[Closed] Best Van for conversion to a camper

Short arse?

Is so you can sleep cross-ways in a Ducato et c.

APF

My lad just bought a 2013 Renault Trafic L2 H1 and it looks a pretty good van for conversion.
It'll be getting fitted out before summer so was bought with a camper in mind.

I have a Transit custom which is an awesome van, far far better than the VW in the cab area etc and I've seen a few converted and they were smart as cats.

Is so you can sleep cross-ways in a Ducato et c.

Does anyone make 'pop out foot space' for such vans? It seems a solution to length of bed across the van.

Does anyone make ‘pop out foot space’ for such vans? It seems a solution to length of bed across the van.

What a bloody good idea. Surprised I've never seen that before.

Are you going to want to re register it as a camper?
If so, I'm not sure that poptops count anymore, I think they changed the rules to require them to be high tops

[s]Surely someone could make a plastic pop out panel, hinged at the top and moulded & insulated to just add 10-20cm of foot space?...hmmmm[/s]

Sorted.

https://www.flarespace.com
https://functional-design.de/longsleeper.html
https://camperpunt.nl/bedverlenger-buscamper/#jp-carousel-287

If you want to change the body type to a camper and not be subject to van restrictions then you have to satisfy the DVLA:

- 2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body (this does not include windows on the driver or passenger doors) to provide a reasonable amount of daylight into the living accommodation
- a separate door which provides access to the living accommodation of the vehicle (this excludes the driver and passenger doors); a window on this door counts as a separate window on the main body
- motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle
- an awning bar attached to either side of the vehicle
- a high-top roof (this does not include a pop-top elevating roof)

You also need the following internals too:

- seats and a table
- sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats
- cooking facilities
- storage facilities

Love the idea of pop-out foot space to put the bed across the van, surely someone's had a go at a DIY one?

One of the German conversion companies does a pop out bed extension on one of their conversions. Looks like a window when closed but slides out. Maybe Dethleffs or someone like that? Remember seeing it in a magazine.

“Best” for what? More room, more economical, more power, cheaper to buy?

The T5/T6 are most popular and so have by far the most conversion kit available - even for something like a pop roof there’s dozens of options. Going outside that is fine particularly if you’re happy to DIY/fabricate stuff as you go but what are you trying to do better?

Westfalia, HymerCar plus others are doing it now

Mostly for Sprinter, Crafter and MAN TGE Vans

I did a renault trafic in 2016 and to be fair it's been amazing. However if I did it again I'd do a ducato/relay/boxer (they're all the same van) as it's the standard van for professional conversions (so lots of bits and pieces can be bought for them that fit custom - e.g. underslung water tanks), they're galvanised (like the trafic but unlike a transit or sprinter), and you can sleep sideways which is a huge boon.

– motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle

I'd always wondered why so many people stuck shitty decals on their campers. had no idea it was a requirement!

Those DVLA rules are bullshit. Demanding a Hi-top is stupid, as is demanding graphics. At least the graphics can be binned straight after.

Stupid.

Short arse?

Is so you can sleep cross-ways in a Ducato et c.

Don’t need to be a short arse. I’m 6’2 and sleep across mine easily at 1m from the floor.

 

If you want to change the body type to a camper [...] then you have to satisfy the DVLA:

Correct.

and not be subject to van restrictions

Incorrect.

In order not to be subject to van restrictions, it has to meet the legal definition of a "motor caravan" and be less than 3050kg unladen weight. DVLA body type is *not* relevant in laws about speed limits.

Are you restricted for size? Height, length, width?

I’ve had VW campers for years starting with a Type 2 Aircooled van and finishing with a T5.

I’m now in the middle of converting a Citroen Relay, the amount of space is amazing compared to what I’ve had before.

But it’s 6m long and 2.5m tall.

You need to decide what your priorities are and what you are happy to compromise on.

Those DVLA rules are bullshit. Demanding a Hi-top is stupid,

Not having a hitop is stupid.

As for what makes the best camper it depends whether you are willing to put up with a tent on the side/roof or you want a self contained unit.

Thanks all for the replies and really useful info! I had no idea about the DVLA rules ! I’ll need to look into that.

