MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
In a strange dilemma, advice sought.
I know someone who has scant regard for the lockdown and is planning to travel aboard to go on holiday whilst the country is in the middle of lockdown.
If I wanted to anonymously alert the authorities should I and, who should I contact? I'm not in the UK at the moment, so 0800 numbers don't work.
Or, am I being unreasonable?
What country are they travelling to and what are the current restrictions/quarantine arrangements for that country?
Leave people to make their own decisions and keep your nose out of other people’s business? Unlikely to effect you.
Unlikely to effect you
Too right!
But it could affect a lot of other people. Possibly in a bad way.
All foreign travel for leisure purposes is criminally forbidden for people in England this month. If you're 100% sure it's a holiday and not one of the exception reasons (visit dying family?) then call the police and report. Should be easy enough to find the local station number. Very small chance of the police doing anything.
Post some sausages?
Where could they possibly be going that’s not going to be crap? Can’t speak for anywhere else, but here the entire hostelry industry is shut for two weeks at least, can’t leave city limits etc.
Assuming they aren’t piloting the plane themselves to avoid authorities, and follow quarantine measures as required.... what’s the question again?
How they getting abroad?
I would assume that airports would be alert to this, and I assume ferries ha e to st least ask ?
keep your nose out of other people’s business? Unlikely to effect you.
Well it could very easily become your business when they bring COVID back, and snarl up your local hospital with people.
But some people are just selfish me me me I guess
All foreign travel for leisure purposes is criminally forbidden for people in England this month
The OP didn't mention England. If flying in and out of there is "criminally forbidden" then I'd have thought there would be proper checks at the airports.
How they getting abroad?
They can lie and say it’s for work or education.
Is going abroad on holiday banned? I'm not sure it is.
Breaking the quarantine rules when you return is a different matter. I'd happily bring back the death penalty for that. Mainly out of jealousy, to be fair.
They can lie and say it’s for work or education.
I have to show a letter from my employer before I'm allowed to board any flight out of the UK at the moment.
Report your concerns to the non-emergency phone number or a local force.
Well it could very easily become your business when they bring COVID back, and snarl up your local hospital with people.
But some people are just selfish me me me I guess
The whole Caerphilly County Borough local lockdown was traced back the 3 lads coming back from a boys holiday and heading straight to the local pubs on their return.
East Germany was very much like this back in the GDR era, with people informing on their friends and neighbours. Just saying...
JP
Is it the mother-in-law, nipping back to Transylvania?
Bit different then JP, see if you change your mind when you've lost a relative because some selfish prick can't follow the rules because they don't think they apply to them.
Slightly over the top JP?
No police can enforce laws without the consent and help of the public.
I have to show a letter from my employer before I’m allowed to board any flight out of the UK at the moment.
Infallible.
East Germany was very much like this back in the GDR era, with people informing on their friends and neighbours.
Yes let’s not report any crimes.
Lol @ JP
Too right!
But it could affect a lot of other people. Possibly in a bad way.
+1
Grammer Nazi's in full affect (3 x sic)
Where are you off to JP?
😉
East Germany was very much like this back in the GDR era, with people informing on their friends and neighbours. Just saying…
Godwins law - you lose ( well nearly)
Godwins law – you lose ( well nearly)
But at least you could go away on holliday on those punctual trains?
That joke is seriously bad. Seriously.
Ouch.
Or am I looking a level beyond what you intended?
That joke is seriously bad. Seriously.
Ouch.
Or am I looking a level beyond what you intended?
I think I see where you've gone. I don't think that was the intention.
Those who have what they need to get through another lockdown would do well to stop lecturing those who don't.
I don't think anyone is begrudging people getting what they need Jim, but if it includes six different families turning up on a Friday evening with kids in fancy dress. I think a call to the police is appropriate
LeeW, so you'd call the police because some kids decided to have a fancy dress party. Really? Is it because you weren't invited?
Can you hand on your heart say you have never broken a single lockdown restriction?
I wonder if you would have been the sort of neighbour who would have shopped Anne Frank to the Gestapo, you know because her being in hiding was against the law and all that?
🤣🤣🤣
But at least you could go away on holliday on those punctual trains?
What am I missing beyond a reference to Mussolini's flavour of fascism following the Godwin's Law accusation (see also jb's post, btw...).
Oooh! We’re going full Godwin’s now.
