OK, they're fair points. But I'd still always insist. Because once bitten twice shy.
It's only last resort where I'd personally ask a guarantor to cover. As a reasonable human you'd do your best to work it out with your tenants and help them. At the end of the day people need a roof over their heads and you're a crappy human if you don't try and help.
Yep, there are bad landlords out there. There are bad tenants too. But there's a limit to financial exposure and ultimately you're personally responsible for your own circumstances.
I'd never skank out on a debt. But coming from a poor single (alcoholic) parent family in a crap part of blighty I'm no mug either. I've worked hard for what I've got (just like most people) but there's a limit to loss exposure I'm prepared to accept.
Couple of grand? Yeah, I can take it on the chin. Won't like it, but will (and have). But people are fools if they leave themselves wide open to the sort of losses caused by either negligence or malicious damage by a selfish idiot.
We're all living and working under the same system, trying to get by. We don't have to agree with it (and many of us vote against our own selfish interest) - but reality is what it is.
Suck it up I'm afraid.
Itll cost more in chasing.
I rent a house out I've been lucky with Tennants. If it got trashed I know the risks. Its crap but it is what it I'd.
But as an aside I'm fed up of the virtuous hand wringing that we get on here for renting a house out....
If it bothers you that much dont book a holiday cottage as that's screwed a local over, don't buy anything online etc...
@duncancallum your attitude seems spot on in that you recognise the risks and appreciate that you do have good tenants. It's pretty reasonable that folk don't have a lot of time for landlords who are happy to hang onto a property for the benefits they're getting (rent, convenience of not selling, capital appreciation) but piss and moan when the fairly obvious risks are realised.
It's the head on collision of allowing small landlords / investors to accrue these benefits, but also the fact that many small landlords can't take the losses (both emotionally and financially) when it goes a bit wrong. The fragmentation also helps dodgy tenants as they can hop from provider to provider basically without consequence. Crappy landlords can also find an endless stream of willing victims.
Ideologically, our tory overlords can't deal with this system failure.
100% agree. Being a landlord is a business and as such comes with risks as well as rewards. All this just covering the mortgage conveniently forgets its being paid down and let’s not forget about the property value increase benefit.
We’ve got a massive affordable housing issue in this country and landlords pricing out first time buyers is contributing to the problem. Complaining when owning 2 or more houses while others can’t get on the housing ladder isn’t a great look.
My son recently moved into a flat, shared. "Will you be my guarantor?" he asked. Sure. Oh, apparently there's a minimum earnings level and I didn't cut it - not helped by being self-employed. I had to ask one of my mates, who I've known for decades, to act as guarantor. *that* was an awkward conversation. Bizarrely I currently let out a property (my folks' old house) but that didn't help matters.
The rental system is heavily biased to the tenant in my experience, I think i'm a fair landlord and I try to take people at face value. I have several properties and whilst most of my tenants have been reasonable, I've had a few that have taken liberties and in turn i've taken a hit on. Im in it for the long game, if I make a few quid on the way great, but properties need maintaining and your tenants will not always be as careful or attentive as you might be in your own house, it's not 'easy money'.
I've also found the DPS are not exactly 'impartial' or quick to resolve matters, especially on 'wear & tear' issues
Add to that the current situation with long waiting lists for court action due to covid and you can be on a hiding to nowhere im afraid...
I’ve been a tenant, am a landlord. I can’t forsee circumstances where, if you’re trustworthy, you haven’t a single friend or family who’ll say “yeah, I’ll be your guarantor”.
- Young people leaving care?
- Young people with only younger friends, and at no fault estranged from family - not uncommon
- People relocating to UK?
- People whose family/friends who do not have sufficient assets or income to feel comfortable being a guarantor - even if the proposed tenant is incredibly trustworthy
@chevychase - I’ve rented, with good and bad landlords, now have a house with a mortgage with my wife.
I think you are being a bit blinkered with the “no single friend or family” expectation to cover it and just accept the liability like it’s nothing. Peoples circumstances change unexpectedly, health, relationships and employment, that is all part of real life.