I have two kids so it needs to be good for 4 people to sleep in. I don’t want a huge van on my drive either as the will upset the neighbours.

I was thinking of a SWB transit with a pop up roof so that the kids can sleep up there. A tent on top would work I suppose.

My Garage mechanic told me to stay away from transporters as the engine will go at some point and when it does it’s expensive apparently! He said that he’s seen plenty of them in his garage.

How old are the kids? Unless they're very wee or this is just a short term thing then SWB tranny is too small.

<Details>
We bought a LWB T5 at the same point we got kid 1 15 years ago. Kid 2 2 years younger.
Was great until about 3 or 4 years ago where they just got too big and fighty to sleep in the roof together<\dets>

As said above vehicle body type does not dictate speed limit.

The body type should only be used to help identify the vehicle by authorities.

I would say transporter but you rule them out so I will say Renault Trafic.

To try and summarise a chat I had with MC from this forum, who is a fleet mechanic by profession and so works on a lot of vans... Any mistakes will be mine, I was looking at mwb or lwb hightops with a £5000-£6000 ish budget. Rust- modern big french and italian vans are galvanised, sprinters rust but don't fall apart like transits, Transits everything rusts (in my price range, basically every transit has the word "welding" in the sales ad, it's like buying a classic car). Transits and Sprinters nicer to drive. Vans that don't have a RWD version tend to have lower floors, especially Fiat.

Lots of badge engineering- Boxer/Relay/Ducato all related, Renault Vauxhall and Nissan pretty much the same van. French and Italian worse for parts availability, Ford VW and Merc not a problem, Vauxhall in the middle.

Probably worth adding the words "race van" to your searches if you're wanting to use it for biking. They're usually built for gokarts or motorbikes but that gives you a big garage for mountain bikes that'll also allow for other storage, usually with the bed over the garage. (interior bike storage puts a lot more pressure on space, rear garage with a bed over it seems best for bikes anyway)

The DVLA rules are hilariously bad, though, I understand it's not designed to be prescriptive- ie if it's blatantly a campervan but doesn't have an awning or awning bar then it can still qualify. But the poptop thing is just madness

Wait....having a large van on the drive will upset the neighbours?! Unless its blocking their access then surely it fall into the 'tough shit' category?!

Nicest 'large' van I've ever driven is a Renault Master. Better than a Sprinter imo. My moho is on a Ducato and is brand new.....if you like feeling like you're driving a car from 2002 then get a Ducato.....cruise control is bad to the point that it's easier to just use the pedals too! Still bloody love our motorhome though....which is good as we've moved into it full time!

Yes they do make pop out foot space (and head space) in the form of pods that go on similar to a window for various vans.

Crafter.

**** the neighbours.

Not having a hitop is stupid.

Sorry, I'm going to have to call you out on that one cause it's bullshit. Why would you think that ?
Is it because you've never had a camper ? Not every on needs a Hi top fitted and for good reasons.

Stupid.

He's got a big red campervan .....and some very strong opinions which are basically why don't other people want the same campervan that works well for him?

Classic STW. I'm right 'cos it's what I want/have/need. We're all guilty of it at times

It'll be interesting to watch this thread given your  reactions to threads in the last few days😜

Classic STW. I’m right ‘cos it’s what I want/have/need. We’re all guilty of it at times

Never a truer word said, especially the last part. 🙋

If you want it to be classed as a camper it needs to be a hi top

a high-top roof (this does not include a pop-top elevating roof)

From here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan

We got that already, we're deciding if it's stupid lol.

Just in the process of getting costs to convert a L3h3 Boxer. Aiming for a pop up roof and transverse bunks at the back. Move the twin seats to the back and add two swivels. I want to be able to stop and not have to make beds every night. Having a caravan has taught us that for us it just a ball ache every night and morning getting it all out and away again. Going for a induction job and no gas. Not planning to be off grid too much and can cook outside on a cadac if we want to. Diesel heater and a good battery setup should see us ok. Going to also get booking a few sites for summer, it could be busy!

Grumpy edit

convert a L3h3 Boxer. Aiming for a pop up roof

You putting in an upstairs room ? A pop top on an H3 van ? Should be awesomely high inside.

