[Closed] Bitcoin Mining - And other Cryptocurrencies

All it will take is for someone whose holding a significant number of BTC to dump them &.....

I'd be tempted to if I were in that position.

As a market goes this is red hot!

I'd stay away now quite frankly, this kind of growth is unsustainable & a little suspicious IMHO. If something looks too good to be true.......

As a market goes this is red hot!

It went well beyond that some time ago....

Millions of [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory ]greater fools[/url] jumping on the bandwagon hoping to make their fortune.

You'd think bitcoin was some sort of spring-blooming perennial herbaceous bulbiferous geophytes.

Never been interested in this bitcoin stuff [url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/07/rbs-sir-howard-davies-bitcoin-dantes-inferno-digital-currency ]but now it's got my attention[/url]. What's going on then? Are they really concerned about a modern version of tulipmania, or are they more bothered about the fact they don't control it and it's a potential threat to established state-run currencies?

I'd stay away now quite frankly, this kind of growth is unsustainable & a little suspicious IMHO. If something looks too good to be true.......

This has been said for a long time.

It's worth the ride if you can afford to lose your capital.

Biggest issue is trying to sell when it's risen so much. System becomes chaotic.

I have sold to cash pounds notes a few times though.

are they more bothered about the fact they don't control it and it's a potential threat to established state-run currencies?

This is part of it, and part of its appeal.

All it will take is for someone whose holding a significant number of BTC to dump them &.....

And currently they will get bought up.

Can I ask what is probably a dumb question please? 😀

Is the reason mining is so hardware intensive simply because if mining were "easy" then by implication the market would be flooded with bitcoins and devaluing them entirely?

A bit like if massive, massive gold reserves were suddenly found the price of gold would tumble?

Am I being too literal in my interpretation?

I'm just curious as to why the masses of processing power is needed and that's the only reason I can think of?

Thanks guys!

Prices have gone mental today. Started off at under £11k (which is still a significant rise from the £7800 I bought at 6 days ago), an hour ago they went through £14,500, back down to £11,500 now.

Madness!

Is the reason mining is so hardware intensive simply because if mining were "easy" then by implication the market would be flooded with bitcoins and devaluing them entirely?

Yes, it's to regulate the supply with the further twist that it gets progressively even harder as more and more coins are mined.

It is madness.

Btw if you want to invest in bitcoin or ethereum without the hassle, open a stocks and shares account and invest in xbt trackers. I opened my account with £100, stuck it on xbt.btc and it's now worth 160 (woo!). I intend to leave it there for 20 years as a marker for what happened to btc.

As a market goes this is red hot!

What's going on then? Are they really concerned about a modern version of tulipmania, or are they more bothered about the fact they don't control it and it's a potential threat to established state-run currencies?

Speculative bubbles aren't a good thing, so stopping them would be a start.

Also, the main attraction of Bitcoin and others, is the lack of control i.e. ideal for laundering money / selling drugs / guns / people etc.

Eventually it will end up being regulated unless it completely collapses first.

Although the best bit is when people use some dubious exchange and watch their money vanish. Either because the owners are crooks or because they were too cool to harden their systems.

It's an inherent flaw in the system though. With no central regulation, all you have to do is hack someone / an exchange and you can take their money and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Anyone can be hacked, just a matter of how hard it is to do so.

Reminds me of the Tech bubble / crash of 2001. I was working for a tiny loss making start up which was burning through cash like it was going out of fashion and we were valued (and trading on NASDAQ) at over $4bn. Totally insane. Company folded in the crash and all the share holders were wiped out. Although it was was chicken feed compared on Enron etc.

This has been said for a long time.

A 30% rise in value in one day is not what I call sustainable & more to the point, the hallmark of a bubble.

And currently they will get bought up.

The definition of a greater fool right there.

It's a commodity with no intrinsic value other than that fact that people want some. Apart from a very few outlets BTC is not a handy currency to hold.

At least daffodils look nice plus they come back every year!

You can't say that much about BTC.

Blockchain, however, is far more interesting. It's uses could have a far greater benefit if they could be implemented into everyday finance for example.

To add: I was chatting to a friend whose the global asset manager for a major bank & we were talking about BTC.

He said he couldn't find anyone who was willing to short BTC, which I thought was rather telling.

Still, there will be those who'll make money & those who lose money on BTC. Though I doubt BTC itself will be game changer some predict it to be.

When it crashes, & im pretty sure it will, what happens next will be interesting..

Blockchain, however, is far more interesting. It's uses could have a far greater benefit if they could be implemented into everyday finance for example.

Need to figure out a way for it not to be incredibly slow and power hungry.

