Kit Malthouse, predicted that many of the boxes being thrown up on the outskirts of towns would soon be “ripped down and bulldozed” as unsuitable.
I hope not, only just got fibre broadband on order!
The real issue with living on one such estate isn't the houses, either design or quality, it's the amenities. Older suburbs of Cardiff have High Streets with lots of shops both essential and non. They are lovely. Since it's been built more or less concentrically outwards since its heyday in the early 20th century, you can date when they started giving up on subjects. It appears to be around the 1930s when they stopped creating liveable mini-towns and started focusing on private housing. Even the 60s-70s stuff, whilst it has a few clusters of shops and even leisure centres, doesn't have anywhere you'd want to go to get more than a pint of milk and a paper. In our 90s-2010s area, we only have a retail park.
I don't know why they can't put in a strip of shops and restaurants and stuff to actually create something more than a dormitory. The new development across the road is allegedly getting a shop, but that's not enough even though they make it sound like a big deal.
What about all those 70’s and 80’s estates that were built for 20years that are still up?
#telford
🤷♂️🧟♂️
My folks have recently moved, and looked at some of these newer developments, and what struck them (and me) was the number of cars parked on the pavements. The houses have driveways with space for one or two cars, and yet the roads in these developments are chock-full of cars and vans.
They all seem geared towards the car, and not pedestrians or cyclists which, if one was hoping we'd be building for a sustainable future, you would hope would take precedence.
They seem to built now with the expectation that we people are happy to never speak to their neighbour and will always just climb into a car to drive to work some distance away.
Imagine if they actually put some thought in, made them social hubs where people could get to know one another, bike lanes and greenspaces where kids were safe and schools could be walked to without the need for a large SUV....?
It may be seem slightly backwards after years living in cities for me, but i love living in a quiet rural village now, know all the neighbours, frequent the local village shop as much for the gossip as to buy anything, cycle to the pub, wouldn't change it now
We live on a 300 home estate in the north east. They claimed that at the end of the road they were going to build a small amenity area with a pub, some shops and possibly a doctors. Never happened, not going to happen. It's a dormitory of plasterboard tents on reclaimed contaminated land made to look like a country park.
You don't even get a pub with a flat roof on these new developments
I looked round a big new build estate in near lancaster. It's got bubble written all over it as they buy your house off you at full value. Loads of cars as stated and nothing to do. Just loads of little houses with no green space. The congestion at peak times is a nightmare as access is poor. I can see why people buy them as loads of space, en suites, everything new etc.
We have lots of cars on our street for two reasons. One is that the developers gave the smaller houses one driveway and a useless little bit of garden - many owners have made this into a second driveway but not all; and the other is that people just get more cars than they have space for without a care and leave them in the ****ing way all over the place. You have to push pushchairs in the road to get out of the street, around a corner which is now blind because of all the cars on the pavement. Bastards. AND on top of that there's loads of parking space about 20m away up the hill, but that's too far to walk apparently.
I can see why people buy them as loads of space, en suites, everything new etc
In my experience, new builds have no space, 4 bedrooms where there should be 2 or 3, tiny garden not fit for a family house, no privacy.
hot_fiat
Subscriber
We live on a 300 home estate in the north east. They claimed that at the end of the road they were going to build a small amenity area with a pub, some shops and possibly a doctors. Never happened, not going to happen. It’s a dormitory of plasterboard tents on reclaimed contaminated land made to look like a country park.Just walk to the service station or tramp across the fields to the cricket club, what more do you want😂😂
What I don't understand is where are all these people coming from!? There's so many new houses being built round here, thousands. They're squeezing houses into every available space and all the outlying villages have huge Estates tacked into them now (with no extra infrastructure like school places etc') Add soon as each house is finished, someone move straight in despite it still being a building site. But where were all these keen people living before? There must be empty old houses all over the country, our were they all living with their parents!? It doesn't add up to me.
What I don’t understand is where are all these people coming from!? There’s so many new houses being built round here, thousands.
Depends where you live. Around here they're all bought as second/holiday homes.
Some newbuilds are nice, some are trash. It always was the same.
From memory, the increase in the number of houses 'needed' is driven by 3 things :
Shrinking household size
Births
Net Immigration
In that order
The reason they’re building so many is simple - we don’t have enough housing stock in the right place in the UK.
The reason we don’t have enough housing stock is that the combined will of NIMBYs and the desire to have house values rising at way over inflation / salaries resulted in ‘Green Belt’ legislation which meant very few family homes being built in 20 years and millions of tiny flats for the BLT market. This allowed for house prices rises through the ‘Great Recession’ which kept the banks solvent.