I’m going to be 40 in a few years and have a job. I would 100% look somewhere else if a prospective landlord wanted a guarantor as standard practice. My parents are nearly 70, friends have their own families and commitments already.
I think most other people who are no longer students or in financial difficulties would do the same thing tbh...
Have to admit we only ask for a guarantor when a prospective tenant fails the background / finance checks we perform. Even then we may be flexible depending on the reasons for the failure.
We've been lucky with our tenants, we have a good number of properties - being the leeches of society that we are, we operate a business building flats/renovating houses for rental. My wife also runs a property management company looking after our properties and other rentals family members own.
As a landlord, the main thing to remember is you will be dealing with people. People can be absolute @rseholes. Some tenants will take no responsibility for the property. We get very frequent texts from some tenants ranging from a missing cat through to a brand new rural property that was dusty in the summer due to the neighbouring farmers field.
We've had two issues to deal with this weekend. None issues that the tenant should be dealing with themselves, one of them is the cat again, second one was a new tenant complaining that the shower water was too hot (probably my fault for not showing them they have to press a button on the dial to move the temperature dial). They wouldn't believe me that they needed to have the water below 40 degrees in the shower and wanted me to get someone to check the boiler.
We've only had one set of tenants make a mess of a house, they stopped paying rent and when they eventually left they emptied the house, all the plumbing was stripped out, interior doors taken, kitchen was smashed up, writing all over the walls. We used an agency at the time, pretty sure the house was sublet and there was a large number of people living there.
We actually didn't want to be landlords at first, our main business is in retail stores (large convenience stores), but when buying the stores quite a few of these come with flats within the freehold agreement. To buy the latest store (about 4 years ago) we had to purchase 85% of the buildings in a parade of shops, this came with 3 flats out of a row of 6. I'd rather not have the flats, but at the same time I'm responsible for the upkeep of the entire area and the shops are directly above the store. I have just bought the other 3 flats, but thats more to do with the fact I want to ensure the area remains clean and modern looking - the 3 new flats look tired, needing new windows, they are old single pane windows with knackered wooden sills. We have also just installed central heating in one flat and will do the other two over the next few months. They currently have a system blowing warm air out of a central flue....not seen one of those since I was growing up.
We are very fortunate in that we don't draw any income from our properties. We tend to average at 50% mortgage payments and 50% into maintenance. We have a rolling schedule of what jobs need doing and when. I honestly don't think I'd bother with a single property, unless you have the patience of an angel and can cope with being £10k out of pocket should the worst happen.
Dps favours tenants, I have had loads of tenants over the years and I know when someone takes the p.ss so it's just not fair the goodies subsidise the baddies.
A young couple took a flat, I did the inspection at 3 months, January, I entered the flat my glasses steamed up, I asked wtf you doing. Drying clothes with Windows shut....
So end of year loads of mould, black, damp. Inventory confirmed tenant liability with photos. I claimed repainting at 1k as it had been freshly painted when they took it on.
Dps awarded me 300 quid. Tenants c,aimed design issues with flat, like they didn't open the windows.
I don't actually take deposits now I just increase the rent 50 quid pcm. The good loyal tenants don't get charged it.
A young couple took a flat, I did the inspection at 3 months, January, I entered the flat my glasses steamed up, I asked wtf you doing. Drying clothes with Windows shut….
Forgive me for asking, but how should they have been drying clothes in January..? And was there something in the tenancy agreement specifically prohibiting drying clothes indoors in the middle of winter without opening a window? Surely if you're that specific, the onus would be on you to provide a dehumidifier, no..? 🤔
@Idiotdogbrain - you expect everyone to understand that you're going to cause mould issues if you dry clothes indoors without adequate ventilation.
If you're not up for opening a window, then get your own bloody dehumidifier. Private landlords aren't social services and there's an expectation (and legal requirement) that their tenants will take care of the property they're letting.
If there are structural issues, boilers, general maintenance not caused by negligence then that's all at the landlord's door. And rightly so.
But day-to-day being a tenant (of which I was one for many years - with both good and bad landlords) - your job is to do at least the minimum necessary to keep the place you're renting in decent nick.