Need to figure out a way for it not to be incredibly slow and power hungry.

elliptic - Member
Is the reason mining is so hardware intensive simply because if mining were "easy" then by implication the market would be flooded with bitcoins and devaluing them entirely?
Yes, it's to regulate the supply with the further twist that it gets progressively even harder as more and more coins are mined.

Really quite fiendish really, clever.

Just seems a waste of computing power though to create the bottleneck?

Still, interesting stuff!

The Bitcoin Network's groaning a bit this evening...anything above 10,000 unconfirmed transactions tends to slow things down, even with higher network transaction fees:

[url= http://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions ]Blockchain Info[/url]

Regardless of whether it would add anything in a particular scenario.

Cf. “Private blockchain”

Oh, you mean a glorified database? Sure, we’ll spend thousands on oracle, why not spread the love...

^^^^^^^
Difference is you can delete rows from an Oracle table whereas blockchain is an immutable ledger. Some case studies in finance already out [url= https://www.ibm.com/blockchain/infographic/finance.html ]there[/url]

So how do you sell safely to GBP? Always seems very vague...

So how do you sell safely to GBP? Always seems very vague

I've said this quite a lot.

You can sell in blockchain to gbp. I've done it several times.

However blockchain is turning into a pain to buy. None of my cards work with it for some reason.

[url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania?wprov=sfla1 ]Tulip Mania [/url]

People keep relating and linking to Tulip Mania and Greater Fool Theory (housing market) and whilst there is always those ideas at play, it doesn't actually explain it away just to say everyone is a bit dumb and is clearly a bubble.

The whole situation is without precident and quite clearly has its own set of rules.

And also these things have been said time and time again. Sure it will crash and correct over it's natural life cycle but it's not going away.

It is unsecured and unregulated, it's not an investment its a punt, if you're happy with that cool.

Since when has anything being secured or regulated made for a safer investment?

Sure it's not 'backed' by anything we are familiar with as a measure of value but as we have seen in the past, security and regulation is only as good as the people and system behind it, who happen to have shown themselves to be a corrupt self serving bunch.

Not invested myself but it seems a lot are more angry that they have not made a quick buck than the fact they actually think it's a 'scam' of sorts - FOMO as the 'millenials' call it.

From what I see, I think bitcoin won't be the future of currency, It may also 'crash' in the future but blockchain technology will last and is going to play a huge role going forward, that's obvious - bitcoin will just bring the worlds attention to it.

Difference is you can delete rows from an Oracle table whereas blockchain is an immutable ledger.

Its messy but it depends on how many people are involved in mining the blockchain.

It is unsecured and unregulated, it's not an investment its a punt, if you're happy with that cool.

I am. I think the returns you get certainly on the high street aren't worth spit.

And I've lost plenty on investments of the years. Regulation and all.

It's a gamble with the odds a bit in your favour.

Like anything new it's going to have to go through its own evolution. And anything that pisses Jamie Dimon off works for me.

There is nothing that makes people take greater financial risks than the fear of other people making $$$ when they're not.

I'm cool with missing out on bitcoin. I think...! Might get some exposure to gold for the inevitable rebound though.

People keep relating and linking to Tulip Mania and Greater Fool Theory (housing market) and whilst there is always those ideas at play, it doesn't actually explain it away just to say everyone is a bit dumb and is clearly a bubble.

It's called greed. The ONLY reason people are buying is they keep seeing the price go up and think 'I can get rich on this'.

That explains it 100%.

All the techies, who believe blockchain is the new messiah, were in it years ago when it was worth less than a tulip bulb.

All the recent people who have just converted to the blockchain religion in the last year or so, don't understand what blockchain is and never will. They just think they can make a fast buck. They'd buy dog shit if it was having the same price rises.

Even if banks start using BlockChain, it won't be Bitcoin and it won't increase bitcoins value. Bitcoin can't scale (already struggling with transaction volume), so it has no long term wide scale future. The underlying technology probably has a future, but that doesn't add any intrinsic value to Bitcoin (which has an intrinsic value of nothing).

Some of us have seen these tech bubbles before...

[img] [/img]

anything above 10,000 unconfirmed transactions tends to slow things down

Currently showing 226,000 unconfirmed transactions.

Seems to have dropped from £12,500 to £11,500 this morning.

Is this the beginning of the crash? Or "Blow off phase" on Footflaps' diagram.

Even if banks start using BlockChain, it won't be Bitcoin and it won't increase bitcoins value. Bitcoin can't scale (already struggling with transaction volume), so it has no long term wide scale future. The underlying technology probably has a future, but that doesn't add any intrinsic value to Bitcoin (which has an intrinsic value of nothing).

Some of us have seen these tech bubbles before...

You are making some fairly bold assertions on this thread. What makes you think it can't scale? It is under constant development. Segwit and the Lightning network for example.