Would be great to see but I have never seen an H3 with elevating roof.

Correction it’s an h2. You are correct that would be a bit top heavy!

But awesome all the same Haha. You could have a viewing gallery !!

Ducato style Vans with pop-tops have been around for a few years now. Hymer were the first ones I saw but even UK brands are doing them. It's the trend in 2021 looky here

https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/adventure

It seems an ugly solution to length of bed across the van.

As @elshal has posted, Hymer have been doing Ducato and Sprinter based stuff with a pop top for a few years. Loads of manufacturer are now offering it.

The Hymer 4wd Sprinter Concept thing really does look awesome!

On the 'size' issue, it really does depend on how you view your camper. Is it a van you can sleep in, or a home you can drive around in?

I've done both. The 'van you can sleep in' is rubbish when you have to spend any lengthy period of time in it (like, when it's raining or when the midgies are out). The 'home you can drive around in' is amazing, apart from when you have to put fuel in it or you want to get anywhere quickly.

It's a compromise.

Edit: and neither of mine are registered as motorhomes. Doesn't make any difference to anything as far as I can tell.

Would be great to see but I have never seen an H3 with elevating roof.

Somewhere I have a picture of a sprinter with what looks like the roof of a T4 westfalia grafted on the top.

If it's over the bed it's probably quite nice although Height barriers must have been a real issue!

Bad gateway double post

All these sound good.

Ok . Let's rephrase that . Hitops are not stupid.

Vans you can't stand up in as camper vans are stupidMisrable

Now to blow your mind..... If your spending any time not on a serviced campsite ....you'll be needing/wanting a toilet/portadunny

Jon, don't worry too much about the DVLA Motorcarvan requirements. They have clamped down and no panel van conversion is guaranteed to be reregistered (too many people trying it to get the non-commercial speed limits). You just need to ensure youn meet any definition your insurance provider provides.

I've got a 6' sideways bed into an Iveco Daily (fairly drastic use of the grinder required on the internal structure) and I know it can be done in the Ducato.

However, that panel popout in the Sprinter is a nice idea and with some effort it could probably be made invisible when not sleeping by bonding the standard bonded glass to the popout and not the window frame.

Once it’s over 1.9/2m I don’t suppose it’s any different.

Wait….having a large van on the drive will upset the neighbours?! Unless its blocking their access then surely it fall into the ‘tough shit’ category?!

Some of us like to be considerate community members. Why crap on your own back doorstep?

Indeed, it’s nice to be nice😀

We converted our T6 to what we wanted and needed, not what the DVLA dictates. It works v well for us - we slept in it for 20 nights between lockdown 1 & 2 and we just accept we do 50 mph on most roads. Design what works for you.

We actually binned off the pop top idea for various reasons of our own consideration and it works for us.

Oh and get a portapotty regardless in COVID world as many places need you to be self contained.

Some of us like to be considerate community members. Why crap on your own back doorstep?

It's a van, not the £350m Brexit bus, go round most areas of housing in the UK and you'll see loads of them parked in drives or kerbside.

you’ll see loads of them parked in drives or kerbside.

You'll see a lot of dog mess too. That doesn't mean its what people want or like. Our neighbour has a big van. It takes up two spaces on an already full road so he parks round the corner where there aren't any houses.

Wow, so much to consider , thanks for all the comments! To give a bit more info I intend to keep it on the drive most of the time and not use it as a daily run about or commute.
We are a very outdoors family and like to drive to places on the weekend. It would be nice to have the option to stay overnight somewhere if we feel like it, basically giving us a bit more freedom and the fun factor too.

My kids are 6 and 7. I love the big camper vans but I’d prefer something a bit smaller as most of our trips will be short. We do want to go abroad in it once a year though. Maybe eurocamp etc.

cheers

Christ, it's grim when someone goes straight to the dog shite argument! lol!

Wow, so much to consider , thanks for all the comments! To give a bit more info I intend to keep it on the drive most of the time and not use it as a daily run about or commute.

On the basis of you not driving it as a daily, I'd recommend ignoring the T5/Vivaro/Transit Custom sized vans and going bigger, especially with kids of that age. They'd quickly in a few years get fed up sharing a double bed in a pop-top, and generally a smallish van like that you'll be tripping over each other when the weather's rubbish.