Well it could very easily become your business when they bring COVID back
A bit of perspective here.
It's not like we don't have "the virus" or that our government refused to close our borders when everyone* else did... or allowed a load of Madrid fans to fly in and go for a piss-up when Madrid was a global epicentre?
but if it includes six different families turning up on a Friday evening with kids in fancy dress. I think a call to the police is appropriate
so 6 kids who are forced to go to school and not allowed to wear masks in classrooms who then go home to parents, siblings and grandparents
Can't believe that after 8 months of this, we haven't covered this topic before!
RM.
What am I missing...
The “punctual trains” could be construed as a reference to the trains to Auschwitz etc., but was almost certainly a reference to German efficiency. I think.
Those who have what they need to get through another lockdown would do well to stop lecturing those who don’t.
People don't 'need' to go on holiday to get through lockdown. It's not like the OP is planning to grass him up for popping to the shops to get groceries is it??
Simple fact is some folks are just too selfish to make any little sacrifice to their lives to help bring an end to this thing.
As for comparisons to East Germany..get a grip.
As for comparisons to East Germany..get a grip.
Hey, have a bit more empathy, the poster who said that might have needed to do it.
Rather than just being a fanny.
Probably the same sort of person that gave my 78 year old neighbour a load of grief in the supermarket yesterday for being there.
"The rules state you should be at home"
And before any gives it big licks that I should be doing his shopping for him, stop and think.
I really don't understand the 'snitches get stitches' attitude from some in these sorts of situations. It's not about grassing someone up because they're breaking the law (Anne Frank, seriously?!), it's about minimising the risk of spreading a potentially deadly disease in the middle of a global pandemic.
The reason we're in the middle of a second lockdown is precisely because a subsection of the population thought they were above the rules. The longer we have this 'I'm alright Jack' attitude, the longer this will go on for, and I for one want my life back.
If ever Wheaton's Law applied, it's right now.
I have to show a letter from my employer before I’m allowed to board any flight out of the UK at the moment.
I'm self employed. happy days. Unrestricted travel.
Probably the same sort of person that gave my 78 year old neighbour a load of grief in the supermarket yesterday for being there.
“The rules state you should be at home”
Cool story.. But given that's not a banned activity, and going on holiday is, the two situations aren't really comparable are they?
Cougar is spot on..there are clearly lots of selfish ****s about, a few on this thread..
All this isn't helped with our dependency on social media. Before social.media there were still plenty people complaining about things. Social media has given them all a soapbox and a much wider audience to connect/resonate with, so we now have far more people given volume to ideas that go against what we are being asked to do.
This isn't a new problem, but it is much bigger/widespread than it would have been decades ago.
We do all need to knuckle down and do our part to reduce this...those ignoring all this and doing their own thing really aren't helping, but not really sure how it is fixed if everyone doesn't following the rules.
The reason we’re in the middle of a second lockdown is precisely because a subsection of the population thought they were above the rules.
With respect, I'm not really sure it is.
It seems more like it's because the rules were confused and inadequate, and the massively expensive test and trace system accompanying them basically doesn't work effectively.
The Tories want us to blame it on other people not complying of course.
Cougar
The reason we’re in the middle of a second lockdown is precisely because a subsection of the population thought they were above the rules.
Is it?
One of the reasons is because 'people' are following the rules ... even when "common sense" say's otherwise.
Common sense is not a valid justification for doing whatever you want. Especially not in this case because epidemiology is not part of common sense, it's a specific sciebtific discipline.
I'm with Cougar on this. "Grassing" up Ann Frank and Stasi type comparisons are nonsense. A public health emergency is nothing like a Nazi/Police state, to compare them is very disrespectful to those who gave endured them. There's a vocal minority in society and on here that seem to get a kick out of any opportunity to show how above the law they are. Most of us grew out of that around 21 years old.
The mixed messages and lack of a coherent long term plan have been a big factor in the public giving up on obeying restrictions, and the government needs to own that. But using it as an excuse for our own selfish behaviour let's the government of the hook and is totally counter productive.
I'm with Cougar too. What the hell is wrong with people that they can't keep themselves to themselves for a few weeks to help break the chain of infection? You can still go to buy food, get outside to stretch your legs. Where's the problem?
What the hell is wrong with people that they can’t keep themselves to themselves for a few weeks to help break the chain of infection? You can still go to buy food, get outside to stretch your legs. Where’s the problem?
