[Closed] Bloody benefits cheats!

So what....

[url= http://www.monbiot.com/2011/12/12/unmasking-the-press/ ]Benefit fraud deprives the Exchequer of £1.1bn a year while tax avoidance and evasion deprive it of between £40bn and £120bn[/url]

I think what is being said here is that 75 000 innocent and potentially frail and vulnerable claimants have got 'orrible nasty twunts attempting to cause them distress..

As has been said time and time again on here - it may well be more useful to society in general to try and get to know someone you suspect of committing benefit fraud.. Rather than wasting everybodies time and money by sneaking round making dodgy phonecalls..

I wonder if they bought a duck house or a second home in london with their amoral benefits while also having a decent salary and gold plated pension....
the great and good take the piss for far more...

Last figures I heard was that there is currently 50 million in unclaimed benefits

Same as Crimestoppers though innit? Everyone knows that's just a service for rival drug dealers to grass each other up

I wonder how much we could cut the benefits bill by getting rents down and building affordable housing or having cheap housing availble to rent from oh I dont know the council or someone?

I wonder how much we could cut the benefits bill by getting rents down and building affordable housing or having cheap housing availble to rent from oh I dont know the council or someone?

yes - I agree...although remember that rent prices will fall if housing benefit is reduced.

will they really?
Housing benefit comes from the council not DWP beneifts

HMRC having a soft touch with big business is a much greater issue to the nation - Vodaphone, Arcadia etc etc. But according to callmedave, HMRC are doing the right thing and are in fact treating his mates in big business exactly the same as everyone else. Except they're not. The Daily Mail doesn't mention this too often either.

yes

will they really?
Housing benefit comes from the council not DWP beneifts

dont know what DWP means but ultimately I cant help but think the people making the most out of us are the people who rent out property.

dont know what DWP means but ultimately I cant help but think the people making the most out of us are the people who rent out property.

spot on.

landlords are the biggest benefits junkies

gwaelod - Member

spot on.

landlords are the biggest benefits junkies

Including our very own capitalist running dog, STW's answer to Sheriff Fatman, at six foot six and a hundred tonnes (helmet not included)...
Tandem Jeremy!

😈

The sin of property we do disdain,
No man has any right to buy or sell the earth for private gain,
By theft and muder, they took the land
Now everywhere the walls spring up at their command

[img] [/img]

If Saddam had hidden at Billy Bragg's instead of down that hole he'd be having nut roast for dinner on Sunday..

HMRC having a soft touch with big business is a much greater issue to the nation - Vodaphone, Arcadia etc etc. But according to callmedave, HMRC are doing the right thing and are in fact treating his mates in big business exactly the same as everyone else. Except they're not. The Daily Mail doesn't mention this too often either.

Yeah exactly, although I do gather the Mail has recently had a rant about corporate tax avoidance - which is quite ironic given their record (see video for details)

In the interests of balance:
[img] ?w=450[/img]

... and...

[img] ?cda6c1[/img]

Same as Crimestoppers though innit? Everyone knows that's just a service for rival drug dealers to grass each other up

Hmm, I din't know that, and I suspect that's only something an actual drug-dealer would know. 😐

Speaking of rivalries; Hora sez his crack is better quality than yours, and that yours is 'dirty' and contaminated with shite.

bravohotel8er - Member

at six foot six and a hundred tonnes

Seems mis-aimed, this is STW where there's loads of people with more aliases than Klaus Barbie 😆

[url= http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dwp ]DWP[/url]

If the UK tax book wasn't so ridiculously overcomplex, there would be a much better rate of return - the big corporations can hire lots of accountant lawyers that pay for themselves avoiding tax but HMRC are on the back foot because there are too may loopholes and not enough analysts to counter

My neighbour is on invalidity benifit, or whatever it is. He's out everyday swinging a log splitter or collecting timber from the local woods to bring back and saw up before splitting it with his axe, then he wanders down the road to the pub, day in and day out, he also has a gardening round in the summer and does some building work - he's been investigated twice (once when his Doctor found him doing his neighbours garden!) and been investigated twice this year but he's still busy claiming away!

My neighbour is on invalidity benifit, or whatever it is. He's out everyday swinging a log splitter or collecting timber from the local woods to bring back and saw up before splitting it with his axe, then he wanders down the road to the pub, day in and day out, he also has a gardening round in the summer and does some building work - he's been investigated twice (once when his Doctor found him doing his neighbours garden!) and been investigated twice this year but he's still busy claiming away!