The real benefit of something T5/Vivaro/Transit Custom sized is they can be used as a daily without much compromise over a car, but bigger vans which make more usable campers are much more of a chore as a daily driver. Plus you can fit a proper toilet in a bigger van which makes or breaks off-grid use.

The OP wasn't on about parking it on the road though was he?! I really fail to see how having a van parked on your drive can be seen as being inconsiderate?! Any yeah, dogshit and all that.....

How you are going to store it is definitely something you need to consider though, especially if it is parked for most of the year. Great if you.have plenty of space.

I have two kids so it needs to be good for 4 people to sleep in. I don’t want a huge van on my drive either as the will upset the neighbours.

Hire the size you think you want, then decide.

IMO 4 folk in a SWB van on a wet day sounds miserable.

Fair point, I appreciate I'm fairly lucky in that respect.

There are different needs for different folks here.

I used a Hiace for 2 adults 2 grandkids and 3 dogs including 2 large lurchers. You just make it fun. It's camping after all. (Thats why they are called camper vans, they aren't motor caravans.)

I used a Kyam awning and never had an issue with size. Oh and no toilet just a shovel.

Next one will be a 7m Motorhome with en-suite for 2 adults. Different requirements.

I really fail to see how having a van parked on your drive can be seen as being inconsiderate?

we aren't allowed to keep commercial vehicles or motorhomes in our street (every house has a drive they park on, so its not a question of taking up space), I imagine as they are large, ugly things that don't fit in with the surroundings.

The last house I owned had plenty of converted panel vans parked along it, a lot of them with hippies living full time in them as it was the closest free parking to town (Brighton). I didn't mind, but I can certainly see why others would.

Indeed, I wouldn't want my own on my drive let alone a blooming great van towering over us from next door. Also, bloody obvious when you are on holiday. We are lucky as I can park it at work.

 I wouldn’t want my own on my drive let alone a blooming great van towering over us from next door

Hahaha I take it that you don't have many working class tradesman types near you then?! Seriously, it's a van ffs...growing up we survived with my Dad's Transit parked up outside just fine, as did the neighbours.

Ha Ha, I have three vans and a pickup, I only bring home what is required. There are a few vans on the road but a camper is nearly always going to be on the drive. It's use pattern is quite different to a daily van user. It is a preference, not something I would get worked up about..

T5/T6 - the amount of stuff to help you convert them both products and companies is massive. So much bigger than the markets for any other type of smallish van.

Theres 4 of us (me, the wife, 11 year old and 8 year old) + dog and size has never been too much of a problem plus it'll happily do Tesco/B&Q runs no problem. I was pretty much dailying mine before lockdown and parking it in my works car park, something I wouldn't have been able to do with anything bigger as its the same length as a Passat etc.

That said, I keep thinking about a Crafter/Sprinter/MAN...

T5/T6 – the amount of stuff to help you convert them both products and companies is massive. So much bigger than the markets for any other type of smallish van.

This is very true. Converting a Trafic made me realise just how much difference in the size of marketplace there was.

Theres 4 of us (me, the wife, 11 year old and 8 year old) + dog and size has never been too much of a problem

Not so much. My LWB/Pop-top Trafic handles the two of us very well. The idea of getting a couple of kids in there too doesn't appeal at all, especially once you factor wet clothing into it.

Some places have covenants or local bylaws forbidding commercial vehicle etc from parking in the street. Some might apply to motorhomes / boats etc as well.

Some places have covenants or local bylaws forbidding commercial vehicle etc from parking in the street. Some might apply to motorhomes / boats etc as well.

Yep - we have one of those. It also includes limits on the number of pets per household (one dog, two cats). I was a bit concerned about it before we moved in but it's roundly ignored.

You can have a pet Honey Badger then. Perfect.

Every day is a school day! I'd heard of the caravan covenants on some new build estates that seem to be fairly well ignored! Never knew of a commercial vehicle one though?! What the hell does a tradesman with a van do then if he lives in the middle of one of these estates, park a mile away every night?!

Apologies OP I appear to have derailed this somewhat.