That's a pretty fair summary of the problem. You don't know other people's circumstances. You don't know how difficult lockdown is for them. Everyone is having a different lockdown experience. Maybe be a little more understanding and a little less judgemental. And anyone quoting Wheaton's Law should maybe check they aren't breaking it.
The reason we’re in the middle of a second lockdown is precisely because a subsection of the population thought they were above the rules. The longer we have this ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude, the longer this will go on for, and I for one want my life back.
Nah.
The reason we’re in this mess is 2 fold.
1. We had a government who reacted slowly, indecisively and with vague rules. This virus can’t be controlled by half measures which is exactly what we’ve tried to do.
2. It’s a virus that’s bloody hard to control and like many similar viruses is worse in the cooler months.
The government want the narrative to be that its the peoples fault and not their policies. Don’t let them win that battle.
Common sense is not a valid justification for doing whatever you want. Especially not in this case because epidemiology is not part of common sense, it’s a specific sciebtific discipline.
So if a child lives with a vulnerable family member can you give me the scientific reasons that child cannot wear a mask in class?
There’s a lockdown on? Seems like business as usual round here...
Really though OP? You can’t get snippy when other people aren’t following ‘the rules’ (whatever they are this week). You always have the option to not follow them yourself. I just use common sense, what other people are doing is none of my business.
Earlier I wrote:
The reason we’re in the middle of a second lockdown is precisely because a subsection of the population thought they were above the rules.
A few people have challenged this and thinking about it they're right to do so. I would have.
This isn't why we're in a second lockdown. Confusing messages often self-contradictory from the government; Dominic "Short" Cummings setting an example by going for a drive because he claims he thought his eyesight was failing (why didn't the DVLA take his licence away for that?); Track & Trace being an omnishambles because they saw an opportunity to slip their mates at Faculty a huge bung to do a bit of data harvesting rather than using the imminently globally available official APIs; and so on and so forth. Complicated questions have complicated answers, who knew.
This isn't why we're in a second lockdown. But IMHO it's sure as hell a significant contributory factor.
People have to knuckle down and stick to the restrictions precisely because the government have completely ****ed it up. It's not an either or thing, the two are connected.
Using the government's failures to justify bending and breaking the rules is totally counterproductive. The longer people think they have no role to play in breaking the chain of infection, the longer it will drag on for, the more damage it will do to the economy and mental health, so the more people will kick against it and the longer it will have to continue.
You always have the option to not follow them yourself. I just use common sense
Common sense is not a valid justification for doing whatever you want.
If people could be trusted to use 'common' sense then we wouldn't need a lot of the laws and rules we have. Speed limits, they can go for a start, people can just use their common sense.
But people cannot be trusted. People are, demonstrably, morons. They rounded up 50-odd people holding a rave in Manchester a couple of weeks back. Which is why we have numbers on poles, and why abject shit-for-brains people shouldn't be allowed to jet off to the Costa Del Clownshoe.
You don’t know other people’s circumstances. You don’t know how difficult lockdown is for them.
No I don't, but are you telling me that because of that a sufficient number of people cannot follow sensible guidelines to help slow the spread of Covid without the government having to intervene?
No I don’t, but are you telling me that because of that a sufficient number of people cannot follow sensible guidelines to help slow the spread of Covid without the government having to intervene?
Not sure I understand the question but if you think the guidelines are sensible then I suspect you haven't fully read them. Yes, the Hands Face Space stuff is pretty basic and eminently sensible but if you dig down into the rules, and more importantly how they have been implemented then they are far from sensible and many people are being left behind.
The reason we’re in the middle of a second lockdown is precisely because a subsection of the population thought they were above the rules. The longer we have this ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude, the longer this will go on for, and I for one want my life back.
Nonsense.
After lockdown 1 ended, Boris was pressuring people back to work, putting out stories that those resisting would be first to be made redundant. It was your patriotic duty to go to the pub etc. The chancellor promoted eating in restaurants (since shown to increase CV spread directly). We went from reducing CV transmission right back to increasing it overnight. Continue that for a few months and hey presto, you're back where you started.
All the models for restrictions / lockdowns account for the fact you don't get 100% compliance and never will, there's always a minority who ignore them. The real problem is the restrictions on the 90% weren't high enough to prevent R going above 1.