The banks are now robust enough to handle a stagnation / reduction in values and there are now more ‘have nots’ in the population than ‘haves’ so suddenly the ‘Green Belt’ isn’t so important.
Millions of new homes are going to be built in the next 10 years, sadly again because of the planning regs most towns and cities have only small patches of land to use and builders have a bit of a monopoly - I know for a fact that Persimmon, who’ve been in the news of late for billing shoddy houses are working to a 40% margin for new houses. They blame a lack of skills for the problems, but in truth they’re forcing workers to throw them up as quick as possible to minimise the time between buying the land and recouping the cost so they can buy the next patch. It’s cheaper to fix the ‘snags’ after they’re paid.
I can’t see a return to a time when you can buy a nice, normal price family home with a decent garden, any sort of storage space or heaven forbid a garage.
I can’t see a return to a time when you can buy a nice, normal price family home with a decent garden, any sort of storage space or heaven forbid a garage.
Maybe not where you live. Still available in other locations.
Just walk to the service station or tramp across the fields to the cricket club, what more do you want
Ahh yes. “Arrl hev a Hot Durg and twa large burttls uv Smirnuf ice.” As heard uttered by one dressing gown and slipper-clad being in the queue for the garage night pay recently. Not been in the cricket club.
What I don’t understand is where are all these people coming from!?
Ladies wombs, mostly. Population is increasing I think.
There are thousands of new houses going up in Cardiff, which is ok cos there's plenty of room. But no-one seems to be interested in upgrading the road network to deal with the extra people. It could get difficult.
I see them get knocked up in no time round my way. I’m no builder but the quality looks poor, I just wonder what they’ll look like in 50 years time?
There are some very simple commercial reasons this happens. Larger houses sold to private owners are more profitable than small commercial. They are also more profitable than RSL or shared ownership, hence regulation.
If developers had their way every development would be a sea 3-5 beds, only regulation will change this
Even infill developments are getting horrendous, a pair of semis near us was demolished and 5 4 storey houses built.
#profitcomesfirst
My folks have recently moved, and looked at some of these newer developments, and what struck them (and me) was the number of cars parked on the pavements. The houses have driveways with space for one or two cars, and yet the roads in these developments are chock-full of cars and vans.
They all seem geared towards the car, and not pedestrians or cyclists which, if one was hoping we’d be building for a sustainable future, you would hope would take precedence.
Ironically you're wrong.
The reason everyone is parked on the pavement is because councils for some reason believe that by only alowing one car space per house that people will suddenly only want one car and just bus/cycle everywhere. They even made the turning into the estate bus only on the one I our village! Trouble is, there's no bus, and the village is pretty much on the m4 so not exactly going to attract cycle commuters.
That would be nice
Population is growing because old people aren't dying in their 60s they live to 80. Housing needs to be built to plan for this.
Westminster (as usual) wants to ignore it so they don't have to do unpopular things like build on golf courses or find money to give to the councils to build the houses that are actually needed for realistic renting or have to plan services like transport or education or health ???!!! Come on they have important stuff like... er...
Yeah it's another social turd being laid for our childrens generation to clear up. Smartest thing our children can do is not have children; completely break the cycle of economic growth
Ahh yes. “Arrl hev a Hot Durg and twa large burttls uv Smirnuf ice.” As heard uttered by one dressing gown and slipper-clad being in the queue for the garage night pay recently. Not been in the cricket club.
Only ever been in CC for “do’s” you could always walk into shiney row.......then again maybe not!
Mostly new builds are awful round here (Staffs) - They throw them up with room for 2 cars at the front (just) and a postage stamp for a garden. They don't build any parks or shops or green areas for the kids to play or if they do it's so small that it's very crowded. There's no where for people to walk their dog, you see them just walking up and down the main road. They all have teeny tiny windows and garages that don't fit a car. I despair when I see them and wonder why do people buy them??
Cramming them in around here - as many bedrooms as possible.
Alot of this around too.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
It pretty much comes down to cars. Everybody in this country outside of some select urban areas drive everywhere anyway, and most attempts to change their minds either fail, or attract huge outrage and then get changed back.
Everyone drives to the supermarket for most of their shopping, or into the nearest town for dinner or drinks. This means that you need a much higher population to support a shop or pub on an estate than when everybody just walked to the local every time. And because everybody wants a detached 3-5 bed with garage and a driveway out front and a garden, and new estates have a much lower population density than traditional terraced housing. And fewer people per room than historically too. It’s rare that one developer will have enough connected land to build an estate large enough to support a shop, and even if they do, the size of it will probably mean that the shops too far away from the houses on the edge for them to bother walking to it anyway.