Steaming up the place drying clothes on radiators with the windows shut isn't "taking care". It's breaking rule 1.
I quote, from a landlord law blog/site (my bold):
"Damp and mould growth is a hazard relevant to the HHSRS enforcement regime under Housing ACT 2004. Damp and associated mould arising from condensation is particularly hazardous because of the association with asthma and other respiratory diseases.
[b]Provision of clothes drying facilities is mentioned in the Govt guidance document associated with enforcement under HA2004 as something the landlord should do to reduce risk arising from this hazard.[/b]
Opening windows to ventilate during the cold season is not a good idea (except perhaps for a short time in a bathroom which has been steamed up) as it results in excessive heat loss; important with the ever upward cost of fuel and the constant urge for us be as economical as possible to avoid the most serious hazard of all (excess cold).
Condensation cause is complex of which occupier lifestyle is only 1 aspect. A residence could be at risk because of inadequate/uneconomic heating system, inadequate ventilation system (reliance on opening windows is not good) or inadequate thermal insulation. These are all the landlord’s responsibility.
[b]If the tenant is living normally (this would include drying own clothes indoors as opposed to taking in washing from others or say using paraffin heaters) then the landlord could be held to be responsible and subject to legal action from a Local Authority especially if there is no provision for drying clothes in Winter.[/b]"
I mean, I can go through the actual legislation if you like? I suspect the outcome will still be Suck It Up, Buttercup.
Id be so angry if I lost £300 because I dried clothes inside. I've allways done this? Never had damp. This is the buildings fault
The rental system is heavily biased to the tenant in my experience, I think i’m a fair landlord and I try to take people at face value.
Tenants have virtually no rights in the UK. No security. NO rights to stop price gouging, a life of total insecurity>
One of the major reforms the UK housing market needs is better tenants rights. Scotland has gone a short way down this road. Its utterly disgusting that millions of people live in insecure housing with no standards as to its condition
@idiotdogbrain, please do go into the legals. I think you'll find cut-pasting from internet forums do not a solid legal ground make.
If you're renting a totally *unfurnished* place then you're bringing your own white goods. This includes the washer/dryer. It's totally legal (and reasonable) to have a clause about drying clothes without creating mould in place. If you're providing your own white goods then the proviso is on you to bring your own dehumidifier. (What is reasonable changes if the landlord is providing furnishing of any kind - including white goods, which should also be PAT tested).
The standard reply on here is a confrontational one. One that pits landlord against tenant. And I get that - if either the landlord or tenant is a d1ck.
What is reasonable however is to treat the relationship as a two-way street (assuming not d1ck here). A discussion and agreement with the landlord over arrangements.
I'm loathe to provide white goods because different tenants want to bring their own fridges / washing machines etc - and if I provide them then I have to remove and store them on the off chance that another tenant may want them. In that case, I'd expect them to bring goods that allow them to dry their clothes properly - and to be sensible about things. Having said that, I hold a dehumidifier in my house for this very eventuality - with the best will in the world, what tenants say they'll do and what they actually do are very often totally different things. Getting them to actually *switch the dehumidifier on* (for the ones that haven't got the wherewithall to sort the basics of their own lives out) is something that I can't force.
If I come across as condescending towards tenants it's because I am. As a landlord I try to make things as trouble-free as possible for them. A full pack is produced detailing the minimum requirements they need to do to get their deposit back. It's not pitched like this - but one of them is "if you're dumb enough to act in a way that results in mould growing everywhere and you don't talk to your landlord about this until two whole walls need stripping back and replastering and the whole rest of the house needs disinfecting, repainting and recarpetting (spores) then YOU ARE A BAD TENANT AND YOU'LL LOSE YOUR MONEY".
Not a lot of things can't be fixed by a little bit of intelligent thought and communication. If you're drying clothes, there's damp everywhere and you're raging at your landlord (on a forum, not actually *to* him) that you need a dehumidifier and/or he should sort this problem out as it's "his responsibility" then you're negligent.
BTW - I've provided a dehumidifier to a tenant before that he didn't use.