The Sage scientists were quite clear that Level 2/3 wasn't enough to get R below 1, so we were just slowing the spread slightly, but it was still spreading and Boris knew that and let it carry on.
I took my lad for a quick spin around the cycle paths of a country park earlier. We are lucky enough to be able to ride there easily.
Both car parks rammed, to the point where some will be unable to get their cars out again. Cars parked willy nilly down all the verges.
Many highly unusual looking 'households'. I never knew there were that many 3 generation households. It came as some surprise. Also, lots of what must he multi-family households. Very strange too. And these atypical households also seemed to be operating on a 'zero ****s given' basis when it came to distancing from other groups.
Funnily enough, the last (and only previous) time I noticed so many atypical households was back in April/May. What on earth could be going on here?
The ice cream van was doing a roaring trade and the kids play areas looked like a full trawler net given the amount of kids wriggling, crawling and climbing all over it.
I thought there was a lockdown on. Seems I was mistaken.
That joke is seriously bad. Seriously.
Ouch.
Or am I looking a level beyond what you intended?
Posted 19 hours ago
Way beyond it. There's a trope in Italy about Mussolini "at least he made the trains run on time", occasionally gets applied to Hitler and other dictators. TBH Id only ever heard it said about Hitler in reference to rebuilding Germany during the inter-war period.
https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2009632047/
I think the people on here thinking that we can somehow beat nature and control this virus once it has become endemic and widespread in the population are seriously misguided, as are our government. Yes NZ did it but they started from a very low base and can easily shut their borders as they have shown.
I wonder though how long can a country really shut itself off from the world merely to extend the life of people so ill or elderly that they wouldn't have had long left in any case? And what happens when they release their restrictions being as they have build up zero immunity in their population?
I expect the virus will do what a virus does, whether or not your fellow man has guests round to their house or not, whether you curtain twitch and grass up your neighbour or not.
Unfortunately as Lunge has said, the government want the population to be blamed for the virus. And here we have on this thread, people threatening to grass up their fellow man for some minor transgression. It is convenient for the Government as it hides their own serious failings, their dodgy graphs and the multi-million pound PPE contracts handed out to their mates and donors without scrutiny. If you don't believe me then here's the official communication policy of the government back in March.
Rather than treating us like adults the government wanted us to be fearful of the virus and fearful of each other. This is the reason we now have neighbours snitching on each other. What a sorry state of affairs as a society we have become as a result.
what other people are doing is none of my business.
I'm going to imagine that reducing transmission rates and getting back to normal is very much the OP's business, as it is mine and pretty much everybody else's.
You don’t know other people’s circumstances. You don’t know how difficult lockdown is for them. Everyone is having a different lockdown experience. Maybe be a little more understanding and a little less judgemental
Lockdown has been difficult for everyone. Millions of people have made massive sacrifices. I have very limited sympathy however for someone not being able to go abroad on holiday....that one falls very much under 'first world problems'
I expect the virus will do what a virus does, whether or not your fellow man has guests round to their house or not
Well, social distancing of all forms is the tool we have used to prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths this year. Yes, one decision to forgo the social distancing currently required of us will make little difference to the numbers effected… but if we all made the same decision, it would be people dying in huge numbers in hospital corridors time.
Rather than treating us like adults the government wanted us to be fearful of the virus and fearful of each other.
What does this mean? Have you been reading Spiked too much? And is this conspiracy about “making us scared” by using social distancing as a tool to control this epidemic just something our government has come up with, or are you accusing all the other governments of the world of doing the same? Perhaps, just perhaps, this virus is understood enough to know that social distancing works in slowing the spread, but not quite enough, yet, for alternative prophylactic measures to be used instead. There is no conspiracy to make us “afraid” of the virus, or each other, just a short term need to use social distancing to control community transmission.
Lockdown has been difficult for everyone
It really hasn't. Some people, including me, have it pretty easy and it's had little significant impact. I know plenty of others on here have had it pretty easy too. As was observed last time, we didn't have a lockdown, we had middle class people hiding while the working classes brought them stuff. Some really do have it much tougher than others. We most certainly are not all in same boat, even if we are in the same storm.
It really hasn’t. Some people, including me, have it pretty easy and it’s had little significant impact.
+1, barely noticed Lockdown 2, not affected me at all other than group rides are in pairs rather than 5 or 6.