You can build walkable developments in areas where the amenities are already in place, ie city centres, but land values mean flats, and lots of people choose a garden, garage and a driveway over walking to the shops.
Ironically you’re wrong.
He's not.
My BiL lives on a new estate in the East end of glasgow, all the houses have 2 or 3 spaces for cars, but lots of the inhabitants have at least 3 or 4 cars - works vans, teenage kids cars etc - and this is an estate that has a train station 100 yards down the road with a frequent service into the city, and a main road with decent buses up the road.
Folk are just lazy insular bastards.
" But no-one seems to be interested in upgrading the road network to deal with the extra people"
Most large developments (100+ units) will be subject to a Section 106 agreement with the local authority. Generally this requires a financial commitment to the Local Authority for a number of things including :- road/junction improvements near or associated with the site, possibly a contribution to primary & secondary school provision, a library provision contribution, plus whatever else is considered necessary for the area.
The development will not go ahead until this is agreed. Could it be that the LAs are not keeping their end of the bargain?
Other roadworks might be required under a section 278, which must be in place before a certain number of houses/flats are occupied.
I know there's no other practical choice but the seeming rise in people parking work vans outside their houses is annoying, down my residential road it turns a two lane normal road with good visibility into a single lane where you can't see anything (gentle bend) due to the wall of van sides so just have to hope nothing is coming the other way or there's somewhere to pull back in. It's not helped by the number of dopey idiots that think it's fine to do 30mph through either.
Some nicer looking new builds on the outskirts of Eastbourne BUT most are shocking box things, as others have stated with tiny windows, a drive barely capable of holding two small cars and a postage stamp garden, also very narrow roads as well. No extra Doctor's surgeries, schools or other infrastructure like parks/playgrounds.
There is a plan in progress for more homes near me and the developer scum repeatedly tries to erode the infrastructure I've mentioned above and increase the housing numbers on the plan. I fear it is only a matter of time before the planning team get "incentivised" enough to pass it.
The proposed road junction improvements will just move the horrendous jams we already have at peak time slightly along the road a bit.
oh and Mrs M used to work in a school that was built as part of a plan to knock down an old school and redevelop into housing and a supermarket. Whilst touring the "fantastic" new build school as it was being built she had the temerity to point out that one double power point per classroom was not really good enough. "But that will cost more money........."
Where I live, cars parked on the road is an absolute nightmare. The really annoying thing is that each house has two spaces on a decent size driveway. Me and Mrs W have a car each and occasionally it is a pain in the backside when the rear car is needed, but its no big deal. Other people park one car on the drive and the second half on the road half on the pavement. Double parked quite often. We also have a number of houses with no drive but a large parking area at the rear of their property (almost mews like) - but hardly anyone bothers. This appears to be where people decide to leave their rubbish, washing machines they no longer need etc.
Shops wise, on the new build estate I'm in I can't complain. We have a Tesco express, Indian restaurant (pretty good one at that), fish and chip shop and a Dominos. Schools are all in a handy location and there's even two local drug dealers within 200 metres of the shop and school - sorted!
Most large developments (100+ units) will be subject to a Section 106 agreement with the local authority. Generally this requires a financial commitment to the Local Authority for a number of things including :- road/junction improvements near or associated with the site, possibly a contribution to primary & secondary school provision, a library provision contribution, plus whatever else is considered necessary for the area.The development will not go ahead until this is agreed. Could it be that the LAs are not keeping their end of the bargain?
Certainly round by me this is an issue - there have been complaints in the local press about developers somehow 'forgetting' to follow through on the S106 requirements, or more often paying a sum of money to the council in lieu of their obligations.
Hope someone can do the link, You Tube Peter Paul and Mary Little Boxes, even more relevant now 🙄
I remember my professor of land use planning 20 years ago at Uny describing them as "ghettos of the future" , basically because of lack of amenities, dependance on the car, barrier effect of say distance to town (and aforementioned amenities), a large road or trainline cutting them off . Everything is done to maximise profit (small windows that meet the minimum standard, placing of a crappy playground on the rubbish bit of land that won't sell to build a house, as little infrastructure/green space for the poor cash strapped councils to maintain) and so on. More broken Britain I'm afraid ... 🙂
I can see why people buy them as loads of space, en suites, everything new etc
Well known as the Commuter's / Commuting paradox..