My neighbour is on invalidity benifit, or whatever it is. He's out everyday swinging a log splitter or collecting timber from the local woods to bring back and saw up before splitting it with his axe, then he wanders down the road to the pub, day in and day out, he also has a gardening round in the summer and does some building work - he's been investigated twice (once when his Doctor found him doing his neighbours garden!) and been investigated twice this year but he's still busy claiming away!

I'm not saying that your neighbours not pulling a fast one but things are not always as black and white as they may seem. A friend is on benefits and on his good days he could do the above but you wouldn't want his problems and in no way could you hold down a job.

I get the point about the wealthy avoiding more tax than is overpaid in benefits but isnt that another subject ? Star another thread.
It does seem that housing benefit has supported the house price bubble. As someone whos works pretty hard to pay a mortgage of a few hundred a month it seems incredible we cant limit housing benefit to £500 a week.
Either those people are living in mansions or the landlords taking the ****.

Wouldnt capping the bens serve to devalue the property?

As someone whos works pretty hard to pay a mortgage of a few hundred a month it seems incredible we cant limit housing benefit to £500 a week.

I think it's now actually limited to £400 now, though this is for new claimants only.

Same answer to both problems, simplify and centralise both tax and benefits systems and you'll find more people get what's coming to them.

Both systems have been politcal footballs for years, used by both parties to garner votes from specific groups. The only losers in all this would be all the people employed in the tax system (tax lawyers, civil servents, advisory services).

Only way round it is to stop it all together

or simply limit the time that anyone can be on benefits
Obviously looking after the Old and the Handicapped persons.

Just can't believe we are paying benefits to those whom can't afford
to pay for there own children

grantway - Member

Just can't believe we are paying benefits to those whom can't afford
to pay for there own children

We're paying benefits for children whose parents can't afford to pay for them. Punish the kids?

The sin of property we do disdain,
No man has any right to buy or sell the earth for private gain,
By theft and muder, they took the land
Now everywhere the walls spring up at their command

says the man who lives in a milti-million pound cliff top mansion in Dorset, lol

Only way round it is to stop it all together

or simply limit the time that anyone can be on benefits
Obviously looking after the Old and the Handicapped persons.

Just can't believe we are paying benefits to those whom can't afford
to pay for there own children

So basically you think all benefits stopped. Or if any are paid, then a time limit should be applied. But paying benefits to those who can't afford to pay for their own children is out of the question, in fact, you 'can't believe it'.

In other words if someone loses their job, or becomes ill, whatever, and they've got kids, then it's just tough luck on the kids.

And that the "only way round" the problem of only 98.7% of benefit claims being genuine, is to stop them altogether/put a time limit.

Now I can't believe that you are actually that callous, so why don't you think before saying something ? 💡

tbh what would you do with no money and your kids wanting to eat....you have noticed the unemployment figures and the lack of commitment to full employment.....You are right though we need to let poor people and those who have fallen on hard times starve and take their kids with them....that will teach them
Perhaps we should just reinstate the Poor Houses to deal with them?

TBH you will pay for them one way or another..prison because they rob or via the NHS because they are dying of starvation or benefits ...take your pick which you prefer.

there are certainly people living off benefits who are not trying to find work...but then again thats no bad thing because there is not enough work to go round ..better to have "happy" doleys than unhappy ones.

Either that or campaign for full employment

remember Unemployment is a price worth paying and ave does not mind others paying it but really dont **** with his mates in the city.
We all get annoyed by people we feel are cheating the system stopping benefits wont improve this situation though it will just make it worse for us all.

OH yes Merry Christmas Northwind Peace and goodwill to all people eh

We're paying benefits for children whose parents can't afford to pay for them. Punish the kids?

They obviously can't afford to have kids so why should I/we pay for them then to
see them riot the streets?
This is where most of the social problems come from so why finance.

Now I can't believe that you are actually that callous, so why don't you think before saying something ?

Don't think I am callous, I was saying about the typical benefit cheat.

grantway - Member

They obviously can't afford to have kids so why should I/we pay for them then to see them riot the streets?

Oh, you must be trolling right... How many families are dependant on benefits? How many of those kids rioted?

Oh, you must be trolling right... How many families are dependant on benefits? How many of those kids rioted?

LOL nope Northwind you be in amongst all that was going on in London
and see the B*****ds waiting to descend on small business and tearing
the communities apart.