NewRetroTom - Member
anything above 10,000 unconfirmed transactions tends to slow things down
Currently showing 226,000 unconfirmed transactions.

Seems to have dropped from £12,500 to £11,500 this morning.

Is this the beginning of the crash? Or "Blow off phase" on Footflaps' diagram.

Or the take off? 8)

What makes you think it can't scale?

For it to gain widespread adoption it will need to be regulated, which will mean speculative bubbles will be prevented from happening.

If the current Bitcoin incarnation does manage to grow, it will also be regulated or outlawed as having a wildly unstable unregulated money laundering scheme is in no one's long term interests.

Either way, at some point Bitcoin is going to come crashing down and it won't go back up....

It's take off was in 2013 really when it went over $1000 dollars then returned to around $200. It only really got going again the Spring of this year; I'e been following it all through this as a mate got in big-time in 2014 and was curious to see how it would work out. He could now retire but has no plans to sell.

Is this the beginning of the crash? Or "Blow off phase" on Footflaps' diagram.

We're in the Greed / Delusion phase ie. wide spread media attention, every man and his dog want to get in on it, people claiming it's the 'future' not knowing what 'it' even is or having the faintest clue about economics / monetary policy.

The unknown is how long it will stay there and how high it will get.

There's even a IFA at my gym recommending people buy it...

it will also be regulated or outlawed

how

how

Trivial.

At some point a transaction takes place between real money, eg GBP, and speculative bubble money eg Bitcoin. Those companies use real banks which are already regulated, so you just regulate the ability to exchange real money into Bitcoin.

Could easily prevent anyone in the UK buying / selling.

It's no different to regulating gambling or share dealing, most of the regulation / tax takes place at the transaction point.

Yes a very small number of geeks might use the onion router to connect to a Chinese bitcoin exchange and buy/sell, but how do they get their money back to the UK to spend? They'd be in the same situation as drug dealers trying to launder money, only harder as it's not cash....

Just need Europe and US to start regulating and the bubble would burst overnight.

All this Robin Hood BS, "taking over from the banks", 'giving back control' is just a teenage wet dream.

But I can already buy and sell bitcoin using sites in various countries around the world in yen, gbp, usd, rubles or whatever. In fact I already do use EUR because it saves fees. The process is trivial.

I don't see how that can be regulated given that anybody around the world can pop up a new site at any time to perform the exchange of fiat for crypto.

[quote=retro83 ]But I can already buy and sell bitcoin using sites in various countries around the world in yen, gbp, usd, rubles or whatever. In fact I already do use EUR because it saves fees. The process is trivial.
I don't see how that can be regulated given that anybody around the world can pop up a new site at any time to perform the exchange of fiat for crypto.

The world has done a fairly good job of killing off file sharing. OK you can still do it but most people don't bother anymore. Surely this is no different? Country policy to block access to servers etc.

mrjmt - Member

The world has done a fairly good job of killing off file sharing. OK you can still do it but most people don't bother anymore. Surely this is no different? Country policy to block access to servers etc.

What killed file sharing was netflix and spotify, not regulation. Besides piracy is still alive and kicking in the form of live streaming.

But I can already buy and sell bitcoin using sites in various countries around the world in yen, gbp, usd, rubles or whatever. In fact I already do use EUR because it saves fees. The process is trivial.

But can you get the money back to a UK account without using a Regulated banking system.

The answer is not without extreme difficulty.

If the UK banned banks from doing transactions with bitcoin exchanges, you'd be cut off.

What killed file sharing was netflix and spotify, not regulation.

I agree.

The difference is Bitcoin doesn't offer a service or product 99.99% people want / need, it's just a method to get rich quick (for the time being). So, once the bubble bursts, 99.99% of users will walk away and never look back. If you're selling drugs / guns / slaves on the black market, then it has a real value.

[quote=retro83 ]mrjmt - Member
The world has done a fairly good job of killing off file sharing. OK you can still do it but most people don't bother anymore. Surely this is no different? Country policy to block access to servers etc.
What killed file sharing was netflix and spotify, not regulation. Besides piracy is still alive and kicking in the form of live streaming.

Aren't netflix and spotify the 'regulated' equivalents though?

[quote=footflaps ]But I can already buy and sell bitcoin using sites in various countries around the world in yen, gbp, usd, rubles or whatever. In fact I already do use EUR because it saves fees. The process is trivial.
But can you get the money back to a UK account without using a Regulated banking system.
The answer is not without extreme difficulty.
If the UK banned banks from doing transactions with bitcoin exchanges, you'd be cut off.

Again, kill the transaction point (torrent tracker servers), kill the system.

He could now retire but has no plans to sell.