This is what economists call "the commuting paradox." Most people travel long distances with the idea that they'll accept the burden for something better, be it a house, salary, or school. They presume the trade-off is worth the agony. But studies show that commuters are on average much less satisfied with their lives than noncommuters. A commuter who travels one hour, one way, would have to make 40% more than his current salary to be as fully satisfied with his life as a noncommuter, say economists Bruno S. Frey and Alois Stutzer of the University of Zurich's Institute for Empirical Research in Economics. People usually overestimate the value of the things they'll obtain by commuting -- more money, more material goods, more prestige -- and underestimate the benefit of what they are losing: social connections, hobbies, and health. "Commuting is a stress that doesn't pay off," says Stutzer.
People don't want facilities. Estates used to have a chippy, a bookie's and a mini-market at least. Now that is replaced by a delivery moped, pissitaway247 and a shop selling dodgy fags and booze to the underage. The last might not exist unless the estate is old and "council".
People DO want facilities. The places with decent high streets are popular. They just accept that if they move to the 'burbs there won't be any because that's how it's always been.
It's interesting that posters in this thread criticise modern housing for being too small but also population density for being too low.. hmm.
I honestly think that it's just poor design that's at fault here - and that can only be changed by the authorities actually forcing the builders to create something decent. In other words, having a strong strategy well enforced by competent leaders. So we're screwed obviously.
How many threads about shops closing do we have where some bright spark chimes in with ‘I do everything on the internet, I can’t wait to stop having to fund the lives of shop owners, and to put up with their antiquated way of doing business!’
Thats why new shops don’t get built.
and that can only be changed by the authorities actually forcing the builders to create something decent.
Planning departments have been cut to the bone by Austerity, plus they regularly get over ruled by the Secretary of State. The law was also changed to make them responisble for the applicant's legal fees if they loose an objection; thus stacking the odds very much in favour of a developer getting exactly what they want. Throw an expensive legal team at an application and the LA can't afford to fund an appeal, so just caves.
Cambridge is a case in point, we have an approved local plan with site designations but the Secretary of State just over rules the local Planning authority each time and the local plan is completely ignored. Nothing the LA can do about it. The irony being having a local plan is a legal requirement enforced and approved by the Secretary of State, who will then over rule it in exchange for an unrelated 'donation' to Tory party coffers....
djglover & footflaps +1
Look at the donations made to the Tories by housebuilders and it becomes clear why we're getting the wrong kind of houses built on greenfield sites in expensive areas rather than affordable homes built on brownfield sites where people wouldn't have to drive everywhere.
These estates are deeply disturbing but what is far more disturbing is the fact that people actually seem to want to live in them, they actually aspire to the bland dull soulless existence of living in poorly built houses that all look the same.
There are thousands of new houses going up in Cardiff, which is ok cos there’s plenty of room. But no-one seems to be interested in upgrading the road network to deal with the extra people. It could get difficult.
Its' really annoying isn't it.
The original plans for a lot of them include a lot of infrastructure, bus stops, cycle network and yes roads, but as they come closer to being built they don't seem to mention those - it's most like use exiting (busy) network in your car, or roll the dice on some pretty uncycle-friendly road. Frankly it's a case of cramming as many houses into the space as possible.
^^^^
within 2 miles of my house:
controversial site with permission for 52 caravans,
currently building 110 2/3/4/5 houses.
controversial site with permission for 1100 homes, contingent on restoring railway link to nearest city, new school,shops etc.
starting work on 'phase 1' of 750 homes, with all the good stuff in 'phase 2'. odds of phase 2 happening? slim to none.
Good timing.
We’re currently looking to move, 30 miles up the road to Salisbury, so the wife can be walking distance to her Mum (actually my idea).
Currently we own an ex local authority 1950s semi. It’s not the most attractive. But solid, and big! Big gardens f/r too. It backs on to big playing fields. Space wasn’t such as issue a few decades ago? I bought it as it was good value.
We went to look at some of the new builds (the development is half done, so people living in a building site, where the end of the road is just sand/gravel and diggers). My wife loves these, they are all shiny and new, and have ensuites etc.
I hated them thoroughly, escp in contrast to our current old house (tbf I knew I would).
They are typically small and thin. Very very overlooked, no privacy. Postage stamp garden. They do have garages, but stupidly, not next to the house. Lots of odd decision with the planning and design. We did look at a similar existing development adjacent to this new one, which is prob couple decades old. The cars parked everywhere did stand out to me.
An old house, with a bit of life in it for me every time.
Loads in Cheshire round Jct 18. Awful commuter hubs for idiots to buy.