Lockdown 1 was great, best local road cycling I've ever experienced and are probably likely to do so!
I took my lad for a quick spin around the cycle paths of a country park earlier. We are lucky enough to be able to ride there easily.
Both car parks rammed, to the point where some will be unable to get their cars out again. Cars parked willy nilly down all the verges.
I saw exactly the same on my run today and it didn’t even register.
I have no issue with people meeting outside, the risk of transmission is tiny unless they all start hugging and kissing each other. People are going to meet and it’s better off being outside at a country park rather than in their living room.
Of all the things to get angry about, people meeting in the fresh air for a walk is somewhere towards the bottom of the list.
About half the cars I see at local popular spots don't have local registrations - it was very considerate of them to drive 250 miles north of the border like the couple from Manchester sitting outside the pub at Findhorn the other day. Might have been OK if he didn't look like a dork wearing shorts in November. Dunno which is the greater sin 😉
don’t have local registrations
You what now? Do cars have regional regs again? And are you meant to change the reg plate when you move or if you buy a car from a different part of the UK?
I'm guessing you spoke to the Manchester couple to know they don't live locally - half the accents around here are far from Scottish 🙂
I think the people on here thinking that we can somehow beat nature and control this virus once it has become endemic and widespread in the population are seriously misguided, as are our government.
Some on here argue that we shouldn't have let it become endemic in the first place.
Yes NZ did it but they started from a very low base and can easily shut their borders as they have shown.
They chose to shut their borders, absolutely nothing preventing us from doing the same thing. They started from a very low base because they took drastic measures in the first place.
I wonder though how long can a country really shut itself off from the world merely to extend the life of people so ill or elderly that they wouldn’t have had long left in any case? And what happens when they release their restrictions being as they have build up zero immunity in their population?
It's not only the very ill or extremely elderly dying. NZ and Aus have been able to release restrictions from a low base and haven't seen any issues. When they relax further to allow intl travel, you expect them to do it from a point when vaccination is in play.
I expect the virus will do what a virus does, whether or not your fellow man has guests round to their house or not
Obviously not all viruses are the same. But it's categorically wrong to suggest that close contact has no impact on transmission rates for this virus.
Rather than treating us like adults the government wanted us to be fearful of the virus and fearful of each other.
If one wishes to be treated like an adult, one must first behave like one.
The problem isn't that the government wanted us to be fearful, rather the opposite, the problem is that people aren't fearful enough.
it’s categorically wrong to suggest that close contact has no impact on transmission rates for this virus.
As my boss eloquently put it earlier this week, "if I fart and you can smell it, you're too close."
It's November and I'm wearing shorts. I'm more wary of those that aren't as they're probably soft Southerners, either here on holiday or recently moved into the area.
the problem is that people aren’t fearful enough.
And with good reason now we know more about Covid, because the death rate for Covid for the under 70's is vanishingly small, almost zero risk compared to your chances of dying of many other things.
Going back to the OP there is no point in contacting the police. The odds of them doing anything are low to nil.
Im still not sure what this second so called lockdown is supposed to achieve? And how is it supposed to achieve it when you can still goto work, lots of shops, and schools, full of mobile petri dishes are still open. I dont understand how this is going to achieve anything. To my mind you either do a lockdown and its really strict so it has a real impact or you dont bother. We seem to be in a middle ground with the worst of both extremes and none of the benefits of either.
Is it really that hard to understand? Doing one risky thing doesn't mean everything other thing you do carries no risk. Those are all additional risks. Some risks are more worth taking than others, because of the benefits.
And with good reason now we know more about Covid, because the death rate for Covid for the under 70’s is vanishingly small, almost zero risk compared to your chances of dying of many other things.
Yep. And given the huge negative impact this is having on those of a younger age, those with tiny, tiny chance of death or serious issues, no wonder people are starting to do as they wish.
And before any gives it big licks that I should be doing his shopping for him, stop and think.
I did just that. And now I can’t get Anneka Rice’ behind in a yellow jump suit whilst she’s climbing a ladder out of my head.
At least I’ve forgotten the theme song.
For clarification, I completely forgot the content of the previous paragraphs in your post. Am I getting/already old?
For reference, I’m fairly sure she’s in a lighthouse!
is this the 3rd or 4th iteration of the same thread?
death rate for Covid for the under 70’s
Around 8.8 million over 70s in the UK