals are very messy.......I really can't be bothered reading all that.

Shall I just take it that you don't agree with me ?

But hey...........thanks for taking the time btw *thumbs up*

big_n_daft

I hope so, a quick analysis of the "fees" issues leads me to believe that maths teaching is at a historically low level and most can't ,won't or CBA to work out that they will pay less than in the current system

[url= http://exquisitelife.researchresearch.com/exquisite_life/2010/10/hepis-critique-makes-browne-look-shallow.html ]How about an in depth analysis?[/url]

11.Knowing what it knows about the cuts that are to come, the Committee suggests that £6,000 in fees will be the amount that will allow universities to maintain funding levels equivalent to today's (actually £6,000 would be less than today's level of funding according to the Committee, but in an alarming return to the language of the 1990s it speaks of “efficiency” reductions to justify a figure of £6,000. These “efficiencies” are likely in reality to mean worse student:staff ratios – England already has one of the worst in the OECD area – or fewer books in the library). Many universities may feel that they will be unable to charge fees even at that level, and many will charge less. They may find ways of maintaining quality while being more “efficient” but in that case similar “efficiencies” should be required of others. Most likely, their quality will suffer. They may be able to attract students because of their price. As likely is that they will enter a spiral of decline. We cannot know, nor does anybody else. No market research underpins the report, and so a substantial risk is being taken.

[url= http://www.hepi.ac.uk/455-1860/The-Independent-Review-of-Higher-Education-Funding--an-analysis.html ]Full review[/url]

[url= http://www.lrb.co.uk/v32/n21/stefan-collini/brownes-gamble ]And more[/url]

[b]Much of the initial response to the Browne Report seems to have missed the point. Its proposals have been discussed almost entirely in terms of ‘a rise in fees’.[/b] Analysis has largely concentrated on the amount graduates might pay and on which social groups may gain or lose by comparison with the present system. In other words, the discussion has focused narrowly on the potential financial implications for the individual student, and here it should be recognised that some of the details of Browne’s proposed system of graduate contributions to the cost of fees are, if his premises are granted, an improvement on the present patchwork arrangements.

But the report proposes a far, far more fundamental change to the way universities are financed than is suggested by this concentration on income thresholds and repayment rates. Essentially, Browne is contending that we should no longer think of higher education as the provision of a public good, articulated through educational judgment and largely financed by public funds (in recent years supplemented by a relatively small fee element). Instead, we should think of it as a lightly regulated market in which consumer demand, in the form of student choice, is sovereign in determining what is offered by service providers (i.e. universities). The single most radical recommendation in the report, by quite a long way, is the almost complete withdrawal of the present annual block grant that government makes to universities to underwrite their teaching, currently around £3.9 billion. This is more than simply a ‘cut’, even a draconian one: it signals a redefinition of higher education and the retreat of the state from financial responsibility for it.

My emphasis just for you Big_n_daft

ernie_lynch - surely you are Dave Spart ?
and I claim my £5 🙂

and anyway too many students these days - back in my day only 2% of the year group went to Huniversity and now I believe it's something like 97%....etc etc.....

The universities fund themselves. They don't need extra money. Like I said, my uni generates £7.50 for every £1 the government puts in. The rise in fees just isn't necessary and builds massive debts (with interest payable to the government...) and will stop kids from low income families (the people who wouldn't vote Tory...) going.

I'd agree with the sentiment that students haven't been as motivated as this for years- I think the last time I felt the need to protest was nearly 8 years ago for the Iraq war. I think that was the last time anyone I know went to a protest. The Labour government, on the whole, provided little to protest against. There were some questionable things but most of it was OK. I'd not say I was a labourite but they did good.

Now however sweeping changes that claim to be about "spending cuts" but are really unjustifiable Tory policy that wouldn't even go near parliament under normal circumstances. And all of a sudden people feel the need to protest because what is happening is wrong.

Andy- I've been working in a school recently and only 3 out of 25 students want to go. However, that's a specialist subject. In other classes that's much lower.

Education is not a commercial industry. It is a necessity for both the country and for young people.

Also, a lot of you have a very unpleasant stereotype of students. This image of a young person drinking posh coffee, loafing around and aiming to have a kid called "Tarquin" is straight up wrong. The majority are hard working, have chosen their subject because it will be useful (while some things like Art History may not seem useful, a society with culture is a good thing to live in- so long's it remains a minority subject) and want to make themselves more employable in a specialist field, or even just be smarter. This is NOT a bad thing.

Admittedly many are in there to kill a few years. Obviously this is the sort of thing that needs to stop- it's simple enough to just increase the grades needed to get in and sort this chaff from the wheat. Having to work harder to get into uni will stop this, NOT higher fees.

Obviously this is the sort of thing that needs to stop- it's simple enough to just increase the grades needed to get in and sort this chaff from the wheat. Having to work harder to get into uni will stop this, NOT higher fees

Won't this just increase the inequality ? Surely it's harder to obtain good grades at state schools than fee paying schools ?