Me:

How many families are dependant on benefits? How many of those kids rioted?

I was saying about the typical benefit cheat

No you weren't. You said no one should get any benefit, or least only for a limited time. And that anyone with children shouldn't get anything at all for their children - which was a situation that you 'just couldn't believe' was happening.

And btw, according to the OP investigations into cases were there was reason for concern or suspicion, found that 98.7% of the benefit claims genuine, if you were to include all those were there were no reason for concern or suspicion, then presumably the percentage would be substantially higher.

It would seem that your "typical benefit cheat" is very thin on the ground. Either that or the Benefit Fraud Hotline really is crap.

No you weren't

True but i stay with what I said, tough really innit

True but i stay with what I said, tough really innit

Ah right I see, fair enough, in that case I was completely wrong when I said :

[i]"Now I can't believe that you are actually that callous"[/i]

Well you obviously are. So please accept my apology for misrepresenting you, you are clearly a complete **** and I was wrong to suggest otherwise.

It's good to have a clearer understanding of other people, innit ? 8)

for a bit of balance mate of mine got grassed for working cash in hand whilst claiming invalidity etc.. they had the builders van reg dates times and places etc when they came round and 'interviewed' him

''i was just watching for a bit of company cos i m bored'' says he.. ok then said very nice man and lady.. home free!! not really investigating just couldnt be bothered more like.. someone had taken a few days to gather the eveidence fone the hot line but the civil servants couldnt didnt wouldnt take it any further

How many Gas Engineers, Plumbers, Builders etc etc declare their full income or how many class their income as about 18k a year?

For instance the Gas Engineers I've spoken too work VERY long hours, its not seasonal work, oncall etc and prefer cash. Yes its bloody hardwork, unsociable hours but it makes you wonder. Temptations there isn't it.

saying this £1bn in claimant fraud is worth a 100times corporate fraud. As at least someones working. Philip Green doesn't steal my bike, sleep 6days a week or assault me in the street.

saying this £1bn in claimant fraud is worth a 100times corporate fraud. As at least someones working. Philip Green doesn't steal my bike, sleep 6days a week or assault me in the street.

Tax evasion/fraud is theft. I don't know why you think it isn't. And it is a vastly bigger problem than benefit fraud.

Bigger problem?

Or is it figures that the taxman is missing out on? We have tax on virtually every aspect of our lives. Why do you think taxes are a lesser evil than those who don't want to work or will have generations of social dependancy in their council provided households, continually breeding, living poor diets then becoming a liability to the NHS?

Walk round ex-mill towns and you see the children of the ****less wandering around. What would an extra £100bn in tax revenue achieve in reality? Itd probably mean more given away in foreign aid, more weaponary and money to construction companies to build yet more social housing to fuel the underclass growth.

I'm a cynic but I don't see increase taxes income to change the other end of the populace. That would take a leader of the country will balls.

I saw people yesterday who couldn't even afford food at the super market.

The problem is a lack of leadership, that understands forward thinking and has vision and also efficient effective management of resources.

If our circumstances suck, who led us to this and do we really want them in charge?

hora - Member

Philip Green doesn't sleep 6days a week

He only sleeps on sunday?

What proportion of benefits claimants do you think steal your bike and assault you in the street?

(Grantway decided not to answer what proportion of benefits claimants went rioting, even though he thinks it's a justification to stop benefits for everyone...)

hora - Member

Bigger problem?

Or is it figures that the taxman is missing out on?

Yes a bigger problem - a much bigger problem.

In fact, a problem [u]15 times bigger[/u] than benefit fraud, according to the government :

[url= http://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/tax-evasion-costs-treasury-15-times-more-than-benefit-fraud/a378274 ]Tax evasion costs Treasury 15 times more than benefit fraud[/url]

Of course you are going to pretend that benefit fraud involves more people and therefore somehow makes it worse. And you will of course also conveniently ignore the millions who every year jump at the opportunity to pay cash so to avoid paying VAT.

So don't let the truth stop you from spouting your ill-informed ranting, as I'm sure it won't.

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post so can't comment further on any other nonsense you might have mentioned.

So don't let the truth stop you from spouting your ill-informed ranting, as I'm sure it won't.

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post, so can't comment further on any other nonsense you might have mentioned.

😆

Hora, what is it you do for a living again?

no, philip green doesnt steal your bike cos he can steal the pensions of the public sector workers instead
the man isnt stupid - he thinks big.