Recently sold my T5 cause it had 3 driving seats and we hare now 4.

Bought a new shape 2014 Transit minibus to convert.
Reducing down to 5 proper seats AND a double bed all at the same time. Big Day van rather than including a toilet and a kitchen.

Chose it over anything else because its so nice to drive. Doesn't really feel like a commercial vehicle like a crafter or sprinter., just an antisocially large and heavy car.
rumours of there being quite a few "friday" vans, engines melting or cracking at 60k miles, but equally there are so many out there i think its luck of the draw, and i'll cross that bridge when i come to it

What puzzles me about the DVLA requirements linked to is it says

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

and it's not a requirement for insurance, nor for being OK to sleep in - so what is the point?

The camping vs home on wheels is such a valid point.
We have l2h2 ducato. Thats the mwb. For 2 years it was our only vehicle.
In nornal times we will around 100 nights away.
There are only 2 of us.
It never feels like camping, lots of room, proper bed, move around heating etc...
It fits in supermarket spaces and can turn around on small lanes etc...
Very manoeuvrable.

For us it's the perfect size. I didn't want a pop top as i want to be able to stand up all the time, pack more things and it would be cold in winter.

A friend has a lwb sprinter and has to consider more carefully, sometimes, where to park, can i turn around etc...

You could easily have 4 people in our size ducato, but then it is more like camping, not packing stuff, small space logistics etc...

For me, a family =big van or proper motorhome.

b33k34
Full Member

What puzzles me about the DVLA requirements linked to is it says

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

and it’s not a requirement for insurance, nor for being OK to sleep in – so what is the point?

Again just repeating things I have read rather than experienced, but-

Slightly easier and cheaper MOT in a lot of cases (Class VII van becomes a class IV motor caravan which also means more test stations can test it)
Possibly cheaper insurance- certainly more options
Easier to get contents insurance- van insurance is commercial-focused, not personal posessions focused.
People say cheaper bridge and ferry tolls but I'm not sure that's true- probably goes more off appearance than DVLA registration? Probably you can feel more confident in saying "camper" when you've got a bit of paper that says it is one)

Ferry fees are certainly an issue. I had to argue long and hard not to pay a commercial rate on the IoM ferry and even going across to/through the Western Isles there are significant differences in cost.

Also, some campsites won't allow "commercial vans" on site at all. Of course, you can always argue this when you turn up but if it's registered as a campervan then that's one less thing to worry about.

I really fail to see how having a van parked on your drive or the road, you know the public highway, can be seen as being inconsiderate?!

We've a self converted LWB T5 with a pop top, bed/sofa lengthways, fridge, underslung gas tank, heater, swivel captain chairs, kitchen at the rear so that you can cook inside or out.

For what it is, it's good. Week long trips are mostly fine. Anything longer and it's a pain.

Bikes on the outside exposed to the weather, road salt and on view. Not much space for wet or dirty clothes; . Pop top acts like a sail; you my want to try sleeping up there in high winds.

VWs are overrated, imo.

Need to sell it after I get the manifold fixed /replaced.

Will replace with a super high, super long Ducato.

The idea of having the bikes inside, a permanent bed, dedicated kitchen, seating and being able to stand without potentially hitting your head (which despite the pop top happens often) are all things I wish I had considered before buying and converting the van.
Also being able to park up without everyone knowing you're obviously camping is a plus. Don't tend to use campsites and prefer to park up off the beaten track.

Despite living in Germany I tend to sit on the autobahn at around 95kmh rather than 170kmh. What's the rush? Besides, diesel isn't free. Ducato sitting at 95kmh isn't much thirstier than the T5 doing the same speed.

I would suggest one of the ducato/ boxer/ Citroen vans. It’s the same van and as has been said if you less than 6 ft then you can sleep across it which frees up lots of space inside. They come in 4 lengths and 3 heights so You can then pick the length and height of the van that suits your needs

The camping vs home on wheels is such a valid point.

Is what I was about to say about many of these comments. For what we've put into our T5 we could have bought a LOADS bigger van and probably had change for a nice bike or two as well. But thats not what we wanted (shock horror!). When buying a bike do you just go for the biggest, mostest, gnarliest travel or buy something that suits you needs and what you want?

Our T5 was and still is the perfect tool for us but as mentioned, I do find myself drawn to something bigger sometimes but for day to day use it simply wouldn't work for us.

@alpin have you added the bold bit to my sentence to make a point or something? 😳 what an incredibly odd thing to do!

Slightly easier and cheaper MOT in a lot of cases (Class VII van becomes a class IV motor caravan which also means more test stations can test it)
Possibly cheaper insurance- certainly more options
Easier to get contents insurance- van insurance is commercial-focused, not personal posessions focused.
People say cheaper bridge and ferry tolls but I’m not sure that’s true- probably goes more off appearance than DVLA registration? Probably you can feel more confident in saying “camper” when you’ve got a bit of paper that says it is one)

The MOT one doesn't require the DVLA to have it as a camper ("Motor Caravan") - vehicles are tested 'as presented' - if it looks like a camper to the MOT tester, that's what it gets tested as.

Insurers are now wise to the Machiavellian ways of the DVLA and it doesn't seem to be an issue any more (they did used to like them being recorded as 'Motorcaravans' by the DVLA) - anecdotal stuff from another forum.

Bridge tolls are interesting - I looked into the Dartford & Mersey Flow ones a while back. Both had different rates for Motor Caravans, and used DVLA data to decide what a vehicle was via ANPR. However, the underlying legislation defined what constituted a "Motorcaravan" and *wasn't* dependent on DVLA body type or taxation class.

E.g. the Dart charge definition comes from a schedule to The Road User Charging And Workplace Parking Levy (Classes Of Motor Vehicles) (England) Regulations 2001

Motor caravan
Class L(a)
A motor vehicle which—

(a)has at least four wheels;
(b)has an unladen mass exceeding 400kg or an engine with a net power exceeding 15kw;
(c)is used for the carriage of passengers; and
(d)is constructed to include living accommodation containing at least the following equipment:
(i)seats and a table;
(ii)sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats;
(iii)cooking facilities; and
(iv)storage facilities,all of which equipment is rigidly fixed to the living compartment notwithstanding that the table may be designed to be easily removable.
Class L(b)
A motor vehicle as defined in Class L(a) which is drawing a trailer.

so what is the point?

Good question...!

The point *should be* that vehicles that fit the legal definition of a Motor Caravan are recorded as such so that the law can be appropriately enforced, however the DVLA have seen fit to make up their own set of rules which benefits nobody.

...And don't think that by complying with their (arbitrary) requirements that they will reclassify. (You are still, however, legally obliged to inform them that you have converted a van, even if they don't agree with it!)

Just glad I got our van reclassified before the DVLA embarked on their latest round of madness.

(Because:

you can feel more confident in saying “camper” when you’ve got a bit of paper that says it is one

🙂 )

I really fail to see how having a van parked on your drive can be seen as being inconsiderate

I've of the reasons we live where we do, was because the drive extends down the side of the house, so the campervan wasn't blocking ours or anyone elses view. After a week I went round to the neighbor to say hello. First comment from the lady of the house was to comment (in the politest way you can complain) that the van affected the light into a side window. It must be the top 18 inches of van that peeks above the 6ft fence and blocked the view of our roof! I offered to move the van a little further from the fence (for a few weeks) and thankfully never heard any more about it!

However, I was quite surprised that I didn't receive any comments or complaints from the other neighbours for the 4 weeks or so that I had my old campervan, my new unconverted van, and my works Luton van, all 3.5t, high tops, and 6 metres long, lined up down my drive 🙂

@alpin have you added the bold bit to my sentence to make a point or something? 😳 what an incredibly odd thing to do!

@Tom-B

I'm agreeing with you. Seriously... Screw those who get upset about any vehicle being legally parked, be that on your own driveway or on the road. Small mindedness and pathetic.

Last year two of our neighbours had their vans egged over several weeks by someone who was upset that their vans ( big Ducato and old school (1980s). Don't get it.

And if I lived on an estate that didn't allow vans.... well, I simply wouldn't live there in the first place.

At least vans, of any shape or form, are practical as opposed to your standard euro badge which seem to be nothing more than a fancy status